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The rude employee

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I have a new job at a small state agency. It’s a good job. All the users need is a little planning guidance. My problem is that I have an employee who has good work habits and adequate computer skills. He is out-right rude with some of the agency management and staff. I have had some verbal complaints that staff refuse to go the rude guy for help. I understand that he had the same problem at his previous job.

Any thoughts?

Topic

Wow Too rude

In reply to The rude employee

Sounds like someone has to sit down with this person and be straight forward and explain what’s going on. If that doesn’t work, try putting to shoe on the other foot and reverse the situation. Maybe then they’ll see the light. If that doesn’t work then show him the door. It needs to be impressed on this individual that this type of behavior is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. PERIOD I’ve encountered the same with some people and reversing the tables was enough to make them get their affairs in order. However if it doesn’t work, termination is the only resort unless you have a position where they aren’t in contact with others, thereby avoiding the possible conflicts.

I’d take a firmer hand

In reply to Wow Too rude

I don’t see the point of talking to a misbehaving employee. We’re all adults. This person already knows that he is misbehaving. And I don’t see the point of putting a misbehaving employee in a position where you can hide his malfeasant behavior. I do give an allowance for a single instance of misbehavior if it is out of character for the person. We all have a bad day now and then.

I say if the person makes a habit of misbehaving, if misbehavior is a normal part of their character, then just get rid of him. No coddling is required. No warnings are needed. That’s like telling someone that they shouldn’t write graffitti on the office walls. I think that we all already know that. It is stupid to have a meeting with the person and say stop doing this when everyone knows that the action is wrong. Show some leadership and just get rid of him.

Warn, Document, and Dump

In reply to I’d take a firmer hand

Well, there are often business regulations regarding dismissing an employee, both for fairness and to protect the employer from legal reprisals (getting their pants sued off for unfair dismissal).

I absolutely agree that that you and your company should not have to put up with or pay a salary to an employee who does not realize that courtesy is a job requirement. But *first*, the employee must be made explicitly aware of the courtesy expectations. CONSULT WITH YOUR HR/PERSONNEL GROUP for their requirements about verbal notice, written warnings, and your responsibilities for documenting them. This gives the misbehaving employee a final chance to shape up (hah!), and solid evidence that you have done your best to encourage improvement. (If the jerk is still within a probationary period, it’s clear sailing!)

Cut this creep loose, but protect yourself, your department, and your company while doing so.

Similar to ‘Warn, Document, and Dump’ …

In reply to Warn, Document, and Dump

Most Governmental agencies will have personnel policies in-place for dealing with employees whose personalities don’t ‘mesh’ with the rest of the crew, or your customers.
Work ethic and habits notwithstanding, if someone’s in a ‘customer-facing’ position, courtesy and respect are almost equally important as technical skills.
“Plays-well-with-others” comes to mind here. It’s time this person got a “report card” of his/her performance, and has the offense(s) documented.
When you’ve gathered the requisite amount of documentation, cut’im loose!

Warn, Coach, Document, Dump

In reply to Similar to ‘Warn, Document, and Dump’ …

I had a similar problem employee. I spoke with the employee about the need for professionals to adjust their communication style in order to communicate with others. I required the employee to attend communication training. When training was completed I required them to set up 10-15 minutes to explain to me what they learned from the training and how they planned to incorporate it into their daily activities. I continued to monitor the employee and solicit feedback from those they interacted with. When the employee realized that I was serious about their changing or losing their job, they responded. “After all,” I explained, “I am trying to give you tools that will help you be successful no matter where you work or whom you work for.”
Don’t back down, don’t coddle and by all means – document, document, document!

Coaching is Key

In reply to Warn, Coach, Document, Dump

My company also looks on coaching as the next step in employee relations when problems arise. Fact is, he learned the bad habits from somewhere, he has the necessary base skills to do the job, now turn him into the employee you’d like and need him to be. He will either pull up his socks and make an effort, or you’ll have to let him go. As dee.white said though, document everything you and the company were willing to do to help him correct his behavior. That way he can’t claim that he was fired for personal reasons. I suspect though, if he’s as good at the job as you claim, he will realize that he needs to shape up before he gets shipped out.

you talking to a dog – woof woof

In reply to Coaching is Key

Counselling and training are the first steps. If they fail ‘in your face’ is a tact. I had an employee who was constantly rude and abrupt. In the end when he spoke I looked aound the floor and asked him where the dog was? ‘You must be talkin to a dog’. It became a joke, others caught on and to some extent we became fond of his rudeness. God bless the miserable little T.

Absolutely

In reply to Warn, Document, and Dump

Rudeness is not a protected status like race, color, religion, etc.

Give the guy a frank review with a warning that if his behavior does not improve to acceptable levels, he will be let go.

In his current state, this employee is not worth having around.

Re I’d take a firmer hand

In reply to I’d take a firmer hand

[quote]No warnings are needed[/quote]
Wrong! Todays labor laws tell us we simply can not let someone go for this kind of attitude without any kind of previous warning. At least 3 warnings have to be given formally and in writing and signed by supervisor and employee. Even though your rude employee is being a jerk he still has many rights

Laws differ from place to place

In reply to Re I’d take a firmer hand

Please provide proof.

Right To Work States

In reply to Re I’d take a firmer hand

Dan, et al.

There are states in which work is a privilege and not a right. In Georgia (in particular and others I am aware of) you can be terminated at any time for any reason as long as it is not a proven issue of discrimination. It is a “right-to-work” state. Having said that, government agencies are different from the states themselves because they are just that, government. Everyone so far has given sound advice. I will just restate

Counsel, Document, Counsel, Document, Counsel, Document and then if nothing changes — dismiss.

Cheers

Working for the state: Civil Service + A Union

In reply to Re I’d take a firmer hand

And, if anything like Ohio, a good union. A state judge friend of mine has a secretary that was foisted on her by another judge to “help out a friend.” This secretary goes well beyond incompetant: She is a total waste of space. Even tho absolutely all her work goes to other people (if she answers the phone, she won’t take a message!), can’t get rid of her.

Employee doesn’t have to sign

In reply to Re I’d take a firmer hand

This is all great but… The most important things are:
1. Document the case
2. Follow up with HR
3. Write the employee up and if he doesn’t sign, have a witness do it. All they’re signing for is that he received his warning – not that he agrees to it.
4. Write up an action plan that results in success, yet, include a statement regarding dismisal.
5. Follow up with the employee and with HR regarding this action plan, make sure things are getting done.
6. Follow up with the co-workers who claim he is rude and make sure they are being coached to allow him to change.
7. Commend the employee for ALL efforts to change behavior and point out where he is staying on task and where he is not.
8. Document everything.
9. Leave your stress at work.
10. Pick up a good 1st person shooter game and have havok on his virtual arse! (j/k) but really 1-9 are all about managing risk and opportunity. I know this might be a bit off topic but in Chinese writing their character for crisis is made up of two characters; Danger and Opportunity. You are in a crisis my friend manage it by eliminating the danger and capitolizing on the opportunity.

Rude Employee

In reply to I’d take a firmer hand

I have dealt with this type of situation, and the one recommendation I can make is document, document, document. If you can show that you have made multiple attempts to help this employee improve their disposition, you’ll find it easier to get rid of them. Also, show how this employee is depleting the morale of the rest of the team. It’s tough when you have someone who is talented technically, or does their job well, but its a package deal. You need to have a good balance. Good luck!

Re: I’d take a firmer hand

In reply to I’d take a firmer hand

[quote] I don’t see the point of talking to a misbehaving employee. We’re all adults. [/quote]

Welp. Maybe I don’t understand all of this, but I’ve been doing HR for a while:

1. “The point of talking to a misbehaving employee”, if nothing else, is the investment YOUR EMPLOYER has in that employee, which is uniformly considerable. We don’t throw away assets (there’s a reason we call it “human RESOURCES”) without at least having a good reason.

2. Didn’t he say he was employed by some government? They have civil service rules tht would choke a horse. I hope never to have to cope with HR in that environment, where the civil servant’s job is actually considered a PROPERTY RIGHT that can be enforced!

3. If I can take a misbehaving employee and make him or her into a good employee, then I have done my job. If I can’t, I try to learn from the experience so as to do better next time.

4. If the situation is hopeless, and there are no civil service considerations, then as others have said, document, document, document. Then fire. In California, at least, in this situation the employer is going to have to pay into their unemployment insurance account on this one, documented or not.

That’s what’s wrong with you management types

In reply to Re: I’d take a firmer hand

Regarding the investment of the employer in the employee, you fail to take into account the same investment times five or ten or twenty in the employees who work with the malfeasant person. The bad employee brings everyone else down. People hesitate to approach the rude employee when business tasks require it. That adds inefficiency. The rude employee demoralises the people around them. That creates situations where people sit around thinking about how they have to do something with this rude employee rather than actually doing the job. The other employees in the department are subjected to unnecessary stress just by having to deal with this employee. The entire operation of the department suffers because of this one person.

That’s not even taking into consideration the human element of the other employees. The rude employee creates confusion with the good employees. They see this malfeasant jerk apparently getting away with their behavior and feel that there is an injustice being pertetrated on them. They wonder if their own contribution of being approachable and team oriented is a mistake.

And, people do not change. You cannot reform a bad employee. You’re letting your messianic ego cloud your decisions. You want to feel like Jesus in the work place, redeeming the unredeemable, healing the unhealable, and basically thinking of yourself as a god. You are just as much a liability as the rude employee because you are an enabler. You permit the rude employee to continue in his behavior while you try to work your redemptive magic. You will fail. Even if you initially appear to have succeeded the bad employee will, over time, backslide to the point that they think that they can get away with their sociopathic behavior. They know that managers get tired of trying to redeem them. Eventually the good employees that complain about the bad one will be considered ‘persona non gratis’ for continuing to complain. Your approach only entrenches the bad employee and secures their place in the organization.

The Messiah talks back

In reply to That’s what’s wrong with you management types

You seem to want a ten-second solution to a twenty-year problem. That doesn’t happen very often in real life.

I’ve seen things that don’t jibe with your view of problem employees. People go from good to bad and vice versa. People who work with bad employees sometimes do like them personally and wish they would straighten up. People who go from bad employee to good employee often feel better about themselves and don’t backslide — if they’re not allowed to.

And few managers think they are gods; mostly we think we’re imperfect, struggling with difficult situations and hoping we don’t screw up too badly when we have to make a decision.

The points of the previous posts have been:

1. It may not be legal or wise to fire someone without warning. This means you have to DOCUMENT the person’s shortcomings. If previous managers haven’t been doing this, that was their failing.

2. You must give people a chance to reform. This is only fair. When the person’s job is on the line, s/he may change. I have seen it happen both ways.

3. If the person does not reform, *the person is then dismissed.* That is in total contradiction to your statement that the procedure only “entrenches the bad employee.”

The previous posters were not saying never get rid of the person. Just that you have to follow a procedure.

Chances are that the problem has been around for a while and the person never got challenged on the problem behavior. Managers generally don’t enjoy firing people.

The employee’s expectations have been implicitly set by the manager and the workplace. If the employee has not been warned or reprimanded, his or her performance is deemed acceptable by the employer by default.

Fire the manager!

In reply to The Messiah talks back

What all of you have missed is that someone did not do their homework. As a manager you should employ great interview skills, background searches, skills & personality testing that will flush out future problems before you make a bad hire. I have seen it often where not enough time or effort is invested during the hire then you find them spending time and money trying to cope, correct or “handle the problem” usually to no avail. My guess is that part of the reason for the behavior problems stem from past experiences (which you are only repeating),a very high ego (he probably knows that he is very proficient in his skills and somehow feels empowered by it), depending on the job environment it will only get worse with time and as others have said permeate a foul odor throughout the workplace. I don’t know of many jobs where a probation period does not exist. It should be made clear to all hires what is expected of them in terms of behavior from the onset and it is very hard for anyone to mask their behavior traits for 90 days. If you do make a mistake in the hire, swallow your ego, admit it and resolve the issue. Employess should be assets and a hire is a veruy important responsibility. Match the individual with the job. Interpersonal skills are not always required for all positions and testing will aid if not minimize the problem. Tracking the first 90 days is critical for a long term hire. If you don’t have the skills to do so. Let someone else more qualified screen/hire/train your hires.

know how you feel

In reply to That’s what’s wrong with you management types

First time I’ve ever posted a reply here – I was ‘inspired’ by this tale that is very close to home for me.

I agree that too often managers forget that the rude person is just one employee and they have to think about everyone else forced to put up with this person. I have been in a situation where I had to work with a rude bully and was told by my (and his) boss to just swear back at him. The bully was very smart technically and used this to scare management so they didn’t dare get rid of him in case they lost vital information. So before you get rid of your problem, make sure he isn’t hoarding information that you’ll miss when he’s gone. If you can’t do this, I’m sure it will still be easier to pick up the pieces than to handle the mass unrest in your area.

Saying that, it might be worth asking what is frustrating this person, because rudeness doesn’t come from nowhere. Most likely they are just frustrated in life generally and you won’t be able to change that, but there may be some issues that can be tackled that will leave them happier in themselves. As others have said though, you can’t afford to spend all your time focusing on this one person, and while trying to help them I think you have to make clear that their behaviour is unacceptable.

welcome Londongal

In reply to know how you feel

Everyone here is always happy to hear a new voice. 🙂

One thing that I really like about the TR discussions is that you can say things here that you want to say in work. And, having said something you can see what other people think. I find it very therapeutic and occassionally educational. 🙂

Welcome………. but

In reply to know how you feel

Most of us don’t have time to analyse employees let alone to try to help them (espec. if they are rude !! )
Easier in the long run to dismiss

MAy I Also have the Pleasure

In reply to know how you feel

Of welcoming you to our Tech Republic Family.
There are a lot of really great people here and as you go along, you’ll get to know them better and better. The beauty is the more you discover about them, the more you like them. I sure do.
We are truly good hearted individuals and cover a wide range of Computer interests, from Rebuilding to Programming to IT Work.
If I may, I would suggest the following.
“Never” allow yourself to feel that your question might be to immature or silly to ask for fear of being laughed at. Rest assured, that is Not our way.
No question is trivial and neither are the people who write in. We hold no one cheaply.
We take the questions very seriously and answer in accordance.
So Please;
Be Welcome and come back often.
Welcome Home Londongal. 😉
May your stay be a lengthy one.
Regards
Aaron 🙂

Asking questions

In reply to MAy I Also have the Pleasure

just to carry ur thoughts..i just remembered a very good phrase taught to me when I was in college….
A Chinese proverb “One who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; one who does not ask a question remains a fool forever”

So one should go ahead and have the Courage to know & Dare to ask

:)Well Said farooqjawaid ;)

In reply to MAy I Also have the Pleasure

Well said indeed.
Much better to be Dumb only for a little while than to live out your life in Darkness.
I really like the way this is put and have made note of it.
Thanks for the Post.
Regards
Aaron

Ever heard of Square Pegs

In reply to That’s what’s wrong with you management types

I used to be a guy like the one about which you speak.. If you have heard of Belbin http://changingminds.org/explanations/preferences/belbin.htm I guess the guy is a Plant and should be brought into a staffer role where he will be worth his weight in gold.. unless your org is totally beauracratic and doestn want change and improvement

Yes! Somebody who knows what he?s talking about.

In reply to That’s what’s wrong with you management types

Yes! Somebody who knows what he?s talking about. As supervisors and managers it is not our job to reform employees. We orientate, we train, we set standards and enforce policy, which most are set in place for mutual wellbeing, we monitor, report, etc but we are not physiologists, we don?t psycho analyses employees and we?re not redeemers. This has been a common fault among many supervisors and managers and not once have I seen it work. As I mentioned in a previous post, the stupid and incompetent you can contain and educate but a bad program you have to delete.

Government has programs …

In reply to Yes! Somebody who knows what he?s talking about.

I work for state government (not in IL, though), and we have a program for free counseling services for all employees. I would imagine that Illinois has something similar. If the original poster is the supervisor, he can suggest the counseling services to the employee. There should also be letters of expectation that are given to the employee, and signed by both supervisor and employee. If the position is union, good luck! At times, it takes an act of Congress to fire sometimes! As others have said, document, document, document.

yes it is.

In reply to Yes! Somebody who knows what he?s talking about.

Managers should manage people, if you fire him without trying you aren’t doing your job.

His work is good, his attitude bad.

Find out what the problem is and try to resolve it, if you can’t resolve it at least you have gone through the motions and documented it to mitigate unfair dismissal claims.

We have one of those

In reply to Yes! Somebody who knows what he?s talking about.

We have just such an employee in our mist. The company has sent him to anger management and over the last incident hired an arbitrator. Why? Because his supervisor is the enabler, like personalities, the problem is always the other persons fault. The way I look at it the company has CYOA with all the attempts to rehabilitate. When he backslides (and I too believe he will) the next step is HR. I refuse to be pushed out, this is his problem.

You may have a point

In reply to Yes! Somebody who knows what he?s talking about.

However, with an attitude like the one displayed here, I doubt that even I would pass your prerequisites for being helped along.
As a Superior, I will do whatever I can to encourage and coach a new person until they get the idea and meld in with everybody. Having said that, let it be known that have very little patience for arrogance and rudeness, regardless of which side of the fence it comes from.
While it is true that a Manager, or Team Leader is responsible for the eventual outcome of the given projects, it is also true that this gives him/her absolutely no rights to berate or in any way ride roughshod over a new employee.
If “As a Boss” you are not prepare to take the time, with out all the preconceived notions that seem ready to jump into gear as soon as this poor shmuck makes a mistake, I would venture to say that I would be most reluctant to accept your thinking or attitude as my Superior.
Having been in Business for well over 35 Years, I can state categorically that regardless of profession, People are still People and ALL like and Need to be treated with kindness and respect.
Oh by th way, I’ve brought back some really great Program That I was sure were dead in the water.
All it took was a little more patience and kindness than Usual.
No exceptions.
Regards
Aaron

Spoken like a true HR Rep

In reply to Re: I’d take a firmer hand

IN every company I have worked in only there to protect the company, not the employees. Your concern for this individual is how much the company has invested in him or the liability of the company if you fire him. There is no concern for the employees who have to work with him.

Total agreement

In reply to I’d take a firmer hand

We spend too much time concerned with keeping ppl happy.
Warn him, then dump him

Other foot

In reply to I’d take a firmer hand

I have to take the other side here. I have a personality that people think I’m being condescending or rude, when I truly don’t intend to come across that way. I have a friend that can say something truly rude and everyone thinks it’s cute, but if I say it, all heck breaks loose. Until my team leader told me that people thought I was being snotty, I really had no idea that I came across that way. I’ve had to go to great lengths and effort to not appear that way, especially since no one has really been able to tell me what it is that makes me come across this way. I’d say that otherwise I’m an excellent employee since I’ve always gotten the highest evaluation and praise, but this is an area that I obviously have to work very hard on, and is always a struggle for me.

Concur with mjd420nova

In reply to Wow Too rude

I can’t say it better than mjd420nova did. To reiterate:

1) Immediately sit down and talk to the problem employee. Explain the situation and the consequences if it continues. Define an action plan and a date for a re-evaluation.

2) Monitor the situation and discuss changes with the employee. Early on, this may need to be daily. Be sure to acknowledge all postivie changes. Expect that, as with any newly learned behavior, there will be some backsliding. Acknowledge these incidents as well.

3) At the stated review date, if there has not been substansive improvement, follow through with the state consequences, i.e., transfer or termination. If there has been noticeable improvement, establish a new plan and review date for continued improvement. At this point, however, less day-to-day oversight is necessary, though any significant and prolonged backsliding will need to be dealt with.

As a supervisor/manager you have responsibilities to both your staff and whomever your staff interacts with. You cannot ignore either one. It is not enough to say that your staff are adults and to let them go if they fail to meet your standards, but it is also not enough to ignore their actions. Dealing with a difficult employee is never enjoyable, but it is a necessary, high priority task. Good luck.

Terminate!

In reply to Wow Too rude

Great advice – here’s my take.

In my many years of management experience I have as of yet come across a rude employee (by nature) that was able to be successfully rehabilitated. On occasion you may have an employee loose grip of her/his composure (it happens) but the employee in question here is the habitual abuser. Much like a malicious code embedded into a program at the very least (by keeping her/him in check) it will rob your system of resources and if you?re the one damned to approach this individual you?re definitely inviting eternal resentment which will lead to counter politicking and maybe even sabotage and if you?re able to keep her/him in check think of the continued investment in resources spent over time ? not worth it. At the very least this person may be a stumbling block and at worst case scenario cost you your position or career. There are three basic triggers that justify termination; 1) Stupidity 2) incompetence and 3) corruption. The first two, stupidity and incompetence, may be effectively managed without termination if the recourses are available ? stupidity can be contained; there are many people with prized skills and work ethics that simply make stupid decisions but if we are able to contain them and safe guard them from hurting themselves and the company then you?re able to continue benefiting from their knowledge base and skill sets. As stupidity – incompetence can also be dealt with with education and training, again if the resources and time are available. On the other hand corruptibility is what the corrupt does and without a personal life changing experience the corrupt will remain corrupt. You can try containing the corrupt and the corrupt will seek ways of working around, under, over or through the containment ? you can try education and training and the corrupt will find an antidote. If you?re in the position of authority and have the support of HR and management then elect to terminate. On the other hand if you can?t stomach termination or an underlining conflict exist (the boss?s bother) then, to avoid a potential land mine, push for a collective intervention. Upon seeing that there?s a unified front this individual will find it difficult to seek support from peers (real or perceived) and won?t be able to single you out as the enemy – frustrated she/he may leave on his own accord.

Best of luck,

/\o/\

I fired one like this

In reply to Terminate!

I had an employee that was good technically but passive-aggressive rude. The little ‘digs’ etc. After being put on notice, I had him in is own words write – “What are the rights of a computer user. What can a user expect when the computer guy comes by”. His responce supplied enough to get him fired. (I had tried to fire him and HR down graded it to a probation.)

Being fired can help people to change and I hope he improves as a result.

We have one too!

In reply to Wow Too rude

We work in a government agency too and their a thing called seniority! When you get to a certain point in your career you’re pretty much untoucable. The supervisor has to document exactly what is happening and discuss the issues with the employee and also include HR. It’s very touchy situation. It has to be done and documented over time before any action can be taken. Our situation is improving….on some days. We wish you luck!

Consultant fired without warning! Please help

In reply to Wow Too rude

I was hired as a consultant in one of the top Newyork financial firm named after New York mayor. On a first day Project manager introduced other consultant who is a tech lead for a particular project. I was given a first assignment on open source project, tech lead did not even know basis of open source library and showing some crappy solutions to fix issues on a second day, I engaged in technical argument and proved him he wasn’t right several times, told him problem is very tough, need more time. On a contrary he told project lead that I was competent, arguable and hard to deal. They did not even talk to talk to me to discuss and fired me on 4th day of assignment? Can I take any legal action against this team?

Consultant fired without warning! Please help

In reply to Consultant fired without warning! Please help

Though unfortunate this sort of thing happens all the time. You mentioned that you were hired as a consultant, assigned first assignment in an open source project. Apparently you and the lead tech had a difference of opinion and perhaps your perceptive was superior to hers/his but the fact of the matter is that you weren?t the project manager or the lead tech and by arguing you may have spoken out of place. Maybe it wasn?t that you argued but your presentation was abrasive ? there is an artful way of presenting a point of view, how do you think crappy ones get bought into? As for having legal remedy; that depends on the contract, if any, you signed. Was the contract unilateral or bilateral? Did you participate in its final draft? Your best bet, if you wish to go forward with legal action, is to consult an attorney who specializes in labor disputes, and not rely on popular opinion. My advice is to do as told; when in Rome do as the Romans do. Also don?t be too quick (if applicable) to prove you?re right at the expense of dressing someone down, win or loose the argument you?ll loose your tenure and the prospect of future consideration.

Very well said

In reply to Consultant fired without warning! Please help

Argueing with your boss will only mean you will be looking for a new boss.

Some arguements are just not worth winning, and if you are going to make someone look bad, they will get rid of you ASAP.

You learned a hard lesson. sit down and shut up.

Point out politely possible problems, but remember that you are not the only person in the world with an answer that would/could work. Add input, but in the end, shut up and do your job.

I would bet there is a clause in your contract that allows them to fire you on these grounds. Better go back and re-read it.

Best bet is to move on as you already burned that bridge to the ground. Going to court would take years and cost you a lot of money and time.

of course you [b]can[/b]

In reply to Consultant fired without warning! Please help

but that doesn’t mean you should. You might not win, then where would you be? Out legal fees and a job. Sometimes the best thing is to just pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and move on to the next job. If the other guy’s as big an idiot as you think he is, it will likely become apparent soon enough. Maybe you can call the firm back in a few months to tell them “I told you so.”

Off Topic

In reply to Consultant fired without warning! Please help

Im not a moderator here but jeesh man, please stay on topic and help this user out or post your own thread. You’ve got a great question here but it’s lost in the context that was set well before your post.

Just say Hi!

In reply to Consultant fired without warning! Please help

Hi
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I am living in Edison NJ
I am also Engineer and MBA so you can expect Best rate and Value of your money
Shyam Patel
You can reach me @732-735-3625

We have one

In reply to The rude employee

She is openly rude, confrontational, demeaning, and generally a pain in the sphincter. But the boss (also a female) likes her. She has threatened to sue if she is fired, and I don’t think upper mgmt really cares about her attitude as long as she does her job. I get to support her computer problems. Not that the computer really has problems, but she is so monolithically bullheaded that a minor misunderstanding of MS Word gets blown into apocalyptic proportions, and I’m an idiot that can’t understand the issue and why isn’t it fixed already, and why am I wasting her time with this crap, and get her someone who knows what he’s doing.

Whee. Want fries with that, you stupid b#tch? I swear, there is no one around here that even approaches her level of offensiveness. I hate working with “golden children” that can’t be fired.

Lawsuit? Urban myth.

In reply to We have one

Everybody likes to talk about filing a lawsuit if this or that happens. I remember when I was a little kid we would threaten a lawsuit whenever something happened that we didn’t like. Either that or we’d put the other person in the hospital. Neither threat ever happened. I wonder how those ideas even occurred to eight year olds. Must’ve gotten it from someplace. Probably some idiot parents.

The theory that has been expressed to me many times behind large bureaucratic organizations hesistating to get rid of bad employees is the threat of a lawsuit. What a load of c–p. Actually I’ve got a theory. I call it The Theory of The Hired Gun. This applies to your situation, gralfus.

You see, there are some managers that would like to be mean and rude, but don’t want to be considered mean and rude. So, they hire someone that will do their dirty work. They get to see people being treated badly without being blamed. Everyone always says something like “I don’t know why the manager puts up with . The manager is such a nice person.” Well, maybe the manager is really a sociopath that exercises his/her dysfunction by proxy through the bad employee.

I’ve seen this in numerous situations. It is too common to think that it is just a coincidence. So, gralfus, your real problem is the manager that “likes” the rude employee. She is really on the same team as the employee that causes problems. They work together to create a hostile work environment.

Systems analysis doesn’t just apply to computers.Social groups are also systems.

Urban Myth? Not in the UK!

In reply to Lawsuit? Urban myth.

Sadly “unfair dismissal” laws in the UK mean that you need to be very careful when sacking someone. There is a formal sequence of steps you need to go with if you are not to run the risk of a claim for unfair dismissal.

One of my friends, a Senior HR sepcialist, recommends clients pay off a claimant up to ?4-6000 to end potential legal action, as this will be cheaper than the cost of even a successful defence.

Some employees can claim legal aid or get no-win no-fee assistance. It usually costs very little to make a claim. There have been recent attempts to charge costs to claimants who launch what are called “vexatious” claims I believe, but I’m not sure how they went.

And this is no urban myth. I personally know of a sales rep who was called in to a disciplinary interview for fiddling her expenses. She waited in the car park afterwards and attempted to run over her manager in the company car.

She was of course dismissed, but won a claim and compensation for unfair dismissal because the company had not followed correct procedure.

It’s a mad, sad but true world sometimes.

Not in the US Either…

In reply to Urban Myth? Not in the UK!

I don’t think the person was saying that it is an Urban Myth that an employee will sue, but rather that the “fear of lawsuit” was just an excuse by a manager who really likes (and backs) the abusive employee.

The U.S. has laws too, which is why one of the replies correctly stated to speak with the employee, set a plan to correct the problem, monitor, document, then fire if necessary. I’ve seen companies sued many times. In fact, one an employee I terminated sued the company stating that I was discriminating against her because she was pregnant. Unfortunately for her, I documented the problems AND one of her co-workers was pregnant as well — I didn’t terminate that person.

At-will employment in Florida

In reply to Not in the US Either…

Even though the US has quite a few federal laws, this type of scenario is usually handled at the state level. Here in Florida “at-will” employment is common, meaning when you’re hired, you usually sign a statement saying there is no binding contract of employment and either side can terminate the employment “without cause” as long as its not done discriminately. The boss can walk up to you any day & just say “This isn’t working out. We’re letting you go.” He does not have to justify himself or the company. No documentation is required saying why you’re fired, or that you’ve been counseled and given opportunities to improve, etc. You can still sue the employer for wrongful termination, but the burden of proof to even get it heard in court is totally on you. You would have to show overt discrimination, an extremely hostile work environment, or similar. Very tough but seems to work quite well here.

On the flip side, as an HR & IT manager, I know what it costs to terminate & replace an employee. I almost always recommend trying to correct an employee’s performance instead of replacing them, due to the costs involved. If supervisors and mid-level managers are doing their jobs of giving feedback to employees on how they’re doing on a regular basis, not on an annual evaluation, then these scenarios a very rare. When they do, its almost always a management problem. Co-workers often compound the situation by NOT talking to management enough about it, or going to the next level if the problem is mid-level. If a manager hears enough complaints from enough people, eventually it will sink in there is a real problem that needs attention. Just my $.02 as every company has its own environment & culture.

at-will employee

In reply to At-will employment in Florida

So you are saying at-will employees have no rights and that employer decided one day that she does not like you and she can just terminates you?

California is the same way…

In reply to at-will employee

Simply stated, there is no binding contract between the employee and the company that states the duration of the employment. I think that this type of arrangement forces employers and employees to talk to each other. If an employee doesn’t feel empowered to talk to his manager, he should talk to his HR representative.

Talk about what

In reply to at-will employee

getting a contract where BOTH parties have some obligations ?
How do you get loyalty or respect, that bit extra effort out of a person on such a contract.

Offer nothing, get nothing in return, damn stupid.

Anyone on such a contract is a serf, pure and simple, at the complete mercy of their landlord. Probably the only reason it sort of works, is you are allowed to have guns.

Rights

In reply to at-will employee

Of course you have rights. Anything in your employment contract is enforcable (read and agree before you sign). They also cannot fire you for a legally discriminatory reason (because you reached 40, because you became pregnant, etc.). Otherwise, yes; unless your employment contract says they must have just cause to terminate you, they can fire you because you wore an ugly tie, because you have bad breath, because they don’t like the political bumper sticker on your car, etc.

Of course, people who do their job to the best of their ability and maintain a friendly air with their co-workers normally don’t have to worry about it.

Serf?

In reply to at-will employee

Sorry, nobody is forcing you to work there.

“…getting a contract where BOTH parties have some obligations”

You produce usable work, the employer produces usable money. Those are the main obligations (there are some things that may be subject to state and federal laws that are also obligations).

If you want something else, negotiate it and get it put into the contract. This is normally done before employment begins but if you are particularly good at what you do, you can probably do it anytime.

Nobody is forcing you to work ?

In reply to at-will employee

When I left school, real unemployment was running at about 5 million in the UK. I started my career at 18 on a welfare to work program, it gave me and extra sixty pence a week.

So save the capitalist ‘morality’ play for someone else, I know who gets both sides of their bread buttered with deals like at will employment.

Serfdom, been there, done that, didn’t like it.

Tony, receiver of capital others earn

In reply to at-will employee

The only reason there is any capital at all for socialist governments to redistribute is the (partially) free, selfish pursuit of capital, protected by laws that guarantee that nobody can legally be coerced to work: in other words, it is “deals like at will employment” that are responsible for the ability of the masses to exist at all. Communism is not good for the populace!

Capital is the accumulation

In reply to at-will employee

of the sweat off our brows. Who made the rule that 5% of the population could benefit from 95% of that accumulation.

They did didn’t they.

I wouldn’t cite communism particularly the russian and chinese experiments as an alternative to capitalism. I had democracy in mind.

Take the blinkers off for a minute, and think about what it would be like if you got rewarded for the value you add, not a split of what slops out the trough when the providers of capital have had a good wallow.

So who…

In reply to at-will employee

owes you employment and why?

slops out the trough

In reply to at-will employee

Under at will employment, if you think you’re not getting a big enough piece of the pie, you are free to go somewhere else and try there. On the other hand if you go to several places and are still not satisfied, you’re probably not as valuable as you think you are.

You’d be a lot better off without these

In reply to at-will employee

assumptions of yours.

Nobody owes me employment. They owe me money for my labour and respect for my ability.

But if you want respect, you show it
If you want dedication you reward it
and if you want loyalty you give it.

An at will contract implies non of these things, yet you find the c***s who write them up, expect all of these things in return for mere money.

Value is indicated by them wanting you to stay, not by them passing up the opportunity to let you go !

The price you guys are willing to pay for the american dream is flat out scary sometimes.

That’s just it.

In reply to at-will employee

I don’t “pay a price”. I get what I’m worth (and as it happens, I’m worth what I get, so everybody’s happy).

Must be a cultural thing,

In reply to at-will employee

you’d have a real hard time with an attempt to do it in the UK.
Do it in France and they’d bring back Madame Guillotine.

Maybe both you and the french are extremists.

Only a successful person could make it in such an environment, that’s the price, every one fails sometime.

Hopkinson: Which assumptions? Of whose?

In reply to at-will employee

“The price you guys are willing to pay for the american dream is flat out scary sometimes.”

What scares you is the price I am [b]not[/b] willing to pay, and to whom I am unwilling to pay it: you. I exist by right, not by your favor, and I’m not helping you to pretend otherwise.

Seems to work quite well here ?

In reply to At-will employment in Florida

How, I’ve never heard something so stupid in all my life.

What do they call leaving places like this manumission?

At-will employment states

In reply to At-will employment in Florida

I work in one too. However, you still need to document everything so that you aren’t sued for some kind of discrimination. Every company that I’ve worked for has required the documentation before terminating an employee. I’ve seen many people sue the company claiming some kind of discrimination. In every case where there was not enough documentation of the poor performance, attempts at corrective action, etc., the company settled out of court to save themselves the hassle.

And don’t sit on your hands any longer . . .

In reply to Not in the US Either…

The rude behavior may be a sign of current or developing mental illness. I worked with a young man who was so rude to callers on our help desk that I’d cringe every time he got a call. He point-blank refused to learn the skills I’d been assigned to teach him. I was dismayed, but this was a “body shop” government contract and management was more concerned about replacing him than how he treated the customers. After all, they always doctored the numbers so the customer looked satisfied.

Finally he sought help for his mental problems. He informed HR, and from then on the contracting company was terrified to do anything as it was already a frequent defendent in a number of high-profile employment-related lawsuits (partly due to its size and partly due to its exploitative and greedy practices). Finally the young man left for another job where he was promptly dismissed after his probationary period.

Outwit her

In reply to We have one

Has she sworn or been overtly demeaning to junior staff? If so explain very politely to her, and then if she ignores you to her Boss, you will not accept her talking to your staff that way. Make sure senior management & HR are involved. Force her to apologise to the member of staff. The longer it goes on the more she thinks she can get away with it.

If she persists and HR / Management refuse to deal with it then apologise whenever she calls and say unfortunately due to her behaviour none of your staff are willing to deal with her. You will of course attend to her personally but you are right in the middle of a server upgrade/ fixing an important system etc. you can deal with it tomorrow.

Pop by at 6pm (or if you feel brave 2 minutes before she goes home) and drop a note on her desk that you looked at it, but as she wasn’t there you couldn’t resolve it. You will pop back tomorrow after the you have resolved the other XYZ problems. Alternatively wait until you know she is busy with deadlines and pounce.

Keep this up for a few days, reminding her politely the published SLA for resolving minor problems is 3 days, make sure you just manage to fix it before the SLA expires.

Make sure she always books a call on the system and you keep it well updated to show how hard you tried to resolve it.

She will either realise she is stuck and start being nice or she will complain and you can explain why your staff refuse to support her to HR and point out to her boss how hard you tried to resolve it.

Remote control such as VNC or similar is also a godsend, you just ring her up on handsfree, take over the machine and start a conversation with someone else about a suitably urgent and important matter, ignore her as you are too busy to talk to someone so rude.

Of course have a peek round her machine for any banned software or files while you are on it. Mail asking her to remove them, copy in her boss & HR. If she caused the original problem by loading ‘My Little Kitten’ screensaver etc note it on the call.

It shouldn’t be necessary to “outwit” if there is a real problem.

In reply to Outwit her

If this employee is really a problem, you start with [b]the others[/b] who say they are “intimidated” to talk to the “rude employee”. Tell them to report any “intimidating” behavior immediately, and to be specific. Once complaints are specified, they will either be valid (in a court of law, if necessary), or the complaints were frivolous all along, and your other employees are the real problems.

First hand assertion she is a problem

In reply to It shouldn’t be necessary to “outwit” if there is a real problem.

According to the post She is a problem (first hand experience), she is protected by her manager.

All you can do is make sure you protect yourself and encourage her to change or expose herself.

If she had intimidated my staff I would make sure it had happened and I would deal with it, thats what I get paid the big bucks for. No way a decent boss would ask their staff to tackle someone like this alone, if it were between just two I might try using mediation and bring the two together in front of me.

But my suggestions above have worked very well for me before.

“encourage her to change or expose herself”

In reply to First hand assertion she is a problem

You would have major problems with any HR department if you made that suggestion.

Ever tried crying?

In reply to Outwit her

Women never see this one coming! When she gives you sh_t, just turn on the waterworks and start talking about your feelings. Say stuff like “oh you’ve made me feel so awful.” and “oh I’m so upset now, I think I need to go out and get some air.”(sniffsniff) Trust me, she’ll have absolutely no idea what to do.

Document her actions and then do something

In reply to We have one

Document everything she does and says. Tell her to leave the room if she is distracting you from doing your job. Consult with HR above her supervisors head and file a formal complaint. Document everything that she and her managers do and say to you that is offensive and file a harrassment suit against the company if they do not comply with a performance eval and conduct action plan. The bottom line is that you need to be professional. You need to quit worrying about whether or not you’re wrong. You need to just do your job and coordinate the direction of stress to its proper corporate recepticle – the HR department. Don’t give in to the bullies at work, you are protected by Federal Laws if in the US so even a right to work state has no precidence over a harrassment suit. Support your claim with dates, times, quotes, etc and show her that you are documenting it because it is interfering with your work and with the company’s payroll/productivity. Root out the trash in your company by just not letting these things get in your way.

Now, if this is not possible, i.e. you are unwilling, then just suck it up. Bring her chocolates, lay on your best BS for her and smootch up cuz she owns you and so does her boss. Then if you get a chance put a keylogger on her machine and track what she does; find any emails or memos that are offensive and allow copies of that stuff to get to the upper management or better yet post them in a public place for everyone to see. These two will stand out like sore thumbs after a while of this. Use your technical skills to thwart their bullish psudo-feministic behavior. A real feminist has talent and a competitive spirit; yet she is still a nurturing woman. These two are just bulls who need to go back to square one and learn how to play nice in the play ground.

Watch this Guy

In reply to The rude employee

In Gov,yes is common.
(not usually found in the private sector),
Rudeness is a tool used to coverup activitie’s one should not be doing.
Is sad, but iv’e seen this many times.
Best you “hunker down” and CYA til he’s cought, cought he will, just takes time/persistance.
Hang in there, retirement benifments are best to keep.

I’m perplexed too ?

In reply to The rude employee

I don’t know whether it’s a real situation or not, that is are the one’s complaining, are they the one’s that are trying to get the “rude” employee to do their work for them ? You’d be surprised who doesn’t know how to use MS Office beyond simple data entry skills. In that case, I don’t blame the guy for being rude, he’s probably just standing firm and making the complainer/whiner try to do something on their own for a change. There’s an awful lot of people that’ll watch the clock for you too, even though they aren’t your supervisor or boss.

Ask yourself why

In reply to The rude employee

If you want to change this person’s behaviour, you must find out what is behind it.

Nobody wants people to dislike them, so nobody deliberately behaves in a way that will cause dislike. Behaviour like this is caused by something that is making them so unhappy, which they feel powerless to do something about, that the unhappiness leaks out in their interactions with other people. If you get to know them, you may be able to get them to open up to you. Then you may be able to help them deal with it.

If you can’t be bothered doing that, but you just want to get on with them, you must behave like an adult. When they are rude to you, say clearly and firmly “That’s very rude” or “Don’t be so rude to me”. If they are agressive say “Stop bullying me”. When they realise that they are having an effect on other people, it makes them stop and re-assess their behaviour.

Putting up with their behaviour makes you a victim. Complaining to their boss makes you a whiner and a victim. Retaliating makes you a child and a victim.

When a boss, who had haressed a colleague so much that he took early retirement to get away, became my line manager, I was really worried. I had been really badly bullied at school, and for all I knew I was still an easy mark for bullys. The first time the guy had a go at me, I looked directly in his eyes and said in a loud, firm voice, “don’t bully me”. His attitude changed at once. He began treating everyone better, with respect. From that point on he treated me as a friend, right up to the day he left.

And I guess I was a friend to him, by pointing out the thing he needed to know, where change was needed. Only a friend would do that.

Partial agreement

In reply to Ask yourself why

I don’t know tha no one wants to be disliked or though poorly of, but I do know that a number of people simply lack the social skills required to manuever through a work environment without coming across as unpleasant. Some people can learn the social skills, some people can not.

However–I heartily agree that identifying the behavior and not accepting it is a good move. Both from the boss and the co-workers. I try those approaches before resorting to work-arounds. If the co-workers don’t confront this individual about his behavior, the manager is going to be hard pressed doing so successfully.

About those social skills

In reply to Partial agreement

Something I have seen here is a lack of awareness of a possible disability. There is a disabling condition called Asperger’s Syndrome which affects primarily male humans and was once called “High functioning Autism”. Asperger’s does affect social skills learning as the sufferer does not know or understand the social cues for a “socially responsible” response. It just might be cheaper in the long run for this individual to have a company sponsered screening for the syndrome. In fact, Wired Magazine had a 50 question test in the December 2001 issue which could be a pre-screen for diagnosis. A neuro-typical (normal) will score on average a 16 on the test. Many diagnosed and undiagnosed Asperger’s sufferers score over 32. If the individual who inspired the initial article in this thread could be challenged to take the Wired test, it might wake him up to smell the coffee.

I was that problem employee once.

In reply to Ask yourself why

I would agree with Chaz. Ask yourself why this is happening. Look behind the behavior to find a possible cause. See a bigger picture.

Many years ago, I was in the position of being that employees with the rudeness problem. I was short with people and had a low tolerance for what I thought of as “user stupidity”.

My employer sent me to a class to learn better people skills. (The fact was that I already had the skills, but did not use them) The class did not help.

But it did make me think about my behavior and I looked for patterns in it. I discovered that my “instability” was caused by my eating habits. As a thin person, I did not have much reserves, and although I was not a diabetic, my moods would swing wildly depending on what time of day it was and what and how much I had eaten. (sugar levels, etc.)

Once I straightened out my eating habits, the problem went away.

So the point is:
1. That there may be other issues causing the behavior.

2. Even though we are all adults, NO, we cannot always see our own behavior from the “inside”.

I agree with Wayne M.

In reply to The rude employee

I agree completely with Wayne M.

So my advice is, please as a manager try to understand the character of other people and the reasons they don?t feel comfortable or rude. Of course if the character is rude nothing could be done, than to explain that you keep other kind of treatment between each other. Other case it is much easier because it is a question of misunderstandings and it is better to clarify it on time.

good timing

In reply to I agree with Wayne M.

I had the, um, privilege of telling someone in a design meeting yesterday to ‘back off, you are being offensive’. Went over like a lead balloon. Got pulled into the office later by my manager; thought I was going to get a lecture, but instead received support.

Anyway…
It is possible that someone is going on in that person’s life. Get to know him a little.

Having said that – if you are level headed, punch back! If not, remember, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Drunken Monkey, kindness, alternating passive and aggressive responses, prayer, confusion, Jedi, may the force be with you, mind meld, donuts, have lunches but forget to invite him, sic a couple of catty women on him. My wife calls them ‘my bag of tricks’.

Oops. I am in a mood. Oh, yes, I forgot. Smile and have a great sense of humor!

For the good of the Department

In reply to The rude employee

It does not take long until the tendency to not work with Mr Rude, extends to general dissatisfaction with you and your department. Save your self! Either stick him where he can do his job with out interacting with the users, or follow your HR procedures to get rid of him, while it can still make a difference in the way users relate to you and the dept.

Had to do this years ago

In reply to For the good of the Department

The guy had no social skills, poor hygene, and really creeped the women out the way he would look at them.

He found himself locked in a room all day. A computer would break, someone would go grab it and give it to mr. anti-socal who would then fix it. When it was done, someone would take the system back.

He was eventually let go because the bosses finally decided they didn’t need to take abuse from an employee either.

Distance yourself from this person!

Ever notice

In reply to Had to do this years ago

That no one admits to being that person!

They often don’t know themselves.

In reply to Ever notice

It’s true. They often don’t realise they are being rude. Maybe it’s a lack in their upbringing. That’s why the confrontation approach often works.

Course of Action as a Manager

In reply to For the good of the Department

I have read a lot of interesting and intellegent suggestions to this thread.

Its a very very serious issue and the Manager have to act very promptly to these type of situations. My suggestion would be as follows:
1. Confirm the validity of complaints and write up the employee for unprofessional problems without any further delays.
2. Provide HR information about employees behavioural issues and request help.
3. Ask HR to provide him professional training (pl. don’t try yourself) Training should be immediately completed after the write up.
4. After succesful training strictly monitor the employee for any behaviour issues. If the employee is interested in the job his behaviour will change. Keep monitoring the change and make sure it is permanent change. If the employee goes back to his usual behaviour dont waste your time immediately make the right decision in showing him the way out of the door. I strongly believe if you take this course of action your problem will be resolved and you will gain the confidence of your employees and management.

Good luck!

Dealing with rude employee

In reply to The rude employee

Have you verbally discussed his problem? If yes, & no improvement then the next step is to make him verbally apologize to the individual(s) to which he was rude & a written apologize. Once he has to face up to his faults, he will soon find that he doesn’t like doing that & will quit the job or will try to quit being rude or you’ll have to write him up till he’s terminated. You can’t help those that don’t want to help themselves. Either work together or get out. Good Luck.

Well said

In reply to Dealing with rude employee

Unfortunately most managers tend to sweep things like this under the rug due to long time loyalty, affordable pay or talent niche. What they don’t realize (choose to ignore) are the negative effects that ripple throughout the team and company.

Not so simple, time to play politician.

In reply to The rude employee

It’s time for a sit down. Almost a psuedo interview. You don’t want to accuse the employee of anything, what you do want to get is this employee to tell you basically what they like and dislike about their job. Find out if something is bothering them. If the employee brings up the topic or if you feel the need, you can discuss the reports of “rudeness” without naming anyone.

Whether or not your emplyee accepts it as fact or fiction, you can exaplain that it is the perception of your customer base that is causing this and you need this employee to adjust.

Perhaps give some pointers yourself without targeting actual flaws. Use your best communications skills to get this person to understand that there is a negative image people are experiencing and it is having a negative impact on the environment.

Be clear, be factual, be precise but most of all be nice. If this person exhibits the same “rudeness” towards you, then you can use that as a “classic example” scenario.

The end goal is to come to a working agreement with this employee, a career goal or path to improved performance. Set your expectations clearly and come to an agreement on how to meet them. Don’t forget to let this person know that you require a change.

You’ll have to surf this one according to your own management skills to see where you can lean a little harder and where you need to let up a little but the end result needs to be what your expectations are for this person to perform their duties and what the consequences are. Then make a deal and stick to your guns. this doesn’t have to be a do or die situation, give it an escalation path with the absolute end (no improvement shown after amount of reports or amount of months or what ever) then casually follow up with the user community to see if there is progress, schedule regular meetings along the way with this employee to see how they are doing.

Encourage the positive, and on the negative, remind this individual of “The Deal” and “The consequences.” In the end, you will end up with the type of employee you really want or really don’t want and you can take it from there.

Hope that helps, this isn’t a golden rule, just some advise, take it for what it’s worth, you may agree with some of this or not or all of it. Either way, different people need different management in different cases, ultimately it’s up to you to get this person to improve if that is indeed your desire. Give it a shot, it won’t hurt and if not for anything else, you should come out knowing a bit more about this person and what you really need to do.

Not sure why this is difficult

In reply to The rude employee

I see this with a lot of companies I work with and it has forever been a mystery. Coping with people like this is merely a bandaid to what the real decision is – three strikes and you’re out. I don’t care how good an employee is, if he or she can’t get along with others and is miserable to work with, why can’t they just be let go? It boggles the mind…there will be other employees to fill the void, ones that can be embraced and genuinely liked by others.

Is he actually rude … or just refuses to differ to “special treatment”?

In reply to The rude employee

The difference may be minor, but could explain the complaints.

I have been in situations where some staff members had come to expect concessions (in use of employee time, skills or attention) which were not part of the job skill neither set nor offered to all staff. While it may be a fact of office politics that a little butt-kissing is offered, it still sets a bad precedent when some follows guidelines and enforces documented policy. A strict interpretation of policy may be inconvenient, as well as easily mis-interpreted as being “rude”.

It is good to have a smooth running office, workplace … but to characterize efficiency or possibly reserved character traits as rudeness is unfair. I trust, as the manager of this individual, you have listened to “both” sides of the complaint? There are few Neanderthals still roaming the earth, example: some men who were chivalrous, open doors, lift heavy packages, offer complements to females – have become confused in how to react to current unwritten aspects of social interaction. As such the niceties have become a casualty of casual day-to-day interaction.

So, the question is whether the “rudeness” rises to the level of “hostility” or aura of refusal to perform within the guidelines of his positions. The issue “may” not be the employee. Your intervention may be an attempt to apply pressure, force the employee to bend the rules or operate outside his own comfort zone.

Be careful how you react; facts are actionable, perceptions are or can be/ should be managed. In documented cases where the employee is hostile, you should intervene; have HR suggest anger management classes or you take the time to explain how his current behavior is being perceived. At the same time, get to the bottom of why they feel he is being rude, is this a common perception; or is it localized to a certain definable groups of employees? The answer to that question may lead you to what actions, if any, you should take as well as where the actual problem lies.

Make a plan and work it fairly

In reply to Is he actually rude … or just refuses to differ to “special treatment”?

The existence of the rude employee isn’t new to business.
They’ve been around since the beginning of business itself.
When you have to deal with a person who is openly rude or
hostile to others, make a plan on how to deal with it and ensure
that you are being fair to all parties involved. There are always
two sides to the story.

Prior to beginning this process it’s a good idea to speak with
your HR department to get up to date information on what
options you have within the scope of your company’s policies.
Aside from clarification in your plan of action, also determine
how much time you can appropriately spend on this issue. You
don’t want to be consumed with one issue as you probably have
tons of other obligations as well. A rude employee shouldn’t
dominate all of your mental time or the time you need to spend
doing your other tasks or dealings with your non-problematic
employees.

Part of this plan should include speaking to the employee in a
non-threatening way and also speaking to his/her coworkers to
see if they are experiencing the same issues. I have found in
several cases that one employee reports another as rude or
hostile, but that they are the only one that sees it this way.
Again, be fair and do your research. Let the chips fall where
they may.

When you meet with the allegedly hostile employee, document
what you discussed, document your recommendations and be
sure that the employee understands what you’re asking them to
do. Set a review date to follow up with the employee and
monitor the behavior in the office/department to see if you can
observe any changes.

At the review, document whether the employee has made
progress or not, give them some recommendations and set
another review date. Your goal is to do this enough times that
you either assist the employee in modifying their behavior or
satisfy your HR depertment’s documentation requirements for
termination.

Finally, don’t allow the “threat” of a lawsuit dissuade you from
doing the right thing. The right thing in this case is to identify
the problem, help the employee take corrective action or
terminate him/her and fill the seat with someone who wants to
do the job and can get along with others. If you’ve followed
your HR department guidelines there is no real “threat” in a
lawsuit.

Use policy

In reply to The rude employee

Most companies or agencies have policies that promote a productive workplace free of harassment which includes shouting and abusive language and demands respect for authority by following the established chain of command. Learn to use the policy.

I inherited an employee that fits the personality and skills that you described. He constantly lost his temper and angered our Director’s, bringing discredit to my department and other staff members. He also tried to micromanage and intimidate his peers.

To regain control, I had to use our progressive discipline plan which gives him a verbal notice of policy violation and insubordination — documented in writing — and a written notice with an improvement plan agreement. The next step was suspension without pay and finally termination.

After the written notice, our employee realized that he was wrong and started complying with the improvement plan. All I had to do is monitor his actions and work with him to let him know his progress — or lack thereof.

Today, a year later, you can tell by his expression that he is still angered occassionally, but he has amazingly learned to control his actions. His anger quickly turns to a smile and cooperative mode.

It is amazing what good policy, a little counciling, and lot of effort on a manager’s part can do make a problem employee a great employee.
If the employee is as skilled and concensious as you indicate, that employee is worth the time and effort it takes to mentor the employee through anger management.

sounds like my former boss

In reply to The rude employee

No people skills on the job.

When asked a question, he would answer rudely if he thought it was stupid.

Yep…warn and give a chance to clean up his act…document any other infractions…dump if he persists….good plan someone mentioned.

I have had other staff

In reply to The rude employee

Misinterpret my technical team’s approach as “rude”. In working through that, I discovered that “rude” was defined as “talking down” or “acting superior”. What I knew about the person was that it was a self defense mechanism.

I talked with both parties. We all agreed that it was important to maintain positive behaviour in the workplace. We also agreed that personal traits are exactly that- personal. My tech agreed to make an effort to try a better interpersonal approach, the other staff person was willing to provide positive feedback and be more understanding. In the end, that staff person became a real advocate for the technical staff.

When i hear complaints of rudeness, I have to ask myself what is REALLY happening. If I see rudeness displayed, I take the offending person into a private space and discuss how they are coming across. In most cases, the individual simply has no idea of how they are being perceived.

Of course, if it is a continuing issue, more definitive action is required.

The rude employee

In reply to The rude employee

Joe, The Labor Laws differ from state to state. As Op Mgr of a large employee leasing company, I have the priviledge of working with a variety of personalities. Most state agencies have a protocol that is to be followed when dealing with it’s worker’s. Regardless, they should follow the State Labor Laws. Private employers sometimes have more latitude than state agencies is terminating employees. Check with your state labor commissioner or the HR department for your rules. In my experience as a former state worker and manager, sometimes the rude behavior is not work related at all, it comes from personal issues. Stick to the facts of the case and keep any personal feelings out of the issue. Good Luck.

“He had this problem at a previous job..”?

In reply to The rude employee

Hrm, that’s a very telling statement right there. Seems to me this is more of the same behaviour by someone who doesn’t want to change. Obviously, it does need to be researched further, to ascertain exactly what the issues are. If the same complaints were lodged, and he had been spoken to previously about this same behaviour, it’s time for him to hit the bricks. I have seen one person’s behaviour bring down the morale of a whole department because it was tolerated by management. Good luck.

I was accused of being rude.

In reply to The rude employee

I record many service calls on my MP3 palyer to document my activities for weekend support. After enduring flying F bombs from a construction supervisor in the field, I told him I was forwarding him on to my Supervisor. I had him on tape and I let him know exactly what was going on.

If I hadn’t had my MP3 player, I would have been fired. I was professional and had just told someone something they didn’t want to hear. “It’s a PC, you need to reboot.” (I can’t reboot I won’t be able to commit my time report). “You have lost your wireless connection, You should re-establish connection, and to do that you will need to reboot.” (@)(*#$)(*@# You!!!)

I was told that it was illegal to record this fellow without telling him. I pointed out I am in Ohio and there was no need to tell him, and that I could record the conversation legally. I was asked to destroy the .wav file, which I did from my Company PC, but not from my personal MP3 player. When the complaint came up at my review, I tagged the file to the review and returned it to upper management.

Without evidence, I would have taken the pipe up alongside the noggin. As it was, I substituted someone else’s head for mine in the path of the swing…

That’s completely different.

In reply to I was accused of being rude.

I think that joe.woodward@… is talking about someone whose default everyday behavior is to be verbally violent to everyone. In your case you were not guilty of the accusation. But, more importantly to this conversation, even if you had been guilty of one incident that would not put you in the class of people that we’re talking about. Everyone has a bad day. Employers are wise to overlook an uncharacteristic incident and in my experience they generally do. That’s good for everyone and for the business itself. It is good for employee morale if they know that a single indiscrete act will not cost them their job. And if someone does have a bad moment in business and it is not held against them then that person will often be somewhat grateful that the business management allows for people to be human.

This conversation is really about sociopaths. People who are vicious to everyone every day with no provocation.

So, you weren’t guilty in the first place and even if you were it would have been unreasonable for your employer to terminate your employment for uncharacteristic behavior. Unless you punch the CEO in the nose. That might not be overlooked so easily. 🙂

Well, Since the staff has been trimmed several times,we are leaner and mean

In reply to That’s completely different.

Emphasis on the mean. I had 36 hours at 10:00 A.M.
We routinely work 10 -15 hour days on Salary. Older people have been forced out of the company (involuntary retirement) as soon as they hit ~50. If you don’t have 30 years with the company where thsy will cover retirement bennies to age 65. 75 points is mandatory for retirement 1 for each year of age and two for each year of service. At 55 with 10 years of service you get 15% anual salary for example. at 30 years you get 40% salary.

The company is very close to systematically eliminating those who will be qualified to get the 75 points but be more than 5 years away from retirement.

I took a lower paying job to get the better retirement. I see the pattern, I keep my head low. I try to keep a low profile…

I see the blood in the water, but I keep my skills sharp and make ertain I am on everything new that comes out if I can help it…

leaner and meaner equals ?

In reply to Well, Since the staff has been trimmed several times,we are leaner and mean

Ah yes, today’s corporate culture should take [i]some[/i] of the blame for rudeness in the workplace. When top management is boasting of becoming “leaner and meaner”, doesn’t that send a signal that “meanness” (i.e., rudeness) is acceptable? When cutthroat competition (among employees, not just against competitors) becomes the norm, is it any surprise that some throat-cutting takes place? While there will always be some psycho employees who are just naturally rude, I think today’s business culture is [i]encouraging[/i] aggressive, anti-social behavior.

It means that after I fix a problem and test it…

In reply to leaner and meaner equals ?

I send an email documenting the fix. I send the person an email letting them know it is fixed. I used to go to their desk to demonstrate the fix, now I email or call.

I used to investigate their PCs now I pass it back to the helpdesk. That peeves off the helpdesk as they need to keep their problem queues clear…

Have you talked to the employee

In reply to The rude employee

You are a new manager and you have an employee who people complain is rude. Are these same people willing to put their complaint in writing so that you can bring it to his attention.

In the 80’s I was probably considered the rude guy in a government agency, my job was to usher in personal computers to the staff. Most of the staff was using VT100 terminals at the time and as they received a personal computer were required to attend a training session for half a day to learn the differences. Most of the secretaries and the clerical staff came in and picked up the booklet provided and then proceeded to use the systems without training or reading the booklet. Then in the following weeks would barrage me with problems that they created by not reading the information or attending the sessions. At that time IT support was low man on the totem pole not much more than the mail delivery guy. I had two secretaries that would constantly call that they had lost their documents, no matter how many times I tried to show them how to save to the central server, they would misfile their documents. I got tired of dropping something else more important to run to their aid and locate the missing documents and again show them how to file.

At last my manager called me in to tell me that I was recieving complaints, and when he listened to my side of the story went to the two secretaries bosses to reveal how they were repeatedly calling for the same issue and disrupting our rollout of new PCs to other employees.

My advice to you is talk to the employee and apprise him of the fact that you are receiving complaints. Get his side of the story to explain his surliness. If he can not give a good accounting for his behavior inform him that you are going to document the discussion and place it on his personnel file. Usually this entails a letter signed by both you and the employee with a review period set. If the employee does not improve his behavior then you have the right to approach HR and request councelling for the employee, with the beginnings for dismall for just cause being filed.

As I have been a Union officer, I can tell you these are the proper steps under any Union agreement or state agreement to terminate an employee for just cause.

My biggest point to you is not to get stressed about this employee but to talk to him and get his side of the complaint. Many managers will transfer an employee as being rude without finding out that the complainant might be the one who is the problem. You say the employee has good work habits, what is it about him that leads you to believe that he is intentionally rude. I know that to a lot of people I appear standoffish and rude but it is not my fault, I do suffer from a physical disability that makes it difficult for me to read body language in others and not know how to respond (I don’t smile naturally) I am also painfully shy in public situations. I have had bosses who have understood this and others who didn’t, so my career in the public service was up and down. Most of my bosses also realised that I didn’t suffer fools lightly, so didn’t send me on call dealing with them.

Could he have A.S.?

In reply to Have you talked to the employee

Definitely have a chat with him in a NON-THREATENING manner. Discover what makes him tick. It’s entirely possible that he has a condition like Asperger Syndrome (a form of High Function Autism). People like that have a very difficult time picking up on verbal and non-verbal social cues given by other people. They’re technically brilliant but socially clueless. He may be trampling all over other people’s boundaries and not have the faintest idea that he’s doing it. He may not realize that he’s offending other people with what seems to him to be perfectly reasonable and rational behavior.

So, try the carrot before you try the stick. Of course, this guy may simply be an S.O.B. prick, and you’ll be unable to reform his behavior and will have to eventually get rid of him (after following due procedure). Good Luck!

If he has either Autism, or A.S. he may be difficult to deal with…

In reply to Could he have A.S.?

He has a medical issue at that point, the technical needs must be balanced. (I have a 9 year old with Autism. My seven year old was talking at one- 14 months and eventually 9 year old started talking at 3 & 1/2…)

He also, if medical condition may be put on SSI…

I would have him evaluated by competent medical personnel.

spot-on

In reply to If he has either Autism, or A.S. he may be difficult to deal with…

I posted below on this topic and you guys are right.

Managed correctly by well-trained staff you may find he’s not actually rude at all. I have an aspergers member of staff who has this problem. I have an agreed hand signal I use with him to let him know when his behaviour isn’t acceptable. Without it he is unaware – and obviously can’t do anything about it.

He’s the best member of staff I’ve ever had or probably ever will have.

Past experiences

In reply to Have you talked to the employee

At a former company I worked for I expereinced two examples of this problem.

The first was an executive secretary who had an attitude a foul mouth and a lot of contact with the public. She was also good at her job. The company owners and HR were able to openly discuss the problem with her and eventually sent her to a classes on protocol and manners. This was enough to maker her realize there was a problem. She came out of it a better secretary and a pleasent voice on the phone. She sometimes reverts back to her her old ways, but only in private and amongst close freinds and workers.

The second was an african american lady we hired for IT. I trained her to work the midnight shift maintaining a mainframe. Duties were easy, spend most of time printing large reports from programs that run all night long and then start the automated backups. She was a nightmare, constantly late for her shift and a couple of times not showing up at all. Not even a call in sick. Work that should have been completed in the middle of the night did not get done. We knew she had a problem but she was a female minority working in IT. The company did not want to let her go. I spend a week with her at her shift on the pretense of training for some new procedures. It did not help. She was finally fired when a upper level manager came in one morning to look for a report he needed and found her sleeping. Not just sleeping at her desk but, streched out on a table with a pillow. As a final blow she said she would file a discrimination lawsuit for being let go. It never happened. (we later found out she was stealing lunches from the company fridge, items from their desks and even used the owners private bathroom.)

I guess the moral is that if you value the employee give them every chance to change. You could get a bettter employee for it. Don’t automatically go to the firing option until you have exhausted all options.

Banacek Fan?

In reply to Past experiences

A wise man once stated: Once you eliminate the impossible, the result, no matter how improbable is all that is left.

Old Polish Proverb

In reply to Banacek Fan?

The chicken that clucks the loudest, is the one most likely to go to the steam fitters picnic.

Banacek

No , Sherlock Holmes

In reply to Banacek Fan?

It was Holmes who uttered this line and well put it was too. 😉
Regards
Aaron

Performance plan for the job

In reply to The rude employee

It sounds like at least part of the employee’s job is supporting internal customers. I’d make sure the job description included, in addition to providing support, maintaining customer satisfaction.

Then I’d make sure the employee had customer sat in his performance plan, and communicate to him that complaints would negatively impact evaluations and resulting compensation and career opportunities.

The Rude Employee

In reply to The rude employee

As a student in management you need to follow standard protocol. Sit down and talk to him about his situation. After each discussion DOCUMENT what you have discussed in your conversation. Next you hand down a documented FINAL verbal warning with termination as the last resort. This will in turn make him wake up in the situation so that he can not do this to others.

Should you terminate the employee ensure that you document on his employee record for the state about his performance management. Thus in turn can deny his unemployment insurance from the state.

Life goes on

In reply to The rude employee

Joe,
At times in society we have such individuals who are always a pain in the. Suprisingly you may find these very charaters do not realise whatever they can be doing unless you talk to them.

I feel you should try approaching that individual and elt him know of the stupid things he is doing that are not right.

Otherwise congratulations upon your new job

Excessive job security

In reply to The rude employee

I notice many posters suggest variations on the same theme: threaten this person with termination. I wonder how many of them have ever worked at a state agency? I haven’t, but I did spend some years at a university where it was extremely difficult to fire somebody. We once had a new programmer who never to my knowledge completed a single project from the day he arrived to the day we finally got rid of him: from the moment our boss began building a case to this guy’s last day was nearly a year.

Be careful!

In reply to The rude employee

Joe –

Formalities aside, you should pay some attention and figure out what is really going on. Perhaps it is a strategy to not get bothered by people. Perhaps he has no idea that he is being perceived as rude. Perhaps he is arrogant. In any case, he probably does not know that you consider it a problem.

First, if you haven’t already, get to HR and review this persons file. You should have a right to see it. You should review the rest of your staff’s files while you are there.

Second, discuss the situation with your boss. There may be history you don’t know about. Your boss should be able to fill you in on the counseling/discipline protocol.

Third, you need to begin catching this person being rude, and telling him that it is not acceptable. Then note the discussion on a piece of paper and put it in your own file for this guy. You can’t get lazy; keep at it. You need to catch him over and over. Either he gets the message and straightens out, or he will not be surprised when the formal process starts.

If you are not willing to have these conversations, then you shouldn’t be a supervisor.

Good luck.

Food

In reply to The rude employee

Ask the employee if he likes hospital food….:/

Lots of them. Fire this Jerk ;)

In reply to The rude employee

Starting with establishing if this guy is actually being rude and/or obnoxious or is he being interpreted as such. There is a difference. In a case like your, the weight of balance must by definition be with the employees. surely they wouldn’t complain for no reason at all.
With that in mind I would have a private meet with this individual and inform him of the discontent and discord that he is causing by his rudeness and obvious lack of consideration.
Although stated politely and nicely, the message would be crystal, get it together or get out.
Nobody and I mean NOBODY is deserving of the kind of treatment this creep doles out in order to feel better about himself. Thisis the year 2006, we know how to live and i would quite forcefully inform him of such.
And remember something else, this type of behavior can also be interpreted as harassment, and abuse, neither of which are tolerated in civilized society, let alone at work.
If he refuses, then Dump him, Nobody is that Good, I don’t care who he is, it give’s him no special privileges of abuse and riding roughshod over others.
If it were me?, he’d be gone, for offenses past.
Regards
Aaron. 😉

Rude or Stressed?

In reply to The rude employee

I was “wished the best of luck” from a job where I too had complaints of being rude to others, some justified, some not. What I found, however, was that once I left that company, my stress level dropped dramatically. I’m now working in front line customer service again with great success. Sometimes it’s just the job fit, not the employee himself.

Whats missing?

In reply to The rude employee

I’ve only read a few of the responses so far but I have to say that it appears that dumping the individual comes up most. STOP, do they have the technical ability that you need, if so arrange an Interpersonal Skills Course for both of you, that way they won’t think your ganging up on them and you’ll probably get something out of it yourself.

rudeness in the IT world

In reply to The rude employee

A rude person is very hard to deal with especially when they need the help desk person, which is me. I work for a large school distrct in Kansas, my job is the schools library person for deyployment, repairs, help desk, a one person show. The users I deal with are mostly women with somewhat of a higher education level in their field of teacher, librarian. There is one person that has been rude to everyone and asked to leave two schools already. How does one deal with this, I don’t know the correct answer. I have to rearange my schedule to be at her site when she is not there. Just press the ignor button is not correct but being a whipping post is not correct either.
Rudeness is a character defect which reflects the way a person feels when they are not being taken serious. I’ve tried everything to help the situation, this has failed so for now I give them the information they need and nothing more. If I have to visit the site its on a wednesday when they are not there. libtech@hotmail.com

rude employee head shrink

In reply to The rude employee

This kind of behavior is typical of someone with an overinflated opinion of himself and his worth, and considers everyone else on the “B” team. You need to have a talk with him, fast, and update his performance evaluation criteria so that helping others, with generosity and not condecension, is a major part of his evaluation.

The Rude Employee

In reply to The rude employee

Joe,

I am sorry to hear you have this problem. Having been a manager and having to deal with this same thing in the past, I sympathize. Here are some guidlines that might help and I think the others have supplied them but may bear repeating.

First, understand your agency’s/states rules regarding corrective action and office discipline. If they are not followed, law suits can occur (harrasment, wrongful dismissal, etc.).

Second, be a leader. This person needs to know the score. He/She is affecting the morale of your other staff in a negative fashion. He may know his stuff but his people skills are absolutely deplorable and he needs to know it. he needs to know that others are complaining. Be very specific about the offenses. Vagueness is not going to serve you well. Verify and quantify.

Third, the workplace is not a place for rehabilitation. Don’t attempt to rehabilitate. If the problem w/ rudeness is due to other issues (substance abuse, domestic problems, sickness, etc.) part of the corrective action must be that the person seek help. This person needs to understand personal responsibility and accountability.

Fourth, while I agree w/ one of your respondents about all the negative attention this person receives at the expense of the other staff members, it’s almost unavoidable. Make sure you make extra effort to reward the good and mature behavior of your other staff members and be public about it. This person is holding you and your staff hostage. Being somewhat demonstrative of positive feedback for the others may improve their morale and will clearly show your support of them.

Fifth, this person needs to know he/she is looking at the door. Continued rudeness and behavior that does not improve will be met w/ dismissal. But this person needs to know this now, not later. There is a price to pay for lousy unprofessional behavior and the rest of your staff doesn’t need to pay it.

Being the New Parent

In reply to The rude employee

Tact and good manners were once taught across our society. Nowadays, you can’t rely on that. Does this person want to be kind and tactful? If so, you may be the teacher, remediating the lack of basic skills. Also, there is a moral component: does this person consider others as having value and worth? In other words, does this employee respect others or consider them somehow lesser beings? You may find morals hard to teach! So, what are you up for?

Fairness to all

In reply to The rude employee

The reason for talking to someone is that if no one says anything and then he’s fired, it’s a shock. I would recommend suing if you’ve gotten good performance evaluations and then are suddenly let go.
The documentation is just to demonstrate you performed _your_ job as manager well. Often, a simple talk or even minimal direct action works wonders. My brother took over an engineering dept on a ship in the Navy (US–good govt job) that was doing poorly. After two weeks, he put 20 of the 28 sailors on PIPs–performance improvement plans. Nineteen of them, all older, resigned their commissions when he called them in. The one guy who didn’t was 18 years old and just going along with gang.
Having that talk is difficult, but there’s a 90% chance you’ll only have to do it once.

For co-workers, it’s much harder. I’ve had a dysfunctional one for 4 years. The milquetoast boss gave her the same performance rating she gives everyone and tried to appease people. The developer has never delivered a single thing that actually works. It never passes my testing but I was forced by the boss to put it on production. I make the boss handle all complaints about the code the wacko writes. She used to curse at us in meetings. I finally told the boss that this is a “fighting words” town and since the boss ain’t doing anything about the situation, I will, that the next time I was cursed at, I was going to deck the b**ch and call security. We have separate “team” meetings now. That was two years ago.
My boss finally hired another manager in-between us and her and it took him just 3 weeks to identify the problem (after implementing lots of b.s. reporting that has since been discarded).
All he did was not let me release any code that wasn’t fully tested–a procedure we had in place but that wasn’t enforced in her case. She flipped out, lots of self-incriminating e-mails, saw the writing on the wall, and is now burning all her sick leave (you don’t get paid for it when you quit) before trying to get medical disability and early retirement and anything else she can legally steal.
We’ve fired other people (and this is a US Federal Agency with a boatload of rules) before and gotten sued. The normal payout is $200,000. We’d have saved money firing her after the first 6 months and paying off a lawsuit and our morale and output would be higher now.
My boss thinks everything is fine now, but all of the employees remind her and her boss that we only blame the coworker for the first year of problems. The three+ years after is completely the boss’ fault. I suspect she’ll be gone next.

Keyword: “Union”

In reply to The rude employee

You should keep a log. Of course, it will always go in this persons performance review. But in a state position (which I’m assuming is union), there is nothing you can do. I have horror stories about these types, and a simple reprimand had the union calling and going after the supervisor! And these aren’t even good workers. Lazy, incompetent, negative, use up all of their sick leave, and complain about having to actually do what they’re paid to do. Be careful if it’s with a union position. There is little you can do, and even reporting it could backfire.

Educate

In reply to The rude employee

Rude people are sad cases. Rudeness is a form of violence. A rude person needs to be made aware of their behaviour and the fact that honey gets you farther than mustard. Rudeness may also be a form of lack of self confidence and therefor a shield to keep the danger of being exposed out. No matter what, the rude person needs education. If that does not help – OK, then a different job may be the right thing. I once had a rude supervisor – a miserable creature. I fought back but she had someone protecting her. Nevertheless I found a way to strip her of her power position and later she was moved into a position that was suitable for her, working in a store room with little contact to people.

Hope this helps.

Jo

Rude by Design

In reply to The rude employee

It has been my experience that employees who are purposefully rude are simply carrying out their own agenda to put in 8 hours go home and collect a check. They know their behavior will assist in isolating them from fellow workers and people they are actually hired to provide help. A common sense sit down pointing out that their attitude is being percieved to be negative and directly inquire as to whether or not that is their intent. Being a state or gov. agency doesn’t give much room to hold demotion or termination over their head but even those agencies have reviews and raise evaluations that can be used to get the point across. This is all to say that you can’t force everyone to be cheery and gleeful on the job but you can enforce at the very minimum a neutral environment such that this individuals behaviour doesn’t negatively impact the work and attitude of others.

Unacceptable Business Behaviour

In reply to The rude employee

Ever heard of “Unacceptable Behaviour”. This is you weapon.

There are a few rules you must know about dealing with this kind of problems.

1. You cannot fix attitude, you can only deal with behaviour. And specific behaviour.

2. You have to lay down the law before exercise the law.

3. You need specific incidences to exercise that law, and the incidence must happen after you lay down the law.

The law you may want to consider is “unacceptable behaviour”. You can come up with this yourself, or, even better, do it in a staff meeting, and let all staff member help with defining what is unacceptable. You have to define the penalties as well. The key word is: up to and including dismissal.

You don’t have to say who can lay the complain. It can be hear say, customers, clients, colleaques, management, or your own observation. But you need to have witness – not whether the behaviour is acceptable or not, but that the behaviour has been committed.

When you are awared of an incident, you talk to the offender, in an unthreatening manner, to get him/her to admit to the act. Document the meeting and all that was said, including date, time, location, who was present (get some third person in it, so that you don’t need the guy’s signature on the document). Next, you interview the witness, and document, as above.

Now you have the weapon to act. You can shoot to kill, or just to maim. That’s up to you.

By the way, for sexual harrassment behaviour, it is the acceptance of the person in the receiving end that counts, not that of the offender. If you feel offended, you are.

Tell him to go try a third job

In reply to The rude employee

It is more important to have harmony in the work place than his expertise no matter how good he is. With all the IT poeple looking for work you shouldn’t have a hard time finding someone to fill his position.

Employee issues vs State Employment

In reply to The rude employee

In NY state employees have the benefit of a relatively strong union. You need to follow the rules – counsel and document, etc. The personnel unit can be vital for advice because the union can and will get involved making sure that the supervisor did everything neccessary before dismissal. Hopefully, counselling and frequent feedback will improve the situation but if not…. You should be able to get a solution to your problem within two years.

Fairies in the night…..

In reply to The rude employee

When an otherwise good tech turned the receptionist into a bitchy pile of tears I took him aside and mentioned this:

“Personally while I may think that ‘What do you mean you don’t know how this happened? Do you think fairy’s come down and change settings on you computer at night…’ is freaking hilarious and probably somewhat deserved, its no way to treat users and It needs to stop or I’m going to have to let you go.”

no call for it

In reply to The rude employee

A few years ago, I had the opportunity to lead a team of programmers in a “large” integration project. Our small group was working with 5 seperate companies.

One of our team was the consumate “techno-bluff”. He bullied and belittled users (not to mention the fact that he was incredibly rude). He had multiple users in tears quite frequently.

Some department heads cornered me in a meeting one day and DEMANDED that I do something. My solution was to give him a benign little system to be all his own… he quit within three weeks and went to work for WalMart.

I was the “rude” employee

In reply to The rude employee

At one job, I was considered the “rude” employee.

Why was it that I was considered “rude”.

Because I didnot know how to say “No” properly.

I was given guidelines and mandates by the executives at the firm.

Managers, Supervisors, Assistants, Administrative and everyone else in the corporation believed that their “project” was the ONLY item of consideration.

When their “project” clashed with the guidelines and mandates, I would say “No”.

But I didn’t “Sugar” coat the “No” enough. And after the tenth time saying “No” to same person, I would sometimes become very direct with my “No”.

Now, if I have to say “No”, I agreed that their project is very important, explain to the person my “restrictions” and volunteer to accompany the individual to the issuing authority to get an override.

This works 99% of the time.

Unfortunately, I developed this too late for that job, but it has saved me many times since.

Doug

this is why you have a supervisor

In reply to I was the “rude” employee

In this kind of situation you can escalate this external request issue to your supervisor and have him handle the politics of load balancing too many requests with not enough people.

AMEN! Time for a ‘come to Jesus’ talk

In reply to The rude employee

We’ve had the same thing where I work. Two guys I work with have pretty much no social skills. One was in the same room with me, and when he left we all breathed a sigh of relief until he was replaced by someone just as bad. Oddly enough, they both have the same annoying habits. They like working in complete darkness, they talk very loudly on the phone, and when they eat (and they always eat in their cubes) it sounds like a dog licking its butt. (This is what happens when guys don’t date in high school.) They even type loudly.

The best course of action is direct confrontation. SUBLETY DOES NOT WORK. Men like this, and yes it’s nearly always men, can’t, won’t or don’t pick up on subtle social cues. They missed out on normal social interaction in those crucial years of 12-18. While their peers were dating, hanging out at the mall and going to parties, they were playing D&D or sitting at their computers. You must be direct. For example… We will turn on the lights. Please talk softly on the telephone. Eat in the break room, not at your desk. The accompanying false arrogance that these guys have will never go away. I think for truly annoying nerdy guys it’s their way of lashing out a world that rejected them.

Coming to “Jesus”

In reply to AMEN! Time for a ‘come to Jesus’ talk

The generalizations and assumptions in your post are so grossly negligent I am hoping that you are not in a supervisory position of any kind at all.

Your entire post is rude, condescending and completely off base in it’s assumptions and it’s conclusions based on those assumptions. Instead of showing them some compassion to help them tailor their behaviour, you continued to look down your nose at them. How very un-Jesuslike of you. People sometimes are just ignorant on how their behaviour effects others, yourself included. I am disgusted by your behaviour here, by your comments and think you are rude and probably not as social adept as your make yourself out to be. You are the kind of guy in high school that girls dated just for status, and that people hung out with for material value… have you ever stopped to think that maybe “nerds” don’t socialize to avoid all these generalizations and assumptions?

Educate Mr Rude.

In reply to The rude employee

Irrespective of how good he is at his job, there is no justified reason for rudeness. I would tell him that his days are numberd if he does not shape up. Tell him the old expression “Shape up or ship out”.

A little vague

In reply to The rude employee

We could possibly give better insights if we had a little more detail. Perhaps an example of how the employee is rude. I notice most posters either are ready to term the guy or they feel like they are being called rude themselves. There are most definitely rude employees AND there are users who will ACCUSE an employee of being rude if she/he doesn’t bend/break rules for them or otherwise give them special treatment.

I’d like a little more information.

In my Humble Opinion_We are ALL Pros Here.

In reply to A little vague

That’s the reason we all went through puberty, that’s the reason we spent so many painful years growing up, some of us harder than others. To learn how to behave in public!!
I was raised with a given set of rules and regulation. In our home, they simply weren’t broken. At least not without paying the price.
That’s the purpose of parental upbringing, to teach yu how to behave,walk and talk in a socially acceptable manner. But this takes place in the formative years, so anybody acting this way in their 18s to mid twenties simply has no excuse.
Most of the time, you’ll find that staff are more than easy to get along with and always willing to help the novice, because the faster he/she can get on line with the rest of the gang, the faster and better the work get’s done. It becomes a form of Family and if well maintained, a joy in which to work.
It can be a happy environment.
So I for one, fail to see the need for anybody to be purposely rude,abrasive and/or abusive.
Just talking with all the different Techs, male and Female here at Tech Republic, has given me some insight as to just how truly generous and giving these people can be. So now we are asked to believe that this putridity is doing all this unawares?
Sorry, doesn’t wash, he knows all right and he just doesn’t give a damn, for him it’s an attention getter.
Rest assured, he’d my attention and a lot more than he wouldn’t expect. Maybe somebody should deliver him back to his parents and say “Here Dear Mom and Dad, do this one over, you missed the part about manners and civility.” 😉
Regards
Aaron

Always do a background check.

In reply to The rude employee

Always do a job background check by doing this it could tell you how many jobs this guy has had in the last two to three years. Find out were he work before he came your way. If the people on his last job say what a great worker got along with everyone.Then go to were he worked chance’s are there will be someone who really knows him.If not chance’s are you may lose some really great worker’s. I would get rid of one bad apple than take a chance on losing alot of good ones.

understanding

In reply to Always do a background check.

You have to find out and understand WHY this guy is rude.

One of my best employees is aspergers – very socially inept and VERY rude. I’ve had to educate the other staff about his condition and I have to spend much time clearing up the mess and working with him to help him work in a team.

We all have a laugh together and now he’s loved and valued. Hard work yields results. Don’t just take the easy route, because it could be a massive mistake.

Profeesional and strategic

In reply to The rude employee

Hi… just a note… I think there is a need to address the issue very swiftly but more imporantly do it professionally and strategically. His/her action is a reflection of how you run your unit and you character is in scrutiny by your peers, staffs and perhaps even management.

typcially, i’ll give two verbal warnings… the first is typically counselling/advice (try to find out what’s his problem) while the second can be a reprimand… These verbal commuincation must be done in private and not for the rest of the staff to see or hear. You still need to ensure his privacy is secured.

the third one will be a written memo ordering him change his ways and note the conversations i had before… and indicate that any such uncivil behaviour will not be tolerated and drastics steps will be taken to rectify the situation…

But before you head on doing this… consult with your HR practitioners … perhaps they may have some corporate guidelines and before a written note is made have the company legal counsel vet it through…

you need to ensure that you have conducted yorself according to the guidelines set by your org and ensure that actions are not beyond the legal limits of the environment you are practicing in.

Hope this helps. Gd luck!!!

Handlign rude employee

In reply to The rude employee

Dear joe,

I feel that people require feedback to perform better in their work.

In your word i was able to understand that his results are good but behaviour aspects are bad.

So with out delay fix a meeting with that employee and explain all postive points first.

Then you straight away put about his rude behaviour and how it is affecting hia career and departmental work culture.

Suggest sertain ways to control his emotions.

I think he will understand and perform better.

I expereinced this type of situations with so many people and able to chaneg them.

I am sure he

Handling Rude Employee

In reply to Handlign rude employee

I know the reasons for telling people the positive points first. I do that but it strikes me as a little manipulative. Build them up just to knock them down a notch? While I understand the goal of accentuating the positive, it’s not this person who needs positive feedback. The people who need positive feedback are the staff he is destroying.

It’s the velvet-covered iron fist and most people know it, especially if they have reason to believe the news isn’t good. You know that you have some heavy bad news to deliver. Why not just come out with it? Not in a brash way. There are ways to deliver bad news or critique so as not to destroy a person. But don’t play games. Most people aren’t stupid.

This person doesn’t need manipulation. He needs motivation.

b-bye!

In reply to The rude employee

Fire his ass NOW!
There are many fine people OUT OF WORK in the IT field who would be soooo happy to have this job.
Seriously, this guy should go work at WalMart or Home Depot. My struggling IT friends need the work.

Are his computer skills only sufficient?

In reply to The rude employee

Or is he the best in the office?

Does he know enough that the value added by his labor exceeds the cost in productivity to the rest of the office of his rudeness? Also, if his job description includes IT support, he should be fired if others are intimidated to ask him to do his job duties. But if he is so knowledgeable that the office cannot function without him, he is probably just gruff because he isn’t being paid appropriately.

self-correction

In reply to Are his computer skills only sufficient?

If his job description includes IT support, and he [b]refuses[/b] to provide that support, he should be fired. If others are intimidated to ask for support, they probably are just self-conscious about their own ignorance. Experts are almost always perceived by incompetents as rude, because our confidence is mis-interpreted as arrogance by overly sensitive morons who presume themselves the center of attention of people who couldn’t care less about you.

How I handled my rude co-worker

In reply to The rude employee

I’m a technician in a business. A twenty year co-worker I’ll call “gravy boat Larry” GBL.
GBL would always puts his two cents in and acts omnicient. Other co-workers were afraid of him, until I came along. I also have a good secondary investment income and don’t really depend on my technician job for economic sustinance but I love the work and really look forward to it.
I was doing a routine repair as directed by a technical service bulletin. I was ready for GBL.
GBL looked at me and asked me “what in sam hell are you doing?” I exploded! and yelled so everyone heard me ” I am following the directions of a mother fu*k*ng cock su*k**g engineer who makes a 100K a year more than you do, has a wife and three mistresses with a teenage male twink he is banging on the side, so kiss my a** you son of a bi**ch and go fu** yourself.
I did not get fired for that emotional outburst, my manager only replied “I heard this project is eating you up” Thats all they said, my co-workes loved the drama and gravy boat Larry is polite to me every single day.
You have to weigh your situation and the risks of going off like I did. I don’t recommend it unless you can afford getting fired.
The emotional release felt so good!!!!

The rude awakening

In reply to The rude employee

Either take the bull by the horns and pin him to the desk shouting,”A bit more respect or I will sharpen my pencil on you”, may work, depends how big he is. On the other hand, a cup of coffee taken to him and a chat about how well he handles his work, and maybe if he handled the staff as well he would really be the bee’s knees.

rude employee

In reply to The rude employee

In reading the several replies, I have noticed a trend toward the heartless. Many say “dump him”.
You really should find out _why_ this person has a rudeness issue. He may be under tremendous stress at work or in other areas of his life.
Does the employer have the ‘never enough’ attitude? i.e., never good enough, never fast enough, never inexpensive enough, etc., etc.
I have been in that situation and it is extremely difficult to maintain a ‘honey-sweet’ attitude when your company considers you to be less than dog-doo under its heel.
Investigate this person and help him to overcome.

Don’t Cry to Me Agentina

In reply to The rude employee

You say he is a “State” employee. Can’t fire a State employee. IMPOSSIBLE to get rid of them. The only way a State employee leaves is when they drop dead.

Go to ANY State Agency, they’re all rude. The more rude you are, the faster you move up the ladder.

Just put up with it. Nothing else you can do.

With honey you catch a lot more bees!

In reply to The rude employee

It is rare to find a human being who is both competent and sociable. The time and skills required to socialize often exlude the time and skills required to become competent. Those who become more competent also often are not pleased at others rising faster than them in the social ladder or even having an equal position. This they see as some sort of lack of appreciation or even double standard. On the other hand, those who are less qualified feel slighted (and even jealous) by the very knowledge/skills of the more competent, which s/he acquired to gain self-esteem and appreciation by others in the first place and are also afraid to acknowledge not knowing something, which they are afraid would be perceived as weakness and would lead eventually to rejection/loss of the job.
In order to proactively resolve this kind of undercurrent in a small enterprise, I would
(1) informally get to know the real person behind the “rude” employee, see if s/he feels somehow unappreciated and publically lavish some sincere appreciation and recognition on him/her (not necessarily by promotion or assignment of official responsiblity but also moral/verbal recognition in front of his/her colleagues).
(2) Organize informal social get-togethers for all the team from the small company once a week around any game, sport, or activity enjoyed by the majority, which can also be changed from time to time to break the routine.
(3) Organize some work-relations/best practices workshops at the enterprise.
(4) Award Employee of the Month on a rotating basis to all co-workers.
Remember a “rude” human being is just a mask, and a more “obvious” way of getting attention. This employee is obviously crying out for attention and acceptance by the group, although s/he is sending out signs to reject others before they reject him/her (for fear of rejection). His/her competence is his/her way of saying to the world it ought to be enough to accept him/her; so that deep inside, the employee does not accept himself/herself easily. Hence:
(5) If possible indirectly make available to this employee some form of counselling or hire a counsellor to come to the social gatherings and become part of the business.
(6) Avoid any direct counter”rude” measures (personalization of the issue). These would be perceived as such and would always be counterproductive.
Compassion: please give him/her another chance. Once s/he is accepted, s/he will be happier and so will give you very good productivity.
With honey, you can catch a lot more bees.
“Don’t Sweat the Small Stuff at Work: Simple Ways to Minimize Stress and Conflict While Bringing Out the Best in Yourself and Others (Don’t Sweat the Small Stuff Series) (Paperback” by Richard Carlson. … No promotion intended: I just love this writer.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Majid.

Now THAT is good advice

In reply to With honey you catch a lot more bees!

With the additional observation that “those who are less qualified ” are sometimes in a lead position which could produce the ‘slighted’ feeling from those who ARE qualified.

Whatever happened to knowing how to Live?

In reply to With honey you catch a lot more bees!

I’ve dealt with all kinds of different people from all walks of life in my time and have always found the time to be courteous. Sometimes, I was the Boss, in other situations, it was they who were in charge.
It’s been my observation that most people who “Do Not” feel a need to prove themselves on a continuous basis usually make much better bosses and co workers.
I would like to think that we haven’t reached the point as human beings that we now have to go and read books on how to live? That would be truly sad.
The Rules are simple and they apply to both sides.
“Treat other as you would have them treat you”. I don’t have to into any big analogy about what this means. We’re all smart enough to know.
But if a person actually has to go and read what should be second nature out of a book, I suggest that much more than a book is what is needed here.
Rudeness,arrogance and a need to Dominate, have always been signs that the person had a very low opinion of “themselves” and used every opportunity to “Show” just how good they were. Especially in front of the Boss, if at all possible. Problem was, they used the wrong method.
So next Time take a good look at the person in front of you and just before you open your mouth, remember this, he/she too, has feelings and can be deeply, hurt, damaged by your words and actions, just like you can. Because of your need to Feel like your “Worth Something”
Look at them, then speak and you’ll find you won’t need books.
And in the process, you will become a better team [ Led by You ] and you could end up working with Friends, instead of Competitive Cuthroats.
I’ll take Friends, any day.
Regards
Aaron

his previous job ??

In reply to The rude employee

You have seen a lot of bad and good advice here. I do wonder how you found about his problem at a former job. That would be grounds for him to bring a lawsuit. I hope that he does and I also hope that he ends up owning BOTH that former company (for revealing ‘secure’ information) and YOUR company (for asking and then revealing that same info).
Your company needs a union!

RE: 50kilroy; his previous job ??

In reply to his previous job ??

I have a similiar situation where the employee told his supervisor disrepect during a meeting. The investigation into this incident with the assistance of HR reveals that a another employee who also used to work at his previous job witness a yelling match before it got physical. At the previous job the employee was forced to apologize pubicly in the office. Looks like this rude employee has fired himself?

one fun solution……

In reply to The rude employee

We had a woman like that and she was equally hated by everyone (at that was consistant he chuckles). A certain unnamed employee kinda sturred the pot until the level of hostility finally went over the edge.
She was staying after hours alledgedly to get more work done on a Friday and was accompanied by a temporary (also a lady) when the temporary decided she had enough.

This temp took care of what all the other employees only did in their dreams and imaginations– the temp beat the living hell out of her. (the room where the beating took place looked like it had been ransacked and there was the greasy shape of a face with makeup and lipstick on the door glass)

Monday morning Miss Rudeness didn’t come it (too many bruises and scapes) and the temp had ditched the temp company. Miss Rudeness came in the following Monday still bruised, swollen and both eyes black. We all laughed our butts off and Miss Rudeness was fired that day.

We all wanted to buy the temp dinner but we couldn’t locate her. 🙂

People will take just so much crap.

and try another approach to rudeness

In reply to The rude employee

Take flowers and write “Thanks for being Rude” or something similar. Each time he does it send him congratulations mail. The end goal is appeal to guilt. Coach, reprimand and similar last resorts, if hasn’t still worked, this method might be worth a try.

The only “approved” way is …

In reply to The rude employee

Since this is a state agency (no matter what size) there is ALWAYS a procedure that must be adhered to if the offending employee is a civil servant. In this case you must document, coach, note improvement, document. The previous usually must be performed three (3) times to satisfy the HR office and whatever union may be involved. This will protect you against inclusion to any lawsuit that takes place naming you *with* the agency name. If you name is left out of the lawsuit target you’re ok. If not then you better get a lawyer that specializes in civil service actions.
If this louse is a contractor then complain to the contract administrator and that persons boss.

A different face of rudeness

In reply to The rude employee

A different face of rudeness – I too just acquired a job with a government agency and though I shied from accepting a managerial position management insisted. Unemployed for 9 months and when not under employed I accepted. I was given charge over a small field team and one of the members is constant trouble. She is a high maintenance personality and exercises zero tolerance towards her team members and me alike while demanding a wide range of tolerance for herself. She has a propensity to play cutesy around males, constantly demands, when in conversations or meetings, for people to repeat themselves. She also has the annoying habit of speaking out of place and out of turn, hijacking a conversation or a meeting and redirecting it to impertinent subject matters. If she?s not given center stage she will pout and when addressed she?ll reply with sharp rudeness. The fact that this employee is a female who believes that her internal acquaintances (connections) and her flirtatiousness with male figures of management afford her job security makes for a volatile situation. Fortunately members of management are not blind. I was asked if the team could tolerate her until the end of the year when her contract comes to term, I answered yes. Her contract is not going to be renewed.

In your case you?re new to your post, distance yourself a little and allow for time to reveal more about the personal dynamics in play. The fact that you know he had this problem at his previous job means that you?ve done some investigating or somebody told you about it and if that?s the case rest assured that others know it too. Wait and root yourself first before pursuing a resolution perhaps by then somebody in management will flick the switch and terminate him without you having to risk getting hurt or worse loose your job due to him.

Best of luck

Now in my case, what if she wasn?t a contractor, what if she did have internal patronage?

[Author]

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