"Big Brother"

Since it is in the larger interest for both students and teachers, the monitoring is justified, only how it is implemented will decide whether they take in a positive or negative way.
Take them into confidence and educate them, particularly the students.
Alternately you can bar undesired "sites" on your server.

The school has the corporate right, and responsibility, to see that inappropriate use of the system does not occur, but this is an extremely provocational way of doing it. There are much easier and cheaper ways to get the same result. The keystroke monitoring software will require a lot of someone's time to check and is very invasive and denies any privacy.

The aims of the system should be to stop access to unapproved inappropriate web sites and abusive language, right.

Most mail client and web browsers now have built in controls to eliminate inappropriate language.

There are dozens of applications that can be placed on the gateway server that monitors website access and can easily be set to bar access to black listed websites. So when you see someone access one that is not appropriate you add it to the black list and bar future access.

There should be no need for staff or students to access chat or IM programs outside the school, so just block those ports at the gateway. This allows the use of chat and IM within the organisation but blocks exterior usage or access. The unaproved web based services like this can be put on the web site black list.

Even the students have a right to say what they like in their personal diaries or to use what passwords they want. A very common soft way of releasing anger re systems is to use abusive passwords, and that is really their business and no one elses.

The keystroke business can also lead to other problems. I once worked in a place where a fellow could not not send emails to a close friend in asia due to excessive monitoring and managing software - it eliminated the emails as abusive as the asian gentleman's email address was ifuk@.... his name was Ian Fuk (and old and not uncommon asian name.) The system must have some way to allow sensibility of use. Excessive and confrontational controls like you mention are just a clear statement that they do NOT want the students or staff using the school system at all.

I would not be surprised to see the students rally and refuse to utilise the school IT system, and then where will the school be. The students won't get as good grades as they should and that will adversely reflect upon the school and the teaching staff. Also the low usage rate of the system would ague against any future upgrades or expansion of services and staff - it would argue for reductions of them.

I manage computer networks for a number of schools in our area. One common thing we have implemented is Deep-Freeze which takes care of the spyware and virus side of things.

The second part of our standard practice is what is applicable in this case. We use a monitoring program which does screen captures sliding scale depending on amount of activity. it will go as often as 1 frame per second, or 1 frame every 5 minutes depending on the level of usage... ie no changes to screen, less frames shot.

These "movie" files are stored on the server in a controlled area and are "spot checked" by senior staff for possible problems. Also, in the event there is any problems with a student or staff member, the files associated with thier use can and are reviewed.

This practice has averted several predator situations, several bullying situations, and a few other incidents which ended up being turned over to local authorities.

I am a vocal proponant of privacy, however when it comes to our children, I think the fact that this program saved at least one (and in fact several) children from negatively life altering events makes the social cost worth it.

It should be noted that it is the policy of the programs I am involved it to not persue transgressions which are not life threatening and are otherwise legal. IE if a kid happens to go to a porn site, they are not going to have the system come down on them. (Although it is against the "official" accepted uses policy) However if that visit leads to inappropriat contact from a possible predator, then action is taken.

What's wrong with "Big Brother" watching what's going on with "His" equipment and money? Schools are there for learning. If the teachers and students want to go to chat rooms and X rated sites... let them do it at home on THEIR computers where no one will be watching them.

I am sorry, but I have very little sympathy for your complaint. In response to your concern:

1) It is a ?corporate?, taxpayer paid, computers and network. They have a legal right to make sure it is being used for education and not entertainment or diversion from the task at hand - either teaching a child to think as well as a child or teacher to research or educate more completely. IM should be blocked completely.

2) In today?s litigious society, it seems that every reasonable technological protection should be employed. Barely a month goes by where the print media has some sensational story about a teacher having some sort of inappropriate relations with a student, child porn, etc. or a child bringing a gun or worse to school intending on harming someone or protecting themselves from a bully. If they intend on having computers in the school, this software is probably what is reasonable to protect themselves.

3) Unless you are doing something wrong, why are you complaining?

Slightly off topic:

Although there is a great deal of educational information on the internet, I am opposed to computers even being in schools as I believe it diverts the focus from teaching and learning - with some exception to some of the educational programs more likely on CD/DVD these days. There are exceptions where there is a teacher who can really use it as a tool, but this is often not the case. I know a number of teacher that are technologically inept, but very good at explaining/teaching. Google is not the only way to research and other ways are being pushed aside and may not taught. I believe in the ?Feed a person fish and they will eat well tonight, Teach a person to fish and they will know how to feed themselves the rest of their life?. Schools need to teach critical thinking, how to research, looking at multiple resources to find answers - not how to look things up on a computer.

A computer is a tool, no more, no less. As a teacher a number of years ago taught me, ?If all you have is a hammer in your toolbox, all your problems start to look like nails?.

I don't think it is a bad thing to stop the students and teachers from entering such websites. I think that people that enter these sites at a work or school have something wrong with their heads.Even if you think that just chatting isn't a concern it is how many of these teachers are married and if at college how many of these students are married? Well in case they don't know it if they are entering into these sites talking about hooking up or flirting and or entering the xrated websites and they like what they see then they are in one form commiting adultry because to lust with ones eyes is the same as doing the deed. I am not some crazy spiritual Guy. But I belive that at certain places such as School,Work,and Government places there should be hard penelties for entering these sites and there should be a program to watch this also That is a good thing. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to give my opinion.

Though some of the details are missing, this sounds like the most unobtrusive means of monitoring.

I do feel the school has a responsibility for the way its resources are useand it is not acceptable for the school to do nothing. Having a computer system without a man in the loop monitoring activity seems to protect the privacy of those making legitimate use of resources. What is unclear is who is notified. Is the notification a pop-up to the user, a keyboard lock-out, a message to the system staff, or what?

Of concern to legitimate users would be the policies around access to the logged keystrokes. How long are the keystrokes kept? Are they stored on disk or sent over the network? Are they encrypted? Who has access to the keystrokes? Can the user purge the keystroke buffer? The keystroke buffer will contain user names, passwords, credit card numbers, and other identifying information. The system must be set up to adequately guard against disclosure of this type of information.

I think an approach based on automated monitoirng of keystrokes with adequate access control would be the most benign method of monitoring system access. I believe this would protect the rights of the innocent while admitting some are not quite so innocent.

why is it otherwise sensible people dont seem to realize you visit your personal favorites on your home computer and go to business related sites only when you are at the company workstations.

Network Admins have every right and infact it is their/our responsability to monitor what goes in on the network unter their care.

the proliferation of crippling spyware and firuses can be attributed primarlily to people going to unauthrorzed sites

Teachers should be teaching the curriculum, and students should be learning it. Anything not related to that curriculum should be eliminated.

As the computers are school property, there can be no expectation of privacy.

why is it otherwise sensible people dont seem to realize you visit your personal favorites on your home computer and go to business related sites only when you are at the company workstations.

Network Admins have every right and infact it is their/our responsability to monitor what goes in on the network unter their care.

the proliferation of crippling spyware and viruses can be attributed primarlily to people going to unauthrorzed sites

so if it aint your computer expect to be monitored
that is part of reasonable network security

White lists are much easier than blacklists to manage, even in the corporate technology workspace.

We have different whitelists in varying degrees of 'severity' for different groups. The whitelists are available for download (just as are many blacklists) and have categories assigned; shopping, warez, porn, children (meaning SAFE for children), etc. We apply them as ACL on the outbound router and POOF! nobody gets where they're not supposed to go!

Now, how many business users need to access new vendor sites in an organization? How many NEW web sites have you visited in the last month? (For me it has been 6, because I keep track) If you put the request into the corporate e-mail system to the IT department, they can cut and paste URLs into the whitelist in 16 seconds and reset the cache. All other users get .gov and .org type sites only!

It's a good system and I obviously need to toot my horn more on these discussions about it.

it has been argued AGAINST filtering out porn as discrimination against the poor who can't affort their own computer and internet connection. (some people are so stupid)

Then the argument is taken to extremes to try to justify their need for porn, by saying this might block someone looking up breast cancer or whatever BS excuse they could find.

The RABID liberals in America today really disgust me sometimes.

it is automatic.

type it again but with a space in the middle and it flies right through. That is why in my divorce discussion, whenever I refered to the ex as the adulterous W H O R E she is, it required spaces to keep from looking like whore.

I think went we begin to try and control every aspect of life that we are destined to be controled by another hitler an the Third R.... Ask yourself is it wrong ? We can never eliminate the dangers that exist in this world but we can surender all of our freedoms to those who would convince us that they can.

In the system implemented where I work it only records key stroke combinations. If I was to type F U it would begin to record after the word is finished F U N it realizes that it is not an offensive word therefore no report will be filed. On the other hand if a persons password is offensive it will report that person.

The bottom line on this issue is whether or not the school (or perhaps entire school system for that area) has a written policy on this topic.

First, they must have a written policy - often titled: Internet Usage Policy or Appropriate Use Policy - that users of the systems (teachers, administrators, students, etc.) agree to use the computers and internet connections for "business (education) related activities only" and are subject to monitoring.
Next, everyone using the systems must be apprised of this policy. Many companies that i work with require everyone to read and sign this policy annually and copies are kept on file. There is nothing wrong with requiring students to be responsible for their decisions and actions and have them read/sign this document as well. Seems to me like an excellent part of their education actually.

So - now everyone is educated about what is expected, what behavior is acceptable and tolerated. This all eliminates the "Big Brother" situation - no one is spying on you without your knowledge. No one is trying to trap you. The school system owns those computers and they are intended to be available for the benefit of the teachers and students - not for idle surfing and playtime - save that for your time at home the way the rest of the corporate world is expected to.

One other comment - i happen to remember a time when we did NOT have computers in schools except in limited quantities and for computer-related coursework only. Don't forget that an excellent education is completely possible without a computer on every desk and in every classroom.

because it is clear you don't understand how the constitution in the US works, or where it applies.

You have NO rights to anything other than what is told to you that you do when you are using someone elses systems.

While this IS going over board by an ego maniac, it is by no means ANY violation of ANY chonstitutional protections.

Maybe a refresher government class would be in order for you to understand the constitution?

I say they are doing a good thing. As a parent of underage children, my concern is that my child could access pornography or other web-sites that could be a potential hazard to their well-being such as chat rooms and myspace. Having these closely monitored makes me feel better as a parent. I praise the school that is taking such action to protect my child.

My employer also has safe guards in place. We aren't allowed to access pornography or gaming sites or install chatting software such as msn messenger. This is their equipment, this is time they are paying me for doing my job, NOT playing games online or chatting with friends.

There is such a lackadaisical attitude anymore in the workplace. If people had the right ethics in the first place, there wouldn't be a need for these types of practices.

Any company can legally an drightfully record and copy every email and keystroke you enter in its machines. Why not a school? Yes, I would like the educators of todays youth to pay very close attantion to what they are doing whie in school.

It would be pretty stupid not to.

Laws covering the use of telephones are VERY thin when it comes to company phones. In MOST cases, it is completely legal for your employer to listen in and record your calls as they so choose to.
I have worked quite extensively in Telecom as a quality assurance manager for CRTC and with the FCC, many people feel they have complete privacy on a company phone, but they usually don't. It's a common complaint but VERY rarely sees a courtroom as it just doesn't stand up.

I would not go into the argument about the "rights" of the corporate entity to monitor or collect information in their network, we cannot agree on that at the top levels of our government. I am sure these systems are put in place with the best of intentions to protect everyone involved. HOWEVER once the process is in place and the data is collected the problems will begin to surface. for example:
1. Your whole password security system is compromised as anyone who logs into these machines has their password recorded including Network admins, Upper level Exec's and EVERYONE. so whomever has access to the collected data can access EVERYTHING on your network!
2. Politics, Witch Hunts, Vendetta's, We all work with someone who is not above this type of "dirty work" and some climbers will stop at nothing to gain the "competitive" advantage.
3. Try and picture this not from a "protect the children" point of view but from a "security nightmare" point of view.
4. What will you do when your boss tells you that "the board" has decided they want to personally review ALL of the records themselves? how will you do this without compromising everyones security?
Yes the world is a nasty place but if your users are going to go to these places they will go there anyway from home, from a friends computer or at a cyber cafe and this is nothing but feel good campaign.
Kids, teachers, administrators are all part of the general crossection of personalities that make up our world and there will be people attracted to all sorts of differeent strokes and the internet has just made it easier. if you are really interested in "protecting the children" then sit down with them and educate them in how to protect themselves from the threats and instill the "values" that will keep them from falling prey to the scum.

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/cipa.html

The Children?s Internet Protection Act (CIPA) is a federal law enacted by Congress in December 2000 to address concerns about access to offensive content over the Internet on school and library computers. CIPA imposes certain types of requirements on any school or library that receives funding support for Internet access or internal connections from the ?E-rate? program ? a program that makes certain technology more affordable for eligible schools and libraries. In early 2001, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) issued rules implementing CIPA.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What CIPA Requires

Schools and libraries subject to CIPA may not receive the discounts offered by the E-Rate program unless they certify that they have an Internet safety policy and technology protection measures in place. An Internet safety policy must include technology protection measures to block or filter Internet access to pictures that: (a) are obscene, (b) are child pornography, or (c) are harmful to minors, for computers that are accessed by minors.

Schools subject to CIPA are required to adopt and enforce a policy to monitor online activities of minors; and

Schools and libraries subject to CIPA are required to adopt and implement a policy addressing: (a) access by minors to inappropriate matter on the Internet; (b) the safety and security of minors when using electronic mail, chat rooms, and other forms of direct electronic communications; (c) unauthorized access, including so-called ?hacking,? and other unlawful activities by minors online; (d) unauthorized disclosure, use, and dissemination of personal information regarding minors; and (e) restricting minors? access to materials harmful to them.

this is not the whole page

Way, way, WAY too much time and effort are being put into entraping, finding and creating whole new classes of sexual criminals. (Well, in the US, Canada and Great Britain anyway ... other countries don't seem to have this problem.)

Maybe we need to revive the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations or the House Un-American Activities Committe to help figure out how many "potential predators" are in schools, government, walking around town? Perhaps we need to write a book called "Perv Channels", with about as much truth as the histronic "Red Channels" from the 1950's?

and remember: Big Brother is Watching

Hi lovicott

Could you please get in touch with me psmith1@educ.somerset.gov.uk.
I work in a school and I would like to know what software you installed and if its working well.

Thanks in advance

Paula Smith
Robert Blake Science College
Brigdwater, UK

Education certainly deals with the concern of getting our childs abide by the law and protecting them for the dangers of life.

However, it might be even more important to help our children our to cope with the inherent choice any human has, even children, between licit & illicit, between right & wrong, etc. And the choice is not always easy beacause life is not black & white.

But this implies that we teach them how to make wise choices, to know what is good for them and for the others, rather than just enforcing rules.

And can you achieve that without trusting them?

About the X-rated sites on a school\employer desktop it's easy, ban those sites, it is not your pc. The other sites, as long as nothing bad comes from those site's, privacy should be leading. And the users must be aware that they are being monitored and what the consequenses can be.

Big Brother is here.

Get used to it kiddies.

What can you do? Very little.

In truth, though, every "real" IT pro on this board knows that a little effort will get you past any attempt to monitor activities.

If you think that the tech savvy generation coming along behind us isn't as capable as we were in our youth then you are kidding yourselves...

How many times did you walk into a Radio Shack and see a monitor stuck in a loop program displaying so and so "is God" or such...

The more Machiavellian or Orwellian things get the craftier those who wish to defeat these tactics will become...

"Let Freedom ring."

I think that monitoring users is a good idea especially in a school environment to protect users from sites and from predators on IM programs. The school I work in has several ways in which we control and filter what users can view but the best is the black box (securus server) which takes screenshots when a user visits any site that contains a banned word or set of banned words. It also works when typing into applications such as Microsoft word and outlook etc. It is a very useful piece of equipment to trace violating users and allows us to filter more websites that may be deemed Inappropriate.

was finally anything of interest in a Superbowl telecast - the few who saw it said it was nothing. Many said that the FCC were making a mountain out of a very small ant's nest - did not even qualify as a molehill.

Our local school is very strong at blocking sex sites but more so at blocking manga sites - talk about gratuitous sex and violence. I have not seen much manga but what I did see was bad. And some of the anime is almost as bad.

Isnt Keylogging items classed as spyware/virus type activity? When there are other ways of dealing with web access to websites, why is something that most of us have had to clear off a computer being used?
Yes, it is their system to implement this on, but something like this is far too open for abuse, an alternative would have been to look at the network traffic and check the websites accessed.
I can understand their concerns with wanting to prevent access to these websites, but if a user is looking something up about something personal, that is similar in wording to the phrase/words in the keylogger system - then the reviewer would know which user was looking up this, and by that, have the ability to misuse the information.
The admin of any network is the most trusted person in the user structure - they have access to everything on the network they are responsible for.

The priveledge is freely given and would be denied to no-one using the school equipment for legitimate purposes. These do not include playing games, viewing porn or listening to illegal MP3s. The line is quite a clear one and I would have thought it is quite a basic principle that when using someone elses property you respect it.

I say, let the kids get their "spank on" because then they won't have enough juice left or desire, to knock up your daughter and turn her into another teenage pregnancy statistic and your son's into another "my baby's daddy."

There are much more efficent ways to achive the same goal without pistol whipping peoples privacy. Not to mention the overhead it must take to be activly or passivly monitoring every keystroke, or the cost of whatever solution you have implemented. Myspace is a cesspool of pedo's and market research, block it at the perimiter. Spend the time to create a white list of url's. Poll the teaching staff and find out what sites people would like thier students visiting.

keystroke loging is just silly.

I have no difficulty with any organisation that filters out X rated sites, provided the filter works properly and doesnt block legit sites.

Im certainly uncomfortable with monitoring people's chat activity for several reasons and freedom of speech/privacy are not included.

Having lived through the misery that follows from having a child-molesting monster mess up one of my step children, I can say with some authority that those that think they are protecting kids are very often wide of the mark.

There is no simple solution when it comes to protecting them but putting them in a world-proof box is probably as bad as not protecting at all.

The people most likely to abuse your kids are more than likely already in your home or visits regularly. You have already been duped.

Chat sites are great but perhaps we should ask why we need them. Apart from specialist interest sites, what is it that is lacking that generates the need?

Forget about looking for signs of pretatory perverts....you wont see them.

The day eventually arrives when our kids have to cross the road alone. We drill them ,coach them, watch them and in nearly all cases (thank god) they get it right forever.

Making our kids aware of potential dangers that are difficult to understand (the why) or explain, present an even greater challenge.

Paranoia driven web snooping is not the answer. It points the finger at too many suspects and distracts us from the real bad-guys that are generally too damn smart to get caught that way anyway.

I think the school does have the responsibility to the children to prevent them from accessing websites that are not appropriate. The method chosen I think is a poor one. There are any number of filters and traffic loggers to log where a user goes, but to use a key logger that loggs everything typed goes a bit to far. One thing many of you suggest is that the children have a right to go where they want on the WEB. Actually they don't! I say that as a parent. We, as a society, restrict a childs right to buy porn magazines, and other "adult" products. This is the same thing. Many children typically do not exercise good judgement and do all sorts of things that get them into trouble. As a parent I restrict my childrens access to many things that can hurt them that I my self may enjoy. I drink adult beverages, I watch movies I would not let them watch, etc. If a child, using poor judgement, accesses a chat site and ends up meeting a pervert somewhere and is raped or worse there is a problem. The child does not realize the danger. Many kids have the attitude that "I know what I am doing" but they don't because they do not see the danger. We as a society have a responsibility to protect kids from themselves. Hopefully, and in most cases it is true, that by the time they reach adulthood they are wise enough to keep from getting hurt.

This is truly a double edged sword (or maybe a triple or quad depending on the situation). I don't want my grandchildrens to be allowed access to these sites and I surely don't need to see them either. It's too bad the rules of good conduct and decency are not observed and such monitoring is even required.

The US Government, through the FCC, requires schools and libraries that wish to receive certain funds and Universal Service discounts to comply with the provisions of the Children's Internet Protection Act. Read it at http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/cipa.html. Few schools and libraries can afford to lose that funding. The decision to monitor belongs to the ones who pay the bills. (Background - 36 years in public education, 23 years in IT administration.)

The PC's these people are using are the property of the school, and therefore the school has every right to protect itself from improper and potentially damaging usage. And, call me crazy, but is a SCHOOL the appropriate place for people to access X-rated sites?!?!? Not at all. I have managed PC support professionals for 10 years, and the policy at our company has been very big brother oriented - users have to login in to Web Trends to access the internet, and we track, record, and report on EVERY site they go to. Prior to having users log in there would always be one or 2 guys (even a woman) who would access a porn site at their desk and everyone could see it. Our CIO actually walked by a programmer's desk, saw him viewing x-rated material, and fired him on the spot. That was why we started the big brother approach.

Also, from a legal perspective, by someone viewing x-rated material in the workplace there is a potential to create what the law calls an uncomfortable work environment, and those offended by their colleagues viewing habits can sue the company for this. Not something your legal folks will want to go through.

So keep in mind that the equipment belongs to the school, and they cna lock it down or monitor however they want. Don't like it? Get another job.

Whoever ownes the computer has a right to control it. I own 5 computers in my home and I have every right to control how they are used. A school has every right to control how its computers are used. A county council has every right to control how computers in a library are used. Some people think ownership means nothing.
Some people think that schools and libraries are places where the authority of parents to control what their children get involved in is voided. Parents have total authority over any content that their children may be exposed to -- in the home, at school, or in the public library. Too many people want to distroy parental authority and give it to either the school or state. You need to wake up to the fact that our society is doing everything possible to erode this parental authority and guidance.

I see no problem with monitoring in the school. Today you can't be too careful and if only one child is saved or one 'bad bean' teacher is caught, it is worth it. What do the parents say? I would be happy if my children were protected. Until all the idiots are caught and the web made safe for everyone, we have to do what we can. That isn't "Big Brother" that's smart! R

...not surfing. I don't even file this under "big brother". In this case, it seems pretty obvious that while at school, both students AND teachers should only be doing the school's work/agenda. It isn't a cyber-cafe, for pete's sake.

Key stroke recording & input filtering are both wrong. The first being a security violation, and the second being censorship. If you can monitor a student's keystrokes and gain their password, then you can emulate them and frame them for anything and the one protection they should have had from the system is null and void. Profanity is the vulgate. What may be rude speech today may be high class tomorrow; speech is fluid and ever changing and evolving. Anyone remember when "gay" just meant "happy"? You kill profanity then you kill all the potential Shakespeares of the world.

You want to block specific porn or hate sites from elementary or high school, that's fine. College, nope, it should be wide open. College students are supposed to be adults in that sense anyway.

Are you taling about an elementary school? Middle/junior high? High school? Community college? Four year college? University?

Since you talk about pervs meeting under-age kids, I must presume you're referring to a junior high or high school.

Through high school, it's sure as hell appropriate (and maybe not severe enough). The institution is functioning in loco parentis and as such it's Dad and Mom watching, not some elder sibling.

The "Whose system is it?" arguments don't become relevant until you hit college level.

Cheers!
El Geeko

This is an old discussion. And it is really useless either way. And it has been this way since the begining of time. Today is the net, yesterday was the phones, faxes or whaterever is used to comunicate.

If you forbid something, then you are extrangely promoting it. Funny, right?

Ok, It sounds nice to regulate what is going on in the school and what the students ant teachers are looking at. BUT it does not work in the way the BIG BROTHER say it is intended.

The data will be misused. The students and employees will chalenge the authorities and, at the end, the school will have expended a lot of money doing anything but education.

Try instead to show how to use the net, e-mails or anything available in a proper way. And please be confident with the people. Spying is not the solution.

While it is a good idea to make sure students and/or teachers do not visit the xrated sites, it is also important how it is implemented.

Definitely using technology is helpful. But choosing the right type of technology is also key. Instead of using Key loggers, web filters that block certain sites may be more useful.

Taking the people into consideration and confidence is the next key element. If the technology is implemented without informing the targeted audience (in this case the students and teachers) the whole thing will fail. Being upfront is not optional. It is mandatory. One of the most important reasons why this is important is: any technology has its own bugs, limitations. When you take the people into confidence, these limitations will be tolerated and taken in the proper light, than when they were not informed upfront.

Also, when they are informed upfront, they know what to expect. Most people will backout on their own. Meaning, they will not visit the sites in the first place. Few others will hope the system will not work. The remaining very very few will actually try to defeat the system.

In terms of communicating the strategy upfront, something on the lines of "It has come to our notice that some students and/or teachers are visiting x-rated sites. In the interest of the general community health, we are taking steps to block these sites. Your cooperation is greatly appreciated" would help.