General discussion


Windows Vs. Novell - Who is better? Why?

By Bratt ·
Alright it's getting to be about that time where we are re-evaluating our server software and getting ready to upgrade or change what we are using. Currently we have Novell 4.11 and it's been rock solid, but (don't get mad Oz) I need to look at what is right for the company as far as integrating other software and ERP applications, the users, and TCO figures. Opinions anyone? Why Windows or why not, why Novell or why not? No this is not for a college paper this is for my research I was asked to do for work. I need to hear from others with hands on experience what their opinions are and why they think what they do.

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Thanks for the vote of confidence.

by Oz_Media In reply to you sure can....

I never pigeonhole myself into one career focus, there's always time and room for more.

NO I can't make your kid's alternative rock band famous and make him millions. Nor have I EVER implied nor stated as much, that was your conclusion.

I CAN, WILL and DO take experienced and talented heavy metal acts out of the pathetic North American market and get then started on a solid WORKING career path in Europe though.

They have to be good, actually talented musicians and have drive, which VERY few bands out here have anymore. I have contacts from my past work in the industry, I send a demo and it actually gets listened to. I recommend a band who is playing in a local pub and someone actually visits to check them out.

Try and get a break like that out here, good luck.

Bands in Europe don't usually seek to become millionaires, they are more concerned about REAL fans and retaining musical integrity by creating music that shows who they are, not what the label wants to sell.

That's why so many record companie here are struggling now and looking for new ways to conduct business without total control and ownership of personal license.

Look at ACDC in Australia as an example of integrity. When you buy a CD you know exactly what you are getting. 45 minute FULL CD with 13-15 tracks of good rock'n'roll. NOt one track ou like and 13 experimental tracks the label has produced to market test new trends.

A famous interview with Angus Young had an reporter asking "Are you aware that you have made 10 albums that ALL sound the same?"

Angus Young replied "NO....we have made ELEVEN albums that all sound the same" THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE EXPECT!! If one band had all the sound, why have more than one artist on the market?

As it is today out here, every artist is TOLD to mimick the flavour of the week, when the flavour stops selling they ALL change to the next sound the label wants.

Sorry, but that just isn't why people (should) create music and it most definitely does not display individual artistry.

Your music industry was built on the grass roots of blues where people like Howlin Wolf and BB King etc. al were verytalented and had a unique sound. What happened? Ask the record company that pumps it out.

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Long live Rock

by jdclyde In reply to Thanks for the vote of co ...

It is so nice to hear someone with an opinion on music that matches my own.

I will like a band, the way they write, the way they play TOGETHER and the sound that results.

Bands start to get a little fame and then they change the sound to get on the radio and start to enjoy their commercial sucsess. (metalica anyone)

Or as Gene Simons was quoted as saying "We became corporate whores". This explaines Dynasty.

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posted in wrong spot

by Oz_Media In reply to Long live Rock
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by Oz_Media In reply to Thanks Oz. .

There's nothing wrong with MS really, it's a good product used by many worldwide.

It is not the end-all solution though, and in most cases would offer far better ROI, TCO and security if coupled with a Novell sever for directory, user and server management. Novell has lower hardware requirements and doesn't mean you need to run out and buy new hardware. Keep your existing server and upgrade it, then you may want to add a high end server and run MS to get your preferred ERP solution in place, IF you don't like the open source offerings.

It's still more cost effective in most cases, plus YOUR workload and the company's maintenance costs are greatly reduced.

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Windows is MORE than just popular

by dafe2 In reply to Both have benefits, but S ...

Windows is more than just popular.

After 250 nodes Novell's network performance frankly sucks, wheras Windows just barely breaks a sweat, and that's befor clustering the servers.

Most ERP solutions involve more than 500 seats........that's why I asked what ERP solution this person was after.

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not to mention

by secure_lockdown In reply to Windows is MORE than just ...

You can also pay your windows Sys admins/DBA admins minimul wage because they are a dime a dozen.

Have you a clue what a salary for a SAP expert is?

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I hire them, so I guess I'd have a small clue

by dafe2 In reply to not to mention

$500.00 /day + expenses +++

As far as Windows get what you pay 80k year to start is good for me.

They may be a dime a dozen, but I don't want one with snot on his nose or one that's wet behind the ears either. ;-)

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by Oz_Media In reply to I hire them, so I guess I ...

You seem to enjoy hanging on to outdated dogma.

I have seen some Novell installs with severalk thousand nodes without an issue.

Lets have a look shall we?

Novell 6.5 (probably a good 5 years after what you are referring to)

>iFolder supports synchronizing multiple clients.
-MS, Offline folders supports ONE.

>iFolder only updates changed info as needed, this it is more efficient and bandwidth frendly requiring less processing power
-MS Offline folders requires alot of bandwidth due to the entire folder being uploaded on synch.

>The Nterprise Branch Office automatically provides data and directory synchronization services to corporate hubs, as well as local network, authentication, Web and printing services.
-Microsoft recommended configuration requires five servers for a branch office solution.

>iSCSI SANs?NetWare 6.5 provides ability to cluster iSCSI SANs for geo-site failover. Supports up to 32 servers in a cluster.
-MS doesn't support the cluster

You mentioned MS does it without clustering, clever. MS doesn't allow clustering unless in Enterprise or Data center versions because it relies on the individual Windows registry, generally resulting in security vulnerabilities.

>The mature file storage and handling capabilities of NetWare (NSS) provide capacity as well as consistency. The result is less down time, fewer failures, and greater scalability than available with Win2003.

>i-Manager allows management through ONE interface
-MS requires sveeral tools for even the simplest management

>Netware offers a better server consolidation utility, MS merely offers a migration/upgrade tool.

>e-Directory will dance circles around AD with ease

>Novell is tuned to a specific purpose with optimal server and parameter settings.
-Win2003 Roles are only selected components with no customized tuning or optimization. Installing Roles on top of each other is possible,Although you can add theseontop of each other, there is a far reater risk of corruption.

The latest Netware 6.5 (Linux)

>NetWare provides everything needed to create new enterprise-class open source applications or to run existing open source applications out-of-the-box. Microsoft requires additional products and licences to achieve the same.

> Novell's DirXML provides integration services for various different directories including Active Directory and NT domains.
-MS does not offer this integration. (this is why MS users can't see the two working together).

>LDAP?eDirectory integrates with LDAP and can function as standalone LDAP server.
-Minimal LDAP v3 compliance with limited support. Active Directory cannot be used as a standalone LDAP directory

Web services

>J2EE?NetWare 6.5 fully supports J2EE standard 1.3 with ability to run open source code from large library of existing applications.
-MS is hidden source, therefore it will only allow software converted to run on Windows.

>exteNd Application Server?NetWare 6.5 includes exteNd Application Server, a fully compliant and comprehensive, J2EE certified platform for building and deploying enterprise-class Web applications
-MS, does not include an application server in the box

>exteNd Workbench
-Win2003 does not include application development tools or IDE. This entails MORE software, added costs and more management, hardware investments.


>Virtual teams, web based group collaboration
-MS nothing evenremotely comparable.

>eGuide - Directory information to users as needed
-MS nothing....NADA

>E-mail - Novell's Virtual Office includes e-mail gateways that provide Web access to GW, Lotus Notes, Exchange and Novell NetMail. Users are able to access e-mail from anywhere using a standard browser.
-Windows doesn't even come close tocomparing to this functionality


Similarly priced to Windows 2003 Standard Edition, NetWare 6.5 provides all of the functionality of Microsoft's Enterprise and Datacenter versions plus 32 node clusters with 32-way SMP.

Novell licencing and cost is simplified and capability is greater with management for complete range of services integrated through eDirectory.

>Licensing?NetWare 6.5 provides flexible licensing based on the needs of an organization. Licenses can be per user, per server or per organization.
-The MS licensing subscription model is expensive and requires ongoing payment for continued right to use software (license expires!!).

>NetWare on average requires less hardware power to provide the same level of capability.
-Less efficient design requires more RAM and processing power to provide the comparable level of services in NetWare.

>Support costs with NetWare are lower. Users can do more for themselves through the Web and eDirectory simplifies user provisioning and administration.

>NetWare 6.5 Server Consolidation Utility and eDirectory flexibility make it easier to work between versions, migrate from other sources, reorganize and rearchitect.
-MS provides an upgrade tool that requires replacing earlier version to bring them up to date.

Win2003 is Windows NT/2000 with modifications and follows the historical Microsoft tradition of superficially updating features and interfaces while leaving the same fundamental desktop operating system architecture in place.

The architecture in NetWare provides better security and higher performance which leads to long-term reliability and high scalability.

In short, Novell is an out of the box scalable solution at a lower TCO that MSServer 2003.
Management tasks are simplified, consolidated and again reduce licensing and hardware costs.

MS 2003 is just the same old BS Microsoft with a new Web Server.

Now your concern is for multiple nodes, I can appreciate this. Novel offers server clustering to achieve the same results. Even the added hardware costs are easily explained with the reduction in initial software and licencing costs, renewal costs, and additional management required with MS servers. MS triesto avoid clustering due to the inability for central management that e-Directory and i-folder achieve with ease.

And the bottom line for ANY company's benfit, it is FAR more stable and secure.


First of all your complaints began with user issues. That now being proven as a non issue, you resort to high numbers of network nodes.

Now the thing at question here is the company it is being applied to.

NOTE THE COMMENTS: Currently we have Novell 4.11 and it's been rock solid

So how does your last comment have ANY relevance at all?
After 250 nodes Novell's network performance frankly sucks, wheras Windows just barely breaks a sweat, and that's befor clustering the servers.

You do realize we are not discussing YOUR organization but one that operates fine with a Netware 4.11 server right?
Obviously you skipped that MOST IMPORTANT issue in your haste to support your predetermined conclusion.

The original posters comment actually makes yours completely inapplicable and irrelevant. Try addressing the customer issue, not just addressing your own beliefs, LOL! Avoid consulting at all costs!

now as I said before, if the guy is looking for an ERP solution for a smaller organization, Npvell open source does offer basic solutions, must most need customization.

Therefore, if the chosen solution is not Novell based, run it on a stand alone MS server and use Novell for all of the rest. At least Novell will work WITH MS. Oh and it can be centrally managed and maintained.

Sure looks like MS is the expensive, high maintenance, less secure option IN THIS SCENARIO.

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Actually I was answering Sec's comment

by dafe2 In reply to Obviously

But seing as you mention a few thing like..........nah....

I don't know where you got your MS info, but if he works for you you better fire him.
The post is just so full of holes, BS & untruths it's not even worth addressing....sorry.

I also asked "Bratt" a couple of questions & offered GENERAL comments. He had not offered feedback until he told me they where considering an MS solution.

I've worked with Novell long ennough to understand it's limitations as well as it's home (IMO)

Now, forgetting your predictable MS slams and don't forget to fire the guy that gave you the MS BS ;-) :

I do agree that if there's an ERP solution out ther that runs under NOVELL fill your boots NOVELL is a proven rock solid NOS.

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You're good!

by Oz_Media In reply to Actually I was answering ...

You actually read and verified the truth behind all that in what...5 minutes? Sure you did, that's why you didn't offer any counter 'MS BS/proof'.

These are facts taken from MANY sources, yes including some obviously biased untruths or LIES from Novell, we all know that's how they achieved success, not by performance but by BS marketing. Others are from mixed test environments found on the net, others from consultants etc. Th enumber of soures was why I didn't offer credits nor copied and pasted directly from them.

SO what you are implying is that in a mere 5 minutes you can make such a blanket comment?

What was that thread again? TECH'S KNOW IT ALL?

Let me ask you how many Novell based MIXED environments you have configured and currently manage then. I know you have done a few, but how does THAT experience apply to THIS client?

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