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Women, minorities & tech: What the hell do they think?

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There seems to be a campaign to lure more women, and minorities into study of math, science, and engineering under way.

http://www.toptechnews.com/story.xhtml?story_id=39197
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/centralphoenix/articles/1209ext-engineers1209Z4.html

Even Clinton stepped in

http://www.kwwl.com/Global/story.asp?S=4226894&nav=2Ifu

The reason for lack of interest for such study seems to be more or less obvious.

Mathematical, logical, and physical laws are same everywhere, in developed, and undeveloped countries alike. There are smart, innovative people, capable of developing new technologies everywhere. Everyone that finishes study of science & technology must therefore compete against the whole world, from USA & EU, to India, China, and Somalia in who’s gonna work cheaper. That’s certainly not the way to pay one’s bills nor to pay off one’s loans. It’s only logical, that smart people in developed countries don’t want to study math, science, and engineering. It’s the question of money and job security, not race or gender.

So, what the hell do the authors of this “get women & minorities into tech” campaign thinking? Do they think, that the said groups are less capable to estimate what’s good for them? Do they think, that women or blacks are less aware of their own interests? That they will be easier to lure into seemingly problematic career?

I don’t know if it’s just me, but the whole thing smells like covert racism. Basically, it says: “Tech is a nigger job, so let’s get more ******s to do it”, where ****** is a politically incorrect term for this folks

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/reconstruction/section3/section3_01b.html

Topic

Nutters …

In reply to Women, minorities & tech: What the hell do they think?

Gits. Why does everyone seem to think that women cant get into tech ?? …. Loads of my girl friends are into tech … and not because we studied at college together …

I dont care what anyone says … girls make better techs … In addition to being a good support, we are more polite, humble and all that jazz …

]:)

]:)

It’s not that gals CAN’T get into tech

In reply to Nutters …

They dont WANT to get into tech, because they are smarter than guys. :->

Funny ..

In reply to It’s not that gals CAN’T get into tech

I would have thought it the other way round…

Tech is good … needs loads of brain cells (more than I have to spare) and is interesting … I am a girl … but am I saying something against the women community ??

]:)

Why not a tech job???

In reply to Funny ..

I’ve worked with many female techs and IT people, and find them very skilled and the ladies
make very good software types but have to step
asside for the tech jobs because they can’t do the physical parts, ie- crawling under desks
to disconnect cables, lugging 21 inch monitors
off desks and just looking at a big plotter gives them back aches. I don’t hold it against them anymore than I look down on a pro football
player they can and I won’t. Why, I’m a guy, but not all of us can do that physical of a job.
So what’s the problem. We all have a place in the scheme of things, find it and excell and
don’t get pushed into a job you don’t like or can’t do. I worked with a lady who loved the work but couldn’t do the physical part, but was
always able to find a big guy to handle that
with a smile. So apply yourself and use all the natural skills you are given and to hell with
those who would have you picking up garbage
instead of washing and dyeing your hair.

Female Techs Get Dirty, Too — Don’t Get It Twisted

In reply to Why not a tech job???

Who says female techs can’t crawl under a desk? Who says
they can’t do the physical parts a male tech would do? I
think that’s just wrong — coming from a female who has
been on my hands and knees crawling in and out of tight
spaces, under desks, and carrying computer towers from
one place to another, taking them apart, replacing parts,
and putting them together again, and configuring them so
they run nice and smoothly. I think it’s the physical parts
of being a technician that adds to the overall experience of
the know-how, and not leaving all the fun to our male-tech
counterparts.

Give us more credit where credit is due rather than keeping
us in just one area of the computer industry because we’re
not just good at software, duh. There?s enough room for
male and female techs. Just because we’re girls, doesn’t
mean we can’t get down to the nitty-gritty of the job as a
technician, and get our hands dirty, and not care if we
break a nail, or mess up our hair, or dirty the knees of our
jeans — hello…we come prepared — I know I do. No
offense, but I think it’s the “girly-girls” I think would have a
hard time dealing with breaking a nail, getting a snag in
their favorite top, smearing their makeup, and just the
whole idea of heavy labor and the elbow grease of a
technician — those are the ones you would not find laying
cable for a network setup, crawling under desks to install
adapters, hubs or routers, connecting printers or other
devices that require a little more physical effort. Let’s get
real, as well as getting it right. Females who take the trade
seriously can be damn good technicians!

…But You Do Have a Point

In reply to Why not a tech job???

I admit, not all women are meant to be a technician, nor are
they one to be willing to do a lot of heavy lifting. No they
wouldn’t carry a 20 inch monitor — I would and have.
There are easy ways to getting it to where it needs to go,
but if you don’t have that available to you, you get there the
best way you can. I’ve never been considered a girly-girl
because I like mechanical work like working on cars, fixing
things, putting bicycles together, checking oils and other
fluids of a car — some even told me I should take up auto
shop — but never did because my interest always leaned
towards computers. I agree that we should never be
pushed into a job we would not be able to do and never
admitting to the fact that it’s impossible. Think of the
problems it could cause in the long run. And even
sometimes applying yourself can be just as overlooked
because an employer will only want you to do the job you
were hired to do and nothing more. I dove into the IT field
because it’s what I enjoyed. There were no surveys or polls,
or recruiters who just one day decided this is where I
needed to be. I have a problem with a lot of women who
will rather settle for less than what their getting just to
keep from finding out what they’re really made of. Not me!
No sir, not me. I have a daughter. And as a full-time
working mother, I sacrifice what little time I have to being a
technician. I put myself out there so one day I can be a
full-time independent technician, doing what I enjoy the
most. No, I’m happy with my job at the present, but it pays
the bills, keeps a roof over my head, and keeps food on the
table, but I am not settling. I know what my capabilities are
and I think all women who have very little to work with
should come to recognize their full capabilities and
potentials, and work to better their lives. If their natural
skills are all they have to work with, then take it from there.

…But You Do Have a Point (REVISED)

In reply to Why not a tech job???

I admit, not all women are meant to be a technician, nor are
they one to be willing to do a lot of heavy lifting. No they
wouldn’t carry a 20 inch monitor — I would and have.
There are easy ways to getting it to where it needs to go,
but if you don’t have that available to you, you get there the
best way you can. I’ve never been considered a girly-girl
because I like mechanical work like working on cars, fixing
things, putting bicycles together, checking oils and other
fluids of a car — some even told me I should take up auto
shop — but never did because my interest always leaned
towards computers. I agree that we should never be
pushed into a job we would not be able to do and never
admitting to the fact that it’s impossible. Think of the
problems it could cause in the long run. And even
sometimes applying yourself can be just as overlooked
because an employer will only want you to do the job you
were hired to do and nothing more. I dove into the IT field
because it’s what I enjoyed. There were no surveys or polls,
or recruiters who just one day decided this is where I
needed to be. I have a problem with a lot of women who
will rather settle for less than what their getting just to
keep from finding out what they’re really made of. Not me!
No sir, not me. I have a daughter. And as a full-time
working mother, I sacrifice what little time I have to being a
technician. I put myself out there so one day I can be a
full-time independent technician, doing what I enjoy the
most. No, I’m not happy with my job at the present, and I
do feel my boyfriend could do more than what he’s doing to
help out financially, but for the time being, my job pays the
bills, keeps a roof over my head, and keeps food on the
table, clothes on my daughter’s back, and shoes on her
feet, but I am not settling because I’m working towards
achieving my goals every single day. I know what my
capabilities are and I think all women who have very little to
work with should come to recognize their full capabilities
and potentials, and work to better their lives. If their
natural skills are all they have to work with, then take it
from there.

Might be right….

In reply to It’s not that gals CAN’T get into tech

This reminds me of a study that was done about why there are so few women as CEOs of major corporations. Instead of validating the “glass ceiling” idea, it showed that most women who reached that point weren’t stopped, they quit. They realized that they did not want to give up their families and lives, and did not want the stress involved in that level of position.

Maybe women are smarter. With the amount of griping (from men!) that is normal on TechRepublic about crappy bosses, crappy hours, lack of ethics, etc etc, why would a woman want to get into IT at all?!?

This is another attempt to force a personal ideology on the population under the guise of “helping” you.

hey, best of all

In reply to Nutters …

ya can stuff a girl tech into areas most male techs won’t fit, so you don’t have to clean up that cabling nightmare in the server room so soon. 😉
[ note, i’m half the size of my wife, so I know it’s not all female techs. 😉 ]

That is a good one ….

In reply to hey, best of all

I do the crawling under tables and lugging about the not so heavy stuff thing …

But Gentlemen being gentlemen … they do it, when they are around 😀

]:)

Gentlemen?

In reply to That is a good one ….

Uh, I guess lawyers are above heavy lifting. They see a 95lb 5’2″ girl carrying a computer, a laptop, some CD’s and a binder of notes into the office… only about 1/2 would bother to even help open the door. Lol.

Lawyers? Nice people?

In reply to Gentlemen?

My wife worked for a huge law firm, and she had a nice but spineless boss who sacrificed her job to keep himself on the partnership track. The rest of them well….my wife was pregnant at one point in time, and had morning sickness throughout her pregnancy, and 24×7. One of the lawyers insisted on smoking (camels unfiltered) in the office right beside her, even though smoking in the workplace was banned. HR was unsympathetic – he was a famous lawyer and she was just a admin. She pointed out the illegality and they laughed at her.

James

Why does that figure?

In reply to Lawyers? Nice people?

I saw two things immediately in that situation:

1. There was a “star” player and
2. They were lawyers, and therefore above the laws of us silly common people.

Your wife should have reported them to OSHA just because! And as far as her being an admin…want to bring a company to its knees? Have all the administrative people quit! Its fun to watch the powers the be lose their mind when they cannot find something. 🙂

Why does that figure?

In reply to Lawyers? Nice people?

I saw two things immediately in that situation:

1. There was a “star” player and
2. They were lawyers, and therefore above the laws of us silly common people.

Your wife should have reported them to OSHA just because! And as far as her being an admin…want to bring a company to its knees? Have all the administrative people quit! Its fun to watch the powers the be lose their mind when they cannot find something. 🙂

Lawyers?? PEOPLE??

In reply to Lawyers? Nice people?

:^O

]:)

Well…!

In reply to Lawyers?? PEOPLE??

There are some who ARE really nice! And they DO hold doors for ppl carrying large equip…

Course 85% of those that I know would are female themselves….

It’s strange to discuss who is more smarter!!

In reply to hey, best of all

Hello everybody,

As per my opinion we don’t much girls in tech jobs because…
Firstly most of the time in tech-jobs you have to adjust your time and run as per the client; sometimes wait for long office hours and most of peoples find ocward to tell any girl to wait in night hours/ long shift hours especially if she is married. They have many reasons to excuse from work.
I have noticed that most of the girls tend to do routine type job that don’t have too much fluctuations and physical work as in Tech jobs.
Girls hate to travel much that mostly one of reasons in tech job avoidance 😉
And offcourse its go and getter approach and guts to face challenges everyday that attract boys in tech jobs

Fhew..

With Love,
Gautam

Uh..

In reply to It’s strange to discuss who is more smarter!!

Well, your entire argument is based on what seems to be IT consulting. Since that is maybe 1/10th of the field, I’m going to have to disagree.

And as far as who is smarter… lets see, by your argument, we girls, by not getting into IT don’t have to work the night shift, no physical labor, easy work, short hours… Hmm.. I wonder who *IS* smarter.

(Myself aside of course. I’ve always been a “dumb” tomboy.)

You Said It!

In reply to Nutters …

Another good point. Which I hadn’t thought about, but it’s
true. Girls do make better techs. We pay attention, are not
quick to fly off the handle, and take better notes and what
not. It’s like I said in my first post about this discussion,
there needs not to be a survey to say whether or not
women and minorities lured into these positions are there
to show whether or not we can survive. It’s basically the
same scenario all across the board here and in other
countries. But at least here in the US, the rules are little
different when it comes to women in tech positions and
other high level positions.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that (in my opinion),
that this is an attempt to exploit women and minorities as
well as identify racism in a whole different avenue. What’s
the point?

Females and minorities in tech fields

In reply to Women, minorities & tech: What the hell do they think?

As a member of both the above groups, please allow another explanation of the movement to recruit “us” into the tech industry.

I’ve been in the computer industry for over 17 years. I chose it due to my fortunate high school background with courses in math and science, given my aptitude and interest. Had I grown up in the inner city, I’m sure this would not have been the case, but to have a discussion on the education provided to inner city children leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. A person cannot study and learn what is not provided to them. Let’s not talk about the lack of books, learning tools(ie. COMPUTERS) or quality teachers-another topic altogether.

Tech careers have tended to be in high demand and offer higher salaries(for the most part exclusinve of the HB-1 and outsourcing issues), versus low paying service jobs, where many people of color tend to be herded. Many women of color are heads of households, where a higher salary would be of great benefit.

In addition, in general, the educational system, as stated in the posted articles, DOES NOT intice young women to consider computer careers because of an INCORRECT perception that “COMPUTER GEEKS” spend all their time in front of a computer system isolated from others. How far from the truth is that? I spend much of my time working with end users and management, hence developing my “people skills” in addition to my technology skills in desktop support, networking and security. Also, a business person was quite surprised when A) a woman was dispatched to resolve a technical issue and B) which really sent up the RED flag -was a person of color can DO THIS??????? I have had this reaction far too many times.

Needless to say it the perception of what a person in technology is supposed to look like-racist & discriminitory images continue to present themselves in ALL ASPECTS of life here in the US-including which careers “girls” are best suited for. I am glad I didn’t listen to my high school advisor, since HE suggested I don’t even consider going to college(me-a honor roll student & national honor society member). “I should be a secretary” to which I mentally replied – H E L L N O !!!

Woman and minorities are quite capable to perform any and all aspects in the technology industry. What is not provided are the educational experiences, exposure and the appropriate guidance for us during the informative years.

I think the premise of the original post is wrong

In reply to Females and minorities in tech fields

The person starting the thread seems to think that engineering, science and technology education is a bad investment, and that encouraging women and minorities is a way to draw them into a sucker’s profession. I don’t think that’s right, mainly due to the point that McNeill makes. Education in these fields requires a lot of tools and equipment, something that is difficult for under-funded institutions to provide. It therefore stands to reason that this education is going to be costly. If it’s costly, then there will only be a limited population willing and able to pay for it. The drives to encourage women and minorities often are based around programs to help offset or to delay the expenses.

Also, as a grad of a technical university (many, many years ago), I can attest that it was a white bread world. Programs to encourage women and minorities were useful to provide the social networks for these groups once they got there.

Yes, that was my point.

In reply to I think the premise of the original post is wrong

> The person starting the thread seems to think that engineering, science and technology education is a bad investment, and that encouraging women and minorities is a way to draw them into a sucker’s profession.

OK, salaries seem to be a little bit higher at the moment, but that’s a dead cat bounce, IMHO. The problem is outsourceability of technical professions, for the reasons I’ve stated im my original post. One way or another, must the 1st world techies compete more or less directly with their 3rd world collegaues. To make the matters worse, must the 1st world techies pay for their education themselves, while in the 3rd world, education is paid by the state.

No buerocratic obstacle can change that substantially, only levelling of general living standards of the 1st and the 3rd world can. Until this happens, is science & technology a sucker profession in developed world.

Why is nobody trying to get women and minorities into investment banking, law, plastic surgery, and such? Why are they trying to get women and minorities, of all people, into profession nobody else wants to study for? It’s insane!

Level playing field

In reply to Yes, that was my point.

> No buerocratic obstacle can change that substantially, only levelling of general living standards of the 1st and the 3rd world can. Until this happens, is science & technology a sucker profession in developed world.

Hey, communism works! (well… on paper at least.)

“For girls”

In reply to I think the premise of the original post is wrong

I just wish that the programs that were created “for girls” weren’t just dumbed down versions of the stuff “for boys”. I played with G.I. Joe’s and beheaded my Barbie’s when I was a kid (Okay, okay, so I never said I was a “normal” girl!), I don’t need you to add Barbies and makeup so I’ll “like it”.

I wouldn’t need nor want you to dumb down the requirements of whatever program you’re trying to gear towards girls/minorities. If I were that interested and had the time to do so, I’d expect a competition with rules just as harsh as any co-ed contest. Otherwise, what’s the point?

One example was a “Programming games for girls” contest (you had to design and code any sort of game geared for younger girls to be played on the pc) had rules that were actually rather insulting. (http://g4g.cs.uiuc.edu/) or (http://www.cs.rit.edu/~hae/newsitems/GirlsProgrammingContest.html)

Basically, they keep stressing that “It will be created using GameMaker, a game design platform that supplies design flexibility and requires minimal programming.” (How you can hold a *Programming* competition with a minimum of programming is beyond me.)

Things like that are more likely to turn people off than bring them in. At least in my opinion.

What part of the opening post did you not read

In reply to Females and minorities in tech fields

These latest posts completely ignored the point of the original post (note his clarification in the third post). Technical professional salaries are down about 50 percent on an inflation adjusted basis from my fathers aerospace career through the fifties and sixties. The Clinton and Bush ?globalization? campaigns are inviting India and China et. all to further compete for our tech jobs, putting more downward pressure on salaries and job security. JK just found it a bit too ironic that Washington is starting a big PR push to attract women and minorities into a field that they are simultaneously trying very hard to outsource to Asia.

Then Close out Poli – Science curriculum

In reply to Women, minorities & tech: What the hell do they think?

Or Philosophy. These are both of little use in the real world. How about social work degree programs? Leave college with 80 grand worth of debt and get a job paying 20 grand per year.

People choose their career path at their peril. To try to push people into a career path to realize some sort of demographic goal is foolhardy.

Once again, let the free market handle it.

But then, academia is the place where theoreticians rule and common sense is an abstract concept.

To quote Chevy Chase in Caddyshack; “the world needs ditch diggers, Danny”.

Point Well Taken

In reply to Women, minorities & tech: What the hell do they think?

I highly agree with what you are saying, and agree that this
is another form of racism. As if we don’t have enough to
worry about as it is being “black” or just the idea of being
called a minority. I always stay away from these types of
things because I don’t know need a survey or campaign to
tell me whether or not I am capable of a specific career, or
just to find out whether or not I have the skills and
qualifications to survive in today’s competitive workforce.

I had a discussion with a friend of mind who was telling me
that (and this was very disturbing) that if me and a white
woman were competing for the same job, and had the same
educational background and skills, and same qualifications,
that the white woman was more than likely to get the job
over me as well as higher pay than original offered. While
this scenario was very disturbing to me, it seemed that why
should color be a deciding factor in any career.

I stepped in the IT industry with very little credentials,
learnined by trial and error, but I was not labeled smart or
incompetent for lack of ability to do the job right the first
time.

Frankly, I am sick of bureaucrats finding lip-bulb ideas to
separate cultures by pointing out what they believe to be
the flaws that keep then down.

And no it’s not about race or gender. It never should be
about what color you or are whether you’re a man or
woman or in between, but that job security is an important
issue to always consider. And no survey or campaign
should that of what makes the decision for you,

Tokenism again

In reply to Women, minorities & tech: What the hell do they think?

I’ve always felt people who do this are closet bigots. I’m pale male myself, but how insulting would it be if you got picked for a job because of your sex or colour. Course if jobs are scarce and you’ve got a family to feed, you got to leave your pride at home.
As for the state of the industry now, that’s immaterial in educational terms, there will be another boom and another slump in every generation.
Sometimes you just have to be dedicated and wait for the good times.

Why?

In reply to Tokenism again

Why don’t they direct women and minorities into stable and profitable professions, if their well being is so bloody important? Why exactly women & minorities of all people, and why exactly tech of all professions?

> . . . , there will be another boom and another slump in every generation.
> Sometimes you just have to be dedicated and wait for the good times.

Yea, that’s how it goes

http://techrepublic.com.com/5254-6257-0.html?forumID=99&threadID=180722&messageID=1873703&id=4210633

Ideal profession for http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/reconstruction/section3/section3_01b.html

Horses for courses

In reply to Why?

My ideal profession was IT, is IT and will be IT. Started learning at 13 and I’ve never wanted to do anything else. Despite heroic effort by the government at the time I started my career to end it prematurely, they failed because it’s what I wanted to do.
I’d still recommend a career it IT to anyone who had a talent and a desire for it. I’d never recommend for those who have neither. We got enough of those buggers in the last boom to tide us over ’til the next one. They are the main reason for the current devaluation of our skills.

I agree with you; if you don’t have…

In reply to Horses for courses

the talent or desire, then maybe IT isn’t for that person. Not to say that talent is the supreme prequisite. But with working hard and learning hard, learning the IT craft can be a rewarding experience.

“I’d still recommend a career it IT to anyone who had a talent and a desire for it. I’d never recommend for those who have neither. We got enough of those buggers in the last boom to tide us over ’til the next one. They are the main reason for the current devaluation of our skills.”

I only agree with this because wasn’t a racial issue–it went across the board. And I know of a few minorities who has high level IT positions and I know more in my little pinky toe than they do in their whole wardrobe *ROFL*.

By the way, I wrote my first program when I was 11 years old and never looked back.

it is a bit bizarre…

In reply to Women, minorities & tech: What the hell do they think?

When interviewing for my most recent post, I had several employers target me as a woman.

They would call and say things like “Oh, it would be great for the Company to have a woman addition to our IT team…” I wasn’t sure if I should be insulted? It is a bit self-esteem damaging, because before it was always an uphill battle and I knew if I got a position it was because of my SKILLZ!

In line with the original post, it raises another question – were they also looking to get a bargain??

I’m not sure though, anything that gets the word out about these kinds of positions to girls while they are young enough to still pick that would be good. I didn’t know (other than programming) what IT WAS until I stumbled into a sysadmin internship in college.

p.s. If its not math, science, IT , or engineering, what DO the smart people in developed countries study these days to get money and job security???

Psychology

In reply to it is a bit bizarre…

marketing, accounting, law, business.
Soft skills, particularly people related are the thing at the moment. Course if you are just going in to education now, go for maths, tech and hard sciences or vocational as they will be a shedload of the above competing for the available positions.
If you want to know what the needed skills in six years time are going to be, contact Mystic Meg as good as chance of being right as anyone. Conversely see what Gartner recommend and do the absolute opposite.

PS Mystic Meg is(was?) a ‘popular’ astrologer in a major UK Tabloid.

You will go on a long journey – career choice astronaut, or conductor on the orient express.

PPS
Gartner area bunch of know nothing assholes who ‘sell’ ideas to know nothing management.

Hey, Tony. You still working in Lancashire?

In reply to Psychology

Cos you seem a bit grumpy still…

:p

Sensitive?

In reply to it is a bit bizarre…

I don’t think I would ever say something like – “it would be great for the company…”. But I might think it.

Sometimes you look for balance. But there is no reason to think that you got the job because of your sex. Most sane hiring managers, myself included, hire based on skills, but some times if the skills are equal you look for other factors of what the candidate might bring to the team. You might hire an older person if you wanted more maturity etc.

I’ve never taken sex or age into account when looking at salaries. I go into the process with a target in mind, and a range on either side of the target. A person with more experience might demand more money, but they might price themselves out of the range.

The last time I interviewed, I had two great candidates, a man and a woman. I think frankly either of them would have worked out well. My boss ( a woman) and the HR rep (a woman) both encouraged me to hire the woman, as they connected with her and thought she might add something interesting to my all male team(think they wanted to shake it up).

But part of the interview process was a practical test and I had the previous holder of the position (who had been promoted to another job) ajudicate the test. At the end of the day, the test broke the tie for me – I gave it to the person who did better on the test, who happened to be male.

Job security – I am sorry, it doesn’t exist, because our economy is constantly changing. The best way to have security is to invest in yourself and your skills and keep them up to date.

Its interesting, I was listening to public radio (CBC in Canada) ont he drive home the other night, and they were talking about a program to give scholarships to women to encourage them to become train engineers. Its seems they need 400 more freight train engineers, they have trouble getting them, and they want women to get the training and apply, so that they have a broader base of applicants to chose from. I don’t see anything wrong with wanting to broaden the base of applicants, as long as at the end of the day, you don’t hire based on sex.

James

Some thoughts I would like to share…

In reply to Women, minorities & tech: What the hell do they think?

I’d like to appologize for the rambling and tangent jumping in this post. But hopefully, some comment can be gathered from my words:

You know…being an black/african american’afro american/whatever, I never had to be lured into, dragged into IT, or for that matter science in general. back in the 80s, I don’t even remember there being a call for luring minorities and women into the science and tech fields. For me, I didn’t need to be enticed by dreams of making lots of money or just the need to replace numbers. I was a naturally curious person that had a gift for using a computer. I had a decent educational career growing up. For half of my life (public school education), I went to to school in a very flourishing , basically rich public school district; Good schools, good teachers, culturally diversed. The second half, I went to a very small, underachieving public school district that was all african american. Poor economy, not enough teachers…you name it. But, I remained interested in science. Back then..I say “back then” like it was 30-40-50 years ago, but it was just over 10 years since I graduated high school and the push to encourage minorities to the science field wasn’t in existant. And if it was, not to the extent that is is today.

Maybe what people should be doing is talking to people like me (minorities and non-minorities) to to how and why we are so able to be naturally attracted to the sciences without encouragement. How is it that some of us who aren’t honor roll students, Honor Society members can still go into a field and do well. There’s only so much encouraging can do. I’ve had classmates who were encouraged in some way to go into IT/IS/Computer Science because of the money and all that jazz. But once they started doing the coursework, they got bored…didn’t like all of the work. This was male and female students. So what’s the use of encouraging minorities and women when if you have 10 men and women to go into a program and then 9 drop classes or change majors completely? And this is just in college.

This paragraph is the last section of one of those articles that was posted by this topic’s originator:
“The Loneliest Number

Meszaros and Chase focused on that word: “isolation.”

The perception that a computer career means working alone is a turn-off to middle- and high-school girls who prefer to work in groups. More so than men, girls and women appreciate the social aspects of their jobs. They prefer to work together.

That doesn’t surprise Meszaros. “We know that women are more relational in their working careers than are men,” she said.

According to “Tech-Savvy,” a report from the American Association of University Women, “Girls are concerned about the passivity of their interactions with the computer as a ‘tool.'” When it comes to choosing a career, girls “assert a ‘we can, but I don’t want to’ attitude toward computer technology.”

Girls don’t want to end up working alone. And that’s what geeks do.

“They don’t see the I.T. field as being a field where they can help people,” said Meszaros.

The AAUW backs her up: “Girls tend to imagine that computer professionals live in a solitary, antisocial and sedentary world,” it said in its report. “This is an alienating — and incorrect — perception of careers that will rely heavily on computer technology.”

Hollins and Seckinger agreed wholeheartedly. “I don’t want to sit in front of a computer all day,” they said, disturbingly, in unison. ”

I’ve seen that in the eyes of those same example of students that I mentioned that would drop out. Even with talking to women friends of mine who aren’t in IT, they have the perspection that I spent all of my time in front of the monitor, that I don’t interact with anyone. I try to explain to them, like many of my fellow IT workers, because of the position that I have and the lack of other IT professional, I’m a jack-of-all trades. No everyone is willing to work by themselves, even though it’s not an ordinary part of working in IT. But like in the paragraph says, “Sitting in front of a computer equates to isolation”.

Are tech fields that much more than any other field? Is a DBA position greater than a neuro biophysiologist??? Both require knowledge and experience and both are needed. The goal of encouraging is a noble goal. But how it’s done is key. I don’t know many times when I’ve told people what I do or what I’m going to school for, the automatically say “Computers? That’s where the money is” and comments like that. And I get encouragement from them to keep on going. But they are coming from the context of “he’s going to make money in the future”. I get really offended by that. I’m starting to think that’s a cultural image that’s held because you don’t hear that being said if a person is a doctor or a lawyer.

There are so many different reason why the encouragement isn’t working. But there are equally as many reasons to why the system of IT is more the reason why there is an IT shortage. Is this the solution???

I’ve never understood it

In reply to Women, minorities & tech: What the hell do they think?

I always thought that an employer would want the best person in the position to do the job…not a specific gender, ethnicity, or what not.

I understand that there are bias and biggoted people still existing in the world. But, the solution is not to implement law requiring or even giving incentive to hire “minorities” into positions.

The real solution is to get rid of the plague that is the biased or biggoted person. If they only hire a certain race or creed, they are the ones who are truly hurting an employer.

And after all…if government and law was truly fair, men would be considered a minority. After all, women make up more than 50 percent of the world population. :^O

Also,

In reply to I’ve never understood it

scientifically speaking… The ‘Y’ chromosome is a mutated ‘X’. Therefore men are simply mutated women. ]:)

hmmm…

In reply to Also,

that’s why I have always had those lesbian tendencies… ]:)

Shall I.,..

In reply to hmmm…

be the first one to comment on your comment? *evil grin*

about what?

In reply to Shall I.,..

me being a lesbian trapped in a man’s body? :^O

I need a girlfriend like a Timex…hahahaah :^O

I’m gonna stop now before I get banned. ]:)

Glad u have a…

In reply to about what?

good sense of humor. I was biting my nails on that *laughing*

oversaturated

In reply to Women, minorities & tech: What the hell do they think?

Why do they feel the need to go out of their way to recruit people who don’t even want to be in the field? There was enough of that in the dot com boom where people got into the field merely for the money. It isn’t like the market isn’t already oversaturated. There are tons of qualified people with years of experience who are looking for work.

Because…

In reply to oversaturated

…they are not looking at the unemployed qualified
individuals who could very well do the job with their eyes
closed and their hands tied behind their backs. They don’t
give a hoot about them. They’re looking at how many
people (unqualified) they can put into the field who most
likely wont last a full 30 days in the field — especially if
they have no interest in the field. I don’t know if they are
trying to decrease the percentage of men and women on
the unemployment line in an indirect manny, or what, but it
appears to me that unless they are going to pay for the
necessary education, and time it takes to motivate and
encourage, and convince them that this is where they
should be without exploring the income possibilities, it’s a
bomb waiting to explode.

Software and women

In reply to Women, minorities & tech: What the hell do they think?

I know the woman’s team which creates software for woman Victoria’s Clothes orginizer and Woman Calendar

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