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This country was built on the sweat of Unions !

By fnm48 ·
For all those "uninformed" out there (and judging by your response to the Unionize IT Blog, you are uninformed), Unions built this country.
For if it weren't for the unions, "Management" would be making little or no money with no benefits at all...Professionals and unions "are" a perfect match (because Unions don't take just anybody). You need credentials to join one. I've been on "both sides of the fence" and believe me with corporate greed at a new high, unionize or get used and abused friend ! It's not about the money, it's about respect for a good days work !If anyone disagrees, let them work in a non-union sweat shop(like my Mom did)for less than $70 per week with conditions that the homeless would reject ! Her Vacation was getting "layed-off" for 2 weeks a year and collecting un-employment !So, get your facts straight, before you dis unions...

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Talk about "UNINFORMED"!

by jdclyde In reply to This country was built on ...

Right off the bat, it was the "Unionize IT" DISCUSSION, not a blog. (nice to get your facts wrong in the same sentence that claims other people aren't getting the facts right! )

Unions had a purpose, a long time ago. That time is long past.

The Union worker is as lazy as the government worker is. they got their position and have to do very little to keep that job and walk out with a paycheck everyweek.

Lots of stand around time WASTED, because three workers have to stand around waiting for the CORRECT union rat to come to that one specific thing that would have taken any one of the three workers 10 seconds to do if they were ALLOWED to touch that part.

ANY organization where you advance based on how many years you have been punching a clock instead of they quality of worker you are, is corrupt and full of incompetent people.

A non-union shop will out perform a union shop everytime because they will ususally give an incentive like profit sharing based on PROFITS. The harder they work, the more they get.

I have worked both union and non-union, both on the floor as a shop rat and in the "front office". I would NEVER want to go back to the union shops again.

I used to get yelled at by the oldtimers in the union for working too fast more than I would EVER get yelled at by management. Got to milk that job, don'tchaknow?

Unions are why the US automakers have lost ALL competative advantages over the imports. The quality is STARTING to get better (it was horrible for a long time) but the COST of a new GM vs Toyota says that more people are going to buy that Toyota.

Oh yeah, for all the BS about "Buy union", I personally know several GM employees that shop at WALMART (anti-union) instead of Meijers (union) because it saves THEM money. Good for the goose....

Unions are for stupid lazy people that can't keep a job based on their work ethics. Are you stupid and lazy, or just protecting all the stupid lazy people you know?

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Can I get an amen!

by anykey??? In reply to Talk about "UNINFORMED"!

This pretty much sums up my opinion of most unions,but mostly the UAW. The UAW has almost single handedly brought the big three to their knees,by demanding more money and less work each year.

My experience with unions is second hand through my dad.

In the late 70's early 80's he was a member of the flint glass workers union,he had been a member for 8 years and went through an apprenticeship to be a mold maker.At that time the american glass industry was very big and making alot of money, and so were the employees,as a journeyman mold maker he was in the $16.00 a hour range working 80+ hours a week making a nice living.

Then people began to realize the cost benefits of plastic bottles and the industry began to weaken as demand for glass began to drop,With that drop in demand came a drop in hours,and according to the union contract where he worked they were guaranteed a set amount of hours.So instead of just cutting overtime for everyone they had to lay off to maintain that level of hours for those b!tchy old b@stards. Did I mention I was 8 at the time and the layoff came the week of thanksgiving that year.

I will never forget the pain in my dads voice and the sorrow in his eyes explaining exactly how the whole santa claus thing works to his 8 and 6 year old boys(kids shouldn't have to find out this way but I respect him for it),and how he wasn't sure how christmas would turn out because of the layoff and the fact that mom wasn't working at the time.

After that whole mess settled down dad got a job as a(non union) machinist for a specialty machine company that dealt alot with the auto industry and has tons of stories about the BS he had to put up with when he was in an auto plant somewhere doing a service call.

I will not deny that unions have their place but they have totally forgotten what that place is, and I have the feeling that the auto industry is just about to remind them.

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by maxwell edison In reply to Can I get an amen!

There ya' go, anykey???

JD, very well said.

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Thanks! Max

by anykey??? In reply to AMEN!
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by jdclyde In reply to Thanks! Max

Thanks both Max and Any.

Any, sorry to hear what your family had to go through. It was divorce when I was 4 that put us in the poor house for a long time, but we got over it, and obviously so did your family.

My mom now has her Masters in Computer science. A far cry from that single mom on welfare in the early 70's.

While putting myself through school I have been in and out of many shops. The work wasn't the hardest in the unions shops, but the job satisfaction was the lowest and the work environment the worst.

I also have relatives working for GM NOW, as well as a few friends.

If is kind of funny that GM people define themselves by WHERE they work, not what they do.

When someone asks me what I do for a living, I tell them I play with computers. If they follow it up with where, I then tell them the company.

If you ask a GM emplyee what they do, they will ALWAYS say "I work at GM", as if that is suppose to mean something.

Oh yeah, a few years back they were doing MANDATORY seven day weeks (so they could lay people off) and my ex-father-in-law was paying more in taxes than I took home.

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Being an auto worker...

by anykey??? In reply to Indeed

used to carry some prestige when talking to others involved in manufacturing,I think that is why auto workers just refer to what company they work for and not what they do.
But now it doesn't carry the weight that it used to.

From my experience the union contracts have made many jobs in a plant very mundane because the focus of each position is so small, and you don't dare veer off what exactly what it is you are supposed to do because of fear of a grievance that it has killed morale.

JD, thanks man, yeah my family pulled through very well but there was a couple of very lean years that I remember, and it has definately left its mark on how I view things now that I have a family of my own.

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by jdclyde In reply to Being an auto worker...

Yes, it sounds much better to say "GM" than to say a "bolt tightener".

You can tell the GM "rich guys" from the DOW "rich guys" in the state. The GM guy will have ever toy you can imagine and is living from paycheck to paycheck and can barely afforde to buy their "miller lite". The Dow guys live in a nice home, in a nice neighborhood and don't really have a whole lot going out each week because everything is paid for as they go instead of "charge it".

I see it all the time, and the ONLY difference between the GM worker and some guy in a no-name shop making 1/4 the wage, is they got hired in 30 years ago. High school diploma? Your good enough to work the floor. Who needs college when you can make $80K a year doing monkey work?

(it would drive me nuts!)

My buds dad is maintance. He makes about $30/hour to play darts in his office waiting for something to break. Give him a broom!

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I work at a union plant.....

by tryten In reply to Talk about "UNINFORMED"!

And I can say that 99% of what you said is true. Its gotten so bad that our corporate is looking into ending its union affiliation. No one will be fired, but no union employees will be hired ever again. And the manditory lock-out for strikes has been increased from 90 days without pay to 180 days without pay for a strike and does not guarentee a job position upon return if the employee finds temporary work during the lockout. The last strike that we had lasted 3 day before the issue was resolved. An operator will have to work for the next 8 years before they come out ahead on their pay. For a $75
increase in health care cost these idiots were willing to lose 3 months of pay and possibly their jobs. Its not like we are losing money from product reduction. We have all non-union employees trained enough to work the union jobs and have contractors on standby at the first rumor of a strike.

Funny thing is...whenever there is a strike we tend to have a 15% profit increase. I think unions are giving these guys more than they deserve.
This has not gone through yet. But when compared with the numbers of a non-union site of ours being able to produce more and a better quality product prompted the idea for this change.

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I would be interested to hear about that 1%

by jdclyde In reply to I work at a union plant.. ...

While there ARE exceptions to every rule and you have SOME good workers that just end up in a union, the union quickly breaks them of that if they are to fit in.

Everyone hear about the Ford plant where the front office had to send out a memo to let the thugs in the union know that if they commit a crime of vandalism on non-ford cars in the parking lot they WILL be prosecuted like the crimials they are? This was a week ago.

So, was the 1% something I was wrong about, or was it the "exception to the rule" clause?

Unions create a hostile work environment as well. Go ask any free-lance truck driver what they are like!

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Back in the 70s it was the unions that almost bankrupted Chrysler and......

by sleepin'dawg In reply to This country was built on ...

destroyed American Motors in the 90s. In England, the unions destroyed most of the UK auto industry and in Germany the unions are the major reason why Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi, Volkswagen are opening new plants everywhere except in Germany. The workforce of the German auto industry has declined by almost 25% since the 70s, largely due to excessive demands of the German unions.

Why do you think Mercedes bought Chrysler??? Simple, it was going at a bargain and it is now cheaper to develop new vehicles here than it is in Germany however, if unions keep upping their demands at Chrysler they should be aware that Mercedes owns facilities in many other countries. The jobs aren't locked in here and the union members better be cognizant of that before their union sells them down the river.

The only good thing a union has ever done was to force me into opening my own company back in the 80s and you can be sure there will never be a union in any company of mine as long as I'm there running it. We started with five guys in 88 and today we are over 700 in three different locations. I pay over union scale, provide benefits better than the union and have profit sharing.

Try unionizing my company; go ahead and try. I will shut down and pull up stakes and move elsewhere before I will let any union rat past the front or back doors of any company of mine. I have received threats of bodily harm from unions but as I explained to the last guy who tried that, he might cost me a lot but I will make sure he, as an individual, will lose more. Unions are bullies but when you bring it home to their people on an individual basis, they soon lose interest. I really wasn't too worried because I know most of my people would have voted against the union; there isn't anything a union can give them that they aren't already getting. Unionize?? For what???

Dawg ]:)

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