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Windows Vs. Novell - Who is better? Why?

By Bratt ·
Alright it's getting to be about that time where we are re-evaluating our server software and getting ready to upgrade or change what we are using. Currently we have Novell 4.11 and it's been rock solid, but (don't get mad Oz) I need to look at what is right for the company as far as integrating other software and ERP applications, the users, and TCO figures. Opinions anyone? Why Windows or why not, why Novell or why not? No this is not for a college paper this is for my research I was asked to do for work. I need to hear from others with hands on experience what their opinions are and why they think what they do.

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Being that you asked

by dafe2 In reply to Novell is still much more ...

"My question to Windows server advocates out there, when was the last time you could say that about a Windows Server and their blue screens of death?"

NEVER in a production environment. :-)

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Windows is just as reliable

by Kardinal In reply to Novell is still much more ...

We have about 15 Windows servers in our environment, and in the six years I have worked here, I have never had a Windows server abend (BSOD or otherwise) in a production environment.

Ever.

BSODs are due to bad drivers. Always. Use certified, tested, known-good drivers, and you'll have no issues.

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"Production environment"

by Oz_Media In reply to Windows is just as reliab ...

I like that term, I suppose M$ coined it as you certainly wouldn't want to do anything IN a production environment.

NOvell doesn't understand the words production environment. Although I have a server at home for playing learning and testing new software, I have always been able to apply all Novell patches,fixes and updates directly on production servers with a quick reboot.

I have updated an email server to a newer version during lunchtime and had it update across multiple sites and be up and running within the lunchbreak.

Production environment? I guess that means the company invests in hardware and tech times for testing purposes and then pays to have the techs recreate it on th eproduction server AFTER testing?

So technically that entails double the install time (doing it twice) and HOW much time testing?
1 day? 2 Days? Who so they pay to do the teasting and monitor/report on it before they have to pay techs to implement it in the production environment?

I wonder how they do it with 'just a guy form Spain' who has 40,000 users on his Novell servers?

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Production Environment

by dafe2 In reply to "Production environment"

Production Server = 'Live' Server = Hands Off System. No service or maintenance is permited on a live server unless scheduled through Change Management.

Testing? Absolutely.....if the Royal Bank or the CIBC would have tested their program change last year do you think they would have made the papers?

The 'just a guy from Spain' said he worked for a place with a 40k node network. (Bit right on to that didn't you?) They do it the same way anybody else does that work on large networks...they test...then they move to production.

If your suggesting the administratorS (Note the S) of any of the servers on that network are 'touched' live....then...I don't know what to think... :-)

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No that's not what I said nor implied at all

by Oz_Media In reply to Production Environment

NO I didn't suggest a 40,000 node network would test live

I don't know of many under about 250 nodes that actually do run a Novell test environment though.

Most Novell admins will test new, questionable third party products but Novell changes are seen as stable enought to implement live in small and medium networks, live, by many admins I've worked with, including a NW 5.1 to 6.5 w/Suse upgrade.

Call it what you will, it worked it was stable and it was done without issue, or additional company expense. In this case, 12 stores a HO and a VPN, the owner would have had a bird if we wanted to test first. "Have it up by Monday morning" was his idea. Him not havign ANY interest in netwroks at all but he knew his operations manager wanted changes so he just went along, grudgingly.

Starting on a Friday afternoon (4:30), it was up and being tweaked and customized Saturday Morning, after a 10PM finish and a few beers in Victoria Harbour the night before.

Users were logging in without issue or complaint on Monday morning, having been 'TOLD' the network would be different. A few little desktop calls, for downloading stuff like Adobe, FLASH, a few browser questions and all was smooth again.

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Cool....

by dafe2 In reply to No that's not what I said ...

I see where your coming from....makes sense.

Actually, the same is probably true for MS shops of - 250 as well...
So, if I were them, all patching or upgrades could or would be done in a similar fashion.

Friday night with low or no staff arround & then Saturday & Sunday to deal with issues or test.
Possible crappy weekend but no issues on Monday morning.

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Novell (marketing = NOT) - More MS more support

by rswanson In reply to Windows Vs. Novell - Who ...

I am a old CNE from back in the day of 3.x servers. I love Novell and hope that the get their stuff in one corner and learn how to sell their product before the go the way of the Dodo bird! I love Novell so much I even named my company after them...so my heart goes out to all you CNE's out there. I even attended the recent wave of Novell/SUSE boot camp classes of which I had to travel 6 hours to Atlanta to attend.

All the emotion behind me or pushed to the side...the bottom line is this. Novell still does not market their products worth a tinkers @&#*&^% so we have no choice but to start working with the other OS's. I look at it rather practically....if everyone drove Fords and I like to eat (which I do!) then I am damn sure going to learn how to fix Fords.

This issue is this MS has went out of their way to develop relationships with their partners and companies that are working on new products. Novell has not...every time a new product comes out it will usually work on a MS or Exchange product....if you want it to work on Novell don't hold your breath or you will pass out or you can just wait 6 months to a year and it might work by then?

Sorry Novell I really love the product and love the stability but something has got to give and the product that can deliver gets installed and what gets installed gets supported.

The Big Red wave is over but who knows maybe IBM can teach Novell how to market....I have not given up hope I just don't see the sales happening in Novell land.

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Don't need a marketing team.....with Oz is arround

by dafe2 In reply to Novell (marketing = NOT) ...

LOL.......... Really sorry........I couldn't help it.......LOL..............LOL


***All due respect to Oz***

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I was going to say that!!

by Oz_Media In reply to Don't need a marketing te ...

Honestly that's my point.

For the previous post,

MS has trained more techs, MS has spent more advertising dollars.
thus
MS has more reps, MS pushes themselves into your living room.
MS makes Windows for desktops and has done for many years as PC's became common in homes, common in homes means common at work. People wanted familiarality in the workplace, when it wasn't available from others.


Novell, always has had a better NOS, most likely always will. They were marketed by word of mouth for the most part, everyone wanted it as it was one of the few real offerings available.

SO while MS is marketed better, as an admin (not a sales rep as in this case) it is your duty to know where stability and security reside. Yet so many are simply MS focused because they have studied it intricately that they feel it offers much more than Novell does. Often due to comparissons made in MCSE training courses many yaers ago too.

So the mindset moves from true knowledge to simply FUD, "I was given reasons why I chose the better fireld 8 years ago, I am sticking to it because MS has only become better now."

Whereas that same person still taking an interest in Novell or working in a hybrid environment would probably say otherwise after working with both.

I can tell you I have smiled mroe than once when another MCNE and I go to the pub at 4:30 and say goodbye to the few MCSE's techs who are still tryig to resolve their issues (not because they are dumb but there were just more issues and concerns with the MS servers).


So in a nutshell, IT staff and users sell technology, and not by an educated opinion in many cases.

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Naaahhh..................see you at the Pub

by dafe2 In reply to I was going to say that!!

"Yet so many are simply MS focused because they have studied it intricately that they feel it offers much more than Novell does"

You said it right there...........

Your EXACTLY right about why MS has gained market share.

* Of course we'll disagree on the better NOS bit ;-)

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