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  • #2233891

    The best degree period! best IT degree period!

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    by xsubxwooferx ·

    I was wanting to start a discussion on the best college degree period both money wise and smartness. Same goes with IT since this is basically a IT website.

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    • #2512709

      The Education Problem

      by fluxit ·

      In reply to The best degree period! best IT degree period!

      After 27 years of working in industry, government, and the military I have learned that possessing an ‘honest’ education is virtually worthless on numerous points.

      1. Education is not an investment. There is no ROI in the financial accounting sense that colleges will teach on the money you spend on education. No employer will give you the necessary increases in pay to obtain a reasonable ROI that businesses themselves expect on investments.

      2. Often employers lack basic understandings of many of the degrees that are in the marketplace. For example, as part of my education I possess a 4 year degree in Operations Management. It is a professional management degree and the undergrad equivalent of an MBA. It includes numerous industry certifications too. However, employers insist that I get an MBA and acquire certifications that I have wrapped up in my degree already. I am forced to spend endless hours taking online courses that I took already years ago. It is quite annoying and frustrating.

      3. The hiring of employees has little to do with education. Employers are only interested in keeping labor cost down and finding someone who is more stupid than themselves. If the potential employer says that you are overqualified he really means he does not want to pay you the higher dollars and you most likely outshine him. If the potential employer tells you that you have great experience but lack the full qualifications what he really means is that he wants to pay you on the low end. In other words if you have to negotiate up – you came in too low. If you have to take a cut you came in to high and may even show up the boss.

      5. Current day education is not the same as years ago. For instance, I have considerable additional education in highly technical subjects and discipline of study. It is the closest one gets to being a physicists but is still called an engineer. That same degree program today is more akin to training as a engineering technologist than a physicist. It does not even cover the same level of topics but is still offered as a Bachelor’s degree.

      6. Institutional education is no longer about knowledge and independent thought but instead it is about indoctrinating young minds into deliberate thought processes. I find that education, even in the United States, is more like a madrassa than a challenge to the freest expansion of the mind.

      My advice to you is to study on your own and seek ‘honest’ knowledge. Epistemology is the study of truth and its origins. Seek to start a business of your own. Try to liberate yourself as much as possible from the shackles of human rules, regulations, and schemes to minimize or drain away your hard earned money.

      • #2512684

        What was Point 4. ??? and why did you delete it?…

        by older mycroft ·

        In reply to The Education Problem

        Or was it maybe as boring as the rest of your sad, worthlessly-educated, feeling-hard-done-by, diatribe of worthless drivel?

        • #2512677

          Did I walk in on act 3 again?

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to What was Point 4. ??? and why did you delete it?…

          It seems folks have an axe to grind with this fellow…

          what did he do?

        • #2512672

          Why nothing of course

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Did I walk in on act 3 again?

          🙂

        • #2610986

          Riiiiight.

          by locrian_lyric ·

          In reply to Why nothing of course

          I’m not falling for that one again….

        • #2512668

          Oohhh… It’s been a long time comin’…

          by older mycroft ·

          In reply to Did I walk in on act 3 again?

          I’ve been sitting quietly, nay – moderating my seething sarcastic tendencies, waiting for an unsuspecting, badly armed and inefficiently equipped individual to stray into the path of my ever-prescient scanning array.

          Then it gets handed to me ON A PLATE.

          This guy would probably be agreeable to renaming this forum as:

          A Resource for IT Whingers and Losers

          He certainly qualifies on both counts.

        • #2605346

          The Axe Falleth Upon Plates of Armor

          by fluxit ·

          In reply to Did I walk in on act 3 again?

          From time-to-time, I posed challenging and thought provoking post that questioned some peoples beliefs and challenge them to think. Those folks, of course, are set in their chaotic evil ways and set out to attack that which is righteous and honorable.

          I proudly wear my coat of armor and battle evil where ever it manifest itself. Demons flee in fear and dragons are slain with the mighty wielding of the sword. The end has come. A just wrath comes upon the enemy without mercy and without compassion. – Ezekiel 7 NIV.

        • #2610976

          Stick to the objective please

          by fredsmithy ·

          In reply to What was Point 4. ??? and why did you delete it?…

          Sad, worthless and drivel are all subjective.

          Your objective thoughts (if any) might be more helpful.

          I think the poster is somewhere between disallusioned and realistic, whereas you are coming across as childish. To me anyway.

        • #2610899

          Usually, when you happen upon a post like that one…

          by inkling ·

          In reply to Stick to the objective please

          there is a history behind it.

          If you go back and read the comments below it, you will find that this particular person had it coming.

          I completely understand and appreciate your points, but sometimes, some people just need to be told where to stuff it.

      • #2610905

        To address some of the specific points

        by drowningnotwaving ·

        In reply to The Education Problem

        1. Education worthless? Bzzt. Wrong. Targetted education (that is, I know what I want and I am getting the knowledge to do it) is [b]never[/b] worthless.

        I can assure you xsubx that many of us have been financially rewarded many times over for the costs of our degree.

        2. This statement is so generic that it lacks honesty and truth.

        It is easy and correct to say the exact opposite:

        Often employers understand fully what your degree has given you and put you into appropriate jobs and career paths.

        Reason? They (the employer’s staff) may have came from the same school and know what is capable of the graduates. They look for the same to build their own internal human asset base.

        It’s not all doom and gloom.

        Next point:

        [i]3. The hiring of employees has little to do with education. Employers are only interested in keeping labor cost down and finding someone who is more stupid than themselves.[/i]

        What drivel. What bull. This can only be a sad reflection upon the limited reality of the writer.

        In particular, right now in many IT markets it is a ‘sellers market’. Even graduates are haggling upwards over pay and conditions.

        The great majority of business want the right person with the right skills and will pay accordingly.

        In every single market there are always the bottom-feeders but they are by far the minority.

        [i]5. Current day education is not the same as years ago.[/i]

        That is a reflection of the school and their priorities. Many schools maintain excellent reputations amongst employers.

        Why not give three big employers in your area a call? Ask them what schools are considered to be excellent?

        That way, you’re getting it from the horse’s mouth, so to speak.

        [i]6. Institutional education is no longer about knowledge and independent thought but instead it is about indoctrinating young minds into deliberate thought processes.[/i]

        A whole lot of this post looks and feels like an “it was better in the olden days” rave.

        I am sure that some schools are like this, and I am sure that some schools are not.

        Again, ask the potential employers what they think.

        Studying on your own?

        Well, this is always an option.

        Personally, I have found through my experience that to work with experts and peers, and to learn from them in a cool environment, will accelerate the process and thus the acheivement of results. I’d much prefer to think that my doctor learnt in a disciplined and planned environment rather than was self-taught.

        I do agree with the goal of always seeking to start a business of your own, but that is not absolutely necessary nor is self-employment the key measure of acheivement or success for all people.

        I still say, xsubx, fark off and buy a bus ticket to the world.

        You’ll find your ability to answer a lot of these questions on your own, in two or three years, will be infinitely better than your ability to assimilate the advice of a bunch of other people right now.

        And FluxIT? Time for another anti-depressant pill buddy.

        • #2610853

          Making The Point?

          by fluxit ·

          In reply to To address some of the specific points

          You are exactly correct that often employers understand fully what your degree has given or ‘how it has limited you’. All some people want in life is a job to pay the bills and keep the yapping wife quiet about money. Then by all means call the employers and ask them what schools indoctrinate your minds into some corporate tunnel vision and keep your independent thoughts suppressed. Afterall, you are nothing but another brick in the wall. Wear your IBM suit or your blue jeans then march off to work everyday.

          This is not a matter of the old days. It is a matter of the future instead. History is good in order to understand the future.

          I believe in this world it is about how we live our lives. Humans are given talents and abilities that must be brought out and advanced. We must make something more of ourselves. Work is certainly one component of that. However, males are designed to be wild at heart. Marching to a drumbeat is not very wild.

        • #2610844

          Hey FluxIT ! – You just stick to what you are good at ! . . .

          by older mycroft ·

          In reply to Making The Point?

          Writing your biography by using a parody of a Joe Walsh song.

          Oh, and by the way, if your education, employment history, work experiences and general feeling of being under-valued are all so vehemently strong — why base your biography on a song entitled “[b]Life’s Been Good To Me So Far[/b]”???

          Not only are you a whinger, you are also misguided, misplaced, and most definitely [b]Two-Faced[/b].

        • #2610820

          Positive Aspect to Learning

          by fluxit ·

          In reply to Hey FluxIT ! – You just stick to what you are good at ! . . .

          One of the positive aspects to educating oneself is ensuring that you do not look stupid. I was using language and analogies from Pink Floyd’s ‘The Wall’ album. Roger Waters wrote the song.

          “Not only are you a whinger, you are also misguided, misplaced, and most definitely Two-Faced.” Projection of fault is also something the uneducated do. One will most often observe little children behaving in this manner.

      • #2605243

        So very very wrong

        by jmgarvin ·

        In reply to The Education Problem

        “1. Education is not an investment.”

        Sure it is and the ROI on education is measurable. However, things become fuzzy once you have experience.

        Oh and at lot of education is quite useful and can actually mean you know more than the guy without on.

        I point you to: http://www.dol.gov to see if education has any impact on earnings.

        “2. Often employers lack basic understandings of many of the degrees that are in the marketplace.”

        Oh please. This is 100% incorrect. Maybe mom and pop don’t have any idea what your degree in underwater basketweaving means, but I promise you that any Fortune 1000 company knows exactly what it means.

        “3. The hiring of employees has little to do with education.”

        Wrong, no, and wrong. Aside from the keeping labor costs down comment (100% incorrect), hiring an employee that can actually manage X is far cheaper than an employee who’s pay is half that but cannot manage X and costs the company millions because of it.

        “5. Current day education is not the same as years ago.”

        Wrong. Current day education is just as robust.

        “6. Institutional education is no longer about knowledge and independent thought but instead it is about indoctrinating young minds into deliberate thought processes.”

        Wrong again. Which is why many schools have senior projects for technical degrees.

      • #2476932

        FluxIT has some valid points…

        by jason_whiteaker ·

        In reply to The Education Problem

        Point 1 – Education without purpose is somewhat of a waste. Does a liberal arts degree really matter in the technology field? It says I know how to study (perhaps) and see a project through (perhaps). It says nothing of my ability to learn and/or solve problems. It doesn’t speak to my personal character. It doesn’t speak to my ethics.

        Point 2 – Some companies get it, some don’t. I had an experience where I was knocked out of a candidacy because the HR person didn’t understand that a CCNP cert is indeed a higher-level cert than the CCNA. Because they didn’t see ?CCNA?, they figured I wasn’t ?qualified?. Waay too many examples to cite here. 🙂

        Point 3 – Agree…for the most part. It seems that most companies that place a premium on education above all else are probably not places that people like FluxIT (and me 🙂 would do well in anyway. Those companies tend to be very stuffy and rigid; they’re usually about showmanship and trying to impress their client?le. It also demonstrates their inability to see the person as a whole instead of just the sheepskin. Then again, that’s the game. Can’t get upset if that’s their choice. If one chooses not to have the sheepskin, then be prepared to be left behind in some of those companies’ hiring decisions.

        Point 4 (5) – No, it’s not. My days at Purdue we’re pretty worthless as they relate to my career. I’ll never forget what one professor stated in class – ?…we don’t teach you specific skills that will be useful far into the future, we teach you how to learn and how to think.? Really? And I paid THOUSANDS for this revelation…hehe. The part about teaching me how to “think” kinda stood out to me. I remember asking myself why am I here, then? I don’t need Purdue University telling me how to approach life. I’m here to learn Electrical Engineering, not Purdue’s philosophies on being human. To be fair, there were no IT degrees at the time. That’s not the case now, so I’m betting things would be more targeted and appropriate. Then again, higher-ed is full of this elitist mentality, so I’m betting their attitude and approach really isn’t any different today.

        Point 6 – Agree, completely! Anyone who thinks that the higher-ed system is about independent thought hasn’t been on a college campus lately. Try asking tough questions that challenge a prof’s position, especially as it relates to the humanities. If you’re not singled-out as a troublemaker, you’ll be outright labeled ?intolerant? or given some other derogatory title.

        Let’s face it, employers want a complete package ? degree, certification, and experience ? from their IT candidates. They also want it at the best price. Nothing wrong with this, as it’s a reasonable goal. However, too many companies are becoming downright abusive in their hunt for talent. Anyone who debates this is ignoring the evidence right in front of them. You can’t miss the ?…we want a senior network/systems/storage/convergence engineer with 10+ years of experience and a CCIE, but we’ll pay you $50K!? advertisements. If they can’t find a sucker to do it, the work is outsourced/offshored, and the company bemoans that there are no quality domestic labor resources. Those companies should be avoided like the plague, as there are still good companies out there.

        In closing, it sounds like many of you are being hard on FluxIT because he’s challenging your feelings and attitude towards higher-ed. You can see the ?…by golly I worked for my degree and so should everyone else? attitude. It doesn’t change the fact that things HAVE changed from the 90’s in the IT world. You know what? Not all change is good! There’s nothing wrong with pointing out the problems and realities of today vs. historical fact. I lived through many of the days FluxIT refers to, and he’s right about a great many things. I only hope that IT doesn’t suffer any more than it has done thus far by folks who embrace all change because they bought into the notion (that is taught vehemently in higher-ed) that change should never be challenged, but embraced with an almost blind faith.

        • #2477778

          Nup – you’ve either had bad experiences

          by drowningnotwaving ·

          In reply to FluxIT has some valid points…

          … or, like some others, maybe you’re just not good enough.

          Too many people have, through their own experience, had opposite actions/reactions than those you adhere to, if indeed you support FluxIT’s stance.

          Every single point he raised is wrong ON THE PROVISO that a) you’re good, b) you have an inkling of foresight, and c) you take control of your own career / destiny / future (whatever you wish to name it).

          Of course, if a person is of average calibre and is easily lead, then many of his outcomes could and would come true.

          Whilst it is the human condition to find other excuses for unsatisfactory actions that occur to us, FluxIT misses the point: his outcomes have actually been determined by himself. They are not the result of some supposedly slipshod education system or dumb / greedy employers.

        • #2477436

          Control of life? Wow!

          by jason_whiteaker ·

          In reply to Nup – you’ve either had bad experiences

          So you’re of the opinion that life is this nice little entity that as long as you play by the rules, “take charge”, and do the “right” things, then all will be well? Sorry, but that’s just not reality.

          You’ve heard the saying, “…We’re a victim of our generation.” I can take pragmatic steps to guide my steps in life, but that doesn’t change how others react, nor can I control other people and their actions. Should one take responsibility for oneself? Absolutely! In the context of a career, my point is that you can do all of the right things and it often won’t matter due to change that is occuring. Again, not all change is good. Just because you’re good (a subjective determination, I might add) and have the foresight to plan ahead, that is no guarantee of success. You make it seem that one’s destiny is simply a matter just doing the right things. Life doesn’t fit into your nice little box.

          Let me give you a practical, non-IT example. Here in the US, we have the wonderful concept of no-fault divorce. The law says that if I don’t like the way you combed your hair this morning, I can divorce you. Not only that, I can ruin you financially, break up the family, or whatever. How, pray tell, does an individual control that? How can I know a spouse may or may not do that someday, perhaps years into the future? You can’t! How do you deal with a capricious situation like that in personal matters or a career? The fact is, those factors changed with or without your input.

          I think this is what FluxIT is speaking to. It used to be that if you “did the right things”, success was very likely, especially in the IT world. His point and mine is that degrees, certs, and experience don’t always matter at the end of the day when things have changed so radically as they have in recent years. Are we at the whim of chance, not really, but nor can having all of the “right” credentials matter either. They are tools and part of your bag of tricks. They simply increase your chances of success, but aren’t the solution.

          You sound quite young and prideful. You seem to be saying that your here-to-now positive life experience is that because you’re a.) so good and of high caliber, and b.) not easily led and a take-charge of life kind of guy. I wonder if you’ve had life pull the rug out from under you despite your best efforts.

          You should be very careful about attributing a seemingly simplistic view of life to others, and judging their character, abilities, or experience. I see that you’re in sales, so I guess I can understand your borderline arrogant attitude towards someone who you haven’t had the chance to get to know. Do you have a family that you’re the sole support for? Have you had someone lie about you and it cost you a job or a marriage? If so, I can’t understand your dogmatic adherence to feeling like your input to life controls things so neatly. If not (and I pray you never do) maybe you need to be humbled a bit.

          The best a person can do is plan for the rainy days of life. But when it’s all said and done, bad things happen to people whether they deserve it or not. We also have a responsibility to call a spade a spade – if something’s going downhill in an area that is close to us (our careers), then stating fact and attempting to cope with it isn’t always a reflection on someone’s lack of intelligence or character. What’s going on in the IT industry isn’t all good. Degrees are a tool, along with certs and experience. It doesn’t change the fact that we need to recognize reality, and address the issues we see, including the industry itself, our educational institutions, and our social structure as a whole.

        • #2477129

          it’s a good old laugh, eh?

          by drowningnotwaving ·

          In reply to Control of life? Wow!

          It’s an interesting reflection of such internet conversations that (and don’t get me wrong – I am as much guilty/participant in such errors as anyone else):

          a) People make statements about lots of things. When such statements or positions are questioned, amongst the responses is often “How can you judge me without knowing me for xx years?”.

          I can’t. I don’t. I have every right to judge the statement on its merits. I also have every right to question statements according to my bias and opinion. As long as I can back it up with some semblance of fact (again, usually a subjective thing). That’s the nature of the process.

          b) But the really funny thing about it is this. People often make that statement just before they then go on to make a similar amount of judgements about the other person/s !!

          It’s a laugh, isn’t it?

          Look Jason whatever works for you. I try not to follow a lot of rules per se. I try to make the rules about which I follow. It enables me to judge where I should be, where I am aiming, blah blah blah.

          Do bad things happen to good people? Horridly yes. Have they happened to me – hell yes but that’s my subjectivity to think I’m good!

          To review one simple sentence that, to me and imho, summarises your post:

          [i][b]The best a person can do is plan for the rainy days of life.[/i][/b]

          Again, imho, that is an extremely and extraordinarily lazy / underdone / “i’m a victim” type of approach. It follows the “we’re victims of our generation” approach.

          And that underlines the sentiments included in FluxIT’s post: Don’t waste your time at school. Nothing will work. It’s not worth it. No-one values the true “me”. The IT industry is farking things up and making my life difficult. Stupid HR people don’t understand my experience and therefore they judge me in their limited view of the world.

          IMHO his post was extremely negative and, as I said, to many of us a clearly and demonstrably incorrect set of statements. To put them forward to someone asking advice about their future was asking for rebuke. But hey, that’s just me!

          PS: For very obvious reasons, using a divorce scenario as an example invites no specific response.

        • #2478914

          I guess I’m missing something?

          by jason_whiteaker ·

          In reply to it’s a good old laugh, eh?

          I don’t understand what you mean by the idea that preparing for difficulty, or the idea that things change and not always for the better, is somehow lazy or defeatist? I’m having a hard time grasping why you militate against that concept. My thesis phrase would have to be what I’ve tried to convey – Education, good. Certs, good. Experience, good. Life, uncertain. Control, illusion. Change, sometimes good, sometimes bad. One’s responsibilty for his/her actions, a requirement to do what is within their sphere of control/influence. How is this lazy or defeatist?

          As for the divorce scenario, I couldn’t think of a better illustration of the illusion of control in life. 🙂

    • #2512705

      School of hard knocks.

      by locrian_lyric ·

      In reply to The best degree period! best IT degree period!

      I went to what was at the time considered to be the best.

      They sold to a code-monkey factory and now the schools reputation is squat.

      The school of hard knocks is still the best teacher.

    • #2610924

      If you are worried about that

      by tony hopkinson ·

      In reply to The best degree period! best IT degree period!

      go on the name of the establishment, content is almost irrelevant.

      A degree will not make you smart if you weren’t already.

      Any degree can be valuable if you learn to implement the skills and knowledge made available. If you can’t / don’t do that it’s a worthless piece of paper except to those who erroneously assume because you got it you can and have.

      Learn and do, do and learn, the certificate at the end of it, merely gives to the chance to prove that you have and can.

      On a more serious note, buy the best education you can afford. Which is the best that you can put to use, not necessarily the best it’s possible to get.

      • #2610843

        Knowledge is not Economically Rationed

        by fluxit ·

        In reply to If you are worried about that

        Acquisition of knowledge is not based on ability to spend money. That suggests that knowledge is class dependent and conjures up notions of racism and Marxist\socialist ideologies of the forgotten people.

        Knowledge is readily available but one must be able to discern the truth – epistemology. There is far too much junk science and strange ideas that masquerade as truths. A good cup of coffee with a book from Barnes and Noble or Books A Million and you can begin to learn about interesting things. You do not even have to buy it. You just need to know how to learn and discern things. The library has many good books too but often they are very outdated. Newer books are generally not found in public libraries until the publishers make their money.

        The Internet is not a good source for learning. Google is not a fully objective despite their claims. Websites like Wikipedia are often more wrong than right. The term ‘wiki’ means a collaborative effort or a democratization of information development or content without or with limited restrictions. This means competitive political, religious, philosophical ideologies creep into the ‘knowledge’ and a dominant belief emerges despite its virtue.

        • #2610825

          Leave school now

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Knowledge is not Economically Rationed

          It’s not too late for you to learn something.

          Of course knowledge is class dependant, ingorance is tool for control.

          If you want to control those not of your race, keep them ignorant.

          If you want to control those who don’t share your ideology, keep them ignorant.

          If you want to control those who don’t share your religion, keep them ignorant.

          If you want to keep control of those people of the correct colour, with the ‘right’ idea, make sure they are kept ignorant about unfavourable ones. Don’t educate, indoctrinate.

          All that education and you know f’all.
          All educational material is biased, fully objective is a myth promulgated by manipulators who want to keep us ignorant of contending ponits of view.

          Anyone who claims their material is fully objective is a liar and or a fool.

          Subwoof, this is a perfect illustration of educated != smart.

        • #2610817

          U R Agreeing With Me

          by fluxit ·

          In reply to Leave school now

          Those who want to control thoughts attempt control the education system. In order to educate oneself, you need to develop the skill of learning and discerning. Knowledge is available from many ways – not just in schools. Einstein was assessed to be untrainable. The US Public schools are designed for the lowest common denominator and do nothing for those who accel in understanding. In fact, recently there was a young boy who had such an accelerated learning rate that every school rejected him until a school in Jacksonville took him on. It took something like 10 teachers just to keep up with him. Most teachers complain that there classes are too large and want fewer students. This kid took on 10 teachers!

        • #2610759

          Well yes and no

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to U R Agreeing With Me

          Albert for instance was so biased when general relativity showed the universe could not be static, he put a fiddle factor in there to make it so (cosmological contsant).

          The ONLY ‘reasoning’ behind doing it was his bias….

          You are saying Knowledge is not rationed economically, I am saying it is. Definitely and without a doubt.

          Short of reinventing everything from Ug and the orangle flickery thing to Witten’s M-Theory, no way is it free. Somebody paid for it.

          In terms of a degree not being the only way to learn, then I have no doubt on that score after all, I haven’t got one.

          Whether you teach yourself, or you are taught by others, no one can learn for you.

          You can’t stand up here and tell the guy not to get a degree though, another economic fact is he needs one, or he won’t even get an interview.

        • #2610712

          Not Economics…

          by fluxit ·

          In reply to Well yes and no

          Knowledge and wisdom are bought with experience and imagination. Einstien arrived at his theory of relativity after a wild image streaming event in his minds eye not in some class room. LDV made his discoveries and inventions based on his 7 principles not by purchasing knowledge from someone.

          Social standing is economically rationed based on whether one goes to a community college or Yale to learn the same thing.

          Ever wonder why universities teach math for engineers, business, medical, and liberal arts folks when the mathematics is the same for all and at the same price? Each discipline candidate purchases access to not knowledge but the difficulty level they desire. As a result there is a social acceptance of that as well. Liberal arts folks are often viewed as those who grazed through college with minimal effort. Engineers on the other hand are often thought of as having the most difficult training.

          I am not telling him not to get a degree. I am sharing with him experience. I have considerable education and had situations over the years where people with no education were paid the same as me more times than not. I got certified in Novell and MS but never got the requisite pay increases. In fact, employers refused to pay for that certification let alone increase my pay.

          My experiences with colleges is that they teach to the lowest denominator and charge costly fees. On some occassions when they wanted to get rid of people they just made the subject matter unnecessarily difficult. GPA is a joke and no reflection on ones abilities. In fact, it is more detrimental than helpful.

        • #2610662

          Are you one of those world owes me a living types ?

          by tony hopkinson ·

          In reply to Not Economics…

          That’s how you are coming across.

          Why should you employer pay for your cert.
          Of what use to them is the education you’ve amassed, that there is no scope to apply.

          If I was an out of work brain surgeon and took a job sweeping up, should I get paid more than poor new immigrant along side me?

          Either you’re worth is not being recognised, or you have no recognisable worth.
          Choose to get recognition, or to become worth more. Your choice, make it.

          Don’t sit on your ass waiting for someone to pat you on the head and give you a biscuit.
          Make your own biscuit, or chew them a new one. ffs.

        • #2610736

          “those who accel in understanding” . . .?

          by older mycroft ·

          In reply to U R Agreeing With Me

          Surely you mean [b]EXCEL[/b]?

          ie

          accel.,
          accelerando.

          ie

          ac?cel?er?an?do (ak sel?? ran?d$, -r?n?-; It. ?t che?le R?n?d?), adv., adj. Music.
          gradually increasing in speed.
          [1835?45; < It < L accelerandus Unless you used the expression (sic) in the musical sense, but ofcourse you wouldn't since you can't tell the difference between Roger Waters and Joe Jackson!

        • #2610706

          U Again!

          by fluxit ·

          In reply to “those who accel in understanding” . . .?

          Roger Waters is of Pink Floyd and wrote another brick in the Wall who I was using. Joe Jackson, another musician, had nothing to do with the analogy I was using. You erroneously brought him into the discussion.

          I meant accel as in accelerated, not excel as in spreadsheets or in your mind music sheets.

    • #2610752

      Preparation + Application = Emasculation . . .

      by older mycroft ·

      In reply to The best degree period! best IT degree period!

      FluxIT posted:
      [i]”One of the positive aspects to educating oneself is ensuring that you do not look stupid. I was using language and analogies from Pink Floyd’s ‘The Wall’ album. Roger Waters wrote the song.[/i]

      Pink Floyd’s [b]”The Wall”[/b] huh? …well, let’s look for it:

      1 In the Flesh?
      2 The Thin Ice
      3 Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 1
      4 The Happiest Days of Our Lives
      5 Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 2
      6 Mother
      7 Goodbye Blue Sky
      8 Empty Spaces
      9 Young Lust
      10 One of My Turns
      11 Don’t Leave Me Now
      12 Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 3
      13 Goodbye Cruel World
      14 Hey You
      15 Is There Anybody Out There?
      16 Nobody Home
      17 Vera
      18 Bring the Boys Back Home
      19 Comfortably Numb
      20 The Show Must Go On
      21 In the Flesh
      22 Run Like Hell
      23 Waiting For the Worms
      24 Stop
      25 The Trial
      26 Outside the Wall

      [b]Hey, it’s not there![/b]

      Tell you what, FluxIT old mate, let’s check out [b]”But Seriously Folks”[/b]

      http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=3376
      [b]”Life’s Been Good”[/b] is a 1978 single by [b]Joe Walsh[/b], which first appeared on his album [b]But Seriously Folks[/b]. In it, he satirically reflects on the rockstar lifestyle (“My Maserati does 185 / I lost my license, now I don’t drive”). Antics of all rockers of the era are reflected, such as the nod to Keith Moon and others: “I live in hotels/Tear out the walls.” The 1979 Rolling Stone Record Guide called it “riotous”, and “[maybe] the most important statement on rock stardom anyone has made in the late Seventies.”

      “Life’s Been Good” has a notable style: a mid-tempo reggae like groove marked by bedrock guitar riffs, synthesizers, a Jew’s Harp, and a confused delivery. Walsh’s ARP Odyssey riff accompanies the guitar solo in the middle of the song. The outro-solo is longer than most radio stations allow. Bill Szymczyk and Jody Boyer perform the backing vocals. This song uses a call-and-response pattern.

      Call: Joe Walsh: “Lucky I’m sane after all I’ve been through”
      Response: Bill Szymczyk: “Everybody say, ‘I’m cool'”
      Response: Jody Boyer: “He’s cool”

      Made after Walsh had joined the Eagles, “Life’s Been Good” was incorporated into that group’s concert repertoire, appearing in shows at the time as well as in subsequent reunion tours. It remains a staple of classic rock radio playlists.

      [i]YOUR BIOGRAPHY
      Professional Student. I have a dorm room, forget the price; Ain’t never been there, they tell me it’s nice; I live in class rooms, got diplomas on the wall; I have taxpayers finance it all; Some say I’m crazy but I have a good time; I’m just looking for clues at the scene of the crime; Campus life’s been good to me so far…[/i]

      LIFE’S BEEN GOOD
      Joe Walsh

      [i]I have a mansion but forget the price
      Ain’t never been there, they tell me its nice
      I live in hotels, tear out the walls
      I have accountants pay for it all

      They say I’m crazy but I have a have a good time
      I’m just looking for clues at the scene of the crime
      Life’s been good to me so far…[/i]

      My Maseratti does one-eighty-five
      I lost my license, now I dont drive
      I have a limo, ride in the back
      I lock the doors in case I’m attacked

      I’m making records, my fans they can’t wait
      They write me letters, tell me I’m great
      So I got me an office, gold records on the wall
      Just leave a message, maybe I’ll call

      Lucky I’m sane after all I’ve been through
      I cant complain but sometimes I still do
      Life’s been good to me so far

      I go to parties sometimes until four
      It’s hard to leave when you can’t find the door
      It’s tough to handle this fortune and fame
      Everybody’s so different, I haven’t changed

      They say I’m lazy but it takes all my time
      I keep on goin’ guess I’ll never know why

      Now, what was that you said at the start? Oh yeah: [i]”One of the positive aspects to educating oneself is [b]ensuring that you do not look stupid.”*[/b][/i]

      As for me, I’ll stick with my secondary, further, university, and post-graduate levels of education.

      Sources:
      http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=3376
      http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/lifesbee.htm

      • #2610700

        OBVIOUSLY…

        by fluxit ·

        In reply to Preparation + Application = Emasculation . . .

        You understand that I have a substantial education and did not pay a dime for it. There are other ways to get educated.

        I was not using that in my posting. I was using Pink Floyd’s album ‘The Wall’ which I have a copy of for my analogy.

        • #2610686

          You have not realised that I am Scottish, sadly.

          by older mycroft ·

          In reply to OBVIOUSLY…

          As a Scot, I was able to reach post-graduate level without the need to, as you so quaintly put it, ‘pay a dime’ either. The Scottish Education System, even university level, is free.

          So, in that respect, we are similar. Unfortunately you have seen fit to boast about it, whereas I am simply proud of mine.

          In 1979, I was an Account Executive working in Crawley, W.Sussex, England for a company called Garrod & Lofthouse – check it out in the printer’s imprint on the back of your ‘Wall’ album cover. The initial print run was 275,000 but before the print run had completed, the run was extended to 2,500,000 such was the enormity of ‘advance sales’.

          As an Account Executive, in charge of EMI, Warner-Elektra-Atlantic (WEA), Island Records productions I was tasked with allowing Mr Roger Waters onto the shop floor to watch his album covers being printed and assembled. It is indeed odd that when we were enjoying a delicious lunch at the Gatwick Manor Hotel, he never saw fit to mention his song “Life’s Been Good…”.

          Normally I would not bother with your infantile posts but when I personally know that you are incorrect, I feel it my duty that you be brought to task on it.

          Judging from your not inconsiderable rantings on TR, I am sure that Roger Waters would not give you the time of day.

          Good-day to you Sir!

        • #2605355

          Well!

          by fluxit ·

          In reply to You have not realised that I am Scottish, sadly.

          To do are we!

          I remarked that Roger Water wrote “Another Brick In The Wall” Dude!

          I never remarked that Roger Water’s wrote ‘Life’s Been Good’ Dude!

          You brought Joe Jackson into this when I was talking about Roger Water’s song “Another Brick In the Wall”!

          “Life’s Been Good” was done by Joe Walsh dude!

        • #2605339

          Please help me here…

          by jmgarvin ·

          In reply to Well!

          Where did you reference “Another Brick In The Wall” before this thread in this discussion?

        • #2605268

          FluxIT didn’t, and I was referring to his Biography page.

          by older mycroft ·

          In reply to Please help me here…

          A fact that FluxIT has sadly missed.

          He’s obviously taken ‘biography’ to mean his previous posts!

          His personal page features a ripped off song lyric as his biography which he is now insisting he didn’t plagiarise and parody!

          The fact that I know Roger Waters is neither here nor there – it’s actually in Crawley, W.Sussex, England.

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