IT Employment

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value of certification

By Lumbergh77 ·
I'm pondering whether or not I should get certified. I'm a jack of all trades with skills in programming, tech support, networking, and databases and have almost 6 years of experience with a BS degree in Info Systems. I thought about going through the certifications process and getting the A+, MCSE, and MCDBA. This would take an entire year and cost around $2000 for training materials and tests (employer will not pay). Is it worth the time and money investment? Why not just study the books, go through the material I'm not familiar with (skipping stuff I'll never use), and forget about taking the tests? Wouldn't the be better spent working on side jobs and/or getting another degree to fall back on?

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what certification gets you

by sailor_12801 In reply to value of certification

Are you planning on entering the job market? If so know this. I was out of work for 15 months. When I was hired I was told I was hired on the basis of personality!! BUT if you want to get past personnel and screeners (especially in a tight market) you must meet the specs on paper. I got in the door several times based on my MCSE...nothing else.once you're past them skill etc takeover. No MCSE??? personnel files your resume no matter what it says. BTW almost 90% of the postings I scanned wanted some sort of certification. Do your own research and decide just look at the job postings

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Personelle and screeners

by Oz_Media In reply to what certification gets y ...

No matter what the AD says, if you submit your resume and personal ino to these people you will always have problems getting in the door.

I prefer the reverse application scenario, I have been very successful in sales due to my ability to NOT deal with such people and ONY deal with the owner, president CEO etc. MOST people in these positions have no idea that the HR staff is taking the easy way out when hiring and just doing a review of certs to find a candidate. More often than not, the 'upper management' are the ones who will hire based on experience and 'feel/fit/personality, that's how they work and succeed themselves, most are former salesmen and respect that approach, HR does not.

What you need to do is PHONE the CEO (or person in charge) directly. Can't be done? Yes it can, and I can prove you wrong any day on that one, it's easy and I've done it for years in sales positions, it just takes a bit of practice to get names and get past gatekeepers.

We had a challenge here once to see who could get past Jim Pattison's gatekeeper (and she's GOOD!) and get a live call with Mr. Pattison himself, 7 out of 12 in the class got through within one week.

After you have spewed your 'pitch' at the right person, you can often get a direct interview without HR's interference. If not, you get the CEO to 'transfer' your call directly to the HR department. Them getting an applicant passed directly from the boss will always get you noticed and considered despite what your paperwork says.

Working top down in an organization is MUCH MUCH easier than workig from the bottom up. You always get seen,you always get considered and you ALWAYS get a live interview where you can further sell yourself if you pt=itch the right person.

Finding work can be harder than the job itself, it takes a lot of phone work, company research (to work on your 'pitch'), and a thick skin. Or in a nustshell, finding work is a sales job. Become a good salesman and you can sell yourself anywhere.

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to Oz and the other guy

by secure_lockdown In reply to value of certification

seriously, you guys been lisenting to Tony Robbins' way too much. none of it is true man!.

the world is a mean, cold, greedy & back stabbing place. all jobs, promotions and money it gotten by who you know. and if aren't in the "in", you are pretty much screwed like everyone else.

Oz, you know damn right, that if you were busy making tons of cash, you would not be wasting your time on TR. same goes for me, if i could get as many clients as I wish I had, i would be long gone from here and too busy making money.

why the B.S.?

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Wrong assumption again

by Oz_Media In reply to to Oz and the other guy

YOu are so assumptive in your posts, you think that everyone thinks and feels just like you do, that everyone se the same ISSUES with the world that you do and now you are contradicting yourself.

First you assert that specialists earn more money, then you claim to have an idea of how I think, what I want and what I would do. Then you back those comments by asserting that it's not what you know but who you know!?

" am a jack of all trades. and i watch specialists get paid 10x what i get paid and they don't have to know 1/10th of the broad knowledge I have to know to keep up with my job performance requirements."

specialists in LotusNotes, Peoplesoft, SAP, IXOS, Cognos -- you name it. all the BI app specialists will out salary you any day of the week with their eyes closed.

so why don't you quit selling CompTIA advertizing and get yourself a *real* job in the *real* IT world.

Oz, sorry but you are out to lunch on that one. You haven't really worked in IT - have you?

If you did, you would have noticed that most of the money is being made by the people *not* doing the IT work. The *actual* IT work is being done by people who are getting paid a miserable salary.

And now finally backpeddling,

"all jobs, promotions and money it gotten by who you know. and if aren't in the "in", you are pretty much screwed like everyone else."

Priceless!!! All in the same thread.

Money, I earned more money at 17 than I do today. I COULD have stayed in Vancouver and played the corporate GAME, I also had offers to move East and play the coporate game. I CHOSE not to.

I COULD go out and work hard drumming up new clients, I CHOOSE not to as I make a comfortable living doing whatever I choose to each day, whether fixing a car, consulting and providing IT support or working on band promotions to increase sales.

I am NOT American, I don't think the future lays in my wallet, I much prefer the tranquility and quite life of just living where I do and living humbly.

I HAVE done the coporate joke, I have played the ladder game, I have had greater opportunities that I turn down. I believe in doing what I am happiest doing each day, not what I have to do to earn more money. YOu can make JUST as much and more by just having mutiple talents and doing a bit of everything.

Now to correct your latest statement, I was the one saying that it isn't what you know but WHO you know or HOW you sell yourself to the right people.

YOU on the other hand instisted that certified specialists will always make more money and have more opportunity than a jack of all trades, which is complete BS.

I have beaten out more than my fair share of far more qualified candidates for positions because I network and market myself, and as a result I have built a great pool of people that are , as you say, 'IN'.

This was not a result of going to school though, it was a result of performance, trust and integrity.

P.S. Tony Robbins is a great example of how you can't see what you are talking about.

First of all, you are intent on proving that certifications create success. To enforce this point, you tell people with a positive attitude that they have been watching too much Tony Robbins.

This doesn't make sense, are you stryin gto say that he is NOT successful and that having a positive attitude is NOT a way to success by pointing out HIS failure to do so?

There's one thing about people like yourself that always rings true though. If you think that you won't succeed, you are ALWAYS correct. It is because of peple that, like yourself, have GIVEN UP that the rest of us are able to succeed.

I can prove a naysayer wrong everytime, but a naysayer can always prove himself correct too.

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a few points of correction

by secure_lockdown In reply to Wrong assumption again

#1 - i clain IT specialists make more money. i never said it had anything to do with "certifications". when i refer to specialists, i refer to job duties. the guy does not go around making anything that is computer related work. the guy just does one thing. it's usually on a speciality application.

#2 - Tony Robbins makes money by selling poor people who have no options and no money to begin with a "product". i find that wrong. but thats just me.

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Isn't that the American way though?

by Oz_Media In reply to a few points of correctio ...

Making a profit regardless.

It seems people and customers ae definitely secondary when it comes to making money nowdays.

NO you never said certified people at all and I did misquote you. You did infer that specialists will be more successful though. NOw you show me a computer SPECIALIST that works for a high salary on ONE key task that ISN'T certified. Specialists hit specialty positions because they are specifically trained for them and simply have no interest or in many cases can not do anything else. I see this as a closed door, not an opportunity, regardless of income.

Tony RObbins? Sure he makes more momney of telling other people how to become rich, that's called motivational speaking and with todays society it makes the speaker seem like some form of messiah. Watching the hoards that follow Tony and Tom Vu (remember him, with all the beautiful women because everyone else was a LOSER? :) ) makes me think that people in biblical times would have followed ANY good speaker with a vision and dreams. Watching how people cling to hope really makes it harder and harder to believe that Jesus was anyone other than a visionary with a good public speaking ability to gather hoards of followers. Couple that with multiple translations of biblical scriptures where SOME people say the translation is 'walked BESIDE water and not ON water" makes it all seem very human afterall.

Sorry for the segue....

Tony RObbins doesn't sell anything to people without hope. HE sells a very truthful principal that ALMOST anyone can take advantage of, if they have the drive, motivation and ability to put it together and follow through.

Just like Amway, I know MANY people who have made a small fortune, several multi millionaires from Amway. I made a few grand a month near the end of my teens selling their products commercially, but never had the interest in going further with it, but it is possible. Poeple say it USED to be possible but can't be done now etc. etc. BS, you can make it if you WANT to.

Tony Robbins doesn't LIE per se, he just fills people with grandiose dreams that many have NO HOPE of ever reaching as the are simply THE WRONG PEOPLE. I personally can't stand the guy, he's worse than the cheesiest used car salesman but some think that's appealing I suppose.

Happy Holidays to you and yours.

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the other guy

by apotheon In reply to to Oz and the other guy

Who is "the other guy"?

By the way, letting your "arguments" devolve into "You're lying! You have to be, just because you disagree!" isn't helping make your position look much better. Why are you taking all this so personally?

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by secure_lockdown In reply to the other guy

i never said you are lying.

But I am convinced that Oz smokes dope while he types. wheather its for medical reasons or recreation, that I am not sure of yet.

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you're confusing

by apotheon In reply to

I never suggested that you said I was lying. You do seem to be calling Oz a liar an awful lot, though.

I'm still not sure who you meant by "the other guy", though I'm beginning to get the feeling it might have been me.

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by secure_lockdown In reply to you're confusing

na, i just think Oz is peddling some sort of scam onto unsuspecting people trying to get into IT.

you got to wonder about a guy who claims technical know how - yet never posts anything on the technical forums.

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