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vista...whats all the hate for?

By Norehca ·
Its starting to get to me a bit. I respect your opinions, but im seeing alot of hate towards windows vista. I see nothing wrong with it. It works perfectly fine on my computer. It only took me a couple days to totally learn vista, so why are people talking about relearning vista. Yes it doesnt support certian programs and drivers. I expected so. What about the manufacturers of your hardware? I think they should be making drivers for vista. I think they are to blame as well. They knew it was coming, video card companies like ati and nvidia were ready. they even had drivers for the beta versions of vista! ANd i also dont think windows Vista is like mac osx. I have used it quite a bit before and i dont see like any similarites. It seems to me Microsoft is adding features that people like that are in other OS's.

Ive used Windows VIsta and i love it. Ive only had minor problems wih sound card drivers amd a few apps. I expected this and so i simply dual booted my system with xp and vista. ANd eventually Vista will take out XP and become the standard, just like xp took over 2000. Why do you hate vista? im not sure i get it.

For the sake of discussion why do you like or dislike vista?

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oh boy

by Norehca In reply to You're obviously a troll.

ok listen, you need to calm down. everybody is getting excited over nothing. and what the **** is a troll?

i made that comment because ive seen alot of people complain about video errors of some sort which ive seen and is because they didnt get the drivers. complaining about something you dont know anything about, thats what i mean.

second about the price, i also hear alot of people complain about the price. that os all that was about.

and about closing the thread. this topic has turned into more of a fight than a discussion. i feel it safe to close it before it gets out of hand.

im sorry if i came off the wrong way. all i wanted to know is what people thought about vista, and it seems like im getting attacked. i told everyone what i thought about it and i seem to be getting alot of crap. can we jus share our opinions here?

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Discussions, debates, opinions .... oh my

by statykserver In reply to oh boy

FYI Unofficial but general description of troll

I don't think anyone is actually getting excited here, but rather people are just expressing their opinions and some bring them with a little more passion than others. To be honest with you your last paragraph of your original post was strongly worded which to some can seem as being a troll and to others just extremely passionate. In either case everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion without intentionally trying to demean someone else.

IMHO I don't think you're "getting a lot of crap" as I only saw one post directed towards you.

Aside from that and moving along I think there are alot of good points here, especially this one "i made that comment because ive seen alot of people complain about video errors of some sort which ive seen and is because they didnt get the drivers. complaining about something you dont know anything about, thats what i mean." Because it can go both ways. You know how some people complain how they could never get linux installed because of drivers, or other errors that they do not fully understand and then they go on about how they hate linux.

Great topic BTW

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Let's examine the facts.

by apotheon In reply to oh boy

"and what the **** is a troll?"
definition of a troll

I'd have linked to the Jargon Wiki, at ursine.ca, instead of the static file at catb.org, but it's down for maintenance for a couple days right now.

In your similarly trollish thread, Linux or Windows, you started out sounding like sweetness and light, then said "Windows on the other hand is easier. I dont care what you Linux lovers say, its true." That's pretty trollish behavior.

"i made that comment because ive seen alot of people complain about video errors of some sort which ive seen and is because they didnt get the drivers. complaining about something you dont know anything about, thats what i mean."
You called anyone who had video trouble with Vista "computer stupid" and told them to "stick to XP" and "don't complain". The fact you found drivers and, in your case, they worked in no way means that someone else who had more trouble than you is stupid. That was pretty damned trollish of you, too. More so than what you said to start the other discussion thread, even.

. . . but wait, it gets better:
"it took me 3 hours to install drivers on Ubuntu and required many many lines of code (and it didnt work)."
I'll now repeat, with modifications for context (and spelling and grammar), exactly what you said:

"Oh, and by the way, if you're getting video errors it's because you have no knowlege of computers and didn't go to your video card vendor's website to get the latest Linux drivers! If you're computer stupid, stick to Windows -- don't complain please."

Sometimes, the only way a troll learns is by getting his own crap thrown back at him.

"second about the price, i also hear alot of people complain about the price. that os all that was about."
Many people think it costs far too much -- and I'm inclined to agree. Of course, I don't really complain about it, because I'm not willing to pay for MS Windows licenses any longer -- paying hundreds of dollars for the privilege of using an inferior OS isn't really on my list of fun things to do. I bring it up from time to time to make a point, but that's usually in discussions about TCO for businesses.

"this topic has turned into more of a fight than a discussion."
What did you really expect? Really? Are you entirely unaware of the effect calling people stupid and saying "I don't care what you Linux lovers say" tends to have? Are you entirely unaware of the fact you're insulting people and insinuating they're liars?

"im sorry if i came off the wrong way."
I doubt that -- but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. If you stop posting trollish nonsense, and act more like a responsible adult, I'm sure you can overcome your initial bad impression.

"can we jus share our opinions here?"
Sure we can. My opinion is that you've acted a bit like a troll. I'm also of the opinion that this fact does not mean you're unrecoverable. I wish you the best of luck in overcoming that problem.

By the way, if you had trouble with video drivers on Ubuntu, you may want to have a look at Envy.

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ok ok

by Norehca In reply to Let's examine the facts.

alright alright alright. i came off as a troll or whatever. im sorry. can you stop calling me a troll now?

and i dont think that pos ti said about video drivers had anything to do with my linux comment with the drivers. i DID get drivers from ATI and fallowed the only decent instructions i could find word by word and still couldnt do it. and yeah im sticking to windows because of that trouble and other trouble. linux is not for me.

im sorry im sorry im sorry. i will edit my post and get rid of the trollish things i said.

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re: drivers (again)

by apotheon In reply to ok ok

There are three computers in this household running non-Windows systems on ATI video cards, complete with 3D graphics drivers installed.

One is a Debian GNU/Linux box with a Radeon 9800 in it.

One is a Debian GNU/Linux laptop with a Radeon Mobility X300.

This machine is a FreeBSD box with a Radeon 9200 in it.

Surprisingly, the FreeBSD system had the easiest driver install, but they were all pretty simple. As such, I'd say that either the "computer stupid" comment applies to you or it applies to nobody. I'm inclined to say it applies to nobody, just because a driver didn't install -- but if you insist on someone being "computer stupid" because a driver wouldn't install, I guess I'll just have to lump you in with it. Your choice.

Giving up on another OS just because of problems you had with one or two installs -- for bad luck, basically -- is your right, of course. It's not the approach I'd take, though (and if I did I wouldn't ever have used Windows either, probably).

Also . . . I wonder why the 3D driver was so important to you, anyway. It took me more than a year to get around to installing the proprietary 3D driver on one system I had because I never had need of it. Unless you're playing Windows games via Wine/Cedega, doing 3D rendering for computer animation, or something like that, it's not necessary -- though some people really want to run Beryl/XGL so their desktop environments put the cheap theatrics of the Vista interface to shame, I guess.

I, for one, choose Sawfish or WindowMaker as my window manager, because I'm more interested in being productive than playing with eye candy.

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by Norehca In reply to re: drivers (again)

well actually i do use linux still. Ubuntu that is. I use it for its firewall. I browse the internet on it, and use it for its free applications. I think one of the best parts of linux is the free alternatives to some realy expensive windows applications.

Yes i did try to play games on WINE. So i was trying to to install the drivers. Im sorry i said computer stupid.BUt you do have to admit, it is alot harder installing drivers on Linux than Windows, dont you think?

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That depends whether you're computer stupid

by Absolutely In reply to ah

If you know what to do with the command line, there are just a few steps for most Linux hardware packages. If, on the other hand, you don't know how a computer does what it does, you'd better stick to Windows & Install Shield Wizards, including the extra time each new program install requires. Linux takes time to learn. Windows takes more time to use. The choice is yours.

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not really

by apotheon In reply to ah

"BUt you do have to admit, it is alot harder installing drivers on Linux than Windows, dont you think?"
Not really.

Most of the time, the drivers I need are available either already in the kernel or via the package manager for the distribution I use. It's only in rare cases (such as proprietary 3D accelerated graphics drivers) that I have to install them separately.

Meanwhile, on MS Windows, one has to install drivers via CDs for almost every single piece of hardware in the system. The only common exceptions are on systems with OEM installs of MS Windows. Sometimes, when installing a driver on Windows, I run into problems with the install -- such as Plug and Play interfering with the hardware vendor's driver installation process.

In other words, I tend to end up with major annoyances with Windows drivers about as often as with Linux drivers. It just seems to some people like drivers are easier to deal with on MS Windows because they have to install drivers separately more often, so that of all the times they have to install drivers the problem cases are a smaller percentage of driver installs. With Linux, people don't notice the drivers with which they don't have problems as much because they never have to install them at all.

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WOW !!

by Aaron A Baker In reply to Let's examine the facts.

Well said Apotheon, well said indeed.
Succinct, to the point and bang on right.
I tip my hat to you.
Well done

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by apotheon In reply to WOW !!

I appreciate the compliment.

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