Software

General discussion

Locked

What About Global Warming?

By FluxIt ·
I read through several Global Warming threads and saw many things that were curious. Then I came across this article:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

While I have not made a decision on the human contribution to Global Warming, I have a tendency towards a neglible impact. I believe that Global Warming is a natural process and that the natural has a greater impact on the climate than human influence. Certianly, humans cause an impact but it is usually a whisp in the spanse of time and space.

What do you think about the article?

This conversation is currently closed to new comments.

Thread display: Collapse - | Expand +

All Comments

Collapse -

deepsand: given, that motives can lead to bias...

by Absolutely In reply to YEP and also here I alway ...

depending on the character of the scientist.

Well, Absolutely, given that motives can and do lead to bias, ...
and that sn53 has clearly stated that he neither understands the science involved nor feels that such an understanding is necessary, all while harping on matters of policy, clearly it is legitimate to suspect that his motives have indeed resulted in a strong bias on his part.


I was speaking specifically to the claim of environmentalists that the global warming debate is only about the science. Oz_Media's commentary on his opponents' motives is contrary to that claim of his "team". I agree with sn53's reply to your claim that he has stated that he does not understand the science. He has said no such thing, the closest being that the science is "merely interesting", which I take to mean that on the subject of global warming science is but a means to an end. Such should always be the case! The purpose of science is not to establish an oligarchy or technocracy, but to learn the truth. When science is subverted to cloak remote possibilities as certain, impending doom, I take offense. I consider it highly probable that such is the case, but am keeping an open mind. Vague, unsubstantiated claims of bias don't cut it with me. I refer you to my dismantling of neilb's claims that Friis-Christensen's research is flawed, and invite you to address that. I also note that sn53 has been consistent about his position (that the debate is primarily about something other than the science) and that Oz_Media has broken from his "team's" stated position.

Collapse -

sn53: Your attempts to mis-represent both your prior posts & mine ...

by deepsand In reply to YEP and also here I alway ...

is pathetic.

Grow up.

Collapse -

Absolutely: To repeat, I am not here to argue matters of policy.

by deepsand In reply to YEP and also here I alway ...

As before noted, policy must follow the facts if it is to be both legitimate and expecting of success.

sn53's persistent attempts to distract others from the scientific facts is nothing but an exercise in sophistry, one that I will not be party to.

Collapse -

sn53: Address your contradiction or withdraw.

by deepsand In reply to YEP and also here I alway ...
Collapse -

Acid Rain

by sn53 In reply to And, before that, the Ozo ...

deep said, "Never mind that we here in Pennsylvania saw our forests being killed and the paint on our vehicles looking as though someone had doused them with Coca Cola."

I read the National Acid Precipitation Analysis study when it was released a couple of decades ago. Despite the hysteria of that scare it turned out to be largely localized phenomena. And the "dead" lakes had always been acidic because of the composition of the local rock and soil environment.

But the same sorts of people who are riding this 'crisis' rode that one. Their solution is always centered around the forward march of socialism and dictatorship. Funny how that works out.

I will jump on the bandwagon when their goal becomes more individual freedom and less political power accruing to the state and the trans-national organizations like the United Nations.

Collapse -

"largely localized phenomena"? Nothing could be further from the truth.

by deepsand In reply to Acid Rain

The sulphur laden plumes from the stacks of coal-fired power plants in the states to the west affected much of the East Coast.

And, the de-forestation and corrosion of metals had nothing to do with local soil conditions, but with rains bearing suphuric acid.

As for the "dead" lakes, many of those soil conditions that you allude to were and remain the results of mining practices, the same of which can be found to exist today in the western states.

It's time to take off your rose colored glasses and see the world as it really is.

Collapse -

deep's pessimism

by sn53 In reply to Acid Rain

deep wrote, ""largely localized phenomena"? Nothing could be further from the truth."

Just before the decade-long Congressionally mandated study was released that is exactly what a lot of, well, environmentalist-wackos were saying. Then the report was released and the hysteria went away. Funny how that happened.

"The sulphur laden plumes from the stacks of coal-fired power plants in the states to the west affected much of the East Coast."

Not much. Just a few tens of miles around the plants. So deal with the problems locally. There was no need to give taxes to the United Nations. WE just needed to decide what needed to be done to fix the rather small problem and went on with our lives.

"And, the de-forestation and corrosion of metals had nothing to do with local soil conditions, but with rains bearing sulphuric acid."

Even that turned out not to be the case. The effects of local pollution were -- local.

"As for the "dead" lakes, many of those soil conditions that you allude to were and remain the results of mining practices, the same of which can be found to exist today in the western states."

Perhaps in a few cases. For the vast majority of the cases the lakes were naturally that way. And the science stood the test of time.

"It's time to take off your rose colored glasses and see the world as it really is."

Great idea. You need to add a pair. You are far too pessimistic.

Collapse -

Spouting off without the facts.

by deepsand In reply to Acid Rain

1) If the effects were so localized, why did several eastern states seek to sue the EPA for failing to rein in said power plant emissions?

2) If the effect were so localized, why were so many metallic surfaces corroded by sulphuric acid laden rain in so many places separated by great distances from said power plants?

3) If the effects are so localized then why has a cousin of mine had a research position for nearly 4 decades with the Univ. of Illinois related to such?

Do you really believe all that you spew forth, or do you just make it up as you go along?

Collapse -

I'm amazed that this is now only confined to the US

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Acid Rain

Funny thing is that I remember Europe Going through this quite some time ago and they had to take steps to prevent if from destroying the entire group of countries as everywhere in Europe was affected by Acid Rain.

Glad to hear that wasn't the case and the Acid Rain Phenomena is only occurring in the US. What Kind of Id10t are you to come up with rubbish like that?

The bottom line is that Acid Rain has happened every where world wide and the US isn't in some little corner of the world divorced from the consequences of the actions of every one else. So they cleaned up the big polluters and then changed the Petrol used in all cars to Unleaded Fuel which has a Hydrogen Sulphur Dioxide as a component of Combustion. This is quite well known and even the Complete Idiot will accept this when they move into an underground car park and smell the H2SO2 commonly called Rotten Egg Gas form the exhausts of the cars that are running in an enclosed space. Somehow this gas just disappears when allowed out into an open space and doesn't do any damage as it just disappears right?

I still remember a car that meet California's Emission Standards being produced my the company that I used to work for in 1985 and every other car maker was insisting that this was impossible to do as the emission levels had been set way too low. And no that car never made it onto the roads as it didn't have a Catalytic Converter as it was designed properly and was way under the emission requirements that where tagged to be put in place in the Mid 90's. But when by Law a Catalytic Converter was bolted to this car the emission levels went up through the roof as the so called Purification device actually created far more pollution than it prevented, but as the US Government had mandated that every new car required one of these to clean up the Atmosphere they had to supply one and as a direct result the Emission Levels where rolled back and still have not been meet.

But as you now have millions of cars all running on Unleaded fuel I'm supposing that the Acid Rain will all still be localised over the Big Cities so it's not important is it? :^0

Col

Collapse -

Presumably you also believe

by HAL 9000 Moderator In reply to Acid Rain

The Magic Bullet Theory that was according to Congress responsible for the death of JFK right?

Well if you can not trust your Government who can you trust and this coming from the land of Conspiracy Theories is just too funny for words.

Much More Importantly what's the UN got to do with anything? If you are unwilling to clean up the mess that you make you should pay for it yourself. I was taught a very long time ago that you do not Shiite in your back yard as you are the one who has to live with the mess that you make so why is this any different? Blame the UN for something that your Political System is unwilling to accept and then think that giving the UN Money will cure your own problems that's insane by any stretch of the imagination. Though if the UN was to level severe fines for the US's continual refusal to clean up it's act that would be acceptable but both China and Australia would be way out in front of the US in the Fines stakes so what's the problem?

Is it that the US isn't the leader in this mess and nothing more than a bit player? Granted a big Bit Player but even still only a bit player as there are countries far worse than the US who need to do something and AU unlike the US accepts that there is a problem and is starting to do something about it so is China as they have just stolen our Major Wind Power Electricity Generation Company to provide electricity to China and they are now unable to provide the same thing in AU which is what they setup to achieve.

Col

Related Discussions

Related Forums