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E-MAIL delusions WITHIN THE ORGANISATION.

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I live in a world where I have to filter through 100s of e-mails a day. Seeing that the firm I work for uses e-mail as the de facto communication tool, it would?ve been nice if a good e-mail culture was in place. After all, it is a human on the other end of your mail message, so show some respect. So I?ve listed, in no particular order, the top most e-mail misuses I have come across. Maybe you can add some more here or use it to decrease such misuse in your organisation and establish a good, friendly and sound e-mail culture.

1. Replying to mail sent in an e-mail distribution list. Quite a common mistake one makes is to simply reply to mail sent in distribution lists. Not all replies are intended for all members of the list and it, in most cases, becomes ?spam? mail as reply messages are being bounced around using the same original recipient list. The question you should ask yourself before replying to the mail without editing the recipient list is:
a.Is your reply intended for the whole distribution list? If not make sure you change the recipient list accordingly. You will in most cases irritate other listed members.

2.Receipts and delivery reports to large distribution list. Receipts are good for tracking e-mail responses but ineffective when you don?t need to. The questions you should ask before enabling receipts to a message originally sent via a large distribution list are:
a.Do you care if the recipients read this message? If not receipts are unnecessary and adds overhead to mail systems.
b.Do you really want to receive a large volume of receipts in your already clogged up e-mail inbox?

3.Receipts as a default setting. One can set up your e-mail client in such a way that it requests a delivery report or read receipt on every e-mail you generate. But is it really necessary, is it effective and is it acceptable to your e-mail audience in all instances? Before making receipts a default setting on your e-mail client program you should consider the following:
a. Do you care if the recipients always read all of your messages, including carbon copied (cc) e-mails?
b.Do you need to keep track of every single e-mail you sent? What is the REAL reason for doing so and are there no better alternatives?

4.The use of Carbon copy (cc). If I had any say in e-mail program development I would remove the cc feature. It is probably the topmost misused feature in any organisation and it means that a single e-mail message is unnecessarily sent one too many times. The questions you should ask before entering someone?s e-mail address in the cc field:
a. Is the mail urgent for the cc?ed recipients in other words are it important for you if they will read or respond to a cc?ed mail.
b. Are you using it only to show your boss that you have done a task he/she has asked for?
The chances are very good that the recipient (including your boss) has already set up his/her e-mail inbox to filter cc?ed mail, either to the trash bin or to a special unimportant mail folder.

5. Forwarding mails from an external or internal source without adding value to the original e-mail. In real life, if you discovered something useful you would go up to a person and maybe say? Hey John, look what I?ve found, it could be helpful with that important proposal you?re doing? ?. So why do you appoint yourself to act as a mail relay? The person you directly forward an e-mail without providing some explanation or input, either might not understand why you forward him/her the e-mail or might or might not like it. If you want to be helpful, be helpful in a better way.

6.Writing in capital or bolding all words and sentences. Shouting is sometimes necessary, but via an e-mail message? Really?

7.Asking someone in the corridor or over the phone if he/she got your e-mail. My standard reply to someone asking such a question is ?No, have not seen it?. Why use e-mail then in the first place? It takes longer to compile an e-mail message than talking to a person. The flipside is, did you ask for a response or action in your e-mail message and did you ask the timeframe?

8.Blind carbon copy (Bcc) and e-mail. The appropriate terms for this feature are ?RUDE and inappropriate?. The fact that you post an e-mail to one person and without this person?s knowledge mail another exact copy to another person, is unacceptable, and in most cases unethical. It would be more acceptable to send someone an e-mail and then send a copy of this e-mail to the person you wanted to send it to in BCC format WITH a comment or reason doing so e.g. Starting off with e.g. ?Hi Greg, I?ve sent this e-mail to John and thought you should read it as well etc. etc.?

9. Longwinded e-mails, longwinded reply upon reply, upon reply. Using e-mail for a discussion or ?chatting? becomes quite ineffective after a while. You?ve seen them, that reply on reply on reply. It becomes even more confusing if there are multiple versions of the message, all with their own string of replies. The question you should ask after the 3d or fourth reply to your original message is: Can this discussion not be done over a phone or conference call or in a meeting? Remember you spend 5, 10 even 20 minutes preparing your reply, the other person feeling committed to reply does the same, and so on. A ? hour meeting might?ve shortened the discussion.

10.Headers, footers and greetings? Too lazy to add them? For example do you really mean ?With regards? at the end of your mail message? Start of by having a look at your mail content. Did you start your e-mail with a proper greeting e.g. e.g. Dear John, Hi John, etc. Another fact is the person might or might not have time to write you a reply so did you at least provide alternative contact details? Good practice and corporate branding is to start standardising e-mail formats for greetings, content, footers details and disclaimers.

As a last statement, e-mail (when used as a tool not a process) should be by no means the measure of how much work you do in a day e.g ?Hey, I get 99 mails a day! ?. Taking that you will read about 2/3rds of it, at an average of 2 minutes each and reply to about 1/3rd of it that takes about 10 minutes on average you will spend 132 minutes (2 hours and 12 minutes) reading and 330 minutes (5 ? hours) replying? Day gone, think about it...

73 replies

by jaqui

11)
a) top posting when replying
if the recipient only skimmed ( list messages ) then your email makes no sense to them.
reply after original message or break the quoted text and insert your reply, right after the section replying to.

b) not trimming when replying.
look at most signatures, they get added on after you hit send, so if the message has been sent 4 times there are 4 signatures added that aren't needed, delete them.

12) fancy formatting
it isn't needed, those pretty colours, scripted fonts etc are just overhead in the system that is a complete waste.

13) sending attached files.
DON'T
unless it is in response to a request for a specific file never send attached files.
then, make sure it is in plain text, xml, pdf.
fancy formatting in the pdf, if it's a letter, then plain text only.

I've irritated several family members, with bounced emails from html formatting, or even multipart-alternative.
if it is accepted that an email is a letter, then why are you wasting time with fancy colours / sounds / images that would not be in a letter you snail-mailed?

by jacci54

I work in an industry where emails and their replies have to be kept for 7 years as original documents. Much tidier if one only keeps the whole string as one doc.

by cedrics

I know it has some security issues and no one really knows how long they retain the originals, but the thread function in Gmail is probably my favorite and I would love it if the *big* email programs would use this method of organization. Outlook would be so much more efficient if you could thread.

My office is small, less than 45 people, and between the help desk and Ops team is a flood of daily mail pertaining to issues that the hotline cannot resolve without Ops intervention. Ops is in a 'clean' server room for security reasons ( we process and tech all aspects of our states lottery/powerball, so access to my room is limited) and being able to sort through back and forth email would greatly aid in resolving problems and getting information back to retailers that call in looking for a lottery ticket barcode to verify a winning ticket if the ticket is printed badly, or is damaged by the holder.

*plink*

by firstpeter

1 - 3: Absolutely.

4: Perhaps the most misused, but also a very effective tool if used correctly. It lets people to whom the e-mail was not directed know what's going on, but it gives them the clue that they probably don't need to read the whole e-mail until they have time or have a question. And I'd have to argue that only poor managers have a rule setup to automatically send CCd mail to a trash bin - that's a horrible way to handle e-mail.

5. Agreed, provided the subject line doesn't say it already. If the subject says "New Dell for $300" and I know someone is looking for a new computer I absolutely forward it on as-is unless I have something else to say. If it's not as obvious ("Great Deal!") then I'll add something.

6. Pet peeve, BIG time.

7. Sure.

8. Totally disagree. At the very least I will BCC my other e-mail addresses if there's a mail I want to ensure multiple copies of. I'm not sure I see where it would be unethical to send a copy to someone's manager, for instance. I would argue that it's no different than forwarding an e-mail on to them afterwards - they still got the e-mail and the To: e-mail isn't aware of it. Is it unethical for me to copy a business partner on an e-mail to a client? Not at all - and it saves me having to re-send an e-mail at the very least. If the BCC'd recipient doesn't understand the e-mail or know why he/she got it then the problem is why I'm sending it to them, not whether they're BCC'd or not.

The Rest: Agreed.

11: Not using at least SOME semblance of grammar in an e-mail (like, say, paragraphs, or periods, etc.). It doesn't have to be prose, but let's not go 4th-grade here.

I absolutely agree with your last point - I would hope that folks don't use e-mail as a measure of how much was accomplished. I'm finding these days that I'm getting more done with half the e-mail because I use other means of communication more, instead. And anyone that uses meetings or e-mails or calls or any other "metric" (and I use that term VERY loosely for any of those above items) needs to take a serious look at why and realize they're not getting what they should out of their business.

by senior program analyst

Especially about the BCC'd. Its not business related, but the other point of a BCC which I heavily use in the Internet world is so when sending to several people Im not sending a "email list" of names to each person. If the people Im sending to don't particularly know each other then I don't give thier addresses to each other. Besides that way If you are sending to a large group of people you dont get that huge header.

by ronadamus

This is about the only thing I use BCC for. I have skimmed peoples addresses off of the "To:" and "Cc:" boxes myself, but that doesn't mean that I want everyone on my mailing list to know everyone else on it. It is actually a safety issue, as well as privacy.

I do see where it can be abused, but no more so than forwarding or resending a message "behind someones back.

CC can also be effective for letting someone know that my manager and their manager are aware of my email request. This can be effective for prodding procrastinators (and I admit to being one myself) who seem to never quite get around to handling your request. I usually reserve this for second requests, and it usually get a fast response.

by vltiii

This is an excellent use of Bcc, especially in this world of email address harvesting, etc. The original poster mentioned sending a separate email... isn't the end result the same as using Bcc. Sending a separate email just makes it take longer to do so.

by nytefytr

I receive a lot of email just like everybody else in my organization, but most of it is automatically generated, mainly because I am added to a number of support group distro lists because the organization requires it. An email protocol is necessary, I agree, but it must fit the needs of the organization. Using your email client efficiently should be an integral part of that protocol.

Appropriate use of email filter rules helps a lot, but I think that it should go one step further. Filter rules should be set up in advance, for those that wish to use them. It's easy enough to set up a list of filters, where everyone with access can get to them. It saves the recipient from having to generate them themselves, leaving only the generation of filters that are specific to your needs.

by kinrowan9

I agree wholeheartedly with some of the statements PV has made here, but disagree completely with some others.

#2 & 3 are good points, for example? If you need to be sure that someone sees something, receipts are not the way to do it, especially considering that some email programs (MS Outlook, for example) will automatically send a read receipt if the message is displayed in the preview window, which doesn't mean the recipient read the email. Also, many email clients (for example, Outlook and Thunderbird) allow you to decline to send the recipt, which I do as a matter of course.

#6 & 7 are also good words to live (and email) by.

I must disagree with #4 and 8, however. CC is a very useful tool, but mostly specifically when you *don't* want the CC'd individuals to take any action, only to be aware of the interaction. I use it often, for example, when working with vendors on a support issue - I'll email subsequent transactions directly to the single worker working on my case and CC their support email so that other support techs know what's been happening and have a history - especiallyhelps when a vendor doesn't have some sort of integrated case management system. Also, I think it is often appropriate to keep your boss in the loop on tasks that you're working on and in fact have been requested to do so in some cases. #8 is useful in a some similar situations; again for example when working on technical details of a solution directly with a vendor or customer, I'll often BCc the person responsible for that overall relationship - s/he doesn't care about the details but needs to know that communication has been taking place, but there's no reason for the main recipient to be aware of that. That's not even to mention that in some email apps, BCC-ing a list of people is the only way not to disclose the other email addresses to the whole list.
As with most of the items on this list; moderation and clear thinking are required, but these tools are by no means useless or inappropriate or unethical, only people's *use* of them.

by zczc23119

As an IT consultant I find your views limited in scope to one particular Mail System and I will limit my reply to this.

Item 3. In most cases I would agree with you, however, for tracking purposes and security I make sure that my clients who do need additional email security have at least x 5.09 certificates to an SSL is place and therefore the request of an S/IME receipt is quite valid, especially as this request is auto generated by the recipients server upon receipt and not the person. In the case of a Law Firm or Accounting Practice of Federal Department SSL certificates are mandatory in my summation if the clients needs.

Item 8. In dealing with HR, or high level Management the ability to BCC addresses IS imperative. Take the case where a middle Manager sends an Email to either HR, or the HR manager needs to notify Board Members whilst protecting the identity of the middle manager, here is a Good use of a reverse BCC. Here we find the HR person forwards the Original Email with their appropriate comments to only BCC receipt. In this way the Board only sees the originator as the HR staff and NOT the middle manager which is HR?s discretion.

Take the same example and use it in a home, I received a really funny email from my one of my friends, in order to forward the funny email to MY friends and stop ALL my friends seeing the distribution list I use; I forward BCC the email. This protects ME and as all my friends get a copy, protects MY friends list from knowing about each other. After all I don?t want a lot of people seeing addresses of other people I know just because I don?t have the common sense to use BCC.

Taken outside the constraints of one mail system, and it is always possible to see the complete routing and history of your email you have sent, NO Ifs Buts or maybes, nor certificates nor nothing ?Take a look at GroupWise and its History of Email ability and you can see that recipients and senders are made responsible for their activities rightfully made or wrongfully made

by uca

I have to disagree with most of what you say:
1. If a message is sent to a list of people it means that everybody in that list has an interest in the matter so they should be informed of what the others have to say (write). It is the originator's fault if he included people that have nothing to do with the topic.
2. Of course I care if my recipients read my messages. Why would I send them in the first place !?
3 - maybe you are right here
4a. Cc is useful because it divides your recipients into those who need to do something about what you are saying and those who only need to be informed about the matter.
4b. Cc to your boss often adds weight to your content.
5. If you receive info that you know someone else needs and can use, what is there to add ?! How about those "No comment" pieces of news ? Are you against them too ?
6. Some phrases in a message are more important than others. If they are crucial, why risk to be overlooked by the readers ?
7. No, I don't ask if they got my e-mail: to avoind annoyance from people like you. I TELL them that I sent an e-mail and that I need an answer in a given time.
8. - I agree: If you send a written message you should have the guts to put everyone in To or Cc
9. Reply upon reply upon reply is useful when you need to trace back everything that has beed communicated on a subject - often some months back. If you spend 10-20 min to compose your reply means that you give the matter some thought, and you know that everybody will get the message when they have the time to read it. Meetings are not an option for people working in different locations or for issues that take more than 1 day to solve.

It looks to me that you are rather maintaining e-mail systems rather than use e-mail as a work tool and you would like these systems to be used as little and gently as possible to avoid problems. Sorry, this won'happen. We need e-mail to convey complex written messages to all the people envolved in a process!

by fractalzoom

I have to also disagree with the original rant that started this thread. It sounds like it was written from the perspective of an IT geek who views the world exclusively from that IT perspective. The truth is that IT and email are both subservient to the Business, and the very email features that cause our author so much pain are very useful as business tools. As an IT manager -- who has also administered email servers -- I find features such as CC, BCC and Read notifications to be essential components of business communications.

Once again, portions of the readership at Tech Republic seem to lose sight of the fact that IT exists to service Business, not the other way around. I see much more venting here than I do real conversations about operating technology in a business setting.

My $.02,
-Michael

by proud member of vast right wing majority

As an IT Manager, I agree with you, IT serves the Business, not the other way around. If any of us doesn't understand this simple concept,we had best look for other employment.

Concerning email manners - I agree with some of what was said in this thread, but can think of instances where each one of the original post's rules could have an exception.

Certainly, we should all be reminded to use logic and perspective when sending all emails - (how many otherwise good people have been fired or forced to resign over an inadvertant email?)

by rembrandt1

It's good to see a useful guide to e-mail conventions. A couple of things I'd like to add:
1. Send e-mails that expect something doing to only one person, this helps to prevent denial of responsibility problems. CC every one else that needs to know about the matter.
2. BCC is very useful for clubs and societies and other round-robins where recipients may not wish their address to be revealed to all and sundry.
3. If you can talk to someone, do it. Don't send an e-mail. There's enough isolationism in the white collar workplace already.

by marty the borg

I use BCC when I send e-mails to a large group, and don't want to "broadcast" the e-mail addresses of every addressee _to_ every other addressee.

by jfowler

I agree completely, the BCC predates e-mail by a considerable length of time and has many legitimate uses.
The problem isn't with these options being available electronically, but rather with some users possible inappropriate use of them.
Please don't punish the majority because of your personal prejudices.

by yellow81

BCC is useful when you have people that use a private and a public email address. Several executives like to use a public address that is posted througout the company for general use. This email is usually reviewed and sorted by the exec's secretary. Whereas the private address is used for more sensitive business information. Without BCC, we'd never be able to get away with using a private address.

by penguinvitamins2

If I may highlight, the topic is about e-mail etiquette (what is acceptable in your organisation) and if used wrongly how it affects other workers. Each organisation has its own way of doing things and there is a lot of uniqueness in each organisation. Mail has a lot of excellent features and ways to apply them but in quite a number of occasions users tend to use them for the wrong reasons.

I guess, as with all IT systems and the use thereof, good education is the key in every organisation. It also helps to have some sort of highlevel governance body in place so that you at least have the top down backup support for putting usage guidelines or policies in place.

PS For UCA, I?m no mail administrator, but I can tell you this, I need mail, I run a good portion of my business off it. :-)

Greetings

by zczc23119

My previous comments with respect to your current problem you face with you Company consult for; The need to educate users on e-mail etiquette, wound be better served if they used GroupWise, especially if they have over 500 users and are in an enterprise Network Structure, the TCO of such a move will pay for itself within 1 software version upgrade, prove far more user friendly and offer the administrator far more powerful tools, curtail the need to teach etiquette, as a more sophisticated Enterprise mail system does not require you to teach etiquette; moreover it comes as etiquette built in smarts.

by the admiral

I think you have made some good points, on others that you deem unethical, I think you are not thinking through both sides of the coin.

You state: "Blind carbon copy (Bcc) and e-mail. The appropriate terms for this feature are ?RUDE and inappropriate?." Well, unfortunately I have to disagree with you that this is rude and inappropriate, I further disagree that this is unethical. When you are dealing with Human Resource issues such as hiring, firing, discrimination, and other cases, you have to have a way to archive responses and be able to prove to HR that you did everything in your power that was within your power do make the situation correct. When you send out a note or a letter to an employee that is acting irrationally, especially in a case where you are attempting to settle a claim, you are required in some instances by law to ensure that the appropriate authorities are copied.

Outside of the rant pertaining all of the other points that you make, how much of it is employee education versus thinking that professional emails should follow the same circumstance of their personal account? While I understand that many of the emails that they get are their own doing, the only way that they are going to learn to utilize their time is to design processes around their particular requirements; such as notes that have more than three responses is an instant meeting.

If they do not or have the inability to manage their email and their professional lives, I am sorry, the tech support department should consider that out of scope, and point them to a professional training session.

by penguinvitamins2

And I agree, off course BCC has its place. e.g. HR confidentiality.

But because it is there it will be used, and not always as it was intended for. You and I have to live with the fact that every single individual in the office has an agenda (good, bad ,big or small). Pity e-mail is sometimes used for scoring browny points in such a manner.

One other fact I did not mention is how easy it is to use your corporate e-mail address in registering for anything. Easy target for adding to the daily corporate junk mail quota.

Thanks for the input/comments :>

Stefan

by too old for it

If I don't send e-mail to a 3 or 4 person list of CC's, (a) many people in departments scattered around the couintry aren't up to date,and (b) my boss thinks I'm sitting here doing nothing all day.

by dherde

If your 'organisation' happens to be a bunch of good folk who are loosely spread over the area (city, state, country, etc.) and the internet and personal email accounts are used for this communication, (spelled 'Distribution lists'), It is very appropriate to use the Bcc function as it may not be in your best interest to spread everyones email address out to unsecured (non existant or inadequate virus protection) desktops. I love it when I see a social or community organizer, a friend to be sure, email my home email address to 81 other people that I don't know or love or maybe do know and love. I certainly have a warm feeling that none of these 81 people have a virus on their computer harvesting my email address. Bccing everyone eliminates the email lists in the header and thus the potential for spreading viruses.
Later..
David

by dherde

Opps..
I didn't mean 'eliminates ... the potential for spreading viruses' I should have said 'drastically reduces the potential for spreading viruses and reduces the probability that you are responsible for getting everyones' email address on yet another viagra list.

by pmadiga

You only touched on the dark side of BCC. Our organization uses it all the time to conceal the very long distribution lists, which change all of the time. There's nothing like getting an email with 4 inches of To: addresses when they could have been considerately concealed in a BCC. If your major concern about BCC is sniping, you and your company have bigger issues.

by dt-it

11. Excessive and unnecessary quoting of material. Could be seen as too lazy to edit, I suppose. ALL CAPS becomes a convenient method of commenting without reformatting between sections of the existing post, especially when plain text is involved. We all pay for bandwidth, one way or another. When long posts are involved, savage editing is a kind thing.

12. Original posts without cogent titles and the RE: posts that follow by others who either can't figure out how to put a title to their posts, or who are simply too lazy or inconsiderate to bother.

Sorry for any cynical tone.

by iguanasrule

* Highly formatted messages that render the text
illegible.

First off, I'm not at all a fan of HTML-encoded
mail. It unnecessarily takes up too much space
on the server (esp. on groupware systems that
store the messages on the server rather than
transfer the messages to the local machine).
Making lists and emphasizing words can just as
easily be done in plain text as it can on an
HTML-enabled MUA.

(Oh, and speaking of space, let's not forget that
some HTML-enabled MUAs send both plain text and
HTML, effectively doubling the size of the
message. One of them notorious for this is made
by a very large software company in Redmond,
Washington.)

Secondly, HTML messages can be darn hard to read
in some cases. Try reading a 10-point script
font in light green on a pink background some
time and you'll understand what I mean.
Sometimes I've gotten messages like this and just
gave up reading it after the second sentence
because it was causing me too much eye strain.

I really don't care how "pretty" the message
looks. I care that it's legible and conveys the
information succinctly.

by jaqui

which is why html formatted email gets bounced as spam.

I only accept plain text emails.

by jdelasaux

How about the jerks who turn on "Out of office" autoanswer when they are out ... and then they are too lazy to change the status on their ListServ memberships to "NoMail"!

Did you ever get two dozen of the same "Out of office" message, as the ListServ dutifully spreads the Out Of Office message to the 2000 members of the ListServ, every time the ListServ sends a message to the offender?

by penguinvitamins2

Agreed, got the t-shirt, seen the movie etc. etc on that one.

And it could be used against you or your organisation. It notifies the world you're out of the office, including spammers, impersonators....

Greetings,
Stefan

by gm forsythe

I use Outlook both at home and work (Outlook Exchange), so my reply pertains to that program specifically.

1. An education problem. People need to learn the difference between Reply and Reply to All.

2., 3. & 7. I use receipts as default setting at work because it's the only way I can establish whether or not my staff and supervisors have read what I send them. Many staff (for some inexplicable reason) just will not keep Outlook open (and minimized) all day long. So sometimes I do need to ask as a gentle reminder whether my e-mail has been read...even if I KNOW the answer. It is not unusual for people to read e-mail and FORGET that action is required of them. Asking is a very effective reminder.

4. cc IS a necessary feature. Sometimes a wayward employee needs to know that I am letting my own supervisor know that possible disciplinary measures may follow without making a threatening announcement.

6. COULDN'T AGREE MORE ON THIS. IT IS ONE OF MY BIG BUGABOOS!

8. Another very necessary feature. There are times that I am acting on a problem reported by a subordinate, and want that subordinate to be aware of the fact that his/her problem is being taken seriously, but I don't necessarily want my supervisor to know which individual was bringing the problem to my attention. BCC saves me the time of having to go back, retrieve the sent message, add a comment, and forward the e-mail to the employee.

Just my thoughts.

by phelms

Where I work we use CC a lot... much better than
calling meetings for everything that comes up in
an organization that is geographically dispersed.

Some people like BCC, some don't. I use it
occasionally. A plus on BCC that simple
resending doesn't have: the BCC recipient sees
the e-mail as it is when you send it originally,
not some possibly altered second version.

I like many of your other points, especially the
last, recommending the use of headers, footers,
and greetings.

by stubby

?RUDE and inappropriate?.

From the start of your note you also said "where I have to filter through 100s of e-mails a day."

Now to me that is inappropriate behaviour. Especially if you mean you personally filter through them rather than utilising a tool.

Is this ethical - and forget what your company wants you to do - is it legal?

Personally I believe there are times to use BCC. Such as when you are being bullied by a superior officer, or harassed ro any number of other valid reasons. The only rude and unethical thing happening then is the grief you as the bullied or harassed feel.

Before bleating about others mis-uses, spend some time thinking about what you do and the reasons why. Think about creating a training document that could passed round new users or even old users with set ways. Produce a document that describes appropriate ways to use the features you list as your top complaints and don't blame the end user for what a corporate support staff has implemented - especially when they can't change it most likely.

Just my 2p.

by penguinvitamins2

Hi there

I've been down the road on e-mail use and it only comes from past personal experiences that wanted to write this discussion. I've been involved in the e-mail guidelines and policies for a long time in our organisation. And we've come a long way in doing so but it is still not perfect. We already do new staff initiation training sessions, quickguides on our Intranet, and so forth.

Off course I "filter through" e-mails using either rules or only glancing through the first parts of mails to check if there is relevance. However prevention is better than the cure, start at the root cause IF a problem do exists on e-mail misuse.

It seems everyone is up in arms re BCC. Remember I refer to misuse of BCC. Obviously there is good uses for it e.g. HR, external bulk distributions etc.

Thanks for the viewpoint/input :-)

Stefan

by ctos

I agree that email is used improperly. I do use the BCC field, but only in one way: if I am sending an email out to a couple of people that is an identical message, it fits the new "privacy policy" laws here is Canada. The people get the message, I save time typing, and no one knows who else got it.
But that is the only time I use that function. As for the Read Receipts, I use that only on very important individual emails, when I must know that they did read it.
I can see nothing else in your list that I use in any other way...
You are just right...it makes my blood pressure rise when I get "well meaning" forwards from my customers/friends, with a list of 50 email addresses in it....lol
I send them a kind but to the point email, stating if they must send me stuff like that, please send it to my private email, not the work one. That usually makes them think twice before sending me trash...cuts way back on email sorting.

by sql_joe

I beleive both of these are actually VERY important features of E-Mail, and as any good tool can be used properly or abused - but abuse doesn't mean they need to be tossed into the trashpile.

For CC: I always think of this as "courtesy copy", and then only CC people who deserve the courtesy of receiving one. For example, if I am telling someone to get into contact with person X for further help, I will CC person X so that they know what might be comming and the background to it.

For BCC: This is the only way anyone should be forewarding/sending any mass mailings. This keeps everyone the mail is being sent to from becomming victims of uneducated/unscrupulous E-Mail users who foreward every picture/joke/story/chaninletter they receive to every address they can find.

I had one incident where a friend of mine who had a kind of "politcal discussion group" going in E-Mail did not use the BCC function for everyone in his list. One person on the list decided that he didn't agree with something said, and even though he had agreed to be on my friends list took it upon himself to begin spamming everyone on the list with his extremly fanatical views from his work E-Mail. It got so bad I finally had to notify him that if he continued with the unwanted mail I would have to file a complaint with the FTC and his employer directly since I had attempted to "opt out" of his mad ravings several times. I advised my friend to start using the BCC for any mass mailing he does so that this problem will not repeat itself.

Never forget, just because your frined gave you their E-Mail address does not mean they wanted everyone else to have it. Use BCC and protect the privacy of your friends.

George

by zczc23119

Thanks Joe......you did a whole lot better at describing the most appropriate use of BCC. My humble offering at the top was just not clear enough. I bow to you Sir...;-)

by mindilator9

I work in an organization made up almost entirely of franchise owners, each competing with each other. It is against corporate policy to send emails to all of these franchise owners at once without placing the names in BCC. The reason for this is to keep the email addresses of each of these franchise owners private from each other. Everyone is allowed one "accident" but after that, serious disciplinary action is taken against the offending party. All of these rules of etiquette may be subject to an exception, and so therefore should not necessarily be your rules, but a guideline for making your own rules. Common sense always seems to be common only to the IT guys, so just use common sense in your organization. I think that's the point the author's really trying to make. All of his rules appear to be in reaction to a non-tech's lack of common sense. I have never found a BCC to be "RUDE" or even "rude" or even plain inappropriate. Only people with insecurity issues would mind being BCC'ed.

by jaqui

is if the message is not explicitly to me ( email address in to field ) then it is spam.

your companies policy makes sense, but your company can run afoul of the rule. ( included in most inti-spam enabled muas as a sample rule )

you may want to suggest looking at setting up a set of distribution lists for the server, where it sends individually addressed emails to the list, with actual sender not having to put an address in.
( email newsletters are a good example of this usage )

by Member 28898618

Your list of irritations are irrational. The only real email don't is to send "sting" email. that is, if you are pissed, go see the person and talk to them in person. Everything you mention are a big yawn, and many of them are actually necessary to effective email use.

by aaron a baker

What's the matter with you two?
What's wrong with wanting to better ourselves. Are we or are we not Pros.
I suggest that you stop treating your computers like X-Boxes or nintendos and get with the program. If you can't see what your attitudes indicate, you're in the wrong business.
Good Luck
Aaron A Baker
Oh By the way, if youre going to write me back, fine jst have the guts to do it froma real address, not a phony Yahoo or Hotmail k?

by bbhatt

Hi ,
First of all i have to introduce myself.
My name is bhavesh bhatt , has been working with Hostmann-Steinberg as IT Manager in canada.
I have some questions for you to make my organization e-mail system healthy.
Details are as under.

1. So many unneccessary ( bunch of email )email has been recieved by the employee. I have to filter all of them.
2. What will be the best policy and software used to stop the unauthorized email sending ?
3.What will be the steps to implement healthy e-mail system in organization.
4.I want that when users read the email they can choose that the email is belongs to them or not.If not , then they are going to discard the email and if yes , then they are going to accept the email.Is there any software to be in place to stop unauthorized email sending ?

Help.. help..

Bhavesh Bhatt
IT Managar
Hostmann-Steinberg
Canada

by penguinvitamins2

Hi Bhavesh

The only thing I could maybe mention is that it all depends on your management and users as to how efficient and effective e-mails are in your organisation. Using software, rules, filters, anti-spam, incoming and outgoing scanners (e.g. Mail marshall) is in all cases only partially effective.

Draft an e-mail policy and get management to implement and enforce it. Without their buy in your efforts is also wasted. It would also be beneficial if your HR department has some say as to how abusers should be handled.

A product called Mail Marshal could help you filter out mail on an enterprise level. (It sends a message e.g. a rule to block MP3's to the administrator and to the user, and if work related the administrator can release the mail.)

Hope it helps. (PS somewhere on Techrepublic is an e-mail policy framework or in one of their publications)

Stefan

by paul dineen

I work in support, which involves sheltering the
developers for the end users. Not that the
developers don't care about the end users -- far
from it. It's just that they can't get enough
development done if they're frequently interruped
by direct contact from the many users. That's
where I come in -- I carry a badge ;-).
Anyway, when it's important to include a developer
on a message to a user, I use BCC so the
developer gets the message and the user doesn't
get the identity of the developer. Hardly, rude,
inappropriate, unacceptable or unethical. Users
understand that it's this way and they understand
why. I could resend the message directly to the
developer without using bcc, but that's just a
bit of unnecessary overhead.

by jim.allen1

Hi I note your comments but disagree on the BCC bit
Emails sent BCC means that 500 emails do not receive 500 email address as with too and CC thus you are not acting as a mailing list distributor to the next virus which pops it's ugly head and searches for all email address on a third parties computer.

by hro

[...]
Outlook would be so much more efficient if you could thread.

Actually you *can* thread in Outlook (well, sort of!) The default "Current View" is "Messages", but if you check the dropdown, you'll see that one option is "By Conversation Topic" and you can customize the fields which appear and how you sort.

Not that I'm an Outlook fan by any stretch of the imagination, but I do believe in giving the devil his due ;)

hro

by cedrics

Cool. Ill try that. The next poster recommends Mozilla, et al. Thats great, but Im not in a position to change the SE's mind on Outlook just yet. I did get him to allow the tech support staff and Operations staff to use Firefox if they want to. While the in house tools all run better in IE because of how they are written, we spend a lot of time surfing around looking for odds and ends stuff and generally wasting time and it HAS cut down some of the work on his part. Of course Tred Micro running in the BG doesnt hurt much either......now if we can get the sales staff and what not to stop forwarding crazy frog + attachment (soberP/MyDoom, etc) around over and over again....

by avid

i would rather have my email sent bcc especially if it is sent to multiple addresses. it prevents alot of people from getting my address unnecessarily.

by dr dij

to CYA in case of incompetant co-worker, I bcc my boss so he can see the odd stuff this co-worker is doing, and will be on my side if it gets mentioned to him.

I send out a newsletter monthly and I send it to myself with all the recipients in the BCC, very good idea.

by accidental techie

Below is an Outlook signature I use to reply to people who put too many unrelated email addresses in the To: or Cc: fields. Feel free to copy and make it one of your signature. Then it takes only a few clicks to educate them. Maybe we can educated the well meaning emailers who just don't realize the problem their emails can create.

I'd like to encourage you to hide all email addresses. You might not realize the implication of putting many unrelated email addresses in the To: field of a message. The below information might be helpful to you.
In an effort to keep our email system virus-free and as spam free as possible, we request that our email addresses are NOT included in To: or Cc: field when the message is sent to a large group of unrelated individuals. When email addresses are visible in a message, all individuals listed are exposed to more opportunities to receive a viruses or to have their address used for spam.

Even if the addresses do not appear to be visible (just their name is visible) in the To: or CC: field, THEY ARE IN THE MESSAGE HEADER and anyone who knows where they are, e.g. designers of viruses, can use them.

Some viruses work by sending themselves not only to the people listed in your contact folder but also to ANY email addresses visible in any To: or Cc: field anywhere in any message headers on your computer.

Group email can be accomplished by listing all the email addresses in the Bcc: field and putting only your own email address in the To: field. Email addresses in the Bcc: field are NOT visible to other individuals in the group but everyone in the Bcc: field still gets the message. This is standard practice within our office when we send a message to a group of people.

But be aware, some Internet Service Providers (ISP) do limit the number of addresses you can put in the Bcc field, usually 10 to 20. We also utilize a Mail List program for messages to very large groups.

Individual messages to us or to a few in a working group of individuals are not a problem.

by jaymiller25

While users don't practice etiquette in their emails, I don't think it's worth focusing alot of attention on. I'm sure there are alot more important issues from an IT perspective rather than if Betty in Accounting used an annoying font in her email.
Just my thoughts.

by penguinvitamins2

You might be right to say that there are more important things to focus on. So why should employees waste time fiddling with all sorts of personalised settings in e-mail. Is it really required to establish some sort of personal identity in the organisation by using e-mail fonts, colors etc in ones messages?

As you can appreciate e-mail, if used to communicate to clients is part of organisation image branding. So propose an e-mail message standard. It should do a lot of good for the corporation.

With regards :-)

by bhaupt

I agree with comments elsewhere that the BCC is critical for all distribution lists which are not maintained on an Exchange server as separate units, but am concerned about what sounds like misuse of company systems for personal and/or political purposes.

Further, the BCC tool is properly applied within a business context to do exactly that which you decried as "rude" -- the notificaion of supervision or other concerned paries that a memo of X content was sent to Y individual. Is this not the exact function that the BCC was performing with less bandwidth, storage and even less productivity loss?

Lastly, but definately MOST importantly, the primary rule to apply in email (as in all document distribution) is "Need To Know". NEVER send a copy of a memo to someone as a CYA. ONLY copy those people who truly need to know. If you miss someone, they can always be added later! Every person who receives a message becomes responsible for its maintenance and destruction. This may, or may not be regulated by government rules or laws depending on your industry or departmental function. (Do the names Enron and Anderson Consulting ring a bell?)

Remember, that although it may not be recognized as such by a large cross-section of your workforce, in the final analysis email is a FORMAL business communication method that is subject to all the same rules and regulations that paper and other documetns are.

by dbrezina

I agree with a lot of your points, but not all. In my business there are two kinds of emails, and not always "internal/external." They might be internal, external(confidential) and external(nonconfidential). I'm sure most businesses are like that. Your internal stuff might be more informal, your external stuff to your customers might be confidential, and your external stuff to a trade association, the government, or posting on a list are nonconfidential. So, I think you should write emails with the care you would if you were writing on paper. And things like a bcc are fine. I don't think anyone should assume you are posting a public document or sending a confidential document and nobody else received a copy. You wouldn't think so on a letter, would you?

by jaqui

mozilla thunderbird, mozilla messenger, netscape messenger you can thread messages on your local system.

I use threading by default in mozilla messenger.
since I have several thousand email messages that I am keeping for archive purposes.

I know, with my linux box I could actually copy the mailcap file into a db whenever a new message comes in, creating a searchable archive, just haven't bothered doing it.

by jaqui

a lot of what you list, with what I added is exactly what mozilla.org's email lists and newsgroups require.

thier policy / ettiquette page:

http://www.mozilla.org/community/etiquette.html

Mozilla Forum Etiquette
Ground Rules

There are a few ground rules for participation in forums hosted by mozilla.org. Please respect these rules, and each other.

Be civil.

No personal attacks. If you feel the need to flame someone, please do it in private e-mail. Do not feel compelled to defend your honor in public.
Stay on topic.

These are generally high-traffic groups, so please pay attention to the topic of your messages, and check that it still relates to the charter of the forum to which you are posting.
No crossposting.

It is almost never appropriate to send the same message to two mailing lists or newsgroups. Please don't do it. Or, if you must, make sure you set the Followup-To and Reply-To fields to ensure that replies go only to one, not to both.
example: Newsgroup: netscape.public.seamonkey
Newsgroup: netscape.public.browser
FollowUp-To: netscape.public.browser
Reply-To: mozilla-browser@mozilla.org
Subject: XPFE browser?

It is never appropriate to send the same message to two forums when one of those forums has general in its name.
No advocacy.

These groups are for discussions about the Mozilla source code. As such, discussions about which operating system is better, or whether one toolkit is better than another, or whether Microsoft is the root of all evil, are not relevant. There are many forums for discussing such issues on Usenet; please have such discussions there instead of on the Mozilla forums. Might we recommend:

* comp.infosystems.www.advocacy
* comp.os.linux.advocacy
* comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
* comp.os.os2.advocacy
* comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
* comp.sys.be.advocacy
* comp.sys.mac.advocacy
* comp.unix.advocacy
* comp.lang.java.advocacy
* alt.netscape.sucks
* alt.fan.mozilla
* gnu.misc.discuss

Ignore spammers.

Spam is a blight upon the face of the net. Nobody likes it. However, it is hard to avoid. Despite our best efforts, you will occasionally see spam on the Mozilla mailing lists and newsgroups. If you feel the need to flame the spammer, do not CC the list. Complaining about spam in public increases noise, but not signal. It may make you feel better, but it doesn't help. (For info on fighting spam effectively, check out spam.abuse.net.)
No anonymous messages.

If you have something that you are offering for others to read, you should be willing to attach your name to it, and to give people the ability to reply to you privately about it, in case they feel that a public reply would be inappropriate.

So-called address munging is frowned upon. Your return address should be replyable. If you want to avoid spam, use mail filters, or don't post. Other alternatives are not welcome here.
No large attachments.

Do not send binary attachments, including screen shots, and especially including screen shots of textual dialog boxes. Many people read these messages through slow network connections; try to be respectful of them. If you have a large file that you would like to distribute, put it on a Web page and announce the URL instead of attaching it.
Trim your follow-ups.

Do not quote the entire content of the message to which you are replying. Include only as much as is necessary for context. Remember that if someone wants to read the original message, they can; it is easily accessible. A good rule of thumb is, don't include more quoted text than new text.
Post HTML at your own risk.

Keep in mind that not everyone uses mail or news readers that can easily display HTML messages. Consequently, you will reach a larger audience if you post in plain-text. Many people simply ignore HTML messages, because it takes a nontrivial amount of effort to read them.
Report bugs in Bugzilla, not in the Mozilla forums

If you encounter a bug with Mozilla, please take the time to file a report in Bugzilla about it. Mozilla developers do not all have time to follow all the Mozilla-related forums on a regular basis, and if you just post a bug report to a newsgroup or mailing list then it may not reach anyone who can actually do anything about the bug. By reporting the bug through Bugzilla you ensure that it will receive a higher level of attention, and will be tracked along with other bugs. Please also read the Bugzilla etiquette page.
Identify your subject matter.

Not everyone has time reading all forum postings. To ensure that your message reach the right people at timely manner, identify your subject matter clearly in the subject line. Subjects like a question and Mozilla problem are unacceptable.
No unsubscribe messages.

Unfortunately, this bears repeating. See How To Subscribe.
No test messages.

Please do not send test messages to the newsgroups except netscape.public.mozilla.test. The test newsgroup has no corresponding mailing list.

Posting Conventions

In addition to the ground rules, there are some posting conventions that you should follow. Posting conventions may vary from forum to forum, so you should read past postings to get a feel of what is expected from you before posting.

Top-posting vs bottom-posting

Some people like to put reply after the quoted text, some like it the other way around, and still some prefer interspersed style. Debates about which posting style is better have lead to many flame wars in the forums. To keep forum discussion friendly, please follow the general preference, which is bottom-posting (with the exception of the accessibility forum, which is top-posting).
Public but not for end users

All newsgroups hosted by mozilla.org are for contributors only. Use user self-help forums for user support.

Please do not complain about the word public in newsgroup names. The word was originally used to remind Netscape staff that these forums are open to the general public. It was an unfortunate choice that most developers have no control over. Please don't argue about the naming when you are directed to other forums..

Learn more about Usenet newsgroups and Usenet etiquette at the Usenet Info Center.

by vltiii

A few of these I think are valid, but he bulk of them sound more like personal pet peeves than misuse of the system. In any case the administrator of the system does have some control of how the email system is configured.

by jfowler

Plain text is (and should be) the norm for business. That said however, I (and several of my correspondents) prefer the HTML variety for private communications. It personalizes what would otherwise be a too sterile form.
Lighten up people.. the problem is with the users / abusers, not with the available options.
It's fine (necessary even) to establish an e-mail policy, but must we be so Draconian?

by jaqui

to break people of the bad habits they developed.

then relax implementation of policy allow some of the more usefull features that plain text only removes, but don't change the policy, then it's there to enforce to control abuse when it starts again.

by travelstan

Your account of the email misuses is true in every organisation using email as a means of official communication (which could include any of - unwanted, unsolicited, a combo of these words).

Today I spend more time reading someone else's email - since I am CC-ed, than I spend time reading mail genuinely intended or seeking my responses !!

I also find a lot of the email users like to forward both religious and boss centric communication, which is not only annoying but consumes so much of space on the Server storage front.

While there is no compulsion to resort to email snarls, most of us carry out this form of assault without realising that the face on the other side of your email aint gonna enjoy your company from that instant on...

What I always tell my users is - email is not a heartless or brainless tool, so when u send out an email, use both !!

by the witch

You are probably too young to remember the days when Memorandums were typed with carbon copies and blind copies sent on paper (gasp) to everyone who was required to read it. Very time consuming going through your in-tray but you did have a suitable copy which you could write notes on and follow up on.

E-mail is just such communication which requires your attention, feedback or even followup. It remains a corporate means of communication which people use to get a message around. It does have the ability to be time consuming and a waste but even in those dark days a lot of "spam" or junk mail arrived at your desk. No different than with current email.

Therefore my point is - e-mail is an official form of communication and should be treated like a typed or handwritten memorandum. If a policy contains that message the battle is won.

by jan de ruiter

I did not read all 64 entries, but I did not come
across any entry about replying.
The thing that annoys me the most is when I send
someone a mail with a question, I can wait for
days or even weeks without getting a reply.
When I ask why, I get different responses:
1. I don't know the answer
2. I forwarded the question to someone else, and
I cannot help if he doesn't answer
3. I don't understand the question
4. I don't have time for it now, i will look into
the matter later.

In cases 1, 3 and 4 a short mail reply with the
reason for not handling the mail would be enough
to take away the irritation.
In case 2 a CC to me with the forward would let
me know who to contact next.

I use email as means of communication.
When I need an answer right away, I use the telephone. When the person works close by, I go
to him/her in person.
But when he/she is busy, or when the question
is not that urgent, I use mail.
In the first two forms of communication it is
rude not to answer to a question.
Why then is it so common these days NOT to respond
to an email?

In my opinion the minimal email exchange is 3
emails:
1. the question
2. the answer (or reason for not giving an answer right now)
3. thanks for the trouble of answering.

The last one is needed so the answerer will know
his answer is sufficient or not.

What does the forum think about this?

by soundsolutionsinc

I couldn't agree more with your comments. I'd also add:

If you are CC'd on an email, you needn't respond or comment - you are being informed incidentally.

If you are BC'd on an email, NEVER reply to ALL. I had a user who wanted that ability taken away. My reply to them was that the person who gets BC'd on an email should never do so.

by aaron a baker

I could not agree with you more. Wether we like it or not Etiquette in what makes the world go round. If there is no Diplomacy, then there is no respect etc. I submit that these are not little bits of paper being passed around in a classroom like the kids, but are in point of fact "Mail" in all senses of the word and should be treated as such. I'm gratful that somebody has brought up the subject as there have been many times, when I received E-Mail with what I considered a serious lack of etiquette and/or forethought. But we always let it go, assuming that perhaps the person doesn't know any better or intends no harm. I noted that you indicated the CAPS are still considered screaming, I'm glad you said it.Too many time, I've seen the Caps used to Highlight and they end up doing exactly the reverse.
Finally now that it's out in the open, perhaps we can all work togeher to acheive a more professional standard in our correspondence.
After all, we are Pros aren't we?
Thank you.

Excellent Subject and very well put indeed.
My warmest regards
Aaron A Baker

by deepsand

CC performs precisely the [i]same function[/i] in e-mail as it does on written communications. Its potential for misuse or abuse is no greater in the former than in the latter.

As for BCC, it too serves a most legitimate purpose, that of sending identical copy to multiple recipients who have no need to know the identity of the others. That is can be misused is not sufficient justification for not using it.

by taxista

I use BCC mostly to send jokes and other stupid stuff only to people I know. I do that mostly in case those jokes get forwarded again and a list of e-mail addresses doesn't go with them. I hate getting e-mails with my addy listed with 10 others in the To: or CC: fields. Who hasn't received an e-mail with 20 addys on top of 20 addys on top of another 20 addys?

by kevin_a_collins

I read through your list and at first I understood your concerns but then realized they are in fact "pet peeves" as one poster mentioned.
What made me realize that this is a pet peeve is the comment that people are using features in a way they were not intended to be used.

I am a careful crafter of e-mail and carefully, intentionally use every feature you mentioned and in the process I have misused e-mail in every way you mentioned except I dont have "return receipt" as a default because I choose which features to "misuse" each time.
And my so called misuse of email is often for legal purposes, for example an email thread with close to hundred back and forths printed as one long document which showed the unbroken thread of conversation and it was used used successfully in a legal context.
So who are you to say some somones use of a feature is a "misuse" or not as was intended ?
Where are you getting this concept of "not what it was intended for" ? was there some law passed on email use when it was first released that I missed ? Although the concept of C.C. has been around long before computers were even invented back when Carbon paper was used.
I used to fall for IT complaints usually on the basis of servers being too full but disk space is so cheap these days they are giving it away.
Before I would adopt your top 15 list of "misuses" I would switch my company to a free email or get a new email admin. If you intentionally removed C.C. from my email system you would be fired.
It is clear that your comments about emails being: "long winded" and that "formatting is a waste" indcates a narrow view of users and that narrow view is laced with contempt.

by i.t.services

Pet peeves are what MOST of your complaints amount to. While you do raise some valid points, the way in which email is used comes down to common sense and corporate policy.

I love information technology, as well as information systems and programming, that is why I have made it my life?s work. That being said, I also have to watch out for all of my employees. Personally, I own my company and while I will listen to your complaints, I may or may not take the actions that you call for, i.e., HTML formatted email... I like it so it stays. PERIOD. My company, MY rules. Your job is to give advice on how you think things should work, mine is to provide you with the tools, time, equipment and resources to get the job done. When your advice and my requests are in conflict, (if the job is doable) I win. Why you might ask? I own the resources on which you are working. I paid for the servers, I paid for the cable, I paid for the routers, I paid for the switches, I paid for the software, and I paid for every client computer that you see.

Do I sometimes get pig-headed about ?best use?? Absolutely! Sometimes the ongoing hassles for I.T., are what makes the hours sitting in front of the computer for others in the office bearable. Believe it or not, a lot of good people DO NOT even like computers. Formatted backgrounds with ?pretty pictures? can brighten up their day, thereby creating a better working environment, meaning less frustration, meaning clearer minds, meaning LESS calls to I.T. for simple things, meaning more production, which I am all about.
Why? Because I have to pay the bills, at the end of the day keeping the lights on, the electricity flowing, the broadband connected, and yes your paychecks coming, is my responsibility.

You never know, if I grow so large on day as to make the fortune five hundred, the policies may change.

by beads

This list of pet peeves is the rant of an email admin gone amuk. What hes really saying is that he has no control, no policies in effect or the ability to enforce them should the afore mentioned policies be broken. Sour grapes.

Start by crafting a logical and well thought out set of email policies for your organization. Get senior managements input and approval. Then and only then should you be whining about email abuse.

These peeves as they have been labled are also very usefull tools when used as they were intended. Agreed, I haven't seen a college level course on email ettiquette, perhaps the author should write one and submit it.

- beads

This discussion is closed to new replies.