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The NRA says put armed guards in schools..

By CharlieSpencer ·
Tags: Off Topic
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/12/21/nra-chief-urges-armed-guards-in-every-school-dismisses-calls-for-gun-control/?intcmp=trending

Putting armed guards in schools -may- be a solution for schools, but what about movie theaters, malls, houses of worship, and other locations that have been the sites of killings this year? Is the solution to put armed guards EVERYWHERE? Maybe this is some kind of jobs program? How are we paying for all these guards? How about a fat tax on ammunition?

NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre :"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,"

No mention of even trying to prevent the bad guy from getting the gun in the first place. No call for stricter enforcement of existing laws, or suggestion of improved mental health diagnosis and treatment, or mention of closing the screening exception for gun shows. Just let the bad guy get his gun; we can wait until he's using it and then shoot it out.

"Will you at least admit it's possible that ... 26 innocent lives might have been spared that day," he (LaPierre) said, if the shooter had encountered "qualified armed security."

Sure, if Mr. LaPierre will admit it's possible that confiscating personal firearms might also have spared innocent lives. His armed guards are a reactive force, neither proactive nor preventative. No anti-social gunman is going to be deterred by their presence; he's ready to dying anyway. They won't get there in time to save the first half-dozen people, but they might reduce the body count (assuming they get there before the gunman suicides). It doesn't solve the problem, it only minimizes the consequences. Maybe only 8 parents will bury a child, instead of 20.

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Most British POLICE don't carry guns!

by aidemzo_adanac In reply to Secret Service & Other Co ...

It is becoming more and more common these days out of sheer necessity but I remember when barely ANY British police carried a gun. Even now, most smaller towns don't have armed police on the streets. They are trained and have weapons at the precinct, but they are used just like when a riot squad suits up for a takedown. They also face some of the world's rowdiest crowds, football hooligans, which have ceased a great deal of their violence due to the laid back approach by modern police. The presence of police in riot gear, carrying guns were found to escalate violence even more. Now they are far less threatening, take a much more 'stand offish' observer's role and violence at football games dropped dramatically. Then again they also have Big Brother in England, not the TV reality show but the actual cameras. They are monitored by a private, third party agency that reports activity to police...and it works.

Can you imagine the uproar in the US if they controlled guns AND kept an eye on people? Then again, if it's effective and people live safer, quieter lives, where's the problem? So how important is it, really, to hold on to antiquated set of rights that people take literally and misunderstand their true meaning anyway?

We have the same rights in Canada and the UK, but there is CONTROL and that makes life better for everyone. Need an AK47 to feel like a man? Move to f**kin Afghanistan or Iraq! THEY have the rights you seek from America. Instead, you seek to align your laws with theirs while saying how prehistoric and out of touch their society is. Americans wouldn't be like them if laws were slacker, would they? Maybe it will sink in....no, who am I kidding, it'll never get through to some people.

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Makes life better in the UK??

by SmartAceW0LF In reply to Most British POLICE don't ...

I can find no citations on this imaginary UK you speak of. If you truly desire to "get through" to some people, stop talking in a condescending manner to them. ****, you might even consider a couple of valid citations.

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There is no good solution right now

by AV . In reply to The NRA says put armed gu ...

I don't think his suggestion to put armed guards at every school is the answer, but maybe temporarily it might be a good idea because of copycat crimes.

I know most people don't like the take-away of what he said; "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun", but its the only thing that makes sense. We have guns everywhere and thats our reality. Isn't it better to have a fighting chance if a sick individual decides to use you as target practice?

I think he made some good points about the videos and movies that they make today. To a sick mind, they give inspiration, especially if the killers are glorified. Do we really need a video game called Kindergarten Killers? I never heard of it before today, but its appalling to me that it has been sold for 10 years now. Who buys that crap and thinks its entertainment anyway?

The real answer lies in how we can identify and treat those individuals that are mentally ill and capable of killing. In the case of Adam Lanza and James Holmes, everyone knew they were sick, yet they were allowed to be part of society and were able to get their hands on weapons. Both of them had body armor/vests. Who needs that if they're not in law enforcement? Shouldn't that be a red-flag that maybe they don't have good intentions?

So what if they reinstate the assault weapons ban. What about the existing assault weapons that people now own? Do you think Obama is going to force everyone to turn them in? I doubt it. Short of doing that, the law will do absolutely nothing but give everyone a false sense of security.

AV

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AV did you watch the entire Rant?

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to There is no good solution ...

I personally liked the way that he started to say that Sick People shouldn't have weapons and then dropped it like a Hot Potato when he realized that he was suggesting that there needed to be some controls.

The entire Rant which is all it was because he refused to accept any questions and realized that he and his organization where under attack and very smelly to boot was full of inconsistencies.

Not sure how this applies in the US where there is a Constitutional Right to Bear Arms and that doesn't get restricted by any Common Sense as any restriction would be breaching someones Constitutional Rights so the NRA would have to fight for those rights.

As for Assault Weapons sorry but I see absolutely no need for them and to be perfectly honest if I couldn't stop something with a 5 round Mag I shouldn't be shooting, I certainly don't need a 30 Round Mag, though you have to chose the correct weapon for what you are hunting as a 12 Gage isn't the best for everything. Actually even with a 12 Gage I don't need a pump Action device if I can not stop something that would be stopped with a 12 Gage with the second barrel I shouldn't be using it to begin with and if it's only a single barrel I missed the first time. I don't deserve a second or third go to get it. Those things you just point in the general direction and pull the trigger and you hit whatever it is you are shooting at so why do you need to put 5 or 6 rounds of Shot up for what you've missed with the first 4 or 5?

Sport involves giving the animal a Chance and using Multiple Rounds isn't Sporting. Just my opinion though.

But your Real Problem in the US is the fact that the Second Amendment has been constituted into believing that Everyone has a right to Bear Arms. That includes the Loony down the road who is full of Drugs and the person who stole a weapon from the house that they burgled last night. Till there is a change to the Constitution any fiddling around the edges is pointless and any attempt to make Constitutional Changes needs Bipartisan Support and No Emotion just Cold Hard Logic. Sorry but I personally can not see either of those requirements being meet in the near term so I think you'll have more of the Same Old Same Old for a very long time to come. The mere fact that Shootings very rarely get reported unless there are 10 or more victims is a real worry as they are so common in your country that the smaller numbers shot simply don't rate much of a mention unless they are someone Famous or considered as a Celebrity.

Also as most Mental Illness isn’t covered by Your Medical Insurance System your country has a self inflicted problem that to me seems insurmountable.

Col

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I heard it all

by AV . In reply to AV did you watch the enti ...

I did see his entire speech and actually I thought he bought up a few good points. As far as the "sick" people goes, he did mention setting up a national database of people with mental illness, which some states already have, so I don't think he's averse to having controls, just not for guns. He doesn't see them as the problem.

I think you can't put the genie back in the bottle when it comes to guns in the US. If I thought banning semi-automatic weapons was the answer and we would never have crimes like this again, I'd be all for it, but it isn't going to make one bit of difference. Criminals with killer intent will just buy their weapons illegally. The government will never round up the millions of previously purchased semi-automatic assault weapons from law abiding citizens and isn't capable of taking them away from criminals. That's why Wayne LaPierre's answer of "the only answer to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" is the only answer right now. As much as people don't like that answer, it is the only one because of the reasons I stated above.

As far as ammo goes, supposedly Adam Lanza rigged the Bushmaster using a method called "jungle-taping" where he taped two cartridges together so he wouldn't have to pause to reload. So, if we ban larger cartridges, that won't work either.

Not all gun sports are hunting. Personally, I've shot targets and if I have 10 tries at it before I have to reload, thats all the better. Nothing sinister there. I've never hunted. I don't really have a taste for that.

I was still disappointed in the NRA stance. I expected to hear something along the line of they are working on new technology that will prevent stolen guns from being used by people other than their owners in the event they are stolen. Or, we're coming out with a checklist of best practices for how guns in the home should be secured. Everything I heard from LaPierre was in defense of gun ownership in America, but I thought he would throw out some new ideas instead of just laying blame everywhere he could. AND there is a lot of blame to go around.

Mental illness will now be covered by our medical insurance providers under Obamacare. Previously, there was limited coverage, but most times people never took advantage of it anyway because of the stigma attached to mental disorders in our society. Our employers are in charge of handling the benefits paperwork in companies, so the last thing you would ever want them to see is that you have a mental disorder.

It isn't an easy problem to solve and we may never be able to prevent gun violence totally, but we need to really continue the discussion of how we can keep guns out of the hands of homicidal maniacs and look at all the different approaches. Seriously, lets start with some of the horrible video games they sell or the atrocious violence in some of these movies.

AV

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Any idea why I don't play Computer Games?

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to I heard it all

As for Target Shooting I have a Uncle who is heavily into that with Hand Guns and I have upset him dramatically when he pushed for me to go to the Range with him and put a few rounds through one of his Target Pistols.

To this day he still believes that I must be heavily into Target Shooting and Practice a lot but the truth is that before that time I had not touched a Pistol for about 25 years probably longer and I do personally prefer Long Arms Rifles simply because they are more accurate from my prospective at least.

As for more shots per MAG all Pistols I have ever handled carried 9 Rounds, the Revolvers where 6 Shot and personally I've never needed any more rounds it's just as east to change a Magazine as it is to have more rounds and they make the weapon heaver so they are less likely to be as accurate in my hands at least.

With Rifles I've personally used 12 Gages, a whole lot of .22 and ex military Bolt Action WW1 & 2 303's and one modified Lee Enfield 303 bored to 410 Shot Gun. With any of the Rifles I've personally never needed any more than 5 Round Mag's, Strips or whatever you want to call them.

The Shooties are just that Single Round Rifles with the exception of a really nice Under & Over 20 Gage and .22 which I've shot a couple of times at vermin when on a mates farm.

I've lived in areas when Gun Racks are common on cars and it's uncommon to not see rifles in them and worse still on farms where you simply don't consider going out without a firearm of some sort generally for Feral Pigs so you need something with some stopping power. Even then I've only ever needed to put 3 rounds down a barrel in the 50 odd years when I've been out on those farms for self protection.

However at the same time there have been many Amateur Shooters who come onto the proprieties and shoot and they are downright dangerous. One group came out with 12 Gages to shoot pigs and those even with solids in them where not going to do anything more than antagonize the pig and upset them more than a little. Of course the people in question because they had "Expensive Rifles" where using Duck Shot and expected their new "Play Toys" to do everything. Those are the people who scare me, they have no idea of what it is that they are doing and have ended up hurting themselves more often than not. I've personally had to make safe 2 bodies and basically wait for the Police to show up to investigate their deaths which while accidents where effectively Suicides through stupidity. Or the guy who Peeved a Pig off and then climbed a tree dropped his double barrel Shootie and blew his own foot off at about half way up to the knee.

The silliest one however was the guy who crawled under a fence and then dragged his shootie through after him unbroken and shot himself in the upper body and face. That was a mess and a half.

The only time I've even needed to put a lot of rounds down a barrel was when we where shooting sheep in a drought where is was too expensive to feed them, way too expensive to transport them off the property and the kindest thong you could do was shoot them before they died from thirst. 2 of us shoot 3000 sheep over a 3 day period bury the carcases and then set about reloading that night so we could do it all again the next day. Only time I've ever needed lots of Ammo and we had to watch the barrels so that they didn't overheat and cause problems.

I do have 2 Replica French Dueling Pistols here on the wall as Display Items, Muzzle Loading Flintlocks with about 10 inch barrels that look a lot like smaller Elephant Guns from the old Hollywood days and if I'm ever asked I just say that they are Replica's as I have never run across anyone stupid enough to want to fire one and it's something I'm defiantly not interested in. They are far more valuable as they are than if they are used and quite simply they are not really suitable to use for anything.

When I watched the Speech from the NRA Guy I do agree that what he suggested of having Armed Guards in place to stop the Bad Guys is the only current alternative but I did get the distinct feeling that when he started to talk about Sick People he dropped that idea very quickly, the speech seemed disjointed to me and didn't fit quite right to my ears at least.

But as I said above things have got so bad in your country now that I personally can not see any solution. The attempt to remove SLR's from the population even if the Politicians where to agree which is about as likely as them all sitting around a table promoting their opponents as Good Guys who need to be listened to, isn't going to be effective anyway. Way too many people have on-sold SLR's and even more are unlikely to hand them in if there was ever a Amnesty/Buy Back or whatever. The reality is that things should never have been allowed to deteriorate to the stage that they have currently got to and to be perfectly honest I can not see any reasonable solution in the long term let alone anything sensible ever.

The idea of calling a Cab in LA and seeing 3 pistols sliding around on the front seat was so off putting to me when I was last there that I swore never to return. It was so unnecessary and just Over Kill. I didn't so much mind the cage that I had to sit in but the attitude of that driver on that day did worry me as I was constantly under the impression that I had to prove I was really a passenger who wanted to go somewhere rather than someone who had set out specifically to rob the driver. I took lifts with co workers after that till I left way too much of a worry to catch cabs.

Col

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I'm not sure why you don't play computer games

by AV . In reply to Any idea why I don't play ...

I'm thinking you're old school and just not interested. I'm not a computer games person either, though I've had fun target shooting. My targets are not paper though. I like dishes, cans, bowling pins, things I can **** up.

I used to go out in the woods and set targets up and shoot them. It was far away from anywhere where someone could get hurt and I would use target pistols. I never mastered the bow. I tried, but I don't have the arm strength to be good at it. It was always a fun day. I never killed anything and ****, I had to have some purpose for all those crappy dishes and teapots my mother-in-law gave me that she got from garage sales for a dollar. :^0 .

I've shot a couple of rifles, don't ask me which ones as I'm not sure, but they are very accurate with a long range target. I'm not really good with a shotgun. I'm afraid of frilling up my shoulder because I'm not a big woman.

Where I live, there were probably once a lot of feral pigs. I find bones every now and then and thank God, I've never seen one. As long as I have some kind of weapon, I'm happy.

We have amateur or God knows what kind of shooters in the woods behind our house. Its a permit-only kind of set up, but kind of disconcerting anyway because you don't know who's shooting. I really don't like it, but it has waned over the years because they killed all of the wildlife off already.

When I first moved to where I live 20 years ago, this place was very wild and beautiful. I had a yardful of turkeys, deer and everything else you could imagine. After they opened the land to hunting a couple of years ago, there is now nothing left and I rarely see any deer or turkey. My property backs up to a so-called nature preserve that allows some hunting., but there is a lot of poaching that goes on. It is very sad because all of the wildlife has been killed off.

I bet it must have been hard for you to shoot the sheep during the drought. We have a sheep farm down the street and they are just so docile. That must have been sad for you.

I don't really care how many shots I have, I can work with it, but my intent is a whole lot different than someone who wants to kill people.

I don't think you should compare the US to Los Angeles either. The rest of the country isn't like that.

AV

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I didn't like target shooting when the Army was paying for the ammo.

by CharlieSpencer In reply to I'm not sure why you don' ...

I wasn't very good at it, I often got smoke in my eyes (making my accuracy even worse), and I hated cleaning the weapon afterward. I actually enjoyed running a range more than firing on one.

None of that means I don't see how other could enjoy it. To each his own single-shot, non-automatic entertainment.

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"I was still disappointed in the NRA stance."

by CharlieSpencer In reply to I heard it all

I think the organization would have been better off if it had made no official statement on the subject at all. The one LaPierre made rings of trying to shift blame. It's as if Mom heard a vase break, and one of the kids spontaneously yelled, "I didn't do it!" You don't bail when the boat isn't taking on water.

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I think the NRA created expectations that never materialized

by AV . In reply to "I was still disappointed ...

They said they would make a meaningful contribution and I didn't hear it. I was expecting something new and didn't get it. I didn't expect to hear more of the same. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame them, but their response is not helpful.

AV

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