General discussion


The Next Step Towards Free Internet and True Open Source

By winthrop.polk ·
This discussion started as a question here:
<a rel="nofollow" href="
" target="_blank">
Okay, so the new mission of this discussion is to set up a plan to provide practically free internet to the world or to, at a minimum, force ISPs to lower there price to a much lower level which will still be profitable for them (figure $7/month for high speed).
I think we, as a community of technical experts, can accomplish this. Here is my plan, open for discussion.
We need to first assume that we will not be able to or even allowed to run any lines across the country. We have to assume the entire communications grid is owned by the telcos and we will have to rent bandwidth from them to connect to all the various sites. But we really only require one fast connection and a wireless system per area. This is the plan on how to get there.
Step 1: everyone turn off your security features on your home wireless network. Let people access the internet through your line, it's not illegal if you allow them to and you won't be held responsible for their actions. Configure your system to give much higher priority to your computers than everyone else?s, that way you don't experience performance issues but still provide full speed to users when your line is not in use, which is probably the majority of the day.
Step 2: Local communities need to set up a local infrastructure. New apartments, new neighborhoods, and other local communities should spend some money on a tower and powerful high-speed wireless system to provide free internet to there local communities (figure a 1 mile radius reliable broadcast). The homeowners group or similar organizations could then spend some money for the entire community for one high-speed connection. Security should be disabled at this access point, ideally.
Step 3: IT fellows should create a freeware program (later to be integrated into windows and OSx) that allows you to dynamically send and receive packets on multiple connections. It needs to detect the networks and determine quickly what routes to take for a given packet.
I don't know if anyone is familiar with Ham radio, but a lot of the ham repeaters already have this setup. We just need to expand it past the hobbyists. There are allot of free long range repeaters out there, every town has at least one. We need to expand all of these to allow internet traffic, paid for by donations, state/town contributions and such. Home wireless cards will probably require an amplifier and may require you to mount your antenna on your roof.
I would effectively call this new free global wireless network fgw: free global wireless. In the long run it will take on a life of its own, perhaps creating the breading grounds for a new independent internet.

This conversation is currently closed to new comments.

72 total posts (Page 2 of 8)   Prev   01 | 02 | 03 | 04 | 05   Next
Thread display: Collapse - | Expand +

All Comments

Collapse -

That's my point; none of this is 'free'

by CharlieSpencer In reply to individuals will purchase ...

" public hardware will be provided just as free ham repeaters (paid for by clubs with sponsors) and free radio signals (paid for by advertisers) are provided to the communities today."

How do you think advertisers pay for radio? By factoring the advertising cost into the price of the products or services they sell. Somebody somewhere is paying for it, one way or the other.

I stepped across the hall and spoke to our in-house amateur radio aficionado. According to him, most clubs in this area don't have a tower. The locals here have their repeater on the city water tower and have to pay an annual lease fee. That fee is covered by their club dues, not by any sponsorship. So much for 'free' towers. He did say they'd be happy to take sponsorship money if you can arrange such a deal...

"There will always be free bandwidth within each spectrum section."

Bandwidth is the least of your problems.

" could easily get free water. If you live by a lake or river, just run a pipe to your basement and add a small pump and water processing facility; add a carbon filtration system ..."

One more time, that isn't free. You have to factor the cost of the delivery system into each gallon you use. Over time that cost will become less per gallon, but you're going to have to spend a lot of money before you get that first gallon out of the ground. That's basic Economics 101. The cost will never reach zero because you're having to regularly buy filters.

My ham buddy did raise one issue: Who's paying for the electricity to run all this infrastructure equipment? Is Boondock Power & Light paying for this out of the goodness of their hearts? The amateur radio groups certainly aren't.

Collapse -


by winthrop.polk In reply to That's my point; none of ...

As stated in another thread of this post, yes nothing in the world is truly free; but there are relatively free things. Yes the aforementioned water is free. If you want the convenience of running it to your house and cleaning it, it will cost. Once an infrastructure is setup, operation is relatively free except for maintenance and operations costs which can be expensive for systems. But if you know the system will be running anyway without actually being used (like most personal wireless systems during the day and often ham equipment), you should provide it to others for free; yes I said free. If I give you a ham sandwich and I say it's free, relative to you it is free and I could care less that I cost me a buck or two, it was going to go bad anyway. But yes, nothing is truly free; I only shifted the cost of the ham sandwich. In which case ?free? shouldn?t be part of the English language but ?relatively free? should be. Everything in the universe is relative; understand the context of what you?re reading. Yes I want people, hams, communities, and cities to pickup this cost. But like I said, if you?re not using every single bit of bandwidth on your home network, you?re still paying for it. Why not provide it to others.

If you are not willing to put a little back into the community to set this up, there is no reason to consider you relevant to this conversion, no offense and I appreciate your input. I just want to talk to people who are willing. Later, when the system is viable, you may want to get in on it. You can still use the system anytime you want, lol. I know there are a lot of people out there who are willing to put a little into this and there are a lot of people who aren?t but still would use the system. Let?s change direction and go to the last post by Dumphry which is a good lead in.

Collapse -

One of the reasons I keep responding

by CharlieSpencer In reply to Okay

"If you are not willing to put a little back into the community to set this up, there is no reason to consider you relevant to this conversion, no offense and I appreciate your input. I just want to talk to people who are willing."

So far, the only ones who've responded to your idea without contempt are Dumphrey and little old irrelevant me. My responses aren't just to point out the economic hurdles to what you're discussing. I'm trying to keep the topic alive so others will see it. I'm not sure where you hope to find these "people who are willing", but so far none of them have chimed in here at TR.

Collapse -

RE : Why not provide it to others

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Okay

Well in my case I don't want to go to Jail for Downloading Kiddy Porn and end up on the Sexual Offenders List as a Pervert who is known by everyone who cares to bother looking.

There is also the cost of Excess Usage involved as many do not have a Open ISP Plan that just allows whatever they want to download to be downloaded. After a certain limit it starts to cost the Owner of that Connection More Money.

I personally have a 30 Gig Per Month Limit I can burn that up in under a day when required and then for the next 2 GIG I pay 15 cents per MEG which works out to $300.00 then it becomes free again but at a reduced speed.

So I pay $100.00 per months for Fast Cable Internet then if I go over the 30 GIG Limit I pay up to another $300.00 three times the months Cable Bill then have it reduced to Dial Up Speeds.

Personally if I wanted or needed a $400.00 per month ISP Plan I would have it but I don't see why I should pay that type of money so someone else can mooch off me and do as they please at my expense. If someone was to ask I don't have a problem with allowing them to use it but when they sneak around and steal I do have a problem.


Collapse -

I can guarantee the Government won't allow you to do this...

by ThumbsUp2 In reply to individuals will purchase ...

re: Water, you said "It would probably cost $20k-$40k not including the pipe run but would provide you with free cleaner water for life. Unfortunately, I doubt the government will allow you to do this just as they don't allow you to camp unless it?s a designated campground."

Fortunately, the waters running through a state belong to all of the people in the state, not just one individual who wants to take what they want, when they want, regardless of the repercussions to anybody else down stream. Permits are required in order to withdraw water from any surface water source and those are in high demand/short supply. Most rivers and streams are already over-allocated, so getting a permit to withdraw water, even for drinking purposes, is near impossible.

So, the point is, no matter how much money you had, you couldn't just do what you wanted to do. And, these are all laws on the books for over a century, enforceable and punishable by fines and/or a stretch in the slammer!

Your 'free ISP' idea is much the same. Frequencies ARE regulated. Some are available to the public. But, when you capture some it to resell (and you WOULD have to resell to cover expenses), you are no longer 'the public'. You are a for-profit business!

Collapse -

WOW again!

by winthrop.polk In reply to I can guarantee the Gover ...


I wouldn't sell the service; it would be free just as any local ham has free special internet access if systems are setup locally. I would be providing a public service.

It is sad though, that one can't take water out of a river. Over population is to blame here I guess. But it is funny. You really wouldn't be using any more water than you buy from the water company so you?re not going to be causing any shortages, in the ideal water model anyway. I guess I just really hate middle men. You could still pull it out of the ground though? Any quantity? I doubt it; I?m pretty sure you need a permit for that too.

You know, the law makes sense for businesses, corporations and people who are profiting from the water. But it doesn't make sense for the average homeowner who is not treated as fairly as the industries. Industrial facilities use 100s of tons of water per minute, and humans use a few liters per day. So shouldn't the government be forced to issue a relatively percapita equal amount of permits for individual use as they do for industrial use (and industrial use is HUGE!). For example, they issue a permit to a power plant that allows them to use 1,000,000 tons per day. Shouldn?t they also be force to issue 1,000,000 permits for 1 ton each for citizen use?

Collapse -

Silly Palmetto - you just need to BELIEVE

by Dr Dij In reply to Sure, bandwidth is free


This is a special breed, a 'techno-fairy', skilled in polishing dark fiber ends (and if you use dark energy to transmit the free internet on, I suppose the Telcos will never know).

The BANDWIDTH FAIRY dances around at night, staying late with unpaid overtime and knows all protocols. Rumor is the BF just got CCIE certified, has petabytes of photographic memory, and a built in protocol analyzer in (his)her fingertip!

The bandwidth fairy also mystimagically makes illegal copies of videos and music download at LIGHT SPEED, Captn - without affecting anyone else's internet use! (make it so mumbles Jean Luc - turn on the tri-desic wormhole with tachyon beams, Broccoli and Wesley so Voyager can hear us in the delta quadrant).

Having a parts replicator and a helium-3 powered fusion reactor to power it all, (S)he doesn't even need to charge for parts! (ok, some of the cisco clone parts are made in china so they don't cost much anyway)

In all fairness to Winthrop, innovative companies are developing mesh wireless routers. These would be handy in rural areas, extending connectivity from the edge of broadband wired connections out to areas via wireless mesh routers where no wired broadband available. Until such time as they become free or incredibly cheap, rural neighbors would likely form formal or informal telecom co-ops to fund these, paid by those seeking connection to place them at their own place to extend conx further and at wired location at neighbors to extend to them.

Collapse -

OK I didn't understand a single word of that

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Silly Palmetto - you just ...

But that could be because you failed to make any mention of Anti-Light the Photon Equivalent of Matter and Anti Matter.

Anti Light is far easier to transport and produces a larger amount of energy when it comes into contact with Light. Naturally enough the Cable ISP's refuse to acknowledge the Existence of Anti Light as their Infrastructure then would become a Weapon of Mass Destruction across the Globe.


Collapse -

Dr. Dij also left out the packet gnomes

by CharlieSpencer In reply to OK I didn't understand a ...

that live in the wires and run to carry the data packets from one node to the next.

Collapse -


by winthrop.polk In reply to Dr. Dij also left out the ...

WTF are yall saying. lol. The last paragraph of your post was actually useful, so why the gibberish?

Back to Networks Forum
72 total posts (Page 2 of 8)   Prev   01 | 02 | 03 | 04 | 05   Next

Related Discussions

Related Forums