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Will replacing Win98 with Win2K help?

By kush ·
Hello everybody
I really need urgent help on this one. My client has 5 PC networked through a SoHo Basic 10 BaseT hub, with Cat5 cable (about 5m each length). They are using Win98 on all machines, including the 'server' (a PIII 700MHz 128Mb RAM 10 Gig HDD with more than 7 Gig free). They are mainly using Pastel Ver 6 and Excel 2000.

The problem is that when more than one client tries to access the shared Pastel or Excel files on the server the process slows down terribly. When all four areconnected, it becomes real ****.

I had suggested that we replace the Win98 on the 'server' with Win NT 4 or Win2K Server (especially Win2K, since it recognises Fat32). Will this help? I would like to hear your advice before I proceed. Please help.


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by LordInfidel In reply to back it up

Next liscensing.....

One Newbie was correct, use CAL's not server liscense. However, he failed to mention what that means. A cal (Client Access Liscens) allows users to gain access to a server. If you have 10 Machines on the network but only 5users, you only need 5 Cals. Now there are 2 versions of server when you buy it, one that comes with 5 cals, the other does not. If it does not come with cals you will need to buy them thru your vendor.

2Kpro does not take cals. It is not a server. But it will allow for 10 connections. But you can not make a domain using 2k Pro.

Installing 2K server makes not a domain.
You would need to install AD after the installation of server. This is different then NT4 where you specify it's domsin membership during the installation.

I hope this helps clear things up for you.

Before attemting any of this, especially if you have no idea of what you are doing. Get a test system and try it out first.

While one newbie is not an expert, I am. Plan and test everything before you deploy it. If you have to install AD 300 times before you get it right then do it.

If you definitely plan on going to 2K but are still unsure how to do it, it may serve to bring in outside help.

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...because they didn't care

by ghstinshll In reply to back it up

at first, they just wanted to get it done, simply and cheaply. (most likely)

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by rrgilmore_2001 In reply to back it up

for starters you can not go back to per server licence agreement, once you are per seat.
2.if you go by server you only need to pay for one server. by client you need to pay per seat and this is only feesable if you have mutiple servers.
3. advanced server would be a waist of money. you have no need or call for advanced server. you are not running more than 2 processiors are you? no win 98 support up 2 2 processiors.
4 last and not least running windows 98 for a server you have to pay no licence fees.

R Gilmore A+, MCP for windows 2000 professional, MCP for windows 2000 server. MICROSOFT 2408514

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Thought this was put to rest?

by LordInfidel In reply to NO HOLD UP!!!!

Since you took the time to post, I will take the time to reply. (wish you would of read the rest of the thread first though)

1. You are correct, when you choose a license scheme, if you go to seat you can't reverse it and go to cal's.

2. Seats are more expensive then cal's. I always reccomend cal's because that allows for adding additional servers to the netwk. Also most OEM server packs come with 5 cals.

3. Yes, advanced server is not needed but not for the reasons you specified.Nt4 wkstn/srvr/ent servr, 2k pro, srvr, adv srvr and datacenter can all run on 2 processors. I have never tried 98 on a dual procc, maybe someone else can shed some light on that one.

As I stated in my other post, adv srvr is used for clusteringpurposes. Not just processors. pro can support 2 proc, Srvr can take up to 4 processors, Adv server can do up to 8. Data center, well let's just say that most of us won't see it on a daily basis, and if you do, can I come work for you.

4. Win98 is not suited as a server product of any sort.

Certs- It's poor taste to list your certs and ID in a thread. But since you brought it up, I trump your MCP and A+ with the MCP+I MCSE (NT4 and 2K) RHCE CCNA (but who's counting)

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by WRAiTHY In reply to Will replacing Win98 with ...

Since you only have 5 PCs and you dont need all the advanced services that W2K has, I advise you upgrade to the Windows 2000 Standard Server. By installing it with all the defaults and creating a domain with the wizard, you will be good to go. Dont let AD scare you. It can be a bear in large enterprises, but, for you, it should be a breeze as you arent using it for anything but user authentication. Treat the W2K server as you would a Windows NT4 server and youw will be just fine. Most of the info that LordInfidel gave is correct, it does not have to be that hard.

Always back up your data prior to any installs and DO format the drives using NTFS and install the server clean. If you have no experience with the server architcture and admin, read up on it or ask for professional help.

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Try P2P with a Snap Server

by sklaszky In reply to Servers

Most of the advice given here is excellent for enterprises. But if your client is a small business on limited budget with little computing expertise and fewer than 10 workstations, why not install a Snap Server or similar Network Attached Storage (NAS) device? You can get 160GB with RAID for about $1500, or smaller ones for less. These are designed to do only one thing really well -- serve files. They work strictly as file storage devices (no console), but most NAS servers do have login authentication services without all the headaches and expense of admistrating a more complex Network OS. Then set your Win98 workstations up to use Peer-to-Peer with NetBEUI for File & Print Sharing and TCP/IP for those PC's with internet connections or some other compelling reason to use TCP/IP. This setup works really well and is VERY easy to administer on small networks.

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Good Grief

by bootstrap In reply to Will replacing Win98 with ...

Talk about bad advice - you are getting plenty.

1) you do NOT need win2K - it is nice, but with 5 hosts on the network, it is hardly worth the money. Go get a USED NT4 SErver with 5 CALS and save about $1500.

2) You do NOT need security - orif you do, you certainly didn't say anything about it. You might review your security issues - if any.

3) Win98 is slower than dirt as an OS and does NOT have an fault tolerance. Something you are in dire need - fault tolerance.

4) Access speed. Looking at the wrong animal(s). Your bottlenecks are in THIS order:

a: 10Bt ethernet. PLEASE replace NIC's with fast ethernet immediatly for a fraction of the cost of anything else - along with the hub/switch. Them, make sure you are getting fast Ethernet speed.

b: Disk Subsystem. PLEASE get a SCSI hardware RAID in place. With the modest storage requirements, I would suggest a 2-disk mirror arrangement for both cost, simplicity, and speed. It will run in ANY operating system.

Finally, after addressing your real bottlenecks, look at spending money on the Operating system - but any MS server OS will not address the speed/security issues you have.

I guess I also want to say .... before you go off on the wrong tangent again, DEFINE the PROBLEM - the first order of any troubleshooting/fix.

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What do you mean wrong advice?

by LordInfidel In reply to Good Grief

First, I made clear mention of server system hardware.

Plus, the old adage of the fewer number of users don't do a domain is BS. Everyone needs security. From the single user on the net to the corp enterprise. Lack of security just makes my job easier breaking into your system.

Also, a five user network is not going to be passing 10 megabits of data across the network.

Going with a 100mb switch in this scenario is overkill.
While nice and cool (I personally use nothing but switches) is still overkill for a five user netwk unless there is some need for it.

Yes, there is a need for fault tolerance... Hence which is why I said make sure they format with NTFS..... Data storage is a whole other concept.

Of course there is a possibilty that there their netwk cards are hosed, but if *everyone* is experiencing the same sluggishness, then it is probably not it.

Fine, I will give you with going with NT4 srvr over 2K. But on the other hand, NT4 will not be supported for one, 2) you can not buy cal's for it, 3)Licenses in the eys of M$ are non-transferrable which means they will have to find a shrinkwrapped NT4 box with the 5 cals sticker.

Buying a server that does not come with the license pack is technically not-legal.
(BTW 2k srvr with 5 cals is 850 [695 for OS, 28 per cal thru open license, check with your vendor], not sure where you got 1500 from)

While there has been lot's of advice on this thread, most of it has been correct, inlcuding some of yours. So don't go blasting unless something is blatanly wrong.

And if it is wrong, respond direclty to the poster instead of making a general comment.

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allow me to amend to "misguided"

by bootstrap In reply to What do you mean wrong ad ...

and I have not trouble finding plenty of NT4 used for $100 or so ... and with 5 CALS with it ............ all nice and legal, thank you.

So, I'll give you that wrong was the wrong adjective.

As for supported ....... I suspect you'll find plenty of folks who can run NT4 - especially if you install it as a MEMBER SERVER.

Notice I am staying away from the security issue - who knows what evil lurks .......

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Off the discussion..

by LordInfidel In reply to allow me to amend to "mis ...

Part of the problem with NT4 licenses is that you can't get them anymore, at least not thru open license.

You would literally have to find a sealed OEM box with the cals.

Licenses are not technically transferrable. Except for in the case if you buy a OEM machine such as a dell and it has the license sticker on that machine, then that license stays with that machine.

But let's say they went with NT4 and then they needed more cals. Well they can't get them thru open license and the only way to buy legal license packs is thru a approved MS reseller. And they no longer can sell NT4 cals.

The only real loophole to the transfer of cals is if you buy a company that already has licenses in open license. Because they are assets of the company you just bought.

But that same company can not sell off their cals to another person.

Also, on a point of clarity, you can't install NT4 as a member server unless a domain exists. It will need to be either a standalone server or a PDC.

As far as secuity, it's not something I stay away since my job is enforcing security and conducting penetration tests. So I am a stickler about it and bring it up whenever I am given the chance.

Designing networks is more then just installing an OS. It takes a lot of planning and know how. The systems that are always being taken over are created by people who don't know what they are doing.

Case in point, If anyone had followed best practices for installing IIS, Nimda would not have propagated the way it did. But there are thousands of "admins" out there installing products that they have no idea how to secure.

Security is everyones responsibilty who decides to put a machine on the net.

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