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Whatever happened to entry-level as I remembered it?

By BrainXpansion ·
I graduated November 2004 from a well-known and established private university. I worked four long years in order to obtain my Bachelor of Science degree in (IT) Information Technology. I was exposed to theory, concept, and procedure in a myriad of fields in the IT sector. Not to "hip" on programming, but I realize I should know at least two languages. The difficulty I am having is landing that "entry-level" position. Sure! The ads in the newspaper state entry-level, but when you read them, they ask for 3-5 years experience. Are there no entry-level IT jobs out there that are actually entry-level as I remembered what entry-level used to be? You know, a "green horn," "Wet behind the ears," and a "newbee."

For example: I went to an interview the other day for IT Help Desk. Some questions they asked me consisted of VPN's, Active Directory, DNS, and even if a node was down on a WAN from Texas to my location, how could I tell what was wrong? I knew what these things where, but to answer them with fixes, I was baffled. I have never been in an IT position before, so I how do I make that transition in order to obtain the hands-on experience? I would like to build Websites, but I only have a basic understanding from school. I have no peers in my circle of friends involved with IT, so it is difficult for me to turn to someone who is knowledgeable. None of my friends understand the things I talk about. All I have are my books, but sometimes even when you read, you reach sticky points in all the techno-babble.

Another thing, my wife says I am too old, they want younger men. I am 42 and interested in making my families life better. I am not afraid of hard work. I am a people person, I have integrity, and I am an amiable guy willing to learn.

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by BrainXpansion In reply to entry level went offshore

Thanks for the verbal support. I will keep at it. I have not heard anything back from an interview for IT Help Desk I went to on Friday, but at least I am learning the questions they ask.

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Keep working at it

by plexislp In reply to Systemsgod

If it's what you really want to do, keep learning and improving
your troubleshooting skills on a continual basis - all while
looking for that entry level job. A couple of years ago I changed
careers from being a professional musician (and an unrelated
undergrad degree) to a full-time IT guy. I had always been
well-versed in computers and could program a little C, but had
ZERO experience. I made cold calls, sent resumes, went to
dozens of interviews, and finally got that call for a temp position
at a small company to help install their first LAN. They had
three people in the IT department. I knew nothing about
networking, but learned quickly and worked hard. For me, if I
wasn't working, I was reading tech articles, books, creating
various scenarios in my home lab, writing code, etc...all to keep
up and improve my skills. Get involved in an Open Source
project - even if you aren't a programmer, you can still work on
documentation. And communication skills are crucial and can
separate you from the pack of applicants. Just keep your head
up and go for it.

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by BrainXpansion In reply to Keep working at it

Thanks plexislp,

I try, but my spouse is a negative force that works against me. She does not understand about IT, but claims to. She wants me to make a great income, but when she is home, she does not like it when I am on my PC. She gives me **** other words.

I know what I have to do, but have you ever had to deal with that type of negativity? It is rough on a individuals spirit.


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sorry for your misinformation

by sachin22022 In reply to entry level went offshore

systemgod, I feel sorry for your mis information. The jobs that are being off shored are only the low wage jobs primarly the contact centre or call centre jobs. I am from India, and am in a better position to answer this query that you have. The jobs as are the so called outsourced jobs are primarly for those who can work in night or odd hours, and as such its very difficult for any person to make such jobs as their "future" career jobs. I ask you, would you prefer doing a job that starts from 9:00 in the night and goes till 5:00 in the morning, and that too when the jobs are more of telecalling stuff not going to benefit freshers in the long run moreso ruining their careers. As regards software and IT, well its been always outsourced not to blame the recent times, primarily because of good IT manpower and IT centric population in this part of the world. The companies presenting slips to their employees happens all over the world and not in West, so don't blame outsourcing for this (not to mention the companies in this part of the world are more of "single project stay" companies who close their operations on the day before the last day of the month so as not to pay their employees with the month's pay leave aside pink slips!!).

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Rough Life

by BrainXpansion In reply to sorry for your misinforma ...

I am sorry to hear that! That is why I am glad I am a citizen of the U.S.A.

I watched a documentry about "The hole in the wall project" in India. It is where they would set up a PC in very rural areas within a wall, but allowed users (the public) to access the mouse and keyboard. It was the children that were the most curious and started to play with it and never took long until they figured out how to surf the WWW.

The Indian people are very open to technology, but the way they treat people that work for companies, shows they have no integrity for their workers.

I am sorry friend!


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re-read my post

by systemsgod In reply to sorry for your misinforma ...

I think if you re-read my post again you will notice that I never offered any reasons for why these jobs have disappeared or placed any "blame" on anything. However, since you chose to offer some points that are way off base, I feel compelled to point out some areas where you are the one dealing in misinformation.

These jobs I am speaking of are not just low paying or unskilled jobs for those who work odd hours (as you suggest). Companies such as Dell have moved almost all of their help desk/ support jobs overseas. Why was this done? Not because there are better quality IT workers in that part of the world (as you suggest), but because they can pay those workers less than half of what they would make here in the US. That's not conjecture or hyperbole, that's a fact. It's really all about the money, and has little or nothing to do with quality. You see, the language barrier between a tech at a call center in Bangalore and someone here in the states is enormous and it severely limits the effectiveness of that technician, no matter how good their skills are. Because we are in a highly competitive time, companies are doing all they can to cut costs in order to boost their bottom line. If they can reduce their labor costs in half by offshoring to Bangalore (or, anyplace else for that matter), they will do it in a heartbeat.

When you respond to posts like these in the future, it may help if you read them more closely before you add your comments. Also, you may want to be sure you have your facts straight too.

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How about this?

by sachin22022 In reply to re-read my post

<quote> "most of the entry level positions in IT have gone offshore, or the way of the Dodo" <unquote>
I think its you who has to re read your own post before blaming somebody else. I am not here to start another battle about offshoring but since you started it, I would request to go through the stats of the companies that have gone into offshoring as against those that didn't. Agreed that some compnies like DELL have outsourced much of their businesses but isn't it a wise move on their part to save money? What if they remain admant and keep paying large sums as wages to employees in their origin countries and then have to shut their operations altogether. Regarding your point that you made for the language of Banglore guys, I need to inform you once again that most operations that are carried out in South India are for email or keyboard processes. Most of the operations for voice are outsourced by companies to North India where the language is not a big problem and guys here know how to speak good english. I agree completely with you that its a competitive world and that, more strongly justifies me saying that the companies are doing right to outsource, I mean I would hold my stance even if Dell at a later date decides to shift operations to third world countries like Phillipines or even Namibia to cut costs. Systemsgod tell me if the operations and businesses would have been outsourced to your country from another country, would you have complained?

And for my friend BrainXpansion, I would say that you can find solace in the fact that just thinking that jobs being outsourced doesn't automatically mean that nobody is unemployed in offshored countries. My friend everybody has to go through the times that you are going and the Mettle of the man comes out only after patience. Take this time as an opportunity to hone up your skills. Take this time as not a phase of "Unemployment" but a time "In between employment". I think its hard times for everybody and trying hard and not losing hope is the mantra of the times.

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re-read again

by systemsgod In reply to How about this?

If you re-read both posts once again you will see that I make no attempt to blame anyone for the current state of IT. You are the only one throwing those words around, not me.

I also think if you take the time to examine my original post closely that you will see I made no attempt to start some kind of debate about the merits (or folly) of offshoring. If you also take the time to read the original post for this topic ("Whatever happened to entry-level as I remembered it?"), you will see that the author is interested in an entry level help desk position. My statement that most of this type of job has been offshored (or, has went away completely) is accurate. I dont think that you actually dispute this fact, but, for some reason you choose to use it as a way to grind your ax about the merits of offshoring, and Indian nationalism.

I also made comments about how tight the IT field is, and I went on to add some (hopefully) helpful statements about job hunting for the author. This is really what this topic was for, and not a place to start a ridiculous flame war about offshoring. That sort of thing is best left to another discussion, and another time. If you feel like having this discussion in an appropriate forum, go for it. Otherwise, this discussion is over.

My apologies to BrainXpansion for responding to this tripe in his forum. If he is reading this, best wishes to you with your job search. I hope the suggestions I offered are helpful, and that you find work soon. Don?t give up!

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by sachin22022 In reply to re-read again

Regarding me starting it all, well my dear friend I would like to say that it was really irritating for me to find a person teaching people, that the reason for they not getting jobs is offshoring.

This was the sole reason for me to respond to your comment in this topic, otherwise I have no time to waste in replying to your posts. I think in a topic like this it was not I who was off- topic, but they are the people like you who subtly try to maneuvour guys into thinking that offshoring is the culprit of their miseries. And regarding Indian Nationalism, thanks for finding in me Nationalism for my country, I am proud of it, At least how many guys these days are really Man enough for standing up to the defamation that people are resorting to against their countries. Regarding me starting a new forum well Thanks but no Thanks. I would rather be happy spending my time with my work rather than answering those baseless one sided remarks from "you-like" guys. I feel its the sheer frustration in you that you are not able to make the other person succumb to your views that is irritating to you. I pray to God to give you brains.

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re-read...again (and likely again and again and...)

by systemsgod In reply to

Honestly, I am not teaching anybody anything. All I did was state the obvious about the decline of entry level jobs (there aren?t as many and most have moved offshore). I never once suggested that this was why anyone couldn?t find a job. So, read my original post once more, and you might see what's really there this time.

This is not the appropriate forum for your prattle and flames about offshoring, which is why I will not comment on that subject any further. This is a forum for people who wish to offer suggestions to the author who is looking at an entry level IT position.

Lastly, I can see that you would argue with a fencepost. What I don?t understand is why you won?t start your own discussion on the merits of offshoring, and why you insist upon having it out here (where it is so clearly off topic). My guess is that you lack the fortitude, or, more likely the grapes to do so.

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