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The Pope and the Catholic Church

By TheChas ·
Rather than risk corrupting Oz's positive thread in respect of Pope John Paul II, I am starting this thread for open comments on the teachings of Pope John Paul and the Catholic faith.

On sexuality:
Catholic teaching on sexuality provides that sexual relations are a gift from God to be shared between one man and one woman.
Further, sexual relations must not preclude the possibility of creating a child.

If one follows the teachings of the church, there is no need for birth control or abortion because one would only have sex with ones partner when a pregnancy would not cause a problem.

On Gay rights:
Pope John Paul was very forthright in the concept of love the sinner, hate the sin.
People and governments should not discriminate against Gay individuals.

However, homosexual intercourse is a sin.

The Catholic Church is very willing to accept anyone who is willing to repent and forsake their actions that could be considered sinful.

On medical research:
Artificial conception, embryonic stem cell research and cloning are considered to be inappropriate.

This is all to do with the teachings of the sanctity of the human body as a temple of the Lord.

As I do, the Catholic Church does not support the concept of the ends justifying the means.

Yes, there is potential good that might come from embryonic stem cell research. However, since life begins at conception, taking one life in attempt to save another is not right.

I am no theologian, nor am I as well versed in Catholic doctrine as I would desire. Still, I will come back from time to time and respond to those comments I can.


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by TomSal In reply to Two cents = your life ..o ...

You are preaching to the choir on this one. I absolutely already do what you say in your post, have been since I've been old enough to think for myself.

Doesn't change the fact that I have large disagreements with the Catholic faith. Not one iota.

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Looking back at his teachings

by Aldanatech In reply to The Pope and the Catholic ...

Pope John Paul II was a wise man, and it would be wise of us to learn from many of his teachings. Lets look at some of them.

* July 3th, 1980:

"Social justice cannot be attained by violence. Violence kills what it intends to create."

* December 30, 1987, Pope condemns the excesses of capitalism:

"This determination is based on the solid conviction that what is hindering full development is that desire for profit and that thirst for power already mentioned. These attitudes and 'structures of sin' are only conquered - presupposing the help of divine grace - by a diametrically opposed attitude: a commitment to the good of one's neighbor with the readiness, in the gospel sense, to 'lose oneself' for the sake of the other instead of exploiting him, and to 'serve him' instead of oppressing him for one's own advantage."

* January 15, 19**, Pope opposes Gulf War on a message to George H.W. Bush:

"We cannot pretend that the use of arms, and especially of today's highly sophisticated weaponry, would not give rise, in addition to suffering and destruction, to new and perhaps worse injustices."

* March 13, 1998, on the shortfalls of consumerism:

"A disconcerting conclusion about the most recent period should serve to enlighten us: side-by-side with the miseries of underdevelopment, themselves unacceptable, we find ourselves up against a form of superdevelopment, equally inadmissible. because like the former it is contrary to what is good and to true happiness. This superdevelopment, which consists in an excessive availability of every kind of material goods for the benefit of certain social groups, easily makes people slaves of 'possession' and of immediate gratification..."

* January 27, 1999, the Pope speaks out against capital punishment:

"Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform. I renew the appeal I made most recently at Christmas for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary."

* March 22, 2000, Pope calls for a Palestinian State:

"The Holy See has always recognized that the Palestinian people have the natural right to a homeland, and the right to be able to live in peace and tranquility with the other peoples of this area."

* January 13, 2003:

"NO TO WAR! War is not always inevitable. It is always a defeat for humanity."

March 22, 2003, Pope condemns George W. Bush's invasion of Iraq:
"When war threatens humanity's destiny, as it does today in Iraq, it is even more urgent for us to proclaim with a loud and decisive voice that peace is the only way to build a more just and caring society. Violence and arms can never solve human problems."


More on the Pope:

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I see you

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to Looking back at his teach ...

missed out on all his contentious discourses.
Say why haven't you responded to the question you asked on importing emailed files in to MySQL ?
Or have you been the victim of an identity theft.

P.S. if you want peace you have to fight for it constantly. Violence was used to spread catholicism across the world, so one can only assume as the church has run out of continents, it's no longer required.

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He apologized

by Aldanatech In reply to I see you

The Pope was well aware of the crimes that the Catholic church committed against humanity in the past, and that is why he personally gave a public apology to the world on behalf of the church. Otherwise he would have probably been considered as a hypocrite -- at least I would. As for the MySQL question I will answer it soon, although that is rather irrelevant in this discussion.

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Points mean Prizes

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to He apologized

He did indeed, a first and something I can respect. Course just saying sorry doesn't mean anything, and the church has stopped burning people alive, so maybe they are making progress.
The question I would have asked of him and anyone else who represents the church, is if it again became a choice between survival of the church as they know it or adherrence to their own system of ethics, what would the decision be ?
I 've seen no evidence whatsoever, that they'd keep their spiritual principals and sacrifice their secular privileges.

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I highly recommend "The Mission"

by JamesRL In reply to Points mean Prizes

As a movie that explores that very dilemma.

It takes places in 16XXs, and though fiction, explores a real event.

A Jesuit order sets up a mission in South America. Because the mission doesn't support slavery, and the land to north does, the mission grows and thrives.

But the church is faced with a dilemma. The area where the mission is has been ceded to the Portugese who support slavery. The mission has been ordered closed. When the priests resist, they are threatened with force of arms. The upper hierarchy of the church has been forced due to political considerations to accept this.

The real conflict comes when the priests split. One group of priests, led by Robert De Niro, chooses to meet force with force. Another group lead by the senior priest played by Jeremy Irons, choses to appeal to God, and appeal to the better nature of those who come to take the mission.

Not sure if there was any instance similar to the movie, but the church did abandon missions and turned their back on converts allowing them to become slaves. We would hope that they didn't take such a decision lightly.

Its a great movie, good music, great cinematography. And egads it makes you think.


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by Tony Hopkinson In reply to I highly recommend "The M ...

Hadn't heard of that one, sounds like my sort of thing. If De Niro's in it should be worth watching anyway.
My son bought me taxi Driver for xmas, watched it three times just for when you got the view of Bob's new haircut. Cracks me up every time.

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Very different movie lol

by JamesRL In reply to Cheers

DeNiro, Jeremy Irons and Liam Neeson star. Though Angels Falls should get a credit as well. I really enjoy the music. Be aware that the ragged liturgical singing of the Guarani Indians is actually a professional choir from London doing a great acting job.**530/


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You talkin to me?

by Montgomery Gator In reply to Cheers

You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Then who the **** else are you talkin' to? You talkin' to me? Well, I'm the only one here. Who do th f*** do you think you're talking to? Oh, yeah? Ok. Huh?

(Classic line by Robert DeNiro as Travis Bickle in "Taxi Driver")

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