IT Employment
I have working in the field for 3 years know got my a+ and net +. Decided to get my mcsa whenever I comehome from I just don't feel like picking up a book and reading it.
I prefer watching cbt's though. I was just thinking of taking classes for mcsa or go to a bootcamp, has anyone been in this situation before.
Make it a full MSCE while you're at it.
Alternate suggestion- consider a local college/ university offering accelerated MS Certified Training in compressed time.
If you don't certify, you may find yourself training certified unexperienced higher paid staff how to do things your not allowed to do.
This isn't a rant at new-to-the-industry enthusiasts getting certs to get work, It makes sense for these guys breaking in.
It's the nature of the industry that refuses to recognize it's own. Most corporate hiring staff don't care if applicant have experience although they may say they do, they just want a piece of paper, which is CYA if the guy screws up.
But for you: The MSCE will give you more job security and a better change of advancement.
Without out it you risk marginalization and the redundancy pink slip, regardless of your work's quality and productivity. -Not so in a small company usually.
If the company dies, you have a better chance of being hired, because as an MSCE you are "God" to HR.
by skywalker_al
by jaqui
Microsoft Certified Sales Executive.
sorry but ms certifications are meaningless.
specially as ms is out to kill themselves with the software as service model they are implementing.
by dafe2
That's NOT the way it works.
MCSA's & MCSE fill very diferent roles.
In addition, any 'boot camp' I've ever evaluated does nothing more than teach howo pass an exam.
"God" to HR.........................NOT.
Get the certs for your own learning experience & the rest will follow.
by dafe2
by skywalker_al
by dafe2
I value mine. I never they were'nt meaningless.
I said I agreed with Jaqui BASED on the context of the discussions prior to Jaqui.
As far as I'm concern Bootcamps produce, with rare exeptions, nothing but useless paper MCSE's - And that's a problem.
by dafe2
People learn in diferent ways.
If it were me (& it's not) I'd do the CBT's & the labs.
I'd read, read, read........
I wouldn't invest any money or time in any 'boot camp.
Actually I did the MCSA on my own & with a couple of like minded people. It took us two years but, it was worth it.
by rocky5689
I have to self fund the bootcamp if I decided to go that route as my employer may or maynot fund this. I was thinking of doing mcsa security and ccna , as not sure if mcse has any value left in it.
Its kind of tough decision as I need to advance in my career is to get certs either I can get them by going to the camp or doing self study.
by dafe2
THe MCSE is very specific to network design/architecture whereas the MCSA is taylored to those responsible for managing infrastructure.
So, if you see designing networks in your future...
Self study worked for me (I enjoy reading) BUT I have seen some good classes run by universities and even a few Technical schools. I'd suggest sitting in on a class to check it out though.
For the benefit of our friend entering our field:
The value of certification to impart some IT knowledge to a new IT person is minimal, except possibly the A+ which ironically didn't cost your firstborn to purchase. The MCSE cert process while valid of itself has degenerated to mostly a revenue stream for Microsoft.
Nonetheless the need for the new person without experience trying to crack the industry to have a MCSE is clear.
When I started the industry the question was "can you do the job?" and before I left it was "why don't you have this cert?"
I've spoken to associates across North America and some off-shored tech support in Bangalore, India and MCSE was what their companies wanted so my case is representative, not an anomaly.
I don't know how many good opportunities this guy is going to get now without a MCSE. Its the New World Order. You are fortunate if you have an employer only concerned with ability or your own busuness.
MCSE vs MCSA and different roles? Theoretically in the minds of microsoft marketers who want to sell more certs by offering an economy bundle- based on real industry facts naturally. Just ignore the fact that MCSE is the standard.
Certifications are a joke? Of course they're a joke? Your point being? The issue is getting this fellow a job which requires some expensive humour.
HR, Hiring Manager, whatever. In many and all medium to large places HR, CIO or other admin has oversight, meaning they do the first eliminations and judge the picks on paper. You find this a surprise?
We are talking about what is going to get this person hired.
As far as time and money and training this depends on what this persons objectives are:
To Pass the exam at minimal cost without trying to learn:
cram CBTs and exam simulators like Transcender Search "braindumps" on www -people have with reasonable error rewritten their exams and posted them. What you are doing here is short term memorizing of word patterns & associations. I used to call this 'cheating', but since the cert process is farce I have no problem.
Use the Camps or college if you want to try to learn something by working hands on with equipment with labs, and double check they do this. I also suggested the lab because it gets you out of your environment into a structured learning one.
by dafe2
The MCSE is specifically geared to Network Architects
The MCSA is geared towards someone who manages infrastructure
Microsoft marketing has nothing to do with it.
With regards to Boot Camps - They're nothing more than places who create the paper MCSE (IMO)
They are the facilities that cheapen the Certs.
I never said Certs were a joke. To the contrary, I respect anyone who continues to improve themselves in ANY chosen field.
The ONLY thing that matters to HR is that you can do the job......having CERTS just shows them that you have an interest in self improvement - That's ALL it should indicate.
If you've attained your MCS* and feel it has no value, then I submit you probably achieved it very easily (or) are the poster child for the paper MCS* crowd.
by rocky5689
by dafe2
They don't necessarily advance you as (some) like to point out.
They DO demonstrate initiative & drive.
If all things are equal I'll hire the person that shows an interest in their personal growth (ie certs)
Raising the issue of your earlier ad-hominem attack made with assumption without information; I'd say that this speaks to how your mind works and why you're in management not too close to the technology.
They don't necessarily advance you as (some) like to point out.
I and colleagues have seen that they do so you are wrong.
They DO demonstrate initiative & drive.
No they do not because you clearly do not understand what motivation and drive are. Additionally you may be confusing motivation with serfdom.
If all things are equal I'll hire the person that shows an interest in their personal growth (ie certs)
Most hiring people agree with you for all the wrong reasons. Which is why I recommended in my original and all proceeding posts to get the certs, just not deceive one's self about their other value.
Personal Growth? Which Pop Psychology book of the month did you get that out of? Or did you go to a motivational seminar? Ernest Aingley is more believable than that stuff.
by rocky5689
by skywalker_al
by rocky5689
Hi - I am looking to go to an MCSE bootcamp and I know that the quality is defined by who you go through. Which bootcamp do you recommend and why?
Your input will help with my decision. Thanks!
by dafe2
by skywalker_al
by dafe2
All things being equal - I take the MCS*.
But not for any reason (other) than getting the cert shows iniative & drive.
As you've no doubt gathered, I hold a very low opinion of 'bootcamps'.
I don't believe I'm discouraging this person (rather) I'm suggesting they be carefull.
If you read my posts carefully, I'm saying if your interested in a cert ----> Be interested ennough to see past the hype & learn the material for the right reasons.
by itjunkie
You have to take a number of things into consideration.
Pay attention to what you are being told about the job market you are going after with the MCSA. I work for a training and certification company. We help out with placement and from what I have seen here, if you are looking for marketability, get the MCSA Security Cert.
by rocky5689
Thats what I am looking to get MCSA security, I was going to MCSE security but decided to start with MCSA security then go from there . MCSE security is too long .
Does has anyone has any links for free study guides, practice exams for 270 exam.
by itjunkie
Check out test king and 2test.com
What kind of a background do you have in security and network administration?
by rocky5689
by itjunkie
by sutherlandk
by rocky5689
I looked at MS Press books they have good labs but thye are not really geared towards exam preparation. I like Sybex and Exam Cram books.
What kinds of labs are good for the exam.
by t3chiesp3cie
by rocky5689
by mrehere
I have 8 years experience, got my NT 4.0 MCSE in 1999. I went to Global Knowledge in December and got my MCSA in 8 days. I went back last week for the last 3 exams and now have my W2K3 MCSE.
I can absolutely recommend Global Knowledge. I even payed the tuition out of pocket. It was an investment in my career and worth every penny. However, the bootcamp is not for the newbie in my opinion. If you want to learn the material, boot camp is not for you. If you have the experience and want to suppliment your resume with the credential, then the boot camp can get you there.
Just my opinion. Results will vary.
Mr E
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