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  • #2197282

    What makes for great music?

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    by jdclyde ·

    We have had many FNM nights here on TR, where people from all around the world contribute a wide range of music. Some I like, some, not so much, but the people that post it enjoy it very much.

    Music is a very personal thing, so I wondered how much thought people have put into what it is they like, and why?

    What is it that makes music great?

    Is it the composition of the music (writing).

    Is it the lyrics?

    Is it the hook or a catchy beat?

    Is it the vocals?

    Is it the style/skill of the musicians?

    What is it that makes you love a song and KEEP loving it for years, even decades?

    If you have examples of something you like, feel free to post links to the song/music. Unfortunately, imeem has been bought and swallowed up by Myspace, but there is always youtube!

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    Replies
    • #3032315

      Only one thing

      by santeewelding ·

      In reply to What makes for great music?

      Excellence.

      Excellence in any or all the features you cite.

      Same goes for anything or anyone else.

      • #3032314

        After hearing “pop music”, I have to disagree

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to Only one thing

        You are going to have a hard time convincing me that anyone that is a Britney Spears fan or Ensync fan are looking for excellence on the majority of the fronts.

        • #3032267

          As you noted

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to After hearing “pop music”, I have to disagree

          great music is subjective. Why drag pop dogs into it until someone else does?

          :0 No! One of your boys has gone over to the pop side?! :^0

        • #3032246

          The boys like to rock

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to As you noted

          They listen to and love my music. Anything from Zep to Mudvayne.

          Well, ThingTwo does listen to Greenday…. :0

        • #3032192

          Sadly

          by ganyssa ·

          In reply to The boys like to rock

          the Spawn has gone over to the dark side. His name is Justin Bieber.

          I can’t access YouTube from work, but I wouldn’t do that to you guys anyway. 🙂

        • #3032132

          my deepest condolences….

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Sadly

          I know this is a difficult time for you, but you will get through it with support from your friends! 🙂

        • #3032583

          Come on, you guys

          by Sonja Thompson ·

          In reply to my deepest condolences….

          Justin is CUTE, and he actually has a very nice singing voice. 😉

        • #3032560

          Pop-pop, snap

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to my deepest condolences….

          <sing-song voice> somebody’z chewing bubble gum… 😀

        • #3032019

          Drove a convertible ‘Stang around western USA to Dookie

          by drowningnotwaving ·

          In reply to The boys like to rock

          … in 1999 just prior to getting hitched.

          Even more perfect was that I didn’t have a valid licence and my fiance had to do all the driving – LA – San Diego – Vegas – Canyon – up the back of California to Yosemite, SF and back down Highway 1 to LA. Very relaxing.

          Perhaps great music criteria include setting, context and company.

          Perhaps another is whether you are driving or not.

          Whatever – there was nothing wrong at all with [b]cranked up Greenday[/b] on that trip! Plus that covers album of Carpenters hits. Screamed our heads off.

          Excellence indeed.

          edit gramma

      • #3032017

        Sorry mate, have to disagree there too

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to Only one thing

        Most modern music, popular music, has so little excellence it barely registers as music.

        The recording process is simply over driven and overcompressed to offer “acceptible MP3 sound” and nothign else.

        I won’t go on, this would be a very long post if I did, but I agree that while music SHOULD offer excellence in both musucuanship and engineering, most of today’s “music” is devoid of both sucj qualities.

        The bottom line is that kids don’t care anymore. Listening to multitrack Pink Floyd with intense dynamics is not a desire these days, compressing the latest manufcatured jingle is completely acceptable now, from the engineering desk to teh consumer.

        You should see some of the low end garbage we’ve released in North America and had it fly off the shelves in the past few years. Even simply compressing old bed tracks and releasing them as finished material is acceptable.

        It’s sad.

        • #3032011

          I give you filet mignon

          by santeewelding ·

          In reply to Sorry mate, have to disagree there too

          And what do you reach for?

          Ketchup.

        • #3031961

          exactly

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to I give you filet mignon

          Nice rib eye, where’s the HP?

        • #3032010

          So a bootleg mic under the armpits at a gig can’t capture excellence?

          by drowningnotwaving ·

          In reply to Sorry mate, have to disagree there too

          Is ‘excellence’ restricted to some judgement of technical competence?

          Is this what you are suggesting??

          Seems like a harsh definition you have of excellence, Oz!

          🙂

        • #3031960

          It may capture excellence

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to So a bootleg mic under the armpits at a gig can’t capture excellence?

          But the recording itself is anything but excellence.

          My harsh definition is the result of too many years at an engineering desk, trying to reproduce the excellence that comes out of the mikes. I admit that, as an audiophile, I have a very snobbish ear for sound, I hear flaws all the time that my friend’s don’t hear until pointed out to them, then they can’t stand it either.

          I really PO others in the studio when I ask them to edit a track over and over again because they can’t hear two instruments are off the click track by 50 milliseconds, it just jumps right out at me now though.

        • #3031922

          So you’re saying

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to It may capture excellence

          that regardless of the quality of the performance, it’s the quality of the recording that determines whether or not that performance was “excellent”?

          Sounds awfully cold-blooded to me, Oz.

          One of the most awesome live performances I ever heard was bootlegged using a portable cassette deck and the internal condenser mic. The recording sucked, but it allowed the person who recorded it (and me) to relive the original performance several times before the live tapes were released.

          etu

        • #3031808

          Drummers

          by drowningnotwaving ·

          In reply to It may capture excellence

          I had a drummer and producer get into a brawl in a studio once, with the producer screaming (between air-swings, of course):

          [i]Just because you want a “Live” sound doesn’t mean you can make mistakes you furckin moron![/i]

          Plus I know also that when I played in bands I found it near on impossible to go and see another band and just enjoy the gig. Always had to over-analyse every single aspect of the stage, lights, sound, performance and all. Took years to get over that.

          So I kind of get what you mean.

          But sometimes I like the live sound with the mistakes as well! You can take the boy out of the suburbs but … 🙂

        • #3031805

          NN

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to It may capture excellence

          No, thats not a all what I was saying. In fact it is almost the opposite.

          Firstly the question itseslf is ridiculous, secondly I haver ptretty much avoided it due to replies such as yours.

          Unlike IT, there is no definitive answer as to what defines art. You will not get it compartmentalized to be analyzed.

        • #3031762

          Sorry, Oz

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to NN

          I apparently skipped past your title.

          My initial answer is almost the same: I can’t explain what makes music great, but I know great music when I hear it.

      • #3032015

        I’m amazed

        by boxfiddler ·

        In reply to Only one thing

        at how incredibly difficult it is for some to grasp that what you said is, “Excellence makes great music.”

        Unbelievable.

        • #3032012

          It went past them so fast

          by drowningnotwaving ·

          In reply to I’m amazed

          … it seemed to have created its own sonic boom!! 🙂

          One man’s excellence is another’s freedom fighter, or something like that.

        • #3031888

          But it is not always the case

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to I’m amazed

          There are many songs that people love that have little to do with excellence.

          It is like attraction between two people, it just is or isn’t, and can’t be decided on logically.

        • #3031811

          Perhaps it is that, that makes it excellent

          by drowningnotwaving ·

          In reply to But it is not always the case

          … to that person, in that context, at that time.

          At least that’s how I interpreted Santee’s “excellence” in this instance – as completely irrational, subjective and beyond definition as the attraction that you mention JD.

          But it is fun trying! good subject! 🙂

        • #3031729

          For it to reach “excellence”

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Perhaps it is that, that makes it excellent

          it would be a beloved song for more than a few months, but rather decades if not a lifetime.

          I still listen to most of the music I was listening to 30 years ago. I just keep adding to the list.

          For something to “fall away”, it must not have been so excellent, huh?

        • #3031763

          Do you

          by shasca ·

          In reply to But it is not always the case

          Refer to “pants on the Ground”

        • #3031761

          Okay, JD

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to But it is not always the case

          [i]There are many songs that people love that have little to do with excellence.[/i]

          What is your definition of musical “excellence” and why should it apply to me?

        • #3031727

          Something that stays with you

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Okay, JD

          it isn’t just a whim or a fad.

          As I just wrote above, it will stay with you.

        • #3031752

          You asked

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to But it is not always the case

          “What makes great music?”. Not “what makes music people like?”

        • #3031726

          What makes it great to YOU

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You asked

          is how it was meant to be read.

    • #3032303

      I can’t tell you what makes great music.

      by nicknielsen ·

      In reply to What makes for great music?

      It’s probably some combination of all of the factors you list.

      But I know it when I hear it.

      • #3032268

        What does it for you, personally?

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to I can’t tell you what makes great music.

        What do YOU look for in music?

        • #3032254

          It really depends

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to What does it for you, personally?

          For some songs, it’s the voice that makes it. Janis Joplin or Joe Cocker, for example. For others it’s the melody. For even others, it’s the instrumentation or the beat. For almost all, the combination of voice, melody, and instrumentation is what makes it good. It’s really hard to pick out one thing, although I tend to prefer musically “busy” songs such as those from the Alan Parsons Project and the Big Band era.

          Then, there are the songs with such a catchy beat that everybody bops to them, even if they don’t admit it:

          Low Rider – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8mZdSq4MTs

          Brick House – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBx6mAWYPU

        • #3032249

          Funny how tastes can be so different

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to It really depends

          I have never thought either Joplin or Cocker had the ability to “sing”. Is it a generational thing? I have NEVER “got” Dillon, and I don’t think someone like Elvis would get his foot in the door if he were just starting out today, but because he was doing something new……

          A few of my favorite vocalists.

          Queensryche – Jet City Woman (Geoff Tate)

          Judas Priest – Diamonds and rust (Rob Halford)

          Robert Plant – Ship of Fools (Robert Plant)
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc-eDaEZ4LU

          Armored Saint – Last Train Home (John Bush)
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDBBb-CzCM0&feature=related

          Edit to add: I am not saying there is anything wrong with your choices, and I have long recognized there is a difference between someone not liking something, and something being “bad”. The local band I saw last week, the keyboard player and drummer were “bad”. 😀

        • #3032216

          Ditto

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to Funny how tastes can be so different

          I’ve always found Joplin, Cocker, and Dylan’s ‘style’ to be grating. I can take or leave the first two. I love Dylan’s songs but would prefer to hear someone else’s recordings of them; preferably someone who can enunciate.

          I could have listened to Karen Carpenter sing the phone book or the periodic table.

        • #3032131

          Agreed

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Ditto

          Karen could make alphabet soup sound good!

        • #3032179

          Long time Queensryche fan…

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to Funny how tastes can be so different

          Upon browsing my pc, my girlfriend had no clue who they were?but that could be said of most of my collection.

          🙂

          I still feel that Chris DeGarmo is one of the top 5 guitarists ever. I still break out Operation: Mindcrime Live from time to time and listen in amazement. The arrangement, timing and level of talent was just amazing. I like Geoff Tate, but I feel Chris carried the band with his raw talent in my opinion. When I was young and playing guitar, I could pick out most popular songs and play them but I always needs tab sheets for his music. Except for Silent Lucidity. It was beautiful, melodic, simple and the first song I ever learned to play.

          That being said?the recent release of Mindcrime II was a crime against the original. 🙁 The story line was horrible and the musical depth just wasn?t there this go around.

          Armored Saint?! That makes two of us who know who they are! I bought “Symbol of Salvation” on tape 3 times because I played it so much. I just recently got all nostalgic and bought myself a drm free legit copy.

        • #3032128

          Saw QR open up for KISS

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Long time Queensryche fan…

          must have been in 83 or 84, and The Warning had just come out. I had already been playing “Prophecy” on my HS radio show regularly, and then added in MN156.

          And occasionally a special girl would get “Can you deliver?” dedicated to them….. 😀 By the time Symbol came out, I was already on to CD’s. Still have March of the Saints on LP.

          I think it was more DeGarmo’s writing than his playing that gave QR their sound, but yes, I love his playing too.

        • #3032072

          Hm. I was basically uninterested after Mindcrime

          by seanferd ·

          In reply to Long time Queensryche fan…

          I love that one, and Rage For Order. Never been taken with anything else they’ve done.

          Since I never run into anyone who mentions Queensryche when musical interests are the topic of conversation, I just figured I toss by two bits in here.

          cheers

        • #3031959

          LOL

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Long time Queensryche fan…

          Ironically I just got home after listening to Mindcrime in the truck.

          Tate has lost his touch now thogh, last two times I’ve seen him he was out of his league as he just won’t change keys to fit his aging voice,

          Nothing against QR, it happens to all musicians eventually, even…sniff, sniff Halford (though he was in top form for the second leg of the last tour). \m/

        • #3031939

          getting older

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to LOL

          Yeah I loaded up my mp3 player last night with Mindcrime (and AIC Dirt since I was feeling nostalgic) and went to the gym with it after this discussion. I had the strange urge to assassinate local political figures afterward lol.

          Singers have to change as they get older, plain and simple. I caught a show while I was down in Florida once for kicks and giggles. Lynard Skynard and 3 Doors Down. Wow, best accidental performance I’ve ever seen. Those guys put on one of the best shows I have ever seen in person. Blew away many of the “superstar” shows I’ve seen…but I never really saw the superstars in their prime.

          Another live performance I truly enjoyed was Disturbed. Free tickets, so I figured it beat sitting at home that night. They are actually very well talented musically and their live performance made me a fan. I bought their music not long afterward. Their singer will drastically need to adjust his style as he gets older.

        • #3031886

          Priest now and then

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to LOL

          Saw them a few years back and they were dead on, vs in the 80’s when it was more about sex/drugs/and more sex than it was about the music. Now it is about their retirement fund.

          😀

        • #3031797

          Wasn’t priest

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to LOL

          {riest have NEVER been on the sex and drugs trip.

          KK was a bit of a mover and shaker with the ladies but they were never one of those bands. It has always been about the music,

          Halford’s voice gets a lot more post processing these days, hearing it at teh sound desk and then hearing it in the audience are two very different things.

          If you hear him sing archipello, he has to slow down and really work. When he’s on stage, post processing with chorus effects keep him hittings keys he really doesn’t hit himself, without a little help.

          He has learned to drop a key, just as teh band has also, and you don’t really realize it is even being performed in a lower key.

          His voice had become more finely tuned over the last three years though, due to extensive touring with Priest again (Two, Fight and Halford did not help his voice at all).

          In 2006 I was on a few dates with them and it was rough but able to be cleaned at the desk. I was on quite a few more dates with them in 2007 and there was a HUGE difference. The desk did very little work on his voice and instead played with background effects such as demonic tones echoing him through some songs while he nailed the notes. Of the last dozen shows I have been to with them between 05 and 07, their bext performance was in Victoria BC.
          So good they almost entirely stripped his vocal support, as you can hear on their last CD Live Evil.

          But backstage sex and drugs? Not these guys.

          Saturday night I’m hanging with Rob and Steve from Anvil as they wrap up in North America. Oz is here in Canada right now too and the Olympics will be underway, so it will definitley be a serious sex drugs and rock n roll backstage howler with them. Oz is happy because he’s been in the UK long enough to get his drinking up to speed with Brits again, last time Steve drank him under the table in Birmingham. (Oz is really focused as a musician not a drunk though, so it’s always been easier working with his bands).

    • #3032264

      JD

      by santeewelding ·

      In reply to What makes for great music?

      You gots to be one of them dumb bubs in flyover country.

      Don’t you get what I’m saying?

      Great music applies to the varying scores that animate each of us.

      In fits and starts, you are such a one.

    • #3032263

      Melody. Poignancy. Harmonics.

      by boxfiddler ·

      In reply to What makes for great music?

      Just ‘the right’ funk. If there have to be lyrics, I want them to speak powerfully to being. I think it’s being. I might have called it depth in days of yore.

      I like a powerful voice with an intangible unique quality of some kind. Hit the note, don’t slide into it, unless the piece calls for it and you’re really really good at it.

      I’m partial to music of some kinds written in the minor keys.

      Hmmm. Yup.

      etu
      (One of my pet peeves, too)

    • #3032250

      Melody, Lyrics, Skill/Musicianship

      by captbilly1eye ·

      In reply to What makes for great music?

      In that order.
      Although it’s a combination of equal parts of each that make a song memorable.
      For me anyway.

    • #3032248

      Often it seems the lyrics are ignored

      by jdclyde ·

      In reply to What makes for great music?

      how many “slow songs” that everyone slow dances to are actually breakup songs, not love songs?

      How many people know what ZZTop are talking in the song “Pearl Necklace”?

      • #3032247

        The musicianship

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to Often it seems the lyrics are ignored

        I do enjoy skilled playing. That is one of the reasons I am unable to enjoy “Country music”. The majority of it has all the complexity of the Barny theme song.

        • #3032215

          I can enjoy country MUSIC,

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to The musicianship

          it’s the lyrics that run me off. I assume everyone know what happens when you play a country song backwards.

        • #3032126

          I am almost afraid to ask

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to I can enjoy country MUSIC,

          your dog comes back?

        • #3032109

          Basically, yeah.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to I am almost afraid to ask

          The tractor starts running, the bank refinances the farm, the cows hoof-and-mouth clears up, your brother-in-law gets out of jail, your daughter stops drinking, your wife quits running around, Grandma stops chewing tobacco…

        • #3032099

          Got a guy on my dart team that LOVES Country

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Basically, yeah.

          I explained to him MY definition of Country Music.

          Metallica on a back road.

        • #3032195

          That’s funny, jd

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to The musicianship

          I’ve heard country listeners say the same about rock…and they’re both wrong. Country and rock music are both complex. The primary difference between them is the different ways to play the same instruments.

          For example, rock calls it shredding; country calls it picking, but there’s very little technical difference between the two.

        • #3032122

          There are always exceptions to the rule of course

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to That’s funny, jd

          but when I ask the average Country fan to tell me a great guitar player, most can’t.

          When I ask them to name a drummer, most can’t.

          When I ask them to name a bass player, most can’t.

          Most that I have heard is more someone (a hired gun, so it doesn’t matter who they are) playing a ride for filler behind the vocals, usually singing a song they bought from a writer.

          And as for shredding, I am not just talking “screaming guitars”. Dire Straights and Clapton, (solo or with a band) are also examples of non=shredding yet well played music.

          I do love to hear Steve Vai play though. There are a lot of great shredders, but he is one of the most creative I have heard.

        • #3032092

          You’re kidding!

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to There are always exceptions to the rule of course

          “…when I ask the average Country fan to tell me a great guitar player, most can’t.”

          Chet Atkins. Geez, I don’t listen to country music and I’m not a guitar aficionado, and even I can get that one right.

        • #3032105

          Gotta disagree politely bub…

          by forum surfer ·

          In reply to The musicianship

          Sorry for the “bub”, the kids had me watching X-Men/Wolverine all weekend.

          You said you were a fan of Queensryche and Armored Saint. I played some guitar back in those days. While Queensyrche’s Chris DeGarmo had some really complex, in depth musicianship…some of his stuff (silent lucidity) was ridiculously simple. So simple that a 14 year old with a cheesy fm radio could pick it out and play it note for note. And Armored Saint? I was and still am a fan, but their music was inherently simple. The person who put the real musical creativity into the group instrumentation wise was Joey Vera, the bassist. I think Metallica even let the guy audition in the 80’s. Metallica is one of those love them or hate ’em bands, but no one can deny their musical depth even if they don’t like them. They put tons of thought, time, energy and creativity into their music.

        • #3032097

          You can disagree, but that was a different conversation

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Gotta disagree politely bub…

          those were examples of vocalists I enjoy.

          As for music, complexity in and of its self does not greatness make.

      • #3032169

        ZZ Top

        by dmambo ·

        In reply to Often it seems the lyrics are ignored

        I figured it out when I saw a completely unrelated movie on the subject. :O

        • #3032133

          Good for you.

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to ZZ Top

          Now work on Jackson Browne’s ‘Rosey’, from the ‘Running on Empty’ album.

        • #3032121

          Or for something less subtle

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Good for you.

          “love dump” by Static X……

        • #3032060

          Another not so subtle

          by netman1958 ·

          In reply to Or for something less subtle

          Relax by Frankie Goes To Hollywood

        • #3031958

          LOL

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to Or for something less subtle

          Static X, too many funny stories with them. Just reading the name brings me flashbacks of the B stage on the OzzFest tour with Primus and Zombie. I knew they would get picked up right before that tour, and won all bets, despite their lack of longevity.

        • #3032120

          I still remember years ago

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to ZZ Top

          some girl said “oh, he gave her pearls. That is sweet!”.

          :0

        • #3031957

          I have to one up that!

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to I still remember years ago

          And I am actually sharing this???

          I had backstage passes to a ZZTop show circa 2001, they were the oddest passes I’d ever seen. A picture of an eye, a picture of bird and a picture of a sea captain, printed vertically on a stick-on pass.

          After the show, I was talking to Billy Gibbons about his art collection when I heard the guy I was working for having an argument with ZZTop’s PR agent, then he stormed out of the room. They never did get along and I was really into talking to Billy, so I just ignored it and stayed to hang out with their INCREDIBLE looking dancers and the roadies, not knowing the joke was on me the whole time.

          Apparently, as I later found out, their agent was having a laff(at my expense too of course) by leaving us a set of girl’s passes at WillCall.

          The pictures were actually an “EYE” a “SWALLOW” and a “SEAMAN” 🙁

          But they were really cool guys all the same and it was their best show I’ve ever seen.

        • #3031885

          Why?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to I have to one up that!

          because they could….. 😀

          Figured there was a message, and was trying to figure it out before I got to the explanation.

          So, did you? :p

    • #3032217

      I dunno, but I can’t wait until Ozzie finds this one.

      by charliespencer ·

      In reply to What makes for great music?

      Lyrics usually matter to me most; it really gets my attention when someone uses the language skillfully, regardless of subject or style.

      This is followed by musical / vocal skills, then the arrangement. I don’t dance, so beat and hooks are dead last for me, especially when the rhythm drowns out the vocals. That’s the problem I have trying to listen to much current popular music. I’m sure there’s some great wordplay going on there, but I just flat out cannot make out what they’re saying.

      I abhor ‘sampling’; it only leaves me wanting to hear the original the sample was taken from.

      • #3032107

        I was hoping Soni would pop her head in here

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to I dunno, but I can’t wait until Ozzie finds this one.

        being a musician herself, it would have been nice to get her perspective.

        And I don’t care about if someone gets a hit or sells a billion copies, just a personal issue of what makes something click for YOU.

        I get up and dance, but that is more about how cute the girls are than the music, so it does not impact my decision process on what I do or don’t like musically.

        • #3032572

          Soni popping her head in

          by Sonja Thompson ·

          In reply to I was hoping Soni would pop her head in here

          Yes, I’m a musician, but it’s crazy how different the music is that I write/play vs. the music I listen to.

          Music I write and/or learn to play is limited to my guitar skills. So, it’s mostly folk, ballads, and pop music. More often than not, I create the music first, and depending on the feel or the emotion of the music, the lyrics follow. I know some folks write lyrics first, like a very touching poem, but that rarely works for me.

          As for which is more important (music or lyrics), I truly think it depends on the song. I can be extremely moved by an instrumental piece, and I can also get goosebumps by an artist singing a cappella if they have a good voice and the lyrics are powerful.

          Now, on the total flip side, I mostly listen to techno, dance music, and rap/R&B. A lot of techno doesn’t have many lyrics – just high energy beats that play over and over and can (honestly) get a little monotonous. But I absolutely LOVE to dance, and that kind of music can’t help but make me move.

          Ultimately, music preferences are very much an individual thing. The only kind of music I really don’t care for is country, but I can appreciate how much other enjoy it. There’s no good or bad… just different preferences.

        • #3032564

          No good or bad?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Soni popping her head in

          go see some live local bands and you will quickly change your mind! 😀 There are plenty of “bad” examples out there!

          B-)

        • #3032557

          There is no bad music, JD

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to No good or bad?

          Only bad musicians.

      • #3032016

        Sampling

        by oz_media ·

        In reply to I dunno, but I can’t wait until Ozzie finds this one.

        Me too, however it bring back a lot of revenue for older artists and even starts selling their back catalogues.

        There’s no hope of teaching youth what quality music consists of, as they feel quality fits in a compressed MP3 track. Even FM radio (which offers far more detail and dynamics than satellite radio) sounds like complete and utter garbage to my snobby ears these days.

        Face it, if people are happy hearing 128kb music or even worse, satellite radio (comparitively,17kbps)how can they ever expect to heard real music.

        It’s like expecting a MacDonald’s junkie to appreciate a quality, filet mignon. “Where’s the ketchup?” 😀

        The earless are just like those with peasant taste buds.

        • #3032568

          I dunno

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to Sampling

          I don’t think Miley Cyrus, the Black Eyed Peas, or Beyonce would be worth my time regardless of the compression or playback system.

          Incidentally, I have no appreciation for a ‘quality’ filet (or almost any other piece of cow). But I know this, and will politely suggest in advance my host not waste his money on me. I’d prefer a grilled burger, with some bleu or sharp cheddar, a good brown mustard, and a fresh jalapeno.

        • #3032565

          This has turned into a food thread

          by Sonja Thompson ·

          In reply to I dunno

          And it’s making me HUNGRY! 😉

        • #3032437

          Irrelevant

          by oz_media ·

          In reply to I dunno

          Personal taste shouldn’t play a part. I agree that they are talentless and thus there is no excellence involved.

          THis is also why I dimissed the topic as a dead end question already. There is no way to determine excellence in art.

          But any artist will agree, that in order to properly display excellence, if initially present, is to have engineering and producing excellence to do it justice. A monotone photocopy of a Renoir just isn’t going to cut it.

    • #3032204

      For me it’s some sort of emotional contact

      by neilb@uk ·

      In reply to What makes for great music?

      first and foremost. Probably why I’m so fond of good Blues.

      Must admit that I like stuff to be original and well performed. Karaoke – and that includes American Idol and X-Factor – doesn’t do it for me at all. I rarely like covers, however good technically, more than the original.

      Never thought about it before but lyrics come a long way down the list for me.

      😀

      • #3032191

        Covers

        by charliespencer ·

        In reply to For me it’s some sort of emotional contact

        I can only think of a couple cases where I prefer the cover to the original. One is Gladys Knight’s version of ‘The Way We Were’.

        Geez, I guess maybe that’s the whole list.

      • #3032168

        Steely Dan and REM

        by dmambo ·

        In reply to For me it’s some sort of emotional contact

        Those are 2 bands I like, but as far as lyrics go, I rarely have any idea what their meanings are.

        • #3032069

          Ha

          by seanferd ·

          In reply to Steely Dan and REM

          Way back, Stipe used to have some sort of problem with people caring what the lyrics were at all.

      • #3032104

        Covers vs originals

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to For me it’s some sort of emotional contact

        I don’t like a cover that is a copy of the original. The Judas Priest song I linked to further up was a cover, but I love it. It isn’t their usual rocken version, but it is well done (for me).

        I was shocked to learn that the Zep song “when the levy breaks” was a cover to an ancient Blues song when Mojo (Mae’s hubby) played it on cover night for FNM. The original sounds like wet cats in a bag to me.

        • #3032088

          If you think that one sounds different

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Covers vs originals

          Try “Nobody’s Fault But Mine” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW1SRJrNZZw

          or “I Can’t Quit You Babe” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQm6wcafQwE

          The original of “You Shook Me” might sound a little better to you, but I can’t find it on Youtube. This is Willie Dixon (the writer) about 10 years after Muddy Waters recorded it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n7pfNNP2EM

        • #3032082

          I enjoy Blues MUSIC

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to If you think that one sounds different

          but not much of a fan of Blues singing.

          More of a Jazz fan.

        • #3032068

          For whatever reason

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to I enjoy Blues MUSIC

          Female blues vocalists seem to have much better voices than the males. Give a listen to Billie Holiday, Etta James, or Aretha if you haven’t already.

          If you ask me (and you did 😉 ), the best female vocalist out there has for years been Pat Benatar. The woman has a voice!

        • #3031903

          That’s not really fair, Nick

          by dmambo ·

          In reply to For whatever reason

          Comparing Billie Holiday and Aretha’s voices to anyone is like comparing a fine French Poodle to a stray mongrel.

          Diana Krall also has a nice set of pipes.

        • #3031755

          Maybe, maybe not

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to That’s not really fair, Nick

          Some of the classic female blues singers had some great voices: Ma Rainey, Sippie Wallace, Ethel Waters, and Bessie Smith can all compare to Billie and Aretha.

          Shemekia Copeland, Marcia Ball and Susan Tedeschi are some of the great female voices in blues today.

        • #3031881

          I have often said the same

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to For whatever reason

          Pat has always been one of my fav female singers, and was bummed that she never did get bigger than she was.

          Amy Lee from Evanescense has a great voice, and I feel one of the best out today.

        • #3032566

          I believe Pat B. studied opera at a conservatory for several years

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to For whatever reason

          before going into rock. I wish she’d have continued recording; unlike many of today’s multi-octave singers, either Pat or her producers knew when to keep her in check and when to unleash. You don’t need to demonstrate your full range on every song, Whitney.

    • #3032185

      For me, a lot is when it hit me

      by dmambo ·

      In reply to What makes for great music?

      I know you don’t like Springsteen, for instance, but when I was 15 and heard Born to Run and Thunder Road, it’s like he was reading my mind. It was all about getting out and moving on, which I was itching to do at the time.

      Later, when I became more socially aware, U2 and Neil Young fit the bill. I also always liked the jangly guitar, so some of the 80’s New Wave-ish acts like Talking Heads and Elvis hit me.

      On the other hand, Pink Floyd just blew me away when I listened to my older brother’s music. Now, I listen to a lot of Blues. Must be that I’m married with kids 😉

      Edit – Guilty Pleasure from the 70’s – Minnie Riperton, “Lovin’ You”

      • #3032146

        My first

        by boxfiddler ·

        In reply to For me, a lot is when it hit me

        8-track! [i]Born To Run[/i]. Purchased with Jesse Colin Young’s [i]Light Shine[/i]. :^0

        • #3032141

          8-track?

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to My first

          I’ve never owned one. Just one more way in which I failed at life in the 70s.

          I don’t know what the guys I hung with were doing to their players, but I kept hearing the wrong adjacent tracks (e.g. 2/3 instead of 1/2). Nothing quite like hearing the intro to In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida from one channel and the drum solo from the other…at the same time.

          I went straight to cassette.

        • #3032117

          8-Tracks in ’75?

          by dmambo ·

          In reply to My first

          A little late for the paradigm shift, were you?

        • #3032091

          You know it.

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to 8-Tracks in ’75?

          We were of the broke, broke, broke variety when I was young.

        • #3032077

          I missed 8-tracks completely

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You know it.

          Although I do recall going over to Dads and he would have a Reel to reel going.

          In an early car, I remember ONE that had 8-track “sky rockets in flight! Afternoon delighhhighht!”

          From there, it was mostly cassettes and LP’s for him, and I got most of his LP’s when he passed.

        • #3032112

          My first

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to My first

          Kiss Alive II on double LP.

          Second was Alice Coopers Greatest Hits.

        • #3032108

          You’ll appreciate

          by charliespencer ·

          In reply to My first

          my first 8-track being the soundtrack to ‘West Side Story’.

        • #3032096

          ~sigh~

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to You’ll appreciate

          And you said you didn’t dance…..

      • #3032110

        Some people just never did it for me

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to For me, a lot is when it hit me

        Something about the way Springsteen’s style of singing, I have never liked anything he did, still don’t.

        Guilty pleasure, hmmm, will have to think about that one.

      • #3032059

        Last night I watched a recording of David Gilmour

        by neilb@uk ·

        In reply to For me, a lot is when it hit me

        in a concert at the Albert Hall in London. Along with Richard Wright, his guests were David Bowie, Robert Wyatt and Crosby and Nash.

        I ordered the DVD five minutes after it had finished and I’d got my breath back…

        Neil 🙂

        Not a bad gig for bunch of wrinkly old farts!

        When Gilmour’s guitar cuts in the hairs stand up on the back of my neck – just as they have every time I hear it. OK, that pretty much defines what I want from music.

    • #3032170

      How about this? Why does some music become so popular?

      by dmambo ·

      In reply to What makes for great music?

      Take this example from back in the olden times. I don’t think I ever met anybody who would classify himself as a fan of the band Foreigner, yet they were very popular for a few years. I don’t know much about the technical aspect of music, but I wouldn’t exactly call their music nuanced or complex. Who was buying this stuff at the time? I’m sure there are many other examples (Britney Spears??), but this one has always stood out to me.

      • #3032116

        Popular does not always equal Great, or even Good

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to How about this? Why does some music become so popular?

        As for OLD Foreigner, songs like Blue Morning, Blue Day had a good grove. I loathed later on when they started to put out “hits”.

        Foreigner – Blue Morning, Blue Day
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chITGV3ngH8&feature=related

        • #3032078

          Foreigner

          by ganyssa ·

          In reply to Popular does not always equal Great, or even Good

          lost me at 4, which is exactly when all of my friends figured out who they were.

          Sadly, I just learned that Mariah Carey covered I Want to Know What Love Is. It’s on Sirius right now.

      • #3032061

        Another example: Kansas

        by nicknielsen ·

        In reply to How about this? Why does some music become so popular?

        How many people know Kansas released 3 albums before “Leftoverture”? I much prefer those albums to what came later, much as I prefer the early Foreigner.

        • #3031875

          If I could give a “thumbs up”

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Another example: Kansas

          I would. 🙂

          I do like the early 80’s music of theirs though.

          Hold On

          Play the game tonight

          Not a lot of flash, just great music.

        • #3031751

          My favorite early songs

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to If I could give a “thumbs up”

          Sweet Child of Innocence – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_FcHC0GZzw
          This one rocks in that inimitable Kansas fashion.

          Down The Road – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApGw7G9vLHU
          Another rocker

          The title track from Song for America and Incomudro-Hymn to the Atman are also faves, but more for their orchestration than beat, although they rock too.

        • #3031723

          More noise than I am used to hearing from them

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to My favorite early songs

          Sweet child of innocent, more echo and keyboards than I am used to, and down the road just isn’t as clean as I expect out of them.

          Again, just my preferences, based upon my experiences.

          Wow, that is a lot of keyboard driven music. 🙂 I realize that is what was popular at the time. It does kind of make me think of the heavy keys in Uriah Heap.

          Easy living

        • #3031718

          Well, there’s 7 years

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to More noise than I am used to hearing from them

          And the songwriter difference between the albums. Plus, as you point out, the times and musical tastes were different.

          It’s all good. Hey, it’s over four hours past my bedtime and I’ve got Godsmack on the stereo right now.

        • #3032590

          Luv Godsmack

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Well, there’s 7 years

          I do consider Sully a vocalist rather than a singer though, but I really do enjoy it. 🙂

          Am also a big fan of when they do the dueling drums. It is so rare to find an enjoyable drum solo.

    • #3032021

      Music is an inspiration

      by av . ·

      In reply to What makes for great music?

      I think music is great if it inspires you in some way. It doesn’t matter how its achieved. Maybe the song has great vocals or a catchy beat. Maybe the musicians have a lot of style. If you can relate to the song, its great music.

      AV

      • #3031880

        sometimes, sometimes not

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to Music is an inspiration

        it is just curious to me on how people come to their choices, and if they even know themselves.

        And as we have seen here, people look for different things.

    • #3032001

      Watchout “Old Fart talking”

      by steve.hascall ·

      In reply to What makes for great music?

      I Bough a brand spanking new Dokorder 12″ Real to Real. I was rockin Dudes. I used to take my LP’s and record them through the Real to Real and used “echo on”. It would add an echo chamber effect to the sound track, and to me made it way more intense. I over wrote Styx, Deep Purple, Foghat, The original Reo SpeedWagon, Nazareth Foreigner (sorry),38 Special…etc..

      For some reason adding the echo to those early sounds which I already loved made them seem even more magical, and enhanced.

      Also anything Stevie Nixs, Ann, and Nancy Wilson sang at that time was Golden.

      (I warned you)

      • #3031998

        Your warning

        by drowningnotwaving ·

        In reply to Watchout “Old Fart talking”

        … was well merited !!

        REO Speedwagon? Music? Same sentence?

        JUST JOSHIN of course!! 🙂

        • #3031995

          There’s another group

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Your warning

          That released several excellent albums before going pop…

        • #3031993

          The funniest thing

          by drowningnotwaving ·

          In reply to There’s another group

          .. in a discussion like this is someone putting forward their opinion only to have someone else disagree!!!

          To which, I was (tongue-slightly-in-cheek) similarly guilty!

        • #3031878

          Watch the toes as you dance around the room

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to The funniest thing

          No one here is going to be offended by you not liking something they do.

          It is only the ignorant idiots that confuse them not liking something with it not being good. Or as the kids say, “that sucks!” just because they don’t like it. 😀

          Sure, I tease the people that like Country, because I can. B-)

        • #3031992

          Wow.

          by boxfiddler ·

          In reply to Your warning

          I hope so. They’re neighbors… 😀

        • #3031879

          Actually

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Your warning

          they do have ONE song I like, riding the storm out.

        • #3031855

          if I said that I loathe them I meant

          by drowningnotwaving ·

          In reply to Actually

          that I loathe them furrrrrreverrrrrrrrrr

          Sorry. 🙂

        • #3031836

          Heard any of these?

          by shasca ·

          In reply to if I said that I loathe them I meant

          “Gypsy Woman’s Passion” ? 5:17
          “157 Riverside Avenue” ? 3:57
          “Anti-Establishment Man” ? 5:21
          “Lay Me Down” ? 3:51
          “Sophisticated Lady” ? 4:00
          “Five Men Were Killed Today” ? 3:00
          “Prison Women” ? 2:36
          “Dead at Last” ? 10:08

        • #3031812

          Let me guess

          by drowningnotwaving ·

          In reply to Heard any of these?

          A fay-an?

        • #3031767

          Yeah Bigtime

          by shasca ·

          In reply to Let me guess

          In the late 70’s. These days I like…. I Like….. Um less see Pink rocks a little.

          Oh kay I’m done there isn’t hardly anything that doesn’t get old after listening to it say ten times. Thats assuming it may have sparked a bit of interest after couple of plays on the Radio 99.9 kppl.

          I have a free download for 3 songs on MSN Music that I have had for 2 yrs now. I haven’t been inspired to redeem it yet.

          I must be becoming tone deaf…………

        • #3031740

          On that basis

          by drowningnotwaving ·

          In reply to Let me guess

          … my apology for using one of your favourite band’s name in vain even if tongue-in-cheek!

          I should have focussed my ridicule on Toto and Chicago.

          I’ll do better next time. 🙂

        • #3031750

          Steve, you forgot to tell him

          by nicknielsen ·

          In reply to Heard any of these?

          You can tune a piano, but you can’t tuna fish. 😀

    • #3031990

      My hardest problem

      by drowningnotwaving ·

      In reply to What makes for great music?

      … is to be open to new music, and new influences that may not necessarily be new musicians, with the same zeal I had when I was 20 years old. Which is nearly 30 years ago.

      Gets harder every year, but sometimes it’s worth the effort.

      • #3031876

        Call a doctor if swelling lasts longer than 4 hours

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to My hardest problem

        is a “hardest problem”. 😀

        I actually am the opposite, and am MORE open to new music every year.

        I loath rap more and more each year too.

        • #3031807

          In America is it really your privilege

          by drowningnotwaving ·

          In reply to Call a doctor if swelling lasts longer than 4 hours

          to prescribe your own drugs ???!!!

          Is that actually true – you can get onto internet pharmacies and get your own prescriptions?

          If so, with apologies to Santee – EXCELLENT!!

        • #3032589

          No, not true at all

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to In America is it really your privilege

          Any internet sites that don’t require a valid prescription are all outside of the US borders, so regulations are not enforceable, plus you have no way of knowing what you are really getting.

      • #3032555

        Ditto.

        by charliespencer ·

        In reply to My hardest problem

        In my case, part of it is just not caring any more. Music plays a less important role in my entertainment options.

        Part of it is the targeting of radio stations to specific audiences. Maybe I’m misremembering, but I recall the AM stations of my youth playing a wider range of genres than what stations play today. These days you wouldn’t hear a range like Alice Cooper, the Temptations, and Neil Diamond on the same station. I realize those playlists were strongly influenced by the record labels (legally and illegally), but it seemed to make it easier to be exposed to a variety of styles.

        I know the Internet offers a huge number of selections, but I suffer from ‘paralysis by analysis’ and don’t know where to start. Combine that with my overall decline in interest, and that cheap thrill when the radio offers a tune I haven’t thought of in years, and I just can’t motivated about music over the Internet. It just looks like too much work.

    • #3031898

      Music

      by jellimonsta ·

      In reply to What makes for great music?

      Nah! Don’t like it! 😉 :p ;\

      • #3031873

        Yeah

        by jdclyde ·

        In reply to Music

        a regular stick in the mud! 😀

        • #3031872

          Hope you don’t mind me posting this here?

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to Yeah

        • #3031844

          That’s cool…

          by jellimonsta ·

          In reply to Hope you don’t mind me posting this here?

          I am fine with you promoting my band wherever you want. 😀
          In all seriousness, there are many things to me that make a song hit home. Being a vocalist I do focus a lot on the vocals, but pretty much every other consideration mentioned by others is relevant too, musicianship, complexity, composition, performance, hook, beat/ rhythm, etc.

        • #3031819

          And a bad song that hits home is valid too

          by jdclyde ·

          In reply to That’s cool…

          If a song is a perfect fit for something in your life, it just grabs a hold and won’t let go.

          How are things going with the band?

        • #3031818

          Slow going…

          by jellimonsta ·

          In reply to And a bad song that hits home is valid too

          We haven’t had a consistent practice schedule since before Christmas. Things are settling down a little more now though, so we should be getting back into the swing of it soon.
          We need to get back to being show ready. We were ready to play out in November, but have played so little since then, we are not so much right now. :0

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