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The biggest threat to individual freedom

By maxwell edison ·
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In another thread I suggested that the biggest threat to individual freedom in the United States is the U.S. tax code and the myriad of U.S. social programs. After thinking about it for a few minutes, I sadly realized how true that really is. And what's really sad about it is twofold. One is that people, as a whole, don't realize it. And the second is that people are asking for (voting for) more of it.

The camel is indeed in bed with us. Or we are only but frogs in a pot of cold......make that warm water. (Ask and I'll explain - unless someone knows, and wants to reveal the meaning.)

More to come.......

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And One More Thing

by olprof67 In reply to Sociopathic Republicans

"Those who completely dismiss socialist values"

simply represent a higher level of moral evolution.

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Free Market

by TheChas In reply to Entitlements

While it sounds good, I respectfully disagree with your premise.

Show me a government service that has been privatized and has ended up costing the consumer less.

Education: No, private companies are leaving the K-12 education system. They cannot both educate children and make a profit.
Look closely at the financial model of faith based education and services before you point them out as a model.
They exist off of low wages, volunteers, and contributions from the fold.
Education in particular has 2 advantages that our public schools do not:
Involved parents who value an education.
The ability to expel any student they desire.

Prisons: Again, private companies are finding out they they cannot lower the cost enough in order to make a profit and perform the required task.

It always costs the general community when a government service is privatized.
In order for the private company to make the desired profit, they either have to pay significantly lower wages, or reduce the quality and quantity of service provided.

Chas

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NeoCons Want a Free Ride

re:
the biggest threat to individual freedom in the United States is the U.S. tax
----- ----- ----- ----- -----

It pays for the firefighters, and police, and safe streets. It pays for cleaning the water we drink and the air we breathe.

It pays for the prisons that lock up criminals, and the schools that unlock minds. It pays for so many wonderful things.

But you say it's a threat to individual freedom - without cause. Just a blanket statement.

You voted FOR the biggest expansion of government in the history of the nation. Did you think you were gonna get a free ride?

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None of those things

by maxwell edison In reply to NeoCons Want a Free Ride

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None of the things you mentioned are "social programs".

And if I voted for, as you say, the biggest expansion of government in the history of the nation", then my vote kept that expansion from being even BIGGER under Democrat control.

Republicans - Tax and spend

Democrats - Tax more and spend more

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Bucky

by ProtiusX In reply to None of those things

You had to know he would post on this. It is his compulsion that drives him like a moth to the flame. Sense he didn?t include his other buzz words I thought I?d list them here for you.

100,000 dead
NEO-CON
Militant Christian
Nazi Republican guard
FAIRIE GOD PARENTS! (wait that was from my kids cartoon again)

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Be fair Protius. :-)

by Oz_Media In reply to Bucky

He DID SO mention NEO-CONS.

Right in the title

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Blessings of Liberty

by Bucky Kaufman (MCSD) In reply to None of those things

re:
None of the things you mentioned are "social programs".
---- ---- ---- ----

Nobody said they are. You're tilting at windmills, Quixote - taking offense where none is offered, fighting fights without opposition.

Still, you say taxes are freedom-killers and you're wrong - because they pay for the Blessings of Liberty.

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Can you please enlighten me?

by jardinier In reply to None of those things

Republicans - Tax and spend

Democrats - Tax more and spend more

Do you really believe that the financial agenda of the two major parties can be expressed as simply as that?

And you may like to comment on the following, which I lifted from a discussion posted on November 12 by the peer "antipodes" which did not receive a single comment.

"The following figures came from a quick Google search. They may not be 100 per cent accurate, but I think the point made is clear enough.

WASHINGTON September 27, 2000 -- President Clinton announced Wednesday that the federal budget surplus for fiscal year 2000 amounted to at least $230 billion, making it the largest in U.S. history and topping last year's record surplus of $122.7 billion.

WASHINGTON January 27, 2004 ? The federal budget deficit will reach $477 billion this year, the biggest ever in dollar terms, the Congressional Budget Office said Monday.
The deficit hit $375 billion in 2003, the highest in dollar terms ever. The previous record was $290 billion in 1992.

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Enlightenment Indeed

by maxwell edison In reply to Can you please enlighten ...

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No Julian, I don't believe that the financial agenda of the two major parties can be expressed as simply as that. It was just a "sound-bite" comment, if you will, expressing my opinion that neither major party is really the party of fiscal responsibility, that both major parties make spending promises for the purpose of political expediency, but that the Democrat party, on balance, will tax and spend more if left to their own devices and desires - if for no other reason than their single policy of supporting nationalized health care. So no, I don't believe the financial agenda of either major party - or the party-neutral federal government as a whole - can be expressed in any simple terms. There's nothing "simple" about it.

To the contrary, it's a bookkeeping shell-game; it's a "how can we fool them today"; and the financial management - or mismanagement, I should say - policies of our party-neutral federal government would never stand up to the very scrutiny that we impose upon and expect of our corporate leaders. Enron, for example, has taken on a meaning of it's own. At on time when someone said the single word "Enron", it was no more than the name of a corporation. But today the single word "Enron" conjures up images of financial mismanagement run amok - even to criminal levels. Well, if the Enron Corporation was so bad, and it was indeed very bad, then our party-neutral federal government is absolutely dismal. Our federal fiscal policies would make the Enron debacle look like a bounced check. And I believe it's time we hold our party-neutral federal government to the same standards we expect of our corporations.

But neither party will step up to the plate and tell it like it really is, lest they not get the precious vote of the ignorant and self-centered voter who only asks, what's in it for me. In the quest for that precious vote, politicians - of both parties - make promises that could be boiled down to taking the money from the person who earned it, only to give it to the person who did not - in exchange for a vote, of course. If the Republican party ever reverted back to the fiscal conservative values of Barry Goldwater, when the final votes were tallied they'd be slaughtered like sheep. So they've capitulated to the status quo, they've learned to play the game, and they have become the very thing they used to abhor - and what I like to call baby-Democrats. (But the Democrats have really "grown up".) Thus my "sound-bite" comment that the Republicans are the tax and spend party, but the Democrats are the party of tax even more and spend even more.

We are headed for a financial train-wreck. But the voters, in their never-ending quest to line their own pockets with other peoples' dollars, will do nothing to avoid it. Sure, some people don't support such out-of-control spending for their own financial gain, but they've succumbed to the notion that they are supporting the "less fortunate", or they believe that equality of opportunity really means equality of outcome. But they've only sped up the impending disaster. And perpetuated by the constant "sob stories" that they are inundated with by our illustrious media outlets, they're duped into voting for more and more spending and more and more fiscal irresponsibility.

Thomas Jefferson is often credited for having said, "That government is best which governs least.", and no truer words have ever been spoken. But unfortunately, we have not heeded his warnings. And people who totally blame Democrats or who totally blame Republicans are only fooling themselves. And ultimately, they have only themselves to blame.

On the particulars of your budget surplus/deficit comments, I'll put my reply in another message.

to be continued.....

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"We are headed for a financial train-wreck"

by jardinier In reply to Enlightenment Indeed

Of course this is a worry to everyone. If America goes down the tube financially, it would affect other countries as well, I presume, just like the great depression on 1929.

Do you think the current situation is potentially as serious?

By the way: Australia has it's share of corporate criminals.

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