A Job Offer?????

You seem to have a situation where you have a great deal of autonomy and freedom. A bigger paycheck does not mean a happier life, or a more fullfilling career.

Before I jumped I would ask some hard questions - about potential areas for career growth etc.

I'd also hesitate to work for an ERP vendor while the selection is still going on - if you move it might be seen as trying to get an inside track - and if the vendor who hires you doesn't get the end contract, who says they won't quietly lay you off.

I would not approach until the deal is signed, and only then if you still think that the company dealt with your current employer fairly.

I've been given that line before -by one of the big consulting firms. By the time I needed a new job, their hiring ability had dried up. I don't doubt that they were sincere, but on the other hand they were also flattering me as well, in order to smooth things over. Be careful about jumping ship before you know what kind of waters you are diving into.

James

Never quit, or even mention it, to a current employer until you have a signed contract with the new employer.

Never accept a counteroffer from the old employer.

It never hurts t explore possibilities. Be sure you interview them at least as much as they interview you.

You will have to think very clearly. What is the salary difference? What are the working conditions? What does your family think? If all are positives and there is job security then go for it.

The one philosophy that has served me the best is "If you love what you do and where you are, you will never *work* a day in your life." To say it another way if you like where you are, then every day will feel fun and there is no need to move into a position that may cause you pain later, short or long term. It seems to me, that money is your only reason to move, and from the way you state your problem, money doen't move you too much. Than i guess you are quite happy with your current position despite the day to day quirks (and we all have quirks =P). Given what you say i would stay right where you are.

so for what it was worth there ya go.
hope it all works out for you.

You mention that you are a family man. Ultimately, your decision is gonig to weigh heaviest on them. Your wife will have to listen to your complaints if it doesn't work out, and working for a larger company usually carries less acknowledgement of your achievements than someone who really needs your expertise. Not to mention the extra hours you will inevitably be called in to cover - taking you away from your kdis. Is your career/life/definition of success based on the money you make? If yes, then your decision is easy. To hell with everyone else and follow the money. If you like having more personal satisfaction, personal free time, higher appreciation for your efforts, then you need to stay where you are. There are "pains in the can" in every job. Larger companies usually carry larger pains. Be ready for that if you think you are going to get away from the stress and frustraion by switching jobs. Once the euphoria of the new position wears off, you will find that not much has changed, and you may have a lot more "pain" to deal with.

Given that you like your job and are happy with what you are doing - do you have the ability to discuss with 'the family owners' a better compensation package. With the scope of your responsibilities and comparing what you are doing to other opportunities in your area (I would not mention any job offers) see what they will do about increasing your salary and benefits.

Good luck!

You write that one of the companies you are looking at has emailed you about potentially hiring you; is the project with the vendor completed, or are they just trying to keep you interested in them? Maybe they just want to hire you so that they can keep a relationship with the company after the project is completed.

Does the vendor deal with a lot of clients that don't run domains, and specialize in large computer workgroups?

Sounds like they are interested in hiring a sales/consulting position...

From your post, you sound interested, I'd get all the details of the new position in writing, negotiate a salary, and talk it over with your wife.

It's hard to leave your comfort zone, but in the long run, you may be better off.

Mike

Make your job choice based upon what you enjoy doing. My advice would be that if you are currently employed doing what you like most, you are better off than most who do a job and don't enjoy it.

Remember one thing....it should never be about the money. The money will come at whatever job you perform as you exhibit your talents and traits within the job itself. Your very soul will shine when you perform job functions that you fully enjoy, but it should never be about the money. If you jump ship for .50-cents every time you get the offer you will never grab the meaning of what it is you are working for, and eventually burn out will occur.

Don't go for the money....go for the job fulfillment, the money will follow you my friend.
I've watched this happen over and over again.

Signed,

Mike Bowers

Each individual is different. I've turned down jobs because I was happy in the job I was in. You need to decide whether you have enough money coming in to send your children to college? Also, is the family owned business your in sound and likely to last? Is the company you are considering sound and likely to last? I read stories occasionally of couples who have chucked everything and moved to the country where the cost of living was less and they downsized their needs. In a way I envied them. A key question would be "are you growing in the current job?"

I JUST turned down an offer to be a market development manager for an ERP sales firm focused specifically on the Automotive industry. :D

Whenever I have worked somewhere, I have ALWAYS had clients offer me positions. I will ALWAYS check them out, leave no stone unturned and all that stuff.

For the most part it is exploratory and in many cases it is nowhere near as good an offer as I already have, but nothing ventured nothing gained.

I am single now, my son is grown and independant and I am a person who has NO problem doing something completely different, if it doesn't work out, I'll find something else. I have no restraints or limitations except what I am willing to do and how much money I am willing to accept.

Having a family doesn't afford that same luxury I suppose.

All that aside, venture out and investigate, you have nothing to lose and possibly everything to gain. In some cases it will just make you feel happier with your existing position, as I had found several times myself. It was like a second wind for me.

Best of luck with whatever you choose, I suppose in IT these opportunities don't come along as often, in a sales field, EVERY salesman gets numerous offers each year to go and work elsewhere. It is part of the job, it also makes you feel wanted though, and that's a good thing.

You mentioned that your current firm has stability, an almost unheard of concept in IT these days. I say stay !

Jim Kelly

I've read most everyone's comments so far and I will read the rest over the rest of the afternoon.

I'm stuck guys. The things that hold me here are as follows

Security - I came here from a long line of ups and downs, on again, off again jobs. The salary wasn't the best but it was steady and I'm not worried about being canned because they would be hard pressed to find another employee to come on for what they are asking and offering.

My Network - The network is mine from the ground up. I build it, often cobbled, rigged solutions but it's mine.

Reasons to Leave

Pay - underpaid by about $20 a year for the area
Time - I work on average 70 hours a week just trying to keep this thing alive
Commitment - None, the owners have ponied up slim to none of what was discussed coming in.

I am not overly happy but the job is secure in an insecure market.

I guess the question is more whether any of you would consider the offer legitimate or if you would view it as just a sales tactic to get in the door.

To answer the one question that I can remember, I am guessing it would be either in implementation or project management.

Thanks

J

You have a dream job where you can explore technology. Family owned is better than corporate raped. I was dismissed after 21 years of "loyalty" to a corporation. It may seem better on the other side, but the lack of ethics in corporate America make the change suspect.

On a piece of paper, write down all of the facets of a job that matter to you. Prioritize those based upon their relative importance; i.e., autonomy, challenge, learning, salary, bonuses, location, stability, management, etc. Now, using a scale of 1-3 or 1-5, score each category for the two jobs you're comparing. As you work your way through the exercise, you may find that the answer becomes apparent. In any event, this provides a relatively objective way of comparing your options.

I can't comment on the subterfuge/back door thing, suggest you get a good sense of integrity of the parties first.

I'm coming at this as a CIO with >20 years experience in a variety of companies, from startups to global.

Here's my thoughts, to do with as you wish:

1. 4 people, as400--your position may be secure now, but how marketable is that skillset 2 years from now, 3,4? A prospective employer will be more interested in your ability to help drive the org. in new directions, not how well you can staple antiquated machines together.

2. College, private school, material goods? Don't know your situation, but higher pay is valuable if it can provide important things for your family--but you have to go to work and stretch and anguish every day. If you don't like what you do and who you are with, the money can't compensate.

3. Being a customer and being a vendor are very different. If you are thinking of leaving, do not ever go to a place just to leave unless you believe you will be there for a long time (whatever that means).

4. It is your life abd your career. Take control. In summary:First, what is important to you, how do you want to live your life regarding the job/family balance. Second, If your current employment was not available, where would you want to be?

Much luck, this is a big choice. And remember, your family loves you. What you do is not who you are.

.
...which one would you do?

There's the answer.

The money will follow. (However, you may have to find a way to drag it along.)

J -- It's clear to me that "out here" we don't have enough information to answer "Is it legit or a leverage tactic?", and it sounds like you might not either. Lack of information is at the root of most dilemmas.

I have a few questions you might ask yourself:

What would you need from your current employer for you to not consider the vendor opportunity at all?

What would you need from the vendor for you to leap without hesitation?

Do your current company culture and job align with your values, priorities, personality, and long-term goals? Do the vendor's?

Do you have the kind of relationship with your company that you can ask for what you need?

It's not an easy situation and there are no pat answers. The best you can do is get as much information as possible and check in with yourself along the way to make sure you're staying authentic to yourself and your family.

Best of luck to you!

Sue Brundege
Professional Coach
www.selfmadeself.com

Cover your own can. Don't worry about the place your at. While they have paid you and treated you well, if you need a raise, tell them.

If they don't give you one, then negotiate with the other company. If you stay there, the rock will strike your forehead.

These kinds of situations make me nervous. I wouldn't think about it BUT...I would not give up without due diligence. This is the twist. It's a tough market out there.

I would research your potential company thoroughly! Make sure that it's a situation that would NOT be good for you before I said no.
For me...I always rely on instinct to a big degree. If it doesn't feel right...don't do it.
Even if it's too complex or even confusing, I think twice and 3 times about the 'opportunity'.

Best of luck to you my man!

Allow me to give you my few cents worth! I have a few ways to look at this! I'll take this route for now - It sounds to me like your passion is in need of a reality check.. It's like this: when someone sees that your happy and at the top of your game.. Shining and doing your best - they want a piece of that action... In this case - your potential employer would love for you to work for them and harness what you have..Pay you more - give you more benefits..But besides the illusion of financial security..would you be really passionate and just as creative working there! .. You have a secure job now; you have respect and admiration, your familiar with everyone there, you have freedom to create the technological things that your family owned company needs..Why distrupt your flow?... You could always get a side job and there are many ways to invest what you have to get more later on without leaving your current job.. But don't quit for extra money that may not make you happy later on..Then you won't be at the top of your game!! Only quit if your not advancing or your not passionate about what you do !!

Next time someone says "if you would ever be interested in a job.....", tell them that, although you are not looking, you are interested in evaluating interesting opportunities. This will help separate the casual empty talk from real offers. Since you have a family to consider, you should be very picky about what type of situation you are willing to accept.

Good luck.

Craig Herberg