General discussion


vista...whats all the hate for?

By Norehca ·
Its starting to get to me a bit. I respect your opinions, but im seeing alot of hate towards windows vista. I see nothing wrong with it. It works perfectly fine on my computer. It only took me a couple days to totally learn vista, so why are people talking about relearning vista. Yes it doesnt support certian programs and drivers. I expected so. What about the manufacturers of your hardware? I think they should be making drivers for vista. I think they are to blame as well. They knew it was coming, video card companies like ati and nvidia were ready. they even had drivers for the beta versions of vista! ANd i also dont think windows Vista is like mac osx. I have used it quite a bit before and i dont see like any similarites. It seems to me Microsoft is adding features that people like that are in other OS's.

Ive used Windows VIsta and i love it. Ive only had minor problems wih sound card drivers amd a few apps. I expected this and so i simply dual booted my system with xp and vista. ANd eventually Vista will take out XP and become the standard, just like xp took over 2000. Why do you hate vista? im not sure i get it.

For the sake of discussion why do you like or dislike vista?

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Amen to that

by blarman In reply to More past experience then ...

My biggest gripe: as an admin, why does Microsoft insist on changing the admin consoles (and interface) every flipping new version? And it isn't just new features on the consoles - they MOVE the consoles. I don't really want to spend a couple thousand bucks and weeks of time becoming MS certified just so I can figure out where to tweak network settings.

So yeah - it isn't as much hate for the product as frustration over listening to all the new features and going "crap - there's another thing I'm going to have to 1)find and 2)deal with."

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Ah, let me help you..

by magpie_z In reply to Amen to that

Click the start button, type in "computer" or less, and the list will give you the short cut to the computer management consoles.

I know it is hard to do, but give it a try. Two clicks and type compu... in the line will get you there. Phew, and it didn't cost you a couple thousand bucks to learn and in less than 30 seconds.

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NO NO NO That's not acceptable

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Ah, let me help you..

It's those terrible Unix/Linux OS's that you need the Command Line for Windows can do everything with the GUI.


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Not sure if you can call it that..

by johnfatz In reply to NO NO NO That's not accep ...

since it is just a really quick search engine for program names, docs, etc. But I did find that if you search for the command line such as cmd, if you just type it and hit enter it will start the command prompt window.

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With XP and 2003 I couldn't live without the CLI

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Not sure if you can call ...

But I'm constantly amazed by the number of people who insist that it's no longer needed by the Modern Windows where everything can be done in the GUI. I've yet to find a way to Ping a Machine or run NSLOOKUP and many of those other useful commands that are available for us to use.

When I'm working on a new installation I place a shortcut to the CLI on the Desktop so it's within easy reach for when it's needed and once everything is working properly delete the shortcut as the end users have no need of this.

From past experience I always find that it's the End Users who claim that the CLI is a thing of the past as they honestly know no better but they at the same time deride Unix/Linux/BSD because there is a Command Line Interface Available to use and it's necessary to use it as well.

But what's even funnier in XP and W2003 if you look in the Programs Menu under Accessories the Command Prompt is listed there. Just goes to show how deeply into the menu system they look. :^0


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I love my new car, but I have to keep my old car because...

by TechExec2 In reply to vista...whats all the hat ...

If you feel you have to keep your old car because it does important things for you that your brand new car cannot, the new car has a major problem. It's always amazing to me the lengths that people will go to justify their position and that they are on the "winning team", when the truth is something else.

Ok, Norehca the young student. Learn this: Don't be a sap. Don't go along with what "they" tell you because "they" ALWAYS LIE TO YOU. Always and without exception, but the lies might be smaller sometimes. Do your own analysis, look at things objectively, and make up your own mind. Never repeat to others what "they" tell you, and never support someone else's agenda. Feel good about yourself because of what YOU do, not what group you belong to or identify with. And, who are "they"? It's not just Microsoft. Don't follow Microsoft or Apple. Don't follow Republicans or Democrats. Don't follow conservatives or liberals. Don't follow GM, Ford, or Toyota. Think about it. "They" WANT you to follow them and all of their marketing is designed to accomplish that.

Don't be a sap.


Your own words give you away.

"...I see nothing wrong with it. It works perfectly fine on my computer...."

Really? Your own words contradict this.

Love Vista all you want. I love Vista's new UI and new features too (e.g. search). But I hate the fact that Vista does not work well with my software and hardware and that I cannot upgrade to it. After this much time since XP it is inexcusable. Microsoft's grade for this release: F.

"...And id really love to see any of you vista haters make your own operating system...

I'd really like to see MICROSOFT make a better operating system and work better with ISVs. How many BILLIONS more than you do they make? How much is enough? Longhorn/Vista has been a moving target for FIVE YEARS!! Today's Vista is very different than Longhorn was in the 2001, or 2003, or even 2005 Professional Developer Conferences!! ISVs and IHV's are not at fault when their products don't work well with Vista. Microsoft is. Microsoft makes more money than any other software company in the world. They drive the other software companies out of business using dirty tricks, unethical, and illegal behavior. They can and should do better by their customers and "partners" than this. Remember, Microsoft was found GUILTY of illegal monopolistic conduct and has lost MANY BILLIONS of dollars in lawsuits. See what kind of company you are supporting and identifying with?

"...Yes it doesnt support certian programs and drivers. Whatd you expect?..."

I expect everything I already invested in at great expense to work. Period. When you upgrade an IBM mainframe operating system, the applications you already have still work. Period. You should expect nothing less from Microsoft. You just don't know any better because of lack of experience. It CAN be better. Microsoft's release of Vista in this condition and lack of good ISV and IHV support is DISGUSTING. Grade: F!!

"...i plan on keeping XP in here for gaming perpouses as i seem to get a few good extra fps on my games. Not to mention some of the games dont work, like my favorite MMORPG Rappelz..."

If this is enough of a problem for you that you CHOOSE TO KEEP THE OLD OPERATING SYSTEM AROUND, then Vista is BROKEN, BROKEN, BROKEN. There is no other way to describe it.

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by Norehca In reply to I love my new car, but I ...

first of all, yes i am a student. but for the past 5 or so years i have been studying computers and the way they work non stop. I have repaired and built countless pc's, have had more than enough experience with windows, and ever since about 2 years ago have used a little bit of linux and mac os x.

you sai dnot to listen to what other say or some mumbo jumbo, and do what i want or something to that nature. To begin with a car is different than an operating system. Can you put your other car in the trunk of your new one and simply take it out when you please? Not quite. Many people have multiple things for certian reasons. I know some people who have 5 bikes, who have one bike with snow tires, one with 5 gears, one with 4, etc. and pick and choose depending on the situation. Some people even have two different cars for different things. Some people will have a mini van to drive there children around, and a 1972 pontiac trans am to cruise around for fun in. One is better than the other in certian areas. I simply use Windows Vista more for internet browsing, tv, and simply to have a more pleasurable experience with the beautiful theme and features. That is what i chose to do and im sure many other people have done the same. I am simply slowly upgrading to Vista by keeping both OS's on my hard drive. As i see Microsoft coming out with more updates, and i notice the OS to be acting more stable etc. I will eventually take XP off of my computer and switch fully to Vista. And another note. Windows XP still has problems with older applications such as my Mechwarrior 2 game, and Wing Commander. Vista has the same problem with older applications as well and im sure there working on that.

As far as doing things illegal, i dont even look at that. Im sure even you commit legal acts of piracy etc. Everytime you copy a CD or game for someone, anytime you download a song for free. Anytime you get any type of software without paying your doing something illegal. Any computer junky would do so atleast once.

I still believe hardware makers should be at some fault for the lack of vista drivers. They knew it was coming, they should have been ready. You CANNOT expect Microsoft to be perfect, and i believe they did an excellent job. So far the only vista drivers ive seen are for my video card. Everyone else seems to be relying too much on Microsoft. Bill Gates is not a god. The IT people are only human. There are just too many devices. You cant expect Microsoft to cover them all.

As far as Vista being broken, i think not. Not at all. So far Vista in many ways is alot better than XP. It has yet to crash on me, no apps have crashed except for one and it was wuickly terminated by the classic ctrl-alt-delete. It looks nicer, runs great, has more features, and is more user friendly in lot of ways. XP on the other hand. I have many problems with constantly. Such as programs randomly crashing, tasks not ending when i tell them to, slowness after exiting large applications such as games which go on for sometimes minutes. Vista simply needed a little more work, and im sure they felt VERY pressured in getting it out.

You obviously hate Vista. But think of this: Would you hate it if you had a machine that was fully compatible with Vista? But im sure you would say it's Microsoft's job to make it work on your computer. Maybe you should get some hardware that works with THERE product. Microsoft is not your *****.

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Actually it is M$ Fault

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to huh?

As of May 22 2006 they where finding 5,000 problems per day in Vista and working hard to correct those.

They couldn't approve Hardware Drivers for their new OS because they didn't know how it was going to work and couldn't tell the Hardware makers either. As yet there have been very few Drivers for Hardware Digitally Signed by M$ because they have only recently released the Code for the Hardware Makers in Late December for the Standard Vista Platform to work properly on and that was only the 32 Bit version as yet there is no release for the 64 Bit Version so that Hardware Makers can make drivers get them approved by M$ and then sell them.

Vista seems to be a bigger Dogs Breakfast than XP ever was and is comparable to ME and we all know what happened to that misguided attempt from M$ don't we?


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by Norehca In reply to Actually it is M$ Fault

I hated ME. There was nothing good about. Probably the most unstable OS ever. Vista does not compare. You must have had some really bad experiences with Vista to even compare it to ME.

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There is right, and there is wrong. You need to learn this.

by TechExec2 In reply to huh?

"...As far as doing things illegal, i dont even look at that..."

You should. This speaks volumes about you. Maybe you should stay a student and consider a career in academia. I would never hire someone with your ethics. By the way, you CANNOT hide your lack of ethics. They always find out eventually.

As far as Microsoft is concerned, they are a convicted company. And, Bill Gates does not get a pass from me just because he is giving away billions of dollars to charitable causes now. Every single one of those dollars has someone's blood on it. Those are ill begotten gains.

"...Im sure even you commit legal acts of piracy etc. Everytime you copy a CD or game for someone, anytime you download a song for free. Anytime you get any type of software without paying your doing something illegal..."

Nope. No pirated software or songs. Never. None. It's called ethics, boy.

"...As far as Vista being broken, i think not. Not at all..."

By your own admission, considering how little you use Vista, of course it's not broken for you. If you had real applications to run and real work to accomplish, you might think differently.

"...You obviously hate Vista. But think of this: Would you hate it if you had a machine that was fully compatible with Vista?.."

Nope. I don't hate it. I don't love it. It is simply inadequate right now.

My biggest issue is software. This is a Microsoft problem. They created the platform. Then, they broke it by changing it in such a way that legitimate applications no longer work with it. Vista is simply incompatible with some vital software that I run.

As far as hardware, I could throw money at more hardware and solve the problem easily.

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