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Thursday unfunny yuk

By jardinier ·
This is NOT an attempt to reopen the EL thread.

It is however a tragic comment on the mentality of ****** .... I can't complete this sentence for fear of being accused of America bashing.

WASHINGTON (UPI) -- A Gallup Poll released Wednesday suggests about 53 percent of Americans reject the theory of evolution as the explanation for the origin of humans.

Instead, they believe God created humans at one time "as is," the survey showed.

About 31 percent of respondents said they believe humans evolved, but God guided the process. Only 1.2 percent said they believe the scientific theory of evolution and "God had no part."

Researchers said people with lower levels of education, those who attend church regularly, those who are 65 or older and those who identify with the Republican Party are more likely to believe in the biblical story of the origin of humans.

The poll was conducted in September but no margin of error figures or other information was available.

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You have it backwards, mate

by maxwell edison In reply to Not my intolerance, mate

If Armageddon or global war is the scenario, it is these fanatical Muslims who foster and encourage hatred towards all Christains, evangelical or otherwise, and Jews, and..... who will help to make it happen.

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by jardinier In reply to You have it backwards, ma ...

You have it all wrong. The Muslim extremists are NOT targetting Christians, but Western society in general.

So who do they hate? Zionist Jews, and westerners who grow fat on Middle Eastern oil, while they themselves -- because of corrupt (usually monarchal) governments -- remain in poverty.

You would surely know that even though Americans take their Christianity much more seriously than other Western societies, your society has become very materialistic and morally bankrupt.

I will say it again. The terrorists hate Zionist Jews and wealthy, decadent Westerners.

Throughout this period since 9/11, I have NEVER heard any terrorist claim that Christians are their target. In this context you can read "infidels" as Westerners, but not specifically Christians.

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Max, it is the pseudo-intellectual who will lead them.

by X-MarCap In reply to You have it backwards, ma ...

There is no fool like an old fool.

There is a huge difference between Evangelicals and the people who just are jealous of the people they percieve have a bit more than they do.

Why do they target American consumerism as an evil. How much oil does Isreal produce?

Oh, Julian did realize that the monarchies are corrupt in the Mid-East. That is one of the problem that The US is now addressing, but he is complaining about the means.

Why do Julian, and his ilk claim Westerner and Jews are getting fat on the Oil? The Mulims merely bred there, and starved. The real success Israel has had is irrigation. They built something.

That is the problem: Since the late 1940's, Isreal did something and the desert has bloomed. In 1500 years the Muslims have graduated from a nomadic life style to what? The real problem is jealousy. International jealousy and lack of home grown skills. If western interests hadn't gotten the oil from beneath the sands, the oil would have been undisturbed for centuries as the Mid-East has progressed away from Western influence.

IMHO socialism and liberalism are the greatest dangers to peace.

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Where is open minded Julian?

by jardinier In reply to I thought you were open m ...

I used to be open minded, but my brains kept falling out! ]:)

While I have my opinions, in such a matter as this my personal opinions don't count for much because I WASN'T THERE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENED.

However if you would care to visit my blog you will find a poem which expresses my current, totally speculative view of how the universe and mankind came into being.

My view is drawn from Hindu philosophy and Theosophy.

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Are American Christians the only ones whose mentality is tragic?

by maxwell edison In reply to Thursday unfunny yuk

What about Islamic creationism? Is that particular religion, or people who practice it, as split on the issue as Christian creationists versus evolutionists?

What about Hindu creationism?

What about Jewish creationism? Don't the major Jewish denominations accept evolutionary creationism?

What about Shinto creationism, or the religious beliefs of native Americans, native Africans, and native Australians?

How many of these other religions also have people who believe in either creationism or evolutionary creationism? I don't know the answers, and you might be able to pick one that I mentioned to dispel my suspicion. But lump ALL creationists together, Julian, not just American fundamental Christians. And don't forget the Italian Christians, or the Spanish, or Mexican, or eastern Europeans, or South American, or....

According to a PBS documentary on evolution, Australian Young Earth Creationists claimed that five percent of the Australian population now believe that Earth is thousands, rather than billions, of years old. The documentary further states that Australia is a particular stronghold of the creationist movement. In fact, 28 percent of all Australians believe the Bible offers a more likely explanation of the origins of life than evolution, so says an Australian opinion poll.

In the United Kingdom, a 2006 poll on the origin and development of life published the following results: 22% chose creationism, 17% selected intelligent design, 48% selected evolution theory, 13% did not know.

Christians, especially the American evangelical variety, are people you love to condemn for their beliefs. How about judging those other religions and those other people by the same measure? You love to place many others on a pedestal, especially in favor over American fundamentalist Christians, and you often times remind everyone how there are many more of them. So how about calling them the same nasty things you call the American fundamentalist Christians?

Do you agree with the following statement?

It is a tragic comment on the mentality of Australians to realize 28 percent of them believe God created humans at one time "as is".

You're a bigot, Julian, plain and simple. And you apparently take pleasure in hating or despising others. And you're a hypocrite as well, because you won't hold all people to the same standards.

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Creation myths

by neilb@uk In reply to Are American Christians t ...

and other things.

One of the problems that we non-believers have in TR is that we gain ourselves a reputation for Christian-Bashers. In my (our) defense, I would say that's because the only people that we have had to discuss religious topics with are the mainly American Christians who are TR peers. Were there, say, any Creationist Islamic or Intelligent Design-loving Hindu peers with whom I could cross swords then I would be delighted to get stuck in (fatwas excepting, of course).

I will happily, actually unhappily, condemn the 28% of Australians and the 52% of my own countrymen for their lack of knowledge and their inability to think logically around what little knowledge they do posess.

As far as creation myths go, by the way, I would take them a lot more seriously if they were similar. Obviously the Judaeo, Christian and Islamic stories are close because of common Jewish roots but the Hindu myth, for instance, is very different.


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Speaking for myself

by maxwell edison In reply to Creation myths

I've avoided religious discussions for a reason. I've not entered into any such discussions in which I've revealed my own beliefs, or lack thereof, at least not in depth or detail. (Desmond created the universe in his backyard, remember? And I got the name "Desmond" because he was a character in a Beatles song.)

I will say this, however. I'm extremely tolerant of those who have deep-rooted religious beliefs, whatever those beliefs may be. I won't criticize them; I won't call them idiots; I won't call them mentally tragic people. I won't even challenge those beliefs and/or call them myths. I also have as much tolerance for those who don't. I won't condemn or criticize those folks either. I may fall on one side; I may fall on the other side; or I may fall somewhere in the middle. Or, heaven forbid, I might be so confused, that I don't know what the **** to believe. (Is heaven and **** a religious reference in this case?)

And while I may not argue the points made by evangelical Christians, or those to the contrary, I will certainly argue their right to believe in those points. Personally speaking, I don't care what anyone believes -- AS LONG AS they don't force those beliefs on me, and/or infringe on my life or my belief system because of it.

That statement alone, would make me fall on the side of the argument that suggests creationism does not belong in the public schools as a forced part of the curriculum. However, I take it a step further and ALSO suggest that creationism and/or intelligent design should be a choice in public schools, since the customer (the taxpayer) pays for that education, they should have a choice as to the belief system instilled in their own kids, and they should get what they want and pay for. While it could certainly be argued that the creationism people are forcing their beliefs on others, it can also be argued that the anti-creationism people are also forcing their beliefs on the creationism people by taking their tax money and not delivering a product they want. Neither should force their views on the other; and neither should force the other to pay for it. Both sides are right, but for some reason they can't find a common ground. And they can't find a common ground because the premise is flawed, the premise being the way our public education system is structured. And that is what should change. Unfortunately, the anti-creationism folks don't want to change that either, at least not in the way I see the issue being debated.

However, the intent of this discussion, as started by our Australian friend, was to attack and criticize a group of people simply because of what they believe. No more, no less. It's not to argue whether it's a scientific belief, or religious belief, or a philosophical belief. It was not to debate whether or not it should belong in the public school system, and/or in which department it belongs. It was not intended to try to understand those with opposing views. It was intended to attack and criticize, and it was intolerance personified.

And you don't appear to be much better. You said, "I will happily, actually unhappily, condemn the 28% of Australians and the 52% of my own countrymen for their lack of knowledge and their inability to think logically around what little knowledge they do posses."

Like I said, I won't condemn either one of you for what you may or may not believe. And just because someone might want to talk about it or write about it, that isn't sufficient enough reason for condemnation. After all, I don't have to listen or read it; and neither do you.

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A proper answer will have to wait

by neilb@uk In reply to Speaking for myself

- it will have to wait until tomorrow. "you don't appear to be much better" does requires some comeback as I don't believe that condemning wilful ignorance is necessarily a bad thing.

I also really want to answer your "choice in public schools" point properly if our differing perspective and culture lets me get my point over.

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And speaking of logic

by maxwell edison In reply to Creation myths

You said that you, "....will happily, actually unhappily, condemn the 28% of Australians and the 52% of my own countrymen for their lack of knowledge and their inability to think logically around what little knowledge they do posses."

Specifically, ".....their inability to think logically around....."

How ironic is that?

And how "logical" is it (or illogical, in this case), to challenge one's belief system in such a way?

As long as no one is FORCING a belief system onto the other, it seems much more logical to just live and let live.

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Kick him once for me!

by X-MarCap In reply to Are American Christians t ...

Besides that, he lacks the wisdom to see humor... when it is directed at him...

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