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The Pope and the Catholic Church

By TheChas ·
Rather than risk corrupting Oz's positive thread in respect of Pope John Paul II, I am starting this thread for open comments on the teachings of Pope John Paul and the Catholic faith.

On sexuality:
Catholic teaching on sexuality provides that sexual relations are a gift from God to be shared between one man and one woman.
Further, sexual relations must not preclude the possibility of creating a child.

If one follows the teachings of the church, there is no need for birth control or abortion because one would only have sex with ones partner when a pregnancy would not cause a problem.

On Gay rights:
Pope John Paul was very forthright in the concept of love the sinner, hate the sin.
People and governments should not discriminate against Gay individuals.

However, homosexual intercourse is a sin.

The Catholic Church is very willing to accept anyone who is willing to repent and forsake their actions that could be considered sinful.

On medical research:
Artificial conception, embryonic stem cell research and cloning are considered to be inappropriate.

This is all to do with the teachings of the sanctity of the human body as a temple of the Lord.

As I do, the Catholic Church does not support the concept of the ends justifying the means.

Yes, there is potential good that might come from embryonic stem cell research. However, since life begins at conception, taking one life in attempt to save another is not right.

I am no theologian, nor am I as well versed in Catholic doctrine as I would desire. Still, I will come back from time to time and respond to those comments I can.

Chas

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but,

by Jaqui In reply to Bigger Issue

did "the core" message get put down correctly by the first to record it?
or did they screw it there, causing everything to be screwed since?
an impossible dilema, as there is no proof either way.
you have to either accept that man got it right, for once, or you deny the validity of the whole thing.

and, concidering how history shows man's ability to get it right is less than a 1 in a trillion chance...

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Did you see TDS with the penguins?

by tbragsda In reply to same sex pairings are a s ...

.
Very good segment. That it happens in nature is good enough for me, whether it proves it?s a natural predication or not is meaningless to those that believe it?s a sin. Someone like a Pope has the ability to leade his people, and this is one of the areas that I criticized in the other thread, only to become a villain.

Sometime, when the waters a little calmer, I may post my one experence with Communion. Its a funney story for some.

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same sex pairings?

by PsiFiScout In reply to same sex pairings are a s ...

I would love to see the research on this. The wolves and eagles in the Pacific Northwest are reproducing very well for homosexuals. Could they be adopting? I have spent a great deal of time in the wild and have never seen a pairing of two males or two females of any wild species.

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Hey thanks

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to The Pope and the Catholic ...

I toned it down out of respect for other peoples respect as well.
However seeing as you let the pink wriggly things out of the tin.
Homosexuality is a sin ? So priests who shag little boys are ok because they are really sorry, but a same sex couple is going to get toasted on Beelzebub's trident becaused they aren't ?
It's ok for a woman to have eight or nine kids while her bloke is enjoying his gift from god ?
When catholic priests start talking about sex of any sort I get really annoyed. Either they've never done it so they are talking out their ar$e or they are lying b@st@rds and have been up one recently.
Pederasty started in the catholic church because, it was deemed a sin and immediate revoking of priestly perogatives to break their vow of celibacy and have sex with a woman. But they were still celibate having not been with a woman if they buggered some little boy. Why did they pick boys, because they could indoctrinate them into keeping quiet.
No ones telling me this was all going on in secret and a few bad apples were spoiling the cider.

They chose to ignore this vile crap, so the church would not be damaged. Continually throughout history when given the choice between harmimg it's flock or the institution, they've never chosen their seat of their power.

So how is that not the end justifying the means ?

They should start practicing what they preach before they start preaching what I or anyone else should practice.

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone as one wise fella put it.

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Sins and Redemption

by TheChas In reply to Hey thanks

I make no exceptions nor excuses for the priests who have violated their vows and trust.

Yes, they have sinned.
In order for that sin to be absolved, they must both confess the sin and stop the sinful action.

I do have a problem with how the US Catholic Church dealt with the issue over the years.
All of the priests who broke their vow of celibacy with a same sex relationship should have been defrocked for the first offense.

I have known 2 priests who are caught up in this unholy problem. I would not have expected this from either of them.

I know that a large part of why priests were reassigned rather than defrocked is the shortage of priests.

The faithful of the Catholic Church have themselves to blame for at least part of the problem. Were vocations to the priesthood more strongly supported by Catholic families for their own offspring, there would be more and better priests around.

In the days of large families it was common for at least 1 child to be guided into becoming a priest or a nun.
Of course, human nature being what it is, the weak and "different" child was the one guided to a vocation.

While I personally do not agree with every position the church takes, if I desire to stay a member of the church, I must accept them.

Should it ever come to pass, I don't expect any of us to be alive if the church should find a theological basis to accept either married priests or Gay relationships.

As to your comment on preaching about sex, I think it falls under "those who can do, those who can't teach".
The church guides the flock in how they should live their daily lives. If one chooses to not follow those guidelines, one should find a faith that agrees with their beliefs.

Chas

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That's my problem with the church.

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to Sins and Redemption

There is nothing in their belief structure (though much in how they practice it) to say you as a true christian genuinely regretful of sins you may have committed shouldn't go to heaven. Yet confession, sacrament, the last rites, hallowed ground all give them control on whether those you leave behind accept that you have gone upstairs. That is their power they use your own beliefs to manipulate people into believing that they have the power to damn your soul. Everything I know of the bible says only you have the power to do that.

As for the stance against homosexuality, I believe that came in by association with the roman empire which initially so persecuted them. All the texts must have been coloured by the beliefs that existed at that time. 'Bout time they moved on.

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Asking for forgiveness vs true contrition.

by Jessie In reply to That's my problem with th ...

Confession, is the act of asking for forgiveness. Most of us, when we ask for forgiveness from our friends and family are forgiven. Would you not expect the same from your heavenly father?

The basic Catholic belief is that you can be forgiven by asking for forgiveness, OR you can be forgiven by TRUE contrition and repentence, which only YOU and GOD know about but for forgiveness without confession, you must be truly and deeply sorry.

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Confession is a cop out

by dale lad In reply to Asking for forgiveness vs ...

So if you aren't really sorry and contrite you can get forgiven anyway by telling the priest?
Easy way out...

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Even better than that

by neilb@uk In reply to Confession is a cop out

You could buy an "indulgence" and repent before you've done it! You could buy time off from purgatory or, in some cases, buy your way out of **** and purgatory altogether. Tht's one of the (many) things that got Luther so ticked off with the Catholic Church.

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Confession and Punishment

by TheChas In reply to Confession is a cop out

The act of confessing ones sins does not deal with earthly punishments.

The confession and absolution process redeems your immortal soul so you can go to Heaven. Or, reduce your time in Purgatory.

Jesus gave the Apostles and thus their successors the power to absolve a persons soul of the consequences of their sins.

To be absolved of a sin, three things are required:

A contrite confession,

Performance of a penance,

A conscientious effort to not commit the same sin again.

In the early days of the Catholic faith, many people waited until they were near the end of their lives to be baptized.
Since Baptism wipes out all past transgressions and cleanses your soul, people waited until they were done sinning to be baptized.

Any sinner can be absolved of their sin in the eyes of the Church and the Lord.

Confession and absolution in no way is meant to replace or supplant the legal system.

Chas

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