Children in the workplace

If your company has a child friendly policy, it should also provide child friendly PC's.

Fill up an old PII with some kids learning games and educational software, then the kids can actually learn something instead of playing with the network.

I used to go to work with my dad on weekends when I was little too, it was a great learning experience. He was a machinist and marine engineer though, so I was allowed to use CERTAIN machines (I could use a lathe by age 11) and play with CERTAIN stuff in the boat dry docks and it gave me goo dhands on skills early on. But he would always give me something to occupy myself while he was working. When I was really little, 6-10 say, I would be given things to measure with micrometers or things to clean up (very important shop skill to learn!) etc. WHen I was older, he'd give me little welding and machining projects that he could easily redo in minutes if needed but they'd keep me busy and taught me valuable skills while I was at it.

Hanging out and just playing around all day is not productive though.

...there was a kidsafe room like at Ikea and it was well utilized. I have been working on weekends and after hours (these time slots seem to attract a lot of kids to the office) and have came close to injuring a kid and almost losing data at my open terminal (which I have religiously locked from that time on). On one occasion I didn't see a kid come out of an office from the side when I was carrying a monitor and stumbled over him. The other time I came back to my desk to find that a kid had homed in on my laptop and was happily hammering away at my keyboard. Luckily for me I had nwadmin minimized.
It also comes down to the social maturity of parents and "their" supervision of "their" offspring. I don't know how many times I wanted to have a go at parents at shopping centres for the actions of their kids (It's not in any way the kids fault).

I don't think you can allow both to happen simultaneous. You can't enforce the policy if people are allowing their kids to login into the network with their login. Suppose you could make it clear that they are still responsible for what occurs through their login.

Configure up some old PCs, maybe even setup an old server and a seperate LAN.

...to allow children to play on the company computers, setup a generic roaming profile for kids that is SEVERELY locked down. Block all but a very few specific websites and block ALL downloads. Put a couple of kid game cd's on a server and put shortcuts to those games in the roaming profile.

Or setup a completely seperate kid-space with it's own network that is completely seperate from the rest of the work network.

But I think civilization is simply moving in a different direction. Businesses operate 24/7. The increasing portion of the population that is self-employed is already living this life. People in the consulting profession and many others have already made the choice to not have sharp dividing lines between work and real life.

I'm with you. At my age I remember the days when Pop came home from work every night at 5:30 and we sat around listening to the radio (we lived in Arizona) or playing canasta. But the Post-Industrial Era is not going to work that way. We have to be realists.

Take the kids to the park......WTF are you doing working on the weekends (LOL)

Been down that road, all your teaching the kids is that you (and later them) are expected to work at all times.

If you must, (as others have mentioned) setup a generic box and let them play on it.

Really though, it's great to have a kid friendly office ...................but only from 9 to 5 Monday through Friday.

Like I said I've down the live to work road. Today I choose to work to live.

If truly a "kid friendly" workplace, designate a computer for the kids - doesn't have to be new, or connected to the net. Put some educational games on for the kids to play and let them go. I assume these are kids under 12, or they would be able to stay home when mom/dad must go in on the weekend.
Better yet, connect and work from home on the weekend.

I have 4 Yes, 4 children (part of why I have to work on weekends)3 of them girls and one boy 13. Guess which one would rather play on the computer (duh). Anyway, when I do bring my youngest daughter in, she spends equal time drawing, playing with other kids, watching movies and on the computer and resting. I believe her lack of interest in computers and my other daughters for that matter have to do with their mother being a stay at home mom for the last 16 years. As for my son, why does he want to spend so much time playing video games, Probably because 1) his friends. 2)He has watched me at that computer for so many hours (working - I started hating online games shortly after spending weeks mastering DOOM)

Being a small office without much room, I like the idea of setup 1 or 2 machines on a Vlan with the locked down profile.

But before I start that project, I am out of here, I am going to get a baseball mit.

Thanks
Sam

You got it.........I especially liked:

"Sunlight stings your eyes" LOL

The answer is a hearty, "NO!"

I have been in the same situation as you. I didn't think it at
the time, when I had taken my daughter to work on the last
day of school back in June 2003 at my old job. She had
gotten into the internet and was browsing and play games
in various sites, however, the problem came when she
attempted to download a trial program (or something like
that) from an unknown site.

What happened later was that the system had gotten hit
with a ton of spyware and adware files, not to mention
some of them being viruses. Children should not be
allowed on company computers because when something
goes wrong, the company will hold the parent liable and be
made to fix the problem and/or pay for the cost of fixing
the problem.

Fortunately, I was able to straighten the problem out using
the antivirus protection program which deleted the majority
of the files that were detected as threats and viruses. I had
to take time out of my work schedule to manually delete
the rest. It's too time consuming to undo damages caused
by a child playing around on a computer. Something can
get accidently deleted, files can accidentally be deleted,
who knows. It's too much of a high risk for businesses to
have to take.

If a policy is currently in the process of being written with
regard to keeping children off of company computers, then
it is a policy worth writing, and employees should have no
problems with it. I think child-friendly businesses who
welcome parents bringing their children to work should
have such policies in place.

SIDE NOTE: At home my daughter has a computer in her
room. There's a front computer and there's a back
computer. I do not allow her to use the back computer
solely because I use that for business-related functions.
And I have a policy stating that fact.

The answer is a hearty, "NO!" However, your company
should not be totally against the idea of having at least two
computers set up somewhere where the kids can engage
themselves in fun educational programs that will keep them
busy.

I have been in the same situation as you. I didn't think it at
the time, when I had taken my daughter to work on the last
day of school back in June 2003 at my old job. She had
gotten into the internet and was browsing and play games
in various sites, however, the problem came when she
attempted to download a trial program (or something like
that) from an unknown site.

What happened later was that the system had gotten hit
with a ton of spyware and adware files, not to mention
some of them being viruses. Children should not be
allowed on company computers because when something
goes wrong, the company will hold the parent liable and be
made to fix the problem and/or pay for the cost of fixing
the problem.

Fortunately, I was able to straighten the problem out using
the antivirus protection program which deleted the majority
of the files that were detected as threats and viruses. I had
to take time out of my work schedule to manually delete
the rest. It's too time consuming to undo damages caused
by a child playing around on a computer. Something can
get accidently deleted, files can accidentally be deleted,
who knows. It's too much of a high risk for businesses to
have to take. And at that time, my boss was not agreeable
to setting up the old spare computer with educationa
games feeling this was not that much of a child-friendly
envrionment, and that it was a place of business to "get the
work done" as she put it.

If a policy is currently in the process of being written with
regard to keeping children off of company computers, then
it is a policy worth writing, and employees should have no
problems with it. I think child-friendly businesses who
welcome parents bringing their children to work should
have such policies in place.

SIDE NOTE: At home my daughter has a computer in her
room. There's a front computer and there's a back
computer. I do not allow her to use the back computer
solely because I use that for business-related functions.
And I have a policy stating that fact. Her computer is
equipped with all of her games so is the front computer.

If you are an IT Manager, you have to set the course. By not allowing your children on the pc's, you are the role-model for you policy to follow. What are you going to do when someone else's child inadvertantly deletes an important file? You can't point the finger at anyone, if you, the IT Manager has his children on the company pc's as well.

By doing this, you are protecting yourself.

With all the other replies, I would also support a >>stand-alone<< pc, not connected to the network, that you can put kids games on, etc.. An older, sunsetted, recycled, non-business system that can be put to good use and you don't care if it gets destroyed.

I would NOT hook it up to the network unless it was locked down so tight that only certain internet sites were available (Noggin, Disney, etc.) and even then, I'd be cautious.

Best bet is to provide some alternate form of entertainment. And regardless of what you do, never leave them unsupervised.

. . . and it would amuse my eight-year-old to have a go with my
chainsaw.

My friend is a physician and wonders if he should let his kids
have the run of the pharmacy cabinet . . .

My brother's a trucker, and hell it allows him to have a bit of
sleep when his toddler takes the wheel . . .

You need to determine what is the appropriate policy in regards to network logons, passwords, and third party use of a logon.

For example, our policy is logons are issued to the individual. Passwords cannot be given to anyone else. Third party users may only use network resources under strict supervision. Abuse of a logon is the responsibility of the person to whom it has been issued - and they wear the consequences if it's been shared.

Your company has to determine what is the level of information and IT security required. Most security analysts believe the greatest danger to information security is posed by authorised users, not by external parties.

I rather have children as users. Not as thick as a lot of grown-up users.

Treat them like adults.

Give them their own log on details and tell them the don'ts. Don't download. Don't install. And use Mozilla.

Most of the times they will listen.

Statistics show that about 64% of spy ware/mal ware/virus/worms etc..come from children websites. it could be the new "pok-e-mon" online trading website or online game that brings it in.

personally, i would take an old computer (which already restricts how elaborate of a game the kid can play) and set it up outside your network letting the child play whatever they want. create an unattended cd that you can just pop in once a month or so that way it doesn't get filled up with too much crud too often.

this would be my suggestion.

I used to have to do the odd weekend and regularaly took my children with me, maybe there just good kids, but I didn't let them roam free.
Give them as much freedom as is safe but rememer they are children and aren't expected to understand health and safty at work.
Surely you could create a user account with a strongly locked down profile, controlled Internet access.

We support plenty of small businesses that are "kid friendly" where parents have the kids in at work for the last couple of hours of every day - cheaper than day care and the business gets to keep skilled employees. It is a win - win situation EXCEPT when it comes to computing. Most have learned (to their cost) that they also need to provide sandboxed computers for the kids and they need Interent access for homework and IM'ing their friends - or parents soon hear about it and don't get any work done! We are happy to assist. :-)

For the home worker - it becomes quickly apparent that the family computer must EITHER become the worker's computer exclusively or they get a second one for themselves.

Young kids cannot discriminate and older kids take part in riskier computing behaviour - especially when it is not their own computer they are screwing up.

Children might be accomidated using a restricted visitor log on, Microsoft does have a problem of not being able to implement passwords at the catalog file level with in the file management system. I am not talking about password built into applications.

The problem of telecommuting from away from the office creats more problems and an organization. Users in that catageory have to have positive controll of access to their computer when working from home.

I used to head a Computer Science Explorer Post and we would bring in our Explorers in for tours of our Force Control WWMCCCS vault but no terminal access, but we would demo of it on a development main frame.

Our Visitor age policy was the same as the SAC Command Post no children under age 12 on the computer floor or terminal areas.

The age 12 up is still a good policy for most environments. Children at that age have a better degree of accountability.

Considering that you and other staff (including principals)already do bring children in and allow it, precedent has been set. It's not all bad.

1. establish a children's user account, block all server access except for one common area with privileges to save only there. allow access to some games, standard software, and the internet. log all activity for the account
2. your internet access should have pornography blocked as it is
3. prepare a contract between the parent and the company relieving the company of liability should the child see material inappropriate, accepting the parent's responsibility for damages to equipment (normally keyboards, etc.) and for maintaining complete network security from the child.
4. prepare a contract between the child and the company emphasizing that if the attached rules are broken, the child will not be allowed computer use (or even on the premises, if needed)

Better get your legal department's opinion. A child visiting workplace visits a porn site, reads an off-color joke, exposes another child to inappropriate material (Are they segregated by age? How extensive is the adult supervision?), violates illegal downloading restrictions, goes to a chat room and hooks up with a predator... the liability possibilities are endless.

Yes, it's OK for kids to visit the workplace occasionally (though the company must accept a ding on productivity) but unless the company is willing to accept the expense of maintaining an offline network, a protected network, standalones configured for children (and answering for the thousandth time, "How come I can't get to the Internet?) then, NO.

To accomodate the no group and the yes group....all you need to do is set a corner that's for visitors!

This way, when the kids visit - there are 2-3 PCS (available in a carousel in a small library area with books, games and headphones that employees can let their kids use without getting on the working computers or potentially disrupting things on your network.

All they need is internet access and music and some learning tools or something - why inihibit their curiosity? Further, why squelch kids interest in what their parents do? For far too long we have isolate kids from the workplace and therefore they have no idea of what work is like and flounder in school and when they older trying to "visualize" what they themselves might like to do as productive members of society.

One added bonus - by setting up an access corner, you create a positive acceptance AND help keep those who don't want kids on the computers protected from theirs being "played on". A second bonus - by making that access corner, if you ever have other visitors, customers or whatnot that need to "hop on" a computer to check email or get on the web, you already have it in place !! They can use the resource corner as well (phone, web, email, etc...) !!

The solution to the children in the workplace is very easy as long as there is a bigger picture and a larger context for it than just can the kids bang on the work PCS or not.

In most offices, each person has a computer at their desk. If you only have one PC, (yes, I know some have more than 1)who's computer is your kid using? Are you letting them sit at your co-workers' desks?

Yeah, my favorite thing in the whole world is to come to work on Monday morning -- my keyboard all sticky with some unknown goo, grubby fingerprints on my monitor, and items from my desk strewn about.

The workplace is not for children. How can you actually get work done AND supervise your child properly? One or the other suffers. It is not fair to your child or to your employer.

However, if the child is older (early teens), that can be a different story. Why not buy them a cheapo laptop so they can bring that to the office. This way they are familiar with it, and can play games etc. Better yet, why not actually have them STUDY for school. Even if they don't have homework, I'm sure there is something they can improve on.

I like another person's answer to let the child do some actual work...clean up etc. But this puts the company in an awkward position. If the child gets hurt while they are "helping" who pays? Hmmmm child labor laws??? Lawsuits are a sad but true fact in our current "legalistic" society.

I could go on and on...but I should stop here....
=^..^=

I bring my daughter in four days a week (only for about 30 minutes until Mom can pick her up). I put a child gate up on the entrance to my cube so she doesn't roam freely and from time to time she likes to play games on one of the computers in my office or watch DVDs while she's here.

I have the advantage of haveing several machines in my office and I regularly capture images of each, so if one gets screwed up I can re-image it and not really lose anything.

I realize that I have a pretty good setup as far as being "kid-friendly" but it was the company that has allowed me to do this.

I'll echo a couple of sentiments...

Unless you can offer expendable boxes that are off-
line, don't even think about this. And whatever you do,
don't offer a child a computer that work of the business
is actually performed on.

The legal problems are capable of completely wiping
out the company and possibly whole careers.
(including yours)

If a child accesses the worst aspects of the internet/
chat - You're in trouble, and possibly the child's life is at
risk.

If a child accesses files related to clients and throws
them away, corrupts or in any way disrupts the
commerce within the organization... do I need say
more?

If a child accesses sensitive personal information about
any employee... again, someone's gonna be sued.

The only viable solution would be computers that are
totally expendable that have no access to the outside
world.

Standard user level accounts would be prudent, with
appropriate age/grade level educational games/
software installed.

Be sure to follow standards for software installation.

Create a computer usage policy for these computers
and be sure to have the parents read & sign it! For
those children say age 12 and above, get them to sign
an additional "child's portion" usage policy.

This will help instill a sense of responsibility and
accountability.

Good luck... you ARE gonna' need it... along with
asbestos underwear, kevlar body armor and REALLY
good attorney.

I was a working mom for many years, as well as a supervisor of working parents, and I think it's great when employers are sensitive to the needs of their employees. But "kid friendly environment" can mean many things - from having an established day care on site, all the way to what basically amounts to having kids unsupervised and underfoot at any given time because there is no structured accommodations for kids or general guidelines for parent-employees.

Bringing the kids to work should not REPLACE day care; it's not good for the kids, the parent, co-workers or productivity! In one job I held, my supervisor's 6-year old snuck up behind me and nearly cut off my hair before I caught him. He also cut the phone line in our office and on many occasions I would come in to find my desk and my work-in-progress in complete disarray.

A truly kid-friendly environment will have some sort of structured accommodations that will give parenting employees some flexibility, provide the kids some sort of interesting diversions, and will respect the needs of other employees to conduct their work undisturbed. With that overall policy in place, it's a relatively simple process to set other specific policies such as computer use.

In my experience, kids should never be allowed to use company computers that are in use for company work.

First, you have to define kids and playing. There's a difference between a 10yr old and a 16yr old hacker-cracker.
Second, if you're system is as secure as it should be, nothing a child could do should be able to cause any more damage than any other user. It's not like adults just use the computer for work, they're playing games, downloading, etc. in many places.
Third, the policy is tough to enforce. Most people don't bring their kids to work during normal hours. It's those sometimes needed trips in the evening or weekends, maybe on short notice where there is no babysitter available and when there may not be anyone there to notice anyway.
If your security policy only covers "responsible users", then you don't have one...

Flat out I don't like the idea of kids in the workplace on a daily basis, week in and week out. First why would you WANT to - as a parent? I mean I know we all love our kids (though I'm not a parent yet -- I've been an uncle since 12 years old and am very close to most (but not all) of my nieces and nephews), wouldn't it drive you crazy to be around your child all the time particularly when you are trying to be professional and get work done at the office?

If its purely a matter of you have zero options in regards to nobody can watch your child and you can't afford a sitter or whatever that's different (though I'd really try hard to find a solution even then -- ask your parents, a close aunt or uncle etc.).

Secondly, don't "kid" yourselves this isn't really fun if you are a child to hange out with your mom or pop at work.

Even if you give them stuff to do that'll only last for so long. Kids are kids they WANT to play video games, they WANT to run around and play in the parks, playgrounds, etc. That's what being a kid is about.

I'm not saying the educational games aren't a good idea, my thing is -- yeah..but not every day, all day. Wanting our kids to be the best they can be and pretty much not be stupid kids without feelings or ethics -- that's good stuff and every parent should aim for that with their child..BUT...don't be a tight wad with your kids either, if all they are allowed / told to do all the time is "No you must always do something with a life lesson in it or that brings educational development to you"...you know what that kid things (or eventually will) "Damn my life sucks, its so boring.".

I couldn't help but notice what strong emotional responses this has elicited. Personally, I don?t think having children at work is conducive to a productive work environment. However, apparently your workplace has an open environment that encourages family to enjoy this part of your life.

If that is the case, then I recommend that computers be setup in open-area pods where adults can monitor the children?s activities. Put the computers on dial-up or broadband connections outside the company network to eliminate the accidental or intentional misconduct.

You make an excellent point and I totally agree with you but I have a question concerning a portion of your post.
You mentioned policies regulating employee's legal behavior outside of work: prohibitions against smoking, anti-obesity policies, etc. Do you have any real world examples of these policies? These policies seem for the most part blatantly illegal. Granted smoking and obesity are health risks, no one will argue that point, but I've never heard of any company policies that prohibit you from being a smoker or overweight/fat/obese. We've all heard of or experienced no smoking at the workplace or on company property which is fine (walk across the street on lunch & coffee breaks) but for a company to tell someone that they're not allowed to smoke at all even when that employee has left the workplace and gone home or somewhere else after work seems ludicrous - if something like this existed, more media attention would have definitely been created on this issue. And the obesity issue, some people are genetically pre-disposed to carrying more weight regardless of what they do, diet, exercise. Obese people (mildly chubby to dangerously obese) probably make up the largest portion of the population in North America, I find it hard to believe that any company would have anti-obesity policies, discrimination against someone who is obese would clearly be against the law. If you have links to news sites documenting these types of human rights violations, please reply and post them, I'd definitely like to read up on it.
thx....rob,wpg

Sorry . . . when you are at the office you work - when you are at home you play.

Children learn by example. If they are allowed to "play" while mom or dad are working, what kind of message are you sending to the next generation?

That being said, your company also going to have to deal with the ramifications of their playing. Experience as a parent has taught me children lack the maturity associated with making wise decisions and have a tendancy to think that whatever they can do at home can be done at mom or dad's work. Office systems will quickly be consumed with spyware, adware & related problems. Case in point: Last year one of our attorneys had his son "work" during the summer. The next thing I knew he was on the PC of his dad's secretary and had installed several music peer-to-peer software packages. What a nightmare to clean up!

Making sure your network is resilient enough to withstand children will make it strong enough to survive regular users with fewer help desk calls.

I have run widely varied networks and consulted on even more. The best ones, with the fewest headaches for support staff, were the ones that were configured so well that kids could be left unattended at the computer.

In all of the kid and/or pet friendly places that I've seen, the kids and pets are as well behaved as the employees. I think everyone is trying to think of bringing their children into the existing environment at their workplace, which in most cases is NOT kid/pet friendly.
We don't have a policy here about bringing in children, but I have my kids around for a few hours each week while my wife goes to yoga or some other activity. They like to see me work on the network stuff and they get to hear me on the phone dealing with all kinds of day to day stuff. This kind of education doesn't happen until you're out of college and perhaps an intern somewhere.
We have to bring our kids into the modern life! As others have said, the industrial model of workers coming in, working, and going home, is bursting at the seams (for better or worse).
All of the old professions (miller, blacksmith, farmer, tinkerer) used to educate their kids (sons, of course, but we're past that) by having them around all the time! They learned math, language skills, history, writing, all by doing the family work.
Bring your kids to work and set them up with drawing projects or basketball or even computers with software. Show them what you're doing, and if they're interseted it's a great education for them. You don't have to teach them how to subnet a class B IP space, just tell them you want some computers to talk to each other and not others.
I have never had any regrets working for kid friendly places nor having my kids come to work with me.

Surely your children have friends their own age, who more than likely have parents of their own. Trade babysitting weekends, you work they watch, then switch it up one night (not even necessarily a weekend).

Kids should be playing with other kids, the obvious social and psychological benefits of having peers and friends.

Besides, to have a child sit on their toosh for 8 hours playing on a computer, or watching TV is hardly conductive to their health. This has been mentioned, go let them play sports or something a bit more active than click click clacking on a keyboard or remote.

I don't have kids so I don't know "what it's like" but I do run a network and I would not, not ever, let any kids onto my network. They can come to the office all they want but they will not touch any PC's on the network. That is just asking for trouble. We admins spend enough time protecting the network from grown adults and the dumb things they can do. Just imagine what a child could do, albeit innocently, but no less dangerous. I like the idea of seperate, non-connected, computers for the kids. That would be fine but absolutely no access to any company devices.

As for the side topic of working so much these days...I try my best to leave when I am supposed to but there are times when you just can't and yoou need to stay to finish something off. That is fine. When it comes to coming in on weekends or after hours, it will need to be an emergency otherwise it ain't happening and my employer knows it. She has called me at home with a question or problem in the past but has never asked me to come in to fix it. Like I said, if it is an emergency and the server has crashed or something then I will come in, and get paid I might add, and fix the problem.

I have only worked 2 weekends in almost three years and that was due to the fact that I rolled out a new server to replace our old one and needed to do it after hours.

Just my 2 cents.

Would you want kids on computers that contain your information at your bank? Would you let your kid play with your car? How about a chain saw? It is time for children to know their place. Let them read a book, do their home work, bring a toy.
NO!