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which

By Jaqui ·
website technology do you preffer to use?
.asp?
asp-.net?
.php?
xml / xhtml?
html?
flash?
javascript?

why?

if doing a db driven application, which database engine do you use?
why is this your preffered engine?

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I"m not saying pass

by Jaqui In reply to it's the

new laws.
I'm saying enforce the existing laws.

with visa's 100% javascripted site, how much of the app is being processed server side?
how much on the clientside?

the laws around distributed computing say they are required to pay for the cpu usage, since it's all being processed clientside, with maybe 1% of it being server side.

"break the security and run apps on a companies system.."
I don't see the relevance of this. Could you elaborate?

they would be after you for illegally using thier systems.
same thing they are doing with 100% clientside scripted web apps.


Who determines what is excessive? Who determines what technology is effected? There are so many questions that have to be answered. Just because you don't "like" something, you can't "use" something, or you don't "want" something shouldn't mean that a technolgy should be "snuffed." This is an RIAA approach and I see it very stiffeling.

well, if you don't mind footing the bill for some company to make money off of you, then you will see making thm pay as being restrictive.
if you would rather see the laws applied, as intended, equally across the board, then you will not see demanding it as restrictive.


as far as I'm concerned, any company that requires my cpu time for site processing is going to pay for it or not get my business.
( static clientside scripting excluded )

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Intent

by tagmarkman In reply to it's the

"I'm saying enforce the existing laws."
In order to truely enforce laws, there have to be less of them and the the wording needs to be very clean and decisive. It needs to be understood and they need to be important enough to spend a great deal of money to enfore them. If the law does not make sense it takes far too much effort to enfore it.

"with visa's 100% javascripted site, how much of the app is being processed server side?
how much on the clientside?"
Client Server Ratio is irrelevant.

"the laws around distributed computing say they are required to pay for the cpu usage"
The "understanding" of distributed computing is different from your perspective due to "intent". Grid computing falls under this issue not javascript. You processing power, is not being used to resell to a third-party for profit. This is what is was intended to protect against. In other words, if have a task that I am going to make money from say computing prime number and I use other peoples system to generate that information, if I sell that data, I have to reemburse the owners of the distributed system. If I use your system to render a page for you then this issue does not apply even if I am a commercial entity.

"they would be after you for illegally using thier systems. same thing they are doing with 100% clientside scripted web apps."
You mean if I break into their system and user their processors... Different issue. They are not initiating the connection and rendering the data for themselves.

"well, if you don't mind footing the bill for some company to make money off of you"
How are they "making money" from you. You are engaged in an exchange.

"if you would rather see the laws applied, as intended, equally across the board, then you will not see demanding it as restrictive."
This is not how it was "intended" even if it was every commercial site would immediately be considered criminal. This is absurd.


as far as I'm concerned, any company that requires my cpu time for site processing is going to pay for it or not get my business.
( static clientside scripting excluded )

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by Jaqui In reply to it's the

Client Server Ratio is irrelevant.

no, it's the issue.
a companies site, run at your expense, so they can make money off you.
you are paying data transfer, paying in cpu cycles, and paying them cash. you are gaining what, as small bit of something, yet you paid 3 times for it.
they paid next to nothing because you paid 3 times for it.

he "understanding" of distributed computing is different from your perspective due to "intent". Grid computing falls under this issue not javascript. You processing power, is not being used to resell to a third-party for profit. This is what is was intended to protect against.

not here, the laws here state that a signed agreement must be in place prior.
so visa is breaking the law.

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Static v. Dynamic

by tagmarkman In reply to it's the

"a companies site, run at your expense, so they can make money off you."
That is like saying (extreme example) A company should pay for wear and tear on your shoes because the parking garage was not close enough and you are using up the lifespan of your shoes to shop in their store.

"you are paying data transfer, paying in cpu cycles, and paying them cash."
Client Server technology often reduces bandwidth. I would rather let a site tax my cpu for 3% vs 1% for a few seconds instead of hitting my bandwidth everytime I do anything. Data transfer cost me a heck of a lot more than a small CPU hit. On a transfer, I have to wait (time is expensive), I have to take time on my firewalls, and routers, and I have to pay for additional bandwidth if my company consumes too much due to bandwidth consumption. In other words, static pages, can cost me more than javascript enabled pages.

"the laws here state that a signed agreement must be in place prior. so visa is breaking the law."
Prior to what? Using the site? Then I see no difference between a static site breaking the law and a dynamic one. The is no mention of amount, therefore, I can assume ANY. And that mean Static as well.

Either way, I don't see how my argument has been countered. You are engauged in an exchange of information by requesting to visit their site via a URL. The site you are visiting is not "reselling" your CPU usages. Therefore they are not profiting off of your visit even if you do purchase something (however, if they were to process something on your box to generate income by reselling the process to a third party that was generated on your computer, it would be a different story).

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which

by gavaskar_msc In reply to which
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WIndows BOxes

by djameson In reply to which

Windows Boxes should never be let out into the real world go

Postgres SQL on A BSD box with a tomcat frontend, You can use perl php asp(if it suits you) jscript etc. I try to use the lowes common denomenator theory, whichever you will use the most use at least there is a really easy to use php port and best of all, it's all free (you provide the box)

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Server side

by Tony Hopkinson In reply to which

in preference, intranet stuff I will use clientside without moral reservations though I do have several technical ones.
To be quite honest I still have a softspot for ISAPI, I did my first serious web/db app with it and from a development point of view it's very neat and tidy, therefore maintainable and it's faster than CGI on windows boxes at least.

Course it's biggest downfall is it's not script.

Database, I don't really care as long as the DBMS in question will handle the requirements.

As a web user though I have very little time for using my bandwidth, memory, processing power ect to give me a 'better' browsing experience and distinguish them from their competitors. The thing I detest most about clientside scripting though is the bastardisation of what was meant to be a presentation technology into some sort of half -arsed application environment who's performance on both front's goes to poor as soon as you use it.

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by The Admiral In reply to which

Lotus Domino
JavaScript
Java
SQL

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