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The Nuclear debate rages on...

By Benevolence ·
George Ou recently opened up a particularly large can of worms recently when he wrote an article discussing the myths surrounding Windows XP and power consumption. Much of the debate has turned into a discussion on how to best produce power whilst reducing pollution.

One thing many people seem to agree on is that whether or not humans are contributing to global warming, it is in our best interests to reduce the effect and protect our environment.

Some of us believe we need to move toward nuclear energy production, and some of us believe this is a bad idea.

With so many new developments in energy production, and so many differing arguments, what do you think is the direction we should head in?

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They both tell you what the real solution is

by georgeou In reply to You keep dodging James Lo ...

So either you're wrong when you say Nuclear power is just pure industry greed or Patrick Moore and James Lovelock are just corporate sellouts when two of the biggest leaders in the environmental movement say Nuclear power is our savior.

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Thought we weren't getting religious George

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to You keep dodging James Lo ...

No they do not say that, they are saying it's the best we can do now.

They are probably right in that, and the fact that it fits in with industry plans means we just might see CO2 reduction through it.

The only reason it's viable as far as the industry is concerned is because of the ongoing scarcity of fossil fuels and the market manipulations that are making obscene profits out of them and STILL polluting our planet.

All fission is, is the same model with a different fuel. Accept this as the way to go, then in a few decades time we'll be having the same argument again and we will have wasted those decades not bothering to look for a real solution because we are alright now Jack.

I'll sign up for it tomorrow George, all you have to do is get the boys making a profit out of this to devote 50% of their net profit to R & D for a real solution. Something we could have done a long time ago, if we could think past the next balance sheet or the next election.

Oh and by the way, they pay for the plant, they pay for the reprocessing facilities, they pay for 'safe' disposal and they pay for decommissioning. If they don't want to bear the real cost out of their revenue, then they don't deserve to make a profit.

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Thats what I worry about too

by Benevolence In reply to You keep dodging James Lo ...

Thats what I worry about too Tony. Why spend so much time and money on non-renewables, it is just so old fashioned industrial.

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So founder of Greenpeace and author of Gaia are lying for industry?

by georgeou In reply to Completely and utterly wr ...

"But an industrialist with safe on his lips and dollar signs in his eyes is a liar in my opinion."

Ok, so Patrick Moore and James Lovelock are sell outs to industry? Please explain that one to me.

http://www.ecolo.org/media/articles/articles.in.english/love-indep-24-05-04.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/14/AR2006041401209.html

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No they are simply both more concerned with CO2

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to So founder of Greenpeace ...

emissions than they are with anything else.

Their chief concerns are different than mine. If you presented either one with a better alternative, they'd leap at it.

Nuclear fission is a pragmatic choice based on what we can efficiently do now about CO2 emissions. It's not a magic wand though, perhaps if you stop trying to sell me it as a cure for the worlds ills, I might be more receptive.
It's not a long term solution, it's not a green solution, it's merely a pragmatic one.

The only difference between fossil fuels and fission, is the waste is more localised.

If I suggested putting scrubbers on every burner and storing the CO2, for later sometime when we could find a use for it or some means of disposing of it safely , you'd laugh at me. Why shouldn't I find the same solution for fission waste just as funny?

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That's precisely the point, there is no other alternative

by georgeou In reply to No they are simply both m ...

"Their chief concerns are different than mine. If you presented either one with a better alternative, they'd leap at it."

I'm sure they would, but we all know there isn't one.

"Nuclear fission is a pragmatic choice based on what we can efficiently do now about CO2 emissions. It's not a magic wand though, perhaps if you stop trying to sell me it as a cure for the worlds ills, I might be more receptive."

I NEVER said it was a magic pill I don't know why you're so eager to put those words in to my mouth.

All I ever said was that it was currently the ONLY clean alternative to coal.

I also said that it produces less pollution than Coal in absolute numbers by orders of magnitude and I said that none of it (with few MINOR fluke exceptions) ever gets in to the atmosphere.

Now instead of putting words in to my mouth, try and dispute these facts.

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You keep putting words in mine don't you

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to No they are simply both m ...

The first paragraph that started this debate, you put a damn book in my mouth.

Nuclear fission is our saviour, that was your interpretation of their words was it not?

What are you saying now heaven on earth isn't all it's cracked up to be ?

So we agree that nuclear fission isn't our savior, merely a short respite.
Hooray.
Our only alternative at this time is what I would say, and the real question to answer George.
Without people like me and there are a lot of us, who is going to bother looking at an alternative until it is going to be profitable to do so?

So I'm going to stay active until more people look at the real cost of what they are doing, fission is simply SSDFuel.

It's my civic duty.

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Then you'll just keep forcing coal on us

by georgeou In reply to No they are simply both m ...

"Nuclear fission is a pragmatic choice based on what we can efficiently do now about CO2 emissions"

You understand this yet you're willing to sabotage any efforts on Nuclear energy. That sums it up pretty nicely and there's no point in convincing you otherwise. You can keep hoping for that magical cure where everyone will move in to tiny cubicles in the city and only ride their bicycles from now on while environmentalists like James Lovelock and Patrick Moore wake up from their pipe dream and try to implement real practical solutions.

I'm going to check out of this debate now since there is no debating something we all agree on as the best solution available yet we're going to be locked out by paralysis through analysis.

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Such interesting word choices you use

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to No they are simply both m ...

I'm forcing you to use coal? No economics is forcing you to use coal. I'm sabotaging the nuclear industry? I can only say I wish I'd been more effective.
Should I accuse you of sabotaging the environment?

I worked in heavy industry for twenty years George, I was born in a coal mining community. I know what safety is to industry, it's an overhead, something you cut.

So while the definition of safety is in their hands, I'm on the side of the angels.

Tell me nuclear is safer than it was I'll agree.

Tell me it could be a strand in a fight for a more eco friendly world I'll agree.

Tell me it's now economic even with me sabotaging their efforts to make a profit I'll agree.

Tell me it's the only alternative I won't.

Tell me it's the best alternative I won't.

Why do we need all this energy ?

All it is is an effort to maintain the current status quo.

The guys you want me to support are the ones who maintain a forest is worth more dead, so up yours and the mechanical energy hog you rode in on.

Saboteur?

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On a payroll?

by Benevolence In reply to So founder of Greenpeace ...

George, you aren't by any chance paid to market the Nuclear Industry are you?

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