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You know . . .

By Number 6 ·
I'm one of those fool exiles which lives in the Phoenix metro area -- and we counter with one of the world's biggest (if not the biggest) NUCLEAR plants in OUR backyard.

Anyone who's just driven through this blasted desert wasteland knows there's a lot more opportunity for Ol' Sol to make juice here than just about anywhere else on Earth.

Yet, our local power authorities, in their infinite wisdom, have only put up a few odd "boutique" solar projects; interminably testing for "feasibility".

Does anybody out there see a problem with this?

It reminds one of the domestic industry which has grown up around "finding a cure" for cancer, whilst ignoring (and continually adding to) the flood of carcinogens which comprise "meat and drink" for us on a daily basis...

Food for thought --

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The "don't do ANYTHING" attitude

by khigh In reply to We hear the stupidity rin ...

is dangerous also. Not only did we stop building in 1978, most types of upgrades been getting blocked as well. I live with in 10 miles of TMI (Three mile Island), and knowing that many of those upgrades that could have made the site safer and more efficient is disconcerting to say the least!

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Flood of carcinogens?

by NickNielsen In reply to You know . . .

Really? Where? Why wasn't it on TV?[/sarcasm]

Over the past several years, I have viewed the ever-increasing list of carcinogens with ever-increasing skepticism. It seems you can't go a month without another item being loudly hailed a a potential carcinogen. Then you do a little digging and discover that you would have to drink the equivalent of 4 cases of diet soda a day for 30 years to increase your chances of getting liver cancer by 1%. Or 5 full-strength (Starbucks?) pots of coffee a day for 40 years to increase your chances of getting pancreatic cancer by the same amount. Or similar extreme quantities for almost miniscule increases in risk.

Attention! Everything is bad for you in excess, even oxygen! Moderation in everything and a healthy diet. Genetics no doubt has some effect, but if you keep yourself healthy to start, your chances of surviving anything are better.

Two observations:

1. The "bad for you" babies have cried so often about so many things that I don't even listen any more. I'm a big boy and accept the responsibility for my actions. I don't need a nanny any more.

2. The major cause of cancer in laboratory rats is laboratory scientists. 100% correlation! Look it up.

Now that I'm done, you should know that I also browse with a healthy skepticism. Extremism in any form is never pretty.

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Large corps dumping them

by wdewey In reply to Flood of carcinogens?

I think he is talking about industrial waste. The number of people/animals dying because of industrial waste has increased dramatically since the industrial revolution. There have been many studies that show if "find the cure" people stopped putting more chemicals into the ground then we wouldn't need a cure.


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by Kiltie In reply to You know . . .

We have a responsibility for the legacy we leave future generations.<br><br>

I read once that organic reserves on our planet will run out in 2026. I don't believe that - the date that is - but I do believe that they will be running out soon, maybe not in my lifetime, maybe not in my daughters, but certainly in her daughters lifetime.<br><br>

It really puzzles me that so-called environment groups get up in arms against wind farms huh? What are they thinking of? We are raping our planet, something needs to be done NOW, not when it is necessary, as there is a lot of scientific and engineering research to be done first.<br><br>

However, prior to that, there needs to be a change in the mindset of those who wield power. This is happening, I think, but will take a generation. Youth of today (and yesterday) are being influenced by "green" type education and entertainment (Captain Planet?) and one day they will be in positions of authority and power, able to make the vital decisions for all of us.<br><br>

<u><i>Isn't it up to us to get the whole thing started, so that they have some infrastructure to work with when they do?</i></u><br><br>

Two generations down the line, they will look back at their grandsires and think....<br><br>

<B><I>"What poor, misguided, selfish fools"</I></B>
Can we not do better than we are, to leave them a richer legacy?<br><br>

EDIT: added code for emphasis and formatting

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by 35rjt In reply to You know . . .

Solar power is not yet cost competative with nuclear power and may never be.

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the real cost

by Colonel Panijk In reply to Cost/KWH

Take away all the government subsidies for nuclear, including insurance; add in the true cost of R&amp and how to dispose of the leftovers (both fuel, as we refuse to do breeders or reprocessing, and the plant itself); and you'll find that nukes are so much more expensive that solar and wind become quite competitive.

Regarding the question in the original article, the reason that Phoenix doesn't want to fill up land with solar arrays or wind farms is simple. Where are they going to put all those new homes and businesses and lawns and swimming pools and golf courses and highways and...?

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REAL Real Goods

by kenos In reply to You know . . .

OK- I LIVE amongst tree huggers,(NW CAL)and Solar USED to be bulky & EXPENSIVE.. USED to be.. but I DO know that if ya look at Real Goods website, the prices on Solar & Wind (and OTHER Technologies of the sort) are looking pretty darned good now.. PLUS what a neato thing- to get a check FROM the local Power Co...
Think @ it..kenos

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Power & Benjamins

by Grimshiire In reply to You know . . .

Everything can be done.....The technology is available to lessen our reliance on foreign OIL. Alternative power generation can be accomplished & is being used successfully now!

BUT - This will NEVER HAPPEN as the 7 Deadly Sins rule the money grubbing scumbags of humanity. When will there be SPECIAL INTREST for the people?

Only 2 things will change our views & save the planet for our children:

1. When we have no other means of generating Power for our country?

2. When we have Blackened our planet to the point of extinction?

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by harry.k.anderson@wellsfar In reply to You know . . .

We need a mix, but Solar on a commercial scale is cost prohibitive.

170 watts (62.8"X31.1" panel costing $880)

1 unit at Palo Verde 1243 mwe (megawatts electric)

To replace the power of 1 nuclear unit at Palo Verde with these Solar Cells would require 7,311,764 units = $6,434,352,320,
lets assume a 50% discount for a large purchase $3,217,176,160. This would require almost 760 acres of land just for the
solar collectors.

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How many acres of rooftops already exist...

by turnier In reply to Energy

... and/or are being built, and aren't they already tied into the grid? As you point out, I think a primary constraining issue remains the "bang for the buck" -- panel efficiencies still need to go up and prices down.

Also (BTW), did you know that most (I've heard over 90%) of the power generated by PV goes to California, not AZ?

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