General discussion


Windows vs Linux

By rkuhn ·
Ok, these discussions are out of hand.

Anytime there is a discussion of Linux vs Windows, without laying down some background, it is almost impossible to have a meaningful discussion.

For example, there are substantial differences between rolling out Linux in a business environment vs rolling it out to a home user with minimal PC skills vs rolling it out to an experienced IT home user.

I'll start 3 threads to reflect this and let me hear the arguments.

For example, for a inexperienced home user, I don't want to hear about "cheap" printers when it comes to drivers. Let's face it, home users buy cheap printers...that's a fact of life.

Conversely, in a business environment, you do have time, money, etc for a roll out whereas in a home environment, you don't.

Let's agree to some variables. Corporate environments typically have time to train, get support, tweak, whatever.

Home users typically just want things to work, buy cheaper and more generic components, etc.

Let's hear your opinions now...

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I saw a crash on linux

by Jaqui In reply to Here's my reply

using a bleeding edge tool and running it at the wrong time I completely froze a linux box up,,, hard power off to get it running again.

not quite a windows crash but still a crash.

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Not to say you can't bring one down, but...

by Starderup In reply to I saw a crash on linux

I know you can put them in a loop, and certainly a program could be made to cause the system to stop responding, but what I am talking about is sitting there and watching the screen, and the system reboots. Or launching Outlook or Word, and the pointer freezes, and CTRL+ALT+DEL doesn't work, and in fact, the keyboard is no longer talking to the operating system. Actually, calling Windows an operating system is giving it way too much credit. It is a cheap, hacked up, f'ed up, messed up copy of UNIX, and I can't understand how it hangs onto its monopoly.
So, do I sound like a Bill Gates admirer? :^)

BTW, my first tech job was supporting Windows 3.1 for Corporate Software, back when Microsoft didn't want anybody to know they were outsourcing support. They did, and I took their calls.

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yup exactly

by Jaqui In reply to Not to say you can't brin ...

running harddrake on linux mandrake 6.1 completely froze the system no keyboard response, no option but to pull the plug on the power to force a reboot.

harddrake was designed to be run early in the boot sequence, not after the system is up and running.

but running it after the system had booted completely, from within kde actually, it killed the system.

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Close, but no cigarillo.

by apotheon In reply to Not to say you can't brin ...

Windows isn't a hacked up, effed up, messed up copy of unix: it's a hacked up, effed up, messed up copy of early MacOS GUI environments pasted over a hacked up, effed up, messed up copy of CPM to hide the blemishes.

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Yep, but Mac is a UNIX hack, too.

by Starderup In reply to Close, but no cigarillo.

Most of what you say is true. There was a middleman, though, and his name is Jobs.
Too bad PC Dos wasn't closer to CPM. It had a better way of handling the boot sector. The way it was implemented in PC Dos, there are two copies, and the bad one is mirrored in the backup.
CPM did a much better job of keeping a good backup.

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What about iSeries?

by jlemaire In reply to Windows vs Linux

I know iSeries wasn't included in the title of this discussion, but I just gotta say...

As a server, the iSeries has superior function, stability, security, version compatibility, and support than either Windows or Linux. It's the most reliable platform out there, except for a sysplex S/390 (now "zSeries"). It benefits from the fact that the hardware and the OS are developed together, just like Mac.

The system has a native database that's integrated with the OS; everything in the system is a database object. It's set up such that you can't get a virus. It has a native file system (Library / File / Member), a file system that is compatible with 8.3 naming, a file system that works just like Win2K and XP, and a file system that is compatible with *nix (capitalization matters). Microsoft got tired of stealing from Mac and others and turned its attention the iSeries. With Longhorn, Microsoft tried to implement about 2/3 of the iSeries underlying file structure. After quite a bit of trying, they gave up and just decided to release Vista. Part of the reason they failed: the database in iSeries is implemented in firmware, and you can't match that for speed or stability.

System logging is very useful and readable. Every problem can be determined if you know how; no voodoo or uninspecatble processes. If you don't know how, there's a nice person in Rochester, Minnesota who will show you how.

It has a very nice native text interface, if that's your bag. Any commands that worked in 1984 still work exactly the same way, although there is continually lots more function.

For the GUI fanatics, there's a nice GUI tool to manage every aspect of the system. It comes with a nice suite of programs for development of local applications or client-server.

For the *nix types, you can invoke a Qshell environment that makes you feel quite at home. You can also get a copy of your favorite 64-bit Linux and install it on virtual partition in your iSeries.

It comes with software you'd expect on a ready-to-go server; database, mail, web, and file serving, and lots more. And the databse makes SQuirreL server look like a toy. If you want groupware, you can get Lotus Notes that runs natively, and anything that will run on the Linux partition. It can even look to a PC just like a domain server, although I don't know why you'd want to do that. It will do everything except run Exchange and SQL server. To anyone who likes those products, you're late for your daily flogging.

The system has no limits on use, so no fussing about "seats". It costs a zillion bucks, right? Well, you can get entry-level (but high quality) hardware with all the features mentioned above (except for Notes) for $10K, including the first year of some very nice tech support. It scales up to the enterprise level, and all it costs is money, not technical fussing and headaches.

Into the 90's, Microsoft ran their business on about 200 iSeries computers (they were AS/400's back then). Because of the bad PR that could generate for Microsoft servers, they spent a billion or two and a couple years trying to convert those 200 boxes to about 10,000 Windows servers, and failed. I'm sure they've since succeeded, but I doubt the net result is better.

iSeries has solid representation in enterprises, and in such areas as banking, government, and casinos, but the SMB market hardly knows anything about them. I think that's mostly because IBM does a crappy job getting the word out.

To weigh in on what most everybody else is talking about, for web browsing I prefer Firefox on Windows for web browsing because the Windows interface is a little smoother. If it crashes I haven't lost anything and if it bluescreens, I just scratch and reload; all the data and programs I care about are on an iSeries. As a tool for getting tech work done, I prefer the rich toolset and stability of Linux.

OK, go ahead and flame me for bringing a third platform into the discussion.

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Giving Linux Another Try...Problems Again!

by rkuhn In reply to Windows vs Linux

Ok, now into my third or fourth try with Linux. Red Hat was terrible and Fedora 4 wouldn't recognize my wireless NIC or printer.

So, everyone says Ubantu is easy, simple and whatever. So Ubantu it is.

Upon install I get the following, please help or I will once again go back to Windows (I haven't had an install issue in Windows in a long, long time):

"Unable to install the selected kernel. An error ws returned while trying to install the kernel into the target system.

Kernel package: 'linux-386'.

Check /target/var/log/bootstrap.log for details."

Now, in another related post, someone said their grandma could instll Linux. Don't know about your grandma, but mine would be stumped by too for that matter.

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I have not tried Ubantu

by Deadly Ernest In reply to Giving Linux Another Try. ...

However when I trialled Mandrake 10 I noticed that I could choice to instal a specific kernel type with some software packages - the options were processor based as the processor commands differed between processors. The Intel options were 386 for 386/486 cpus; 586 for P1/P2 cpus; 686 for P3/P4 cpus; and a range for AMD. Check the kernel options for Linux-686 or Linux-586 and try them; I suspect P4 64 bit would different again to.

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Typical Responce

by rkuhn In reply to I have not tried Ubantu

Pretty typical response.

When it comes to pointing out all the choices Linux users have, Linux users rant and rave that choice is good.

When it comes to a problem, I have a difficult time getting help.

One more coaster made and one more failed Linux distro.

I will keep trying, but everytime I do, it just keeps making my point.

I don't doubt that Linux is a better performer, more stable, more secure.

Too bad I can't ever find a distro that works with all my equipment, installs nicely, and man it would be nice if I had programs with more descriptive adjectives for what they are/do.

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broken record

by apotheon In reply to Typical Responce

Cutting and pasting vitriol doesn't help much.

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