General discussion


Windows vs Linux

By rkuhn ·
Ok, these discussions are out of hand.

Anytime there is a discussion of Linux vs Windows, without laying down some background, it is almost impossible to have a meaningful discussion.

For example, there are substantial differences between rolling out Linux in a business environment vs rolling it out to a home user with minimal PC skills vs rolling it out to an experienced IT home user.

I'll start 3 threads to reflect this and let me hear the arguments.

For example, for a inexperienced home user, I don't want to hear about "cheap" printers when it comes to drivers. Let's face it, home users buy cheap printers...that's a fact of life.

Conversely, in a business environment, you do have time, money, etc for a roll out whereas in a home environment, you don't.

Let's agree to some variables. Corporate environments typically have time to train, get support, tweak, whatever.

Home users typically just want things to work, buy cheaper and more generic components, etc.

Let's hear your opinions now...

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Palmetto, that was the equation!!!

by stress junkie In reply to I hear a Wine...

The Old Ones used self referencing acronyms. That is why we had to kill them!!!

But Christine. It's really me.

No Roger. You are not the man that I loved.

Christine. I can prove it's me in this shell. Ask me to calculate any ... Um. ...

(I forget the rest of it.)

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Actually I tried the cheap way to emulate this

by X-MarCap In reply to I hear a Wine...

For loops of less than 400,000 Wine is 17% faster on Wine than Windows.

For Malloc of 200 MB it is 35% faster

For Disk write it is apparently slower by .3 seconds for a 2GB file. For reading the 2 GB file it is 43% faster. (FILESYSTEM difference)

That is just barebones difference with 8GB RAM
3.2 GZ P4 800 MZ FSB.

My hard drives are SCSI RAID 1 (Adaptec) with 200 GB mirrored drives.

I did all this on my local drives because I know the windows Powerpath is poor compared to Linux/Unix Powerpath.

As far as I can tell where there are lag is when other than console activity is happening. If you want true RT use QNX.

Linux isn't a RTOS. It is fast, but QNX is faster.


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Performance Comparison

by rkuhn In reply to I hear a Wine...

I'll take your word for the comparison since I wasn't there to see it, however, I'd like the same test done on "regular old equipment".

That is, your PC seems to be on steriods compared to the average, everyday PC. The "normal" PC is more like a Pentium IV 2.8 Ghz, 256-512MB RAM, no SCSI, no RAID, maybe a 500mhz front side bus, and run the test using software people are more likely to use such as Office, a few video games like Doom or such, etc.

Not sure if it will change the results or not, but it would be not only interesting to compare but also more "real".

Lastly, many Linux users lovely to claim its performance on older PC's like 400-600Mhz. Try that.

Grant it, I seriously doubt you have the equipment, time or software, but all of this would be a truer test.

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The commodore 64 emulator is slower in Wine

by X-MarCap In reply to I hear a Wine...

However that being said

Polack's home machine 2.4 GZ- 1 GB ram
deflowered to 512 MB RAM.

The performance of a Malloc of 240 MB in ram.

is 2% faster in Linux when I had 1 GB in it.

I have to reload windows in between the tests. When I malloc-ed the Ram XP $&#$ing blue screened I hate Microsoft C++...

So several days later, I am ready to try again...

The funny thing is I am playing with a client's servers to do my performance testing There was just a disk swap to reboot. This is taking time.

Do I count reload time in the malloc for MS XP

Even with 1 GB and 1 GB it took much time..
DB server XP isn't...

Apparently Internet traffic slows memory management...

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Edlin - Master of the unusable

by fredvoit In reply to Ease of use is the key

Don't like vi? Open your WindowsXP command prompt and type in:


Yes, this dos program is still there. And as user friendly as ever! I remember using it with DOS 3.31 and hating it then, yet it still lives! Had to use it a couple of months ago to fix a XP machine by remote login over the internet.

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good point

by apotheon In reply to Edlin - Master of the unu ...

I never had occasion to find out that WinXP comes with edlin, and for that I'm grateful. When I need to recover from something that catastrophic in a WinXP machine, I use a Knoppix LiveCD so I've got a full toolset that puts the fully-working WinXP available tools to shame, let alone the chintzy crap available at Windows command line interfaces.

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One more relic

by pkr In reply to Edlin - Master of the unu ...

Ok now we have

WMF which is a 1980's imageformat that executes code - relic

Edlin which might be from before 1980. Relic

Notepad - 1980's, changes files just by opening them and then closing the program. Relic

Any other obsolete and probably attack prone stuff in 'the most advanced OS the world has seen'?

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by pkr In reply to Ease of use is the key

OK, read this, 'cause I'm not going to waste any more time on you.
You clearly have absolutely no knowledge about what you are talking about. I wonder if you even know something about Windows, even if you have 25 experience in IT. Don't know how that can happen, I have 35 years in IT, and I have firsthand experience Windows from 1987 and up, all IBM from s/34 to z-Series, Linux, Unix OS/2 and a few I don't care to mention.

Windows is not on 90% of desktops because it is good. Windows is on 90% of desktops because Microsoft used harsh tactics and draconian measures on PC suppliers, going to the point of refusing to deliver Windows at all, if they sold the HW without Windows, with another OS alongside Windows, or even distributing th PC with no OS at all. I have paid Microsoft for the OS I stripped off the machine the moment it was switched on, with a bootable Linux install CD mounted. This practise is not paying for a product, it is tax - or in another trade named 'protection'.

Notepad and Vi and a host of other text editors - f.instance Windows Registry Editor, are utilities for people needing quick text entry - like on a Notepad.

Windows has a string of proprietary applications written by Microsoft, and some from companies they haven't bought and closed down yet.

Linux has an endless string af applications from a multitude of suppliers. Some you pay for, some are free. Some are very good, some are not - exactly as it is in any other market where competition exists.

Most people install Windows from a preloaded PC with all relevant drivers and settings already loaded. It takes about an hour if it recognises your HW, days if it doesn't.

Linux is installed from a CD or the net, and no preinstalled exists - see above chapter. Nevertheless Linux install is _easier_ and takes less time, as the normal install time of about an hour - same as Windows, includes several browsers, several MM programs, a complete Office Suite, an email client/calendering program that sends Outlook into the canvas for counting out immediately, firewall, and tons of other stuff. Things you have to add after installing Windows. And after install you have to go to MS update and download about 64MB of fixes. An unfixed XP survivies unharmed on the net about 5 minutes, much shorter time than it takes to download the fixes. I can prove it, it happened to my daughters PC.

If you had tried Linux - and not stopped saying that it doesn't work the moment you discovered there was no C: drive, you would have realised that everything you say is wrong.

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Not too hard for my 81 year old mother

by X-MarCap In reply to Ease of use is the key

My mother uses firefox and IRC chat and she also
may be the exception to the rule...

I have been doing UNIX since 1977. She cut her teeth on a SCO Xenix on a 386/25...

It isn't completely difficult if you set up menu's for the ignorant. (My six year old plays hangman, Urogue, etc on the previously mentioned Xenix box. Everex Step/25.. )

It takes people being willing to read...


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Open Office

by kudincendol In reply to Ease of use is the key

Never heard of this software ? Try downloaded it. They have "Save as.... M$ Win/97"

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