General discussion


There's 'sin' again.

By john.a.wills ·
Tags: Off Topic
article root

This conversation is currently closed to new comments.

16 total posts (Page 2 of 2)   Prev   01 | 02
Thread display: Collapse - | Expand +

All Comments

Collapse -

Cost of deployment went up, too...

by AnsuGisalas In reply to KJV 'lockdown'

Before Gutenberg let the cat out of the bag, Church IT only had to push the updates to a relatively limited number of managers.
Afterwards, a change wouldn't take effect until a significant number of end users would have gotten around to relicensing their iThump, er... I mean bible.

Collapse -

There were relatively few copies of the Bible about for most of the period

by Deadly Ernest In reply to Cost of deployment went u ...

as they were hand made by the priest and monks etc. Although there were some changes to the wording, the great majority of changes were in what the current Greek or Latin words MEANT in English, i.e. they changed what the words translated into. The church hierarchy also made lots of changes in what the existing doctrine meant and how it was applied as well. The main reason for most changes was to increase the power, authority, and income of the Pope and the senior church leaders.

Collapse -

What else can be expected...

by AnsuGisalas In reply to There were relatively few ...

of the World Government?

Collapse -

Prior to the KJV the Holy Bible was in what they called Church Latin

by Deadly Ernest In reply to KJV 'lockdown'

except for a very few personally translated exceptions.

The Bibles were written by hand and usually by the priest or monk etc. who was going to use it by copying from an older copy at the church facility they were at at the time they did the copying.

Collapse -

Earnest, you have a thing about the Council of Trent...

by john.a.wills In reply to Sin is a purely religious ...

earlier you accused it of making rules about marriage which it was really just restating from Mt 19 etc., and now you accuse it of changing the canon of the Bible when it merely restated the list of books given by the ecumenical Council of Florence in 1441, itself a restatement of the list sent in 405 by Pope Innocent I to Bishop Exuperius of Toulouse, itself not exactly original.

And what's this about the KJV? It's a translation, not a canon. The KJV as usually printed is based on the canon Carlostadius, one of Luther's colleagues, put out in 1520 (Luther himself had a slightly shorter canon, but the majority of Lutherans go with Carlostadius, although they may not know it). The KJV locks nothing down except in the minds of some English-speaking Protestant Fundamentallists or near-Fundamentalists. Personally when reading the Bible in English I use the RSV, very rarely reaching for the KJV I inherited from the previous occupant of my house.

The KJV was not the first translation of the Bible into English, as one can see by looking at the title page: "with the former Translations diligently compared and revised...": if you count Bede's language as English, I suppose his version must be the earliest, and there were several others between that and the KJV (the Douai version, for instance, came out in 1610).

Collapse -

The Councils I mentioned are the ones where they gave a definite acceptance

by Deadly Ernest In reply to Earnest, you have a thing ...

of what people were suggesting before that. Many lower level members of the church had been making suggestions and giving ideas before hand, which is why matters came up for discussion in the various councils held. It's only when the councils make a clear recommendation to the Pope and the matter is authorised by the senior church hierarchy that it comes into affect as being clear doctrine. In each case I mention the council where there is clear evidence of an idea being given full support and it's shown as being included as doctrine etc. The two major ones affecting approved scriptures are the Council of Nicea and the Council of Trent mentioned earlier.

The councils are major church meeting, like all work meeting they discuss things that were being discussed in correspondence and dinner meetings for a long time before hand, but they do not get official approval and recognition until such time as they get formally discussed in the meeting (Council in this case) and are entered in the minutes as the approved official answer. In each case I stated the council where they appeared as the approved answer, not as part of the general discussion that was left unresolved.

As to marriage, it was first mentioned that the church should look at recognising such event in the fourth century, but it was not taken on board by the church as something they need to get involved in for many more centuries.

As to the KJV Bible, it's the first duly authorised and approved version in English and the first that was made fairly universally available for people to read.

Anyway, we are getting into the gritty details of church politics, which is fun, but away from the main topics which were the church involvement in marriage well after it was an established civil activity, and the later church introduced topic of sin that was raised.

Back to After Hours Forum
16 total posts (Page 2 of 2)   Prev   01 | 02

Related Discussions

Related Forums