False information on resume - ever do it?

Of all the jobs I've ever applied for, only once have I been asked for proof of my qualifications (Degree certificate etc.) What was absurd was that this was the 2nd interview for a job I had expressly said I didn't want at the 1st interview! (They sent for me for the 2nd interview without telling me what the job was! I assumed it would be one in which I had expressed interest at the 1st interview) My certificates were copied and I was photographed by the interviewing company, British Telecom.
I once applied for a job after 13 months of unemployment in 1991-2. I did not state that I had been unemployed but stated what I had been doing during the 13 months (interfacing a knitting machine to a computer - just to keep my brain active). I got the job. I have no qualms about omitting negative facts such as unemployment or (even worse?) working at Macdonalds, but you do have to fill the time gap with something positive. You could stretch the time spent doing something positive like installing/repairing a friend's PC.

Diligent employers will do background checks on employees being considered for hiring or recently hired. A lie about a certification is very easy to find. Employers are forced to take action as they don't want to take a chance at being responsible for non-action if the employee acts improperly at some point later.

I agree. Stretching the truth is a lie and I garantee you it will catch up with you! Suppose you landed this great job on the premis that you know what you lied about on your resume and the employer asks for papers or some other proof, What are you going to do then?You are going to be standing red faced is what you are going to do! Not to mention that you have just showed that your charactor is not up to moral values. I have never lied on a resume and when I don't have the appropiate papers or school training I say so but I do stress the fact that I have had the hands on experiance. This has always been a great avenue because I have gotten jobs with my hands on training and my charactor hasn't been blimmished. Keep your charactor intact and tell the truth! You will feel better about yourself and they will think better of you for it.

"You can't be serious" was my first thought as well -- now this post enforces that thought. Your statements are absurd -- I have to assume your comments are meant as shock value to spawn converstation. If your comments are sincere, then I can assume your attitude may be the reason you can't find a new job.

My advice is to get the credentials you need. Sure, I don't know your individual situation, and it may not be easy, but there's a lot of us out here working full time, raising families, and putting in the extra effort to get the credentials that will get us ahead. If you don't want to do that then you have two options: 1) be satisfied with the work you qualify for or 2) if you have the skills, start your own business.

The world that you say we live in is not the world I live in -- hard work and doing the right thing (in terms of ethical choices) pays off. Sure some either get "lucky" or can buck the system, but I can't control that -- all I can control is the choices I make -- and I sleep well at night.

Best of luck in your job search!

It's everyone else's fault -- that is the world we really live in, I see it every day, even in my own extended family. If more people took ownership for their own situation then we'd all be a lot better off.

How many of you have the experience that interviewers paint a fantastic picture of the project that never seems to materialise once they have you stuck in the job?

If you are as good as you say you are, just create an application that demos your skills. Then send it with your resume.

This can help break down the barriers. Sure, it might not work 75% of the time, but all you need is one job to get your foot in the door.

Sorry, that doesn't wash. Saying you have a degree when you don't is a LIE. Saying you're certified if you aren't is a LIE. Period.

-CB

To tell a direct untruth is not legal and not moral.

I see neither a legal nor a moral bar to providing a prospective employer only with information that he has specifically requested.

When answering an advert requiring (eg) 4 Yrs ms sql, 5 yrs visual studio and 3 years .net - if I have the experience I say yes and give a couple of examples. I expect to be required to amplify during interview. Detail starting 40 years ago is just fluff and totally irrelevant, but available if anybody is interested enough to ask.

First, DON'T LIE, especially about a degree that you don't have. Info like that is WAY too easy to check out these days. But, I agree, DO let your resume speak to what you've accomplished, with what budget in what timeframe, etc. As one resume book said, "modesty is not a virtue when putting together a resume."

but truth is, it will come back up to you and bite you in the ass when you least expect it.

You're right about how ridiculous it is to be grilled by someone with a script. There are places that give an interviewer a huge list of questions on a specific skillset from which they can pick randomly. You mess up on the random questions, they get to assume you don't know anything. What a loss for the hiring company !

I would not suggest doing that. Almost all applications/written offers state that if *ANY* information is found to be false, the employee may be terminated immediately. I know someone who did just this for an accounting position. He said he had a bachelors degree from [insert university name here], which was really his only fib on the application as I understand it. Anyways, he got the job, and did relatively well at it. As a follow up, several months later, they actually did verify his credentials(or lack thereof). He was terminated immediately.

CRobinson is right, degrees and certification training are not at all 'goofy details'. They are one of the primary things that will get you into a position. Employers don't care about what you know, unless you have a piece of paper to prove it.

When I first saw the post I thought you were going to say something like, stretching the truth about your true knowledge or experience with something. i.e. - saying that you are a PHP guru because you developed one website using PHP. If you have a good knowledge of something, but aren't exatly an 'expert'... you could *maybe* stretch that out, because it's simply an opinion, and not really a provable fact. If you consider yourself an expert, that's great; but you can't tell them you have a degree in computer science because you tought yourself how to build a computer and a bit of C++.

It is Good to indicate what a person knows and whats he is familiar , but you said you did a training on a new stuff and you have studied it by your own , what if they asked you for the training certificate many does... So why making yourself in a bad stitution.

Explaining situations like this is what a cover letter is for... Point out to them that you learned your skills in the "school of hard knocks" instead of 'wasting' time on things like certification courses (most software certs. are a bunch of pap anyhow (and a good company should know this), hardware and platform certs. may be a different story).

DON'T lie on your resume.

First of all....don't lie. You'll wish you hadn't down the road.

Second, you need to present your resume to reflect your strong suits. Ok, so you don't have a degree, but you're certified. This tells them you've got some smarts. Spin it that you've taken all the initiative to do the work and get certified. I.e. you're a motivated go getter that will take the initiative. I'd rather have that in my office than someone who just has a piece of paper.

What have you done with your training so far? State your accomplishments. Volunteer for an organization and help them into the tech. age. Are you a programmer, then build them an app that helps them reduce costs or increase revenues. Quantify those figures...managers love numbers! If you're a system admin, help a struggling org. with improving their network.

What I'm trying to say is, with what you?ve got make sure you communicate your accomplishments. Show them you can make lemonade out of lemons.

Good luck!

I totally agree with being truthful because like the old saying the truth always comes out eventually. I have only done it once in the past and it did not help me get an interview but when I did have one I was asked about it and it was not good.

However, just recently had a excellent interview which I was up front and honest but I sometimes think it is hurting me and I really thought I had the job because what they were looking for was what my skill sets are and to have the opportunity to rollover to be a system admin(I do have this ability) really rocked! I guess they didn't like the 60k negotiable price or whatever it may have been.

I have a vast amount of self taught and schooled knowledge in the most common areas of IT. Which I expell during an interview along with some achievements I have accomplished which I feel is key to a prospective employer.

I lied about a degree (which at that time I did not have) and sure enought they researched it and called me in. I went to UCLA for 4 years but didn't have the degree but was extremely close (2 classes short) but even that little bit was enough. Got fired on the spot. Falsifying something always can come back - especially in a government or high tech job. Just about count on a background search. heck anyone can pay $35 and do it. Why wouldn't a company. Thier risk and exposure is HUGE on a new hire. Not only you education but criminal and all that too.

I wouldnt recomend lying about having a degree or certifications. When I applied for my last two jobs they actually called the college I graduated from and verified my cert. I would hate to "get past the screeners" and have the interviewer be an alumni or a fellow techie and ask for your career ID. I would be straight forward with them as much as possible. Employers ask for certain things for a reason, and if you dont meet those then try and circumvent the ssytem with using your experience instead. But outright lying wont get you the job.

Hello,

Neither do I have a degree and I also possess enough experience and self-training to "hold my own" and usually can exceed most 'techies' in this Windows world.
What I say in _my_resume and when asked at interview time is:
"I have this _level_ of experience/training" i.e., 'I have the training level of a BSEE.' Then I show my various certs and a portfolio of past projects or designs that are not company confidential. This gets me past the screeners to the actual hiring manager which will usually get me the contract.
Just a thought. It's not lying and it does get the point across.

what you SHOULD do is use this to your advantage. The big thing is that you actually HAVE to do this. Tell the company that you are actively working on your degree and that your technical skills arefrom the best school - the school of hard knocks and you are self taught. DO NOT put down the certification however. You don't know that the person you are talking to doesn't have it and considers it a badge of honor. tell him that you want to get the diploma and hopefully you can get the time (since your college classes need to come first).

what you SHOULD do is use this to your advantage. The big thing is that you actually HAVE to do this. Tell the company that you are actively working on your degree and that your technical skills arefrom the best school - the school of hard knocks and you are self taught. DO NOT put down the certification however. You don't know that the person you are talking to doesn't have it and considers it a badge of honor. tell him that you want to get the diploma and hopefully you can get the time (since your college classes need to come first). This shows that you have a plan of action, desitre to improve and self motivated.

..@$$ if you attempt something so wretched. I?ll be sure to inform the loan consolidators that college was merely ?goofy business?. I?m sure they?ll leave me alone for the next 10 years of my payment schedule. I went to college to have an advantage over people like you. Want some advice? If you?re so confident in your skills, go freelance. I?m pretty sure your boss will posses some sort of degree, and appreciate this gesture as much as I do.

Even if the ethics of it don't stop you, I've seen one person who did that and got caught get walked out by security after working at a firm for several months -- the minute they find out, you're out and it's a black mark on your record. You think you're having trouble finding a job now? Try having to explain that 2 months at _________. And if you've really learned the new stuff on your own -- go take the certification exam, you should be able to pass it and actually get those certifications, rather than lying about them.

Companies do not hire based on resumes. They use resumes to screen out apllicants that merit further evaluation, usually at an interview. If you are getting called in for interviews but not hired, your problem is not your resume, it is your interview skills.
If you are not getting interviews maybe the problem is not the content of your resume, but its presentation. As a reader of resumes, I found almost all of the "techie" resumes that cross my desk to be horribly written. They are filled with typos. They often have hand written updates. They don't highlight the applicants strengths. I have to struggle to find the information I am looking for. So when I do get a well written resume, it counts for a lot even if the applicant's history is less than optimum. And, as is mentioned in a previous post, a cover letter is important.
As a final caution, I relate this story. I interviewed an apllicant whose resume suggested he had a Master's degree. Since the degree came from my alma mater, that was the first thing I asked about. If he had not attended the University he claimed, I would have known and he would not have been hired. As it turned out, he had enrolled in the degree program but had not completed it. A more careful reading of his resume revealed that he never claimed he had earned the degree so he was not disqualified. Eventually we did hire this fellow, but for a different position than that for which he had applied.
Bottom line, the best resume is well written and accurate. It will allow hirers to fit you into the position they need you to fill.

In my state, State Employeese have been sucessfully prosecuted for misrepresenting their qualifications during their hiring, for the crime of uptaining state funds under false pretenses.

Ever do stuff or been responsible for stuff not related to your title? We all have! To get ahead - you have to and the company you work for WILL take advantage you and your good work ethics.

Ever work for a company that uses titles not commonly used by the rest of the world?

They do this in order to make it harder for you to find your next job! Screeners/Recruiters look for titles first, then the details. In other words, they may only read the details if the title matches.

This is and has been the only area that I change to match what I actually do for the company.

NEVER claim to have a degree or credential you DO NOT have!

For example:

Take an engineering management position at three different companies.

At company A the title is Manager I (II, III, or IV)but nothing reveals what the person managed and most companies will not reveal any more details than that.

At Company B the title (same work) is Engineer IV but the title itself does not reveal that you managed people.

At Company C the title is Module Development Manager.

In each case - I would call the title Engineering Manager but list "internal" title within the Job Duties description. Reasonable people and anyone that's been around will understand what your are trying to accomplish.

Is it lying - some say yes - but it works both ways because the company you work for is doing the same things by hiding what you do behaind a "title".

It's tempting to embellish your accomplishments because it is too difficult to verify them legally. Most HR departments will not (for legal reasons) reveal much beyond your last title, and employment dates.

I would never lie on my resume. Just doesn't seem to be the proper thing to do. If I can't get a job on my own merits, then I don't deserve it.

I completely agree after all, whether white, gray or black ,a lie is a lie is a lie.

sadly but truly too much data actually CAN hurt even if it is illegal. It can show your age which is not SUPPOSED to be a factor. If you have 35 years of skills it means you are in your 50s and can potentially retire, leave early, and YES more likely to die so sadly these factors do matter to a hiring agent. It also may mean they see you as a dinosaur. That you only know cobol (or as mentioned above IBM/360).

Lying on your resume has nothing to do with your skills sets and everything to do with you as a person.

Sooner or later you get caught and then that blemish is much darker than not being able to do a job for lack of knowledge - it becomes not being able to be trusted to do a job for lack of morality.

Think about that.

To be honest the resume wouldn't answer the 10 year part but that is where the cover letter comes in. Start by indicating that XP (2 years max I think), windows 2000 (NOTICE the 2000 part as in 6 years max), win 98 (only 8 years possible unless you worked at Microsoft developing the thing)) and WIN95 all relate. If you started as a WIN95 admin in 95 then you have 11 years WIN OS management skills. Exchange 5.5 isn't 10 years old. Mail administraion skills CAN be 10 years of skill. You don't need to respond to the application as much as to the type of skill. If the person who is the initial reviewer can't grasp this then you may as well not work there.

instituted a policy a few years back to review everyone's applications and resumes whenever they get a promotion or a transfer.

Several people got promoted and lost their jobs upon resume review. Others kept themselves in a position where they would not get promoted because they didn't want to risk losing pension benefits they had accrued over the years.

Here is something I just recalled that happened to my mom. Prior to WW II she went to the University of Bucharest in Roumania. Place got bombed, burned down etc. No records of course. She is a special ed school teacher and needed to prove her degree for a job 30 years later. Wrote down on a sheet all the classes she could recall she took and went to a place at UCLA. The counselor actually TOOK DOWN a catalog from that time period from a shelf and verified that those sounded like classes she took. When people want to check your education they can do amazing things!

who lied on his resume. Even if he were the best person for the job, that would disqualify him from current or future consideration.

Those Enron dirtbags finally got caught. Those steriod athletes will pay the price big time (they get "caught" by the physical damage done).

My key to breaking any law or rule: Is it verifiable? Will I be caught? If the answer is an unqualified yes, or fairly strong probably, I don't do it. If I'm in the middle of a pack of cars all going 80, I'm going 80. If I've got a cop somewhere ahead of me, so that going 80 would cause me to pass, I'm going whatever everybody else it.

Resume exagerations for me are in the area of unverifiable: years of experience when the company no longer exists; particular job experience when the company I work for only verifies that I work there and my salary; things of that nature. And when in doubt, don't.

all jobs are based on skill sets and pay grades. If you have skilla you get paid at grade a rate. With b you get b and so forth. The job you apply for can get paid a through f. If you have the degree you get e or f. Ok you now are getting this level of payment but your degree-less so you should have gotten pay a or b. that is fraud. I doubt many companies would take the time and cost to get legal issues involved (much easier to just terminate for cause) but they could and if there is a lot of money involved they might if just to make a point.

Lying is lying.

Degree's and certifications are easy to check. I have my HR do that as a matter of course during the candidate's background check. If they come up with a candidate who lied in this area the candidate is immediately dropped from consideration, no further discussion.

If you need a degree or certs for the job you want get off your couch and invest the effort in the study. You say you hold your own...prove it!

It is a huge problem to lie on resumes or even in an interview about college education, previous positions, etc. You will get caught and you will be fired. You can also be held for damages in some cases although thats rare. You'll certainly break bridges.
IT IS OK to position your qualifications cleverly BUT straightfoward style and openess, coupled with your self esteem and good track record WILL WORK WONDERS - DON'T DISCOUNT THAT. BUT don't lie.. Bill Clinton got away with it as well as slippery language, etc. - that doesn't work in people and/or business relationships. Keep it straight.

Surely the high profile cases of Michael "Doin a Heckava Job Brownie" Brown at FEMA and countless sports coaches over the years has taught you that eventually, the truth does catch up to you. Your cover can be blown by something as innocent as a comment by someone who knew you in a former life to a rival who wants to get the goods on you. Do you really want to live your life looking over your shoulder?

It may be a lot of work, especially now that you are a fully grown adult with real life work experience and responsibilities, but you may want to bite the bullet and go to school to get the degree that's holding you back.

I appologize if I repeated what others have said, but 144 comments is a lot to sift through. ; ]

Good luck.

I can also see from your follow up messages throughout this thread that the reason you think you can do this lying is because EVERYONE does it and that fault is always elsewhere. What does what ENRON or KENYA or CLINTON or anyplace else have to do with what is happening between you and your employer. You keep referring to dog-eat-dog. I guess that means the ends justifies the means. If your conscious says to you that it is ok I sure wouldn't want you as a fellow employee. You sir are morally bankrupt if that is your way of getting ahead.

I find it quit disheartening that there are so many to quickly point the finger and reprimand something that most folks have done to a point. I would have to agree that a blatant lie is wrong, however there are so so many ways to creatively state things = "stretch the truth". I have been in the position of actually being on the hiring end of things and being very technical myself i always hold any potential employee to anything on their resume. However when something is stated in such a way, as was suggested earlier, that states they are working on it versus have it, i never held the person accountable. Besides when these recruiters run queries they are looking at keywords not the person or resume directly as they are usually not technical. Thereby working those keywords into your resume you will get seen more often = more potential work.

Take it from someone who has manage employees for over 20 years. Don't lie on your resume because it will eventually catch up with you and it won't be pretty. I once hired someone who had lied on a resume and the person even had a great reference. When I hired this person, the person could not deliver the goods and it was very embarassing for me because this person was brought into at a higher level than the existing staff. I had to make the decision to let the person go because my credibility was on the line and it was not working out. I advise you to keep plugging along and the interviews will come if you are persistent in going for jobs you are truly qualified for...If you are terrific and sounds like you are, look for a job that will get you in the door and do it to the best of your ability. Put in the time and dedication to showboat your talents and you will get noticed. I moved up the ladder because I took on extra work and was able to impliment various process improvement efforts with hefty cost savings.

Good luck and stay true to yourself.

Thanks for the flash back James. I had an interview once where I did a panel interview and they focused on behavioral style questions; it was the worst interview I have ever gone to and I have been to many. In this instance 5 people sat on one side of a long conference table with me on the other side (Me vs Them) they took turns asking me questions like ?Tell me about a time you helped someone with something they were doing wrong? Just the fact that I had never been in a five person tag team interview was enough to get me nervous and asking these insane (in my eyes) questions through me for a loop.

I myself do not believe in either of two practices and would seriously reconsider if I would work for anyone which employed such tactics. Now that I am an in demand professional I find myself interviewing companies while they interview me. I know there are allot of others out there that do the same; friends of mine have walked out on interviews; a practice I do not recommend by the way; when the interviewer took on a style they did not find appropriate.

Steve

"I have some questions that we have to ask all the candidates ..." ACK!!!

I was to an interview recently where 5 candidates were brought in for quesitons from the interview "team". It descended into 4 guys defending themselves and me sitting back taking in the view.

Afterwards, I was taken aside and asked why I had so little to say in ther "interview". I said that it was because it seemed more like being with the losing team in the boardroom on "The Apprentice", and when they were ready to schedule a personal interview, they could call me.

Haven't heard back, and moved on.

Consider the following innocent example: If they bring you in for a 'Java' job, based on your resume having 'Java Script'; they may accuse you of lying on your resume, or of not being careful enough (i.e., lacking in the 'attention to detail' category of skills).

So imagine how badly they will treat you if you intentionally fake a degree or training.

Instead, simply state that you have ATTENDED a college or university; or admit that you have taught yourself via accepted texts. Additionally, in your cover letter provide brief, concrete, verifiable examples of how your self taught expertise accomplished something equivalent to what a credentialed candidate accomplished.

But don't lie... it will haunt you for a very long time. All these HR resume screeners talk to the same recruiters, they will know who you are.

Also, be VERY CAREFUL of the following: when asked what your job titles have been, provide BOTH the job title AND a brief description of the position... if your job title was Web Master, but you were never involved in Network management, for example, BUT they are looking for a Network Administrator (because they are using the term Web Master to mean Network Administrator), they will also think you are lying about that.

Best of luck!

During my last job-hunting process, many of the agencies and head hunters I dealt with suggested that I 'fine tune' my resume to meet the potential employer's needs. Isn't this just another form of lying? I prefer to spell out all my relevant skills as I feel they speak for themselves. Fine tuning the resume and leaving out information that may not be relevant to the job is lying by omission, isn't it?

A few of years ago, at an interview where I was sure I wasn't what they were looking for (too old), I answered the question "how do you handle pressure" with "I bottle it up inside, then I go and get schnockerd at the Legion Hall after work."

Was there for years until the owner retired and dissolved the law practice.

If you are as sharp as you say you are why do you feel the need to lie. There are a lot of intelligent people that don't have a degree or certifications. Lay your skill set on the line and show them that you have what it takes to get the job done. You can focus on the years of experience you have to offer. You can let them know that by hiring you the company will not have to spend extra money on training because you already have the knowledge, skills and ablilty to do the job. Lying only leads to more lying. Don't do it; your experience can speak for itself. Good luck

What about the vast number of people who are hired to adequately hit their mark and say their lines?

A "bigger, better, faster, more!!" resume seems out of place with what is expected.

Man, just stick to facts. The lies or non- truths will come back to haunt you sooner than later. And then what... your reputation will be in tatters... at least around people who live around you. Or do you want to bury your head in sand and live like an ostrich / hermit?

Create a functional resume and write up your successful accomplishments. Naturally, your true brilliance will come through at interviews. Show them and get credit for who you are, and not who you are not.

You will love being yourself. Someone said that starting to lie has a snowball effect. You got to cover the first lie with another and another and another till you reach a stage that you forget what the original lie was all about.

Don't fall into that trap. Numerous examples surround us in the news and look at the price the people who lie will pay. Is it worth it?

My brother was a baseball player, both high school and legion summer ball.

He did listen to his older brother, as well as his father and retired after 20 in the Wisconsin National Guard (my advice) and now works for on the production line at a crane manufacturer (dad's wisdom).

Me? I'll likely be carried feet-first outta some data center or the other.

I could not agree more. In my opinion, employers who advertise that they are looking for everything plus the kitchen sink, really don't have a clue what the actual job entails, or in some cases, there is no job at all and they are just putting out 'feelers'. Why do companies do this and is it really fair to employees looking for work?

Without reading through all of the replies while at work (although I plan to tonight at home), I don't know whether anyone else has brought up either of these two problems.

One is the case of headhunters and other reps who falsify a resume on behalf of a candidate in order to get an interview. There are agents who routinely do this sort of thing. I've been in the painful position of having to ask an interviewer whether I could look at the resume from which he was working, only to then point out several items on the resume which were blantantly false. Not surprisingly, the interviewer assumed I was the one who had falsified my qualifications to the headhunter, which reputation followed me around for some time. The headhunter had insisted on 'formatting' the resume to make it more readable for his clients. The lesson of which is, don't ever, ever, ever allow someone to send a resume out on your behalf without an ironclad agreement that you get to review any modifications of any sort before it is sent out.

The second problem is that many people falsify one critical part of their resume, the past salary. This is apparently so common that many recruiters assume that whatever you put on the resume is in fact your 'dream salary' rather than the truth, and so expect you to eagerly accept a lower amount. When this happens and you try to tell the recruiter that you are less than enthused with taking a cut in pay from your current or former pay, they again assume you are lying to drive up the price.

In both cases the lies told by others end up making the honest people look like liers.

How badly do you feel when someone you trusted lied to you? How important is your credibility to you? I beleive that no lie is worthwhile no matter the gain. "Getting caught in a lie - even little one -- will destroy your credibility." If I were your new hiring employer and found you lied to me I would terminate you. If I couldn't do that, how far do you think you would get in the organization anyway? To me, it is not what you know -- it is what you are made of.

I like behavioural questions. Gives you a chance to see them thinking on their feet, not rehashing scripted stuff. I think it actually gives the less polished people a chance.

But I hate panels. I have occasionally had my boss or someone from HR sit in on the interview to provide a second opinion, but panels are so formal, I don't feel you can actually have the candidate relax, and therefore you dont get to know them.

James

I had someone try to trick me with cleverly worded technical questions, I managed to see right through them. Didn't like the guy, but I took the job knowing he wasn't the boss, but a peer of the boss. A few years later he left and came back as a contractor. I ended up having him work for me, and it fell to me to fire him. Its a small world after all, and first impressions do stick.

James

and presumably a better one, is it enough to say, I did my job adequately? Probably not.

We all have accomplishements. It can be making some stubborn clients happy. It could be making something simpler, or making a good suggestion which gets followed up. Anything that shows you go beyond the bare minimum.

I have been in those support roles, for years(some years ago). And I could have found the things to put in the resume.

James

I can only assume you are being sarcastic. Please tell us that you are not actually encouraging this guy to lie just to get a job. What does that tell us about your own morals?

I remember seeing ads in 1997 requiring 10yrs VB/SQL Server and 5 years of Java. Neither of these requirements were possible at the time. I wondered about this for years but discovered the answer just recently. I observed one of my corporate customers writing a extremely demanding ad for a position that was already filled (and had been for years). Many companies have H1-B Visa workers filling these positions. They have to demonstrate to INS that they try on a regular basis to find American workers before the Visa can be extended or renewed. So they place ridiculous ads that are intended to scare off applicants. Also, larger employers run these ads so that they can tell Congress that they are unable to fill these positions with Americans in an attempt to get Congress to raise the cap on the number of Visa's allowed per year. So there is a good chance the job he is thinking about lying to get is a lie itself. Another possiblity is that HR are morons. I remember seeing ads requiring 5yrs "Post Grass" (Postgress).

I was Director of Ops at a small ISP (approx 8000 customers) and I did the hiring of our techs, a plus on my side was that I had been a tech for 2 years and before that built computers for 4 years for another company, before moving to the ISP, and up to Dir. so I also did the training of the people I hired. I had no script and I would include at some point the other techs in the interview process and let them ask questions to see if the applicant would fit in with the group. Also I would put them in front of a computer station and ask them to do something, whatever came to mind at the moment. That was a real test of ability no matter degree, certification, or whatever they claimed to have.

Now that I am laid off, I have thought of 'embelishing' my resume because of the dozens of interviews I have been to in the last 6 months I found that the interviewer really didn't know much about IT. I would answer questions and looked to be talking way over they're head. The only thing they would end with is 'do you have any certifications?' yes, I do, but my real world experience goes way beyond any cert I have at the moment. It's tough out there competing with kids that went through alot of 'cram' cert programs which looks good, but have no real world experience...which is hard to demonstrate while sitting in a cushy seat in the HR office.

there ya go, my first vent!
Jeff
IT guy

No one stated that governments confer degrees, but typically they grant via legislation the POWER to confer to degrees. This is the situation for most of the developed world, but perhaps not the US.

Because this power is grated by the government, it is a criminal offence to falsify these records.

Post 9/11 almost all companies do detailed background investigations on even the lowest level employee. They will find out about your lie regarding degree and they WILL fire you when they find out. I wouldn't do it.

You probably wouldn't get away with it for long as it would come out, maybe as early as during a good in-depth interview. It may come out and get you fired in the future when you were otherwise successful and happy in the position, or even far in the future in a completely different job. I'm so disappointed that so many people said to go ahead and do it. Even if you did get away with it, what would you think of yourself? Others can take almost everything away from you. The only thing they can't take away is your own honor, integrity, and self respect - those you have to give away yourself and they are more important than you could possibly imagine. You must be pretty young and immature to even ask such a question, or I'm getting too old and times have really changed in IT.

Most hits = most likely apparently.
Fair that's the weather whan it's not raining, not a concept in business I can assure you.
Makes you laugh some of the lists they put out, 16 wildly different skills, suitable for recent graduate, f'wits, ignore them.

There was one bunch of gits farming cvs with 'pretend jobs' and then using the contact details to spam with offers.
Ethics of a starving rat some people.

it is not a lie that will get you fired, since you are not adding qualifications, you are omitting irrelevant ones.

As I put it before, what person interviewing for an IT job is going to be concerned that I lied, if I don't put down the fact that I am a chef?

where is the relevance between being a chef or being a network admin / programmer/ website designer....

where employees having a degree is as necessary as a cert.
This guy lied to get an interview, very different to lying to get a job.
Know where he's coming from, but I've been fortunate enough not to have to do that up to press.

That sort of ad is a regular, how about 3 years experience in Delphi 2005. You've got to guess typo, I mean no one could be that stupid could they ?

would indicate the last possibility is the correct one.
My all time favourite was Customer Support Specialist ?15 - ?45k. They sent me the spec, ranged from see lightning and hear thunder to can create planet with weather system in less than a week.

It doesn't justify you lying on your resume.
It may gall you that the company you're applying to outsources some of their work and doesn't give a hoot about the service they get there, but you're not applying for a job in one of those countries.
You want to start a thread on outsourcing, I'd love to join in but don't use it for justifying why it's okay for you to do something wrong.

Look, if the people doing the hiring feel that certain certifications and degrees are necessary to do the job and you do not posses these qualifications, the you are not qualified - end of story. For some managers, papers and degrees hold a lot of weight, and those managers will be incredibly disappointed when they discover the truth. Managers that are inflexible with their requirements are short-sighted anyhow. Perhaps these are not the people you should be working for!

If you are self taught, have a passion for technology and can "hold your own," as you say, someone will pick up on that and offer you the job. You need to sell the skills you HAVE not the ones you don't.

As a manager of IT myself, I can tell you that there are MANY factors that contribute to a person's success. If someone doesn't meet all of the requirements but has a desire to improve, I give them serious consideration. Sometimes, less qualified candidates are awarded the job because they posses a drive that the qualified candidates seemed to have lost along the way. I am not the only manager out there that thinks this way. It just takes time and a lot of patience, and tons of persistence on your part.

So please, put your best foot forward and do not feel the need to falsify information. If you remember anything, please remember this: If you want to have a successful career in IT, honesty is ONE quality you can't afford to be without.

SOUTH BEND, Ind. (AP) -- George O'Leary resigned as Notre Dame football coach five days after being hired, admitting he lied about his academic and athletic background.

O'Leary claimed to have a master's degree in education and to have played college football for three years, but checks into his background showed it wasn't true.

"Due to a selfish and thoughtless act many years ago, I have personally embarrassed Notre Dame, its alumni and fans," O'Leary said in a statement released Friday by the university.

A biography released by Notre Dame on Sunday when it announced his hiring said O'Leary received a master's degree from New York University in 1972. O'Leary was a student there but did not receive a degree, said John Beckman, assistant vice president for public affairs at NYU.

O'Leary, 55, also never earned a letter playing football at New Hampshire even though his biography says he earned three. In fact, the school said he never played in a game.

LINK:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/college/news/2001/12/14/oleary_notredame/

Had to sack a guy a few months ago for 'inconsistencies' on his CV. This in its self is not good for the CV. He did ask for a reference which I gave stating that he had worked for us for six months. This caused his new employers to call me for more details.

He now works as a bouncer

Now here's a true story (Seriously, not actually stretching the truth here!)

One of my friends finished Uni and was looking for a job. He noticed his CV was a bit sparse, and decided to fill it out a bit with supposed experiences and hobbies etc.

Where he fell down was the point where he wrote that he came third in the UK Tiddlywinks championships! He thought it was such a stupid, random thing to put on his CV, that it would just take up some space, and make it look like he had "varied" interests...

He got questioned on the Tiddlywinks topic in the interview, since it turned out, the Interviewer was actually the current UK Tiddlywinks champion, and knew that he'd been "stretching the truth"!

They then spoke about what else he may have elaborated on, and because of his inventiveness, and sense of humour, the guy got the job!

So, I don't know, it could be seen as a good or a bad thing to lie on your CV... Although I would not lie about anything as important (or traceable) as degrees and accreditations...

One candidate (years ago) claimed to have extensive experience with "dose." As we were trying to figure out what he was referring to, it hit us when he mentioned somthing about "dose" 6.2, he was talking about DOS 6.2. Ok, so he has a computer and can read the DOS prompt startup message. "Thank you. Don't call us, we'll call you."

Another one was talking about his "extensive" experience working with a "gwee." Huh? What's a "gwee?" Excuse me sir, would you mind spelling out "gwee?" "Oh sure: G-U-I" (ok... NEXT!)

If you're going to BS your way in, be sure to pronouce your acronyms correctly and know what they mean.

Could go a long way toward explaining some of the ads I've seen recently.

I just found an old resume I used to use, wherein I had stripped out everything except verbs and adjectives. It printed in Courier 10.

Those were the days!!

... about every 6 months or so. Never an actual position open, just the HR "professional" seems to feel she has to do it.

"If I see further than other men, it is because I stand upon the shoulders of giants."

--Sir Isaac Newton

(.. and its corrolary: No matter where you are, you had a lot of help getting there.)

I see your point and agree that lessons are learned from mistakes, but why head down a road that you already know is going to lead you nowhere? Even if he got past the screeners and was smart enough to fool the interviewer, he is going to be found out sooner or later.

From what I have read in this thread, it sounds like there are more issues with this guy than his lack of degrees or certs. As one person here said, sounds like panic has set in and he is getting desperate. Desperate times do not always call for desperate measures. Just a thought...

There's no reason to fabricate experience, you can just elaborate and make your own experience a little more appealing in the way it is presented.

Firtly, always research the companies you apply for; that's why anonymous, web based job boards are a waste most of the time.

Once you find out what they need, elaborate on what you can offer and focus intently on the skills you can bring to the table that others may not.

You can sugar coat and sensationalize without needing to actually lie about anything.

Ever seen a website that appears to be a large, established corporation when in reality it's a ma and pa operation from the basement?

Most of your ocmpetition will have little or no resume writing skills, or sales ability. Write a catchy resume focused on each specific jobtype, customize your cover letter to fit each company you apply for and sell yourself. It works 100% of the time.

I wonder if silvioandopauly DID lie on the resume...

Do you want a bad reputation in the market place or not? I don't have formal qualifications, but have still managed to prove myself, land the jobs and remain employed over the years. I constantly have to battle with people who are full of jargon and techspeak, but I can still get the job done by being ordinary and capable. So you either lie and become a fool, or you invest time actually training, or you are an old fart like me and have experience doing things. Good luck with your job hunting. I hope you get something shortly.