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What is the BEST.............................

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by --loki-- 1 view

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What is the BEST (in your opinion) hardware configuration for a stable computer that will work just as well for home or office applications, and will support both Windoze and Linux OS's, as well as not being too cost-prohibitive to build/market to small businesses and home users?

Yes, I know that is a LOT of criteria to fill... lol... I am looking to find a good multipurpose configuration that I can use to order parts in some quantity and simplify configuration by being familiar with the hardware, rather than just buying whatever's new or hot at the moment, but that can also be upgraded for users who want a more custom setup...

I've been out of the computer building loop for about 2 years, so I'm not up to date on what the current best hardware is.... Thus my question....

Soooooooooooo... You tell me!

21 replies

by hal 9000

If they are 32 Bit or 64 Bit. For 32 Bit I would recommend something along the lines of an Intel 775 Socket M'Board and suitable CPU could start out with a Celeron and work up to a Dual Core with HTT.

For 64 Bit however you have to go with AMD as all the Nixes are written for the AMD architecture at the moment so they will work better.

However this is where things start to get nasty previously it was Intel who had different sockets for CPU's but now AMD has several currently on the go for different CPU's they start off with the 757 then the 939 Pin and then go to the AM2 and 940 & finally the F Socket. So you would have to look closely at what you want to offer here and chose accordingly. Though to be fair the AM2 is the newest one currently in use so that may be your better option for long term use though it will limit the available CPU's that you can use. Also when AMD finished their ATI buying they are talking about introducing a new socket called maybe the AM3 which will them put AMD on a level playing field with Intel and they will be providing both CPU and Chip Sets for the M'Boards as well as making their own.

Col

by hal 9000

SUSE 10 and possibly Red Hat Enterprise are one of the few Destro's that have very good Intel Support. Mainly because they support these CPU's in Industry.

Most of the other Destro's where writing code for the then available to the [b]Geek[/b] which involved AMD 64 Bit Architecture, :p

Col

by jmgarvin

I'd suggest:

AMD Semperon 3000+ w/ mobo
1gb RAM
SATA HDD

Make sure to get a decent case and a big enough HDD (120mbs are pretty cheap).

Check tigerdirect.com or newegg.com for good prices.

Good luck!

by --loki--

I plan on selling a basic system for about 500 with a linux OS, or 600 with Windoze... At least that is what I used to sell them for, but again, I still have to get up to date on current hardware prices...

That would be an all-in-one type motherboard, and a 17" crt monitor, then the price goes up if I added upgrades such as video or sound or a flat panel monitor...

Does that sound about right? Or am I priced too low/high? I did this for six years when I lived in Arizona, but like I mentioned, since moving to Georgia two years ago, I have been out of the loop, and am just starting to rebuild my business, soooooooooo...

Can you recommend a good motherboard that will play nice with both linux AND windoze? As far as all-in-one's go, I've had decent results playing around with e-machines and such on some of my friends systems, but my own linux systems have been all built from scratch instead of all-in-ones... And since linux is what I'm going to primarily offer, with windoze costing extra, I need to make sure that the hardware is supported, but not too high-priced for my target market, which is primarily home offices, small businesses, and home users who want a cheap internet/network ready system that will also accomplish office tasks, with minimum security and stability issues.

by jaqui

I have used most major brands of motherboard, from one end to the other with linux.
every motherboard company fully supports windows with drivers.

To offer linux systems, stick with hardware that has been on the market for a minimum of 6 months, so that the open source community has had an opportunity to develop drivers for the hardware.
by going with Intel, that isn't an issue, snce Intel actually creates linux drivers, open source ones at that, for their new hardware and chipsets. AMD has also started supporting linux with drivers, and has been supporting the open source world. AMd has not been in the business of hardware other than the cpus until now, so they have been the focus of the open source effort for drivers, since the AMD systems don't come with linux drivers. This will most likely change when AMD starts producing their own boards, then the open source community will be freed to do more bugfixing in the existing low level code base. They have been concentrating on newer hardware and critical bugs, leaving bugs with little impact alone until the time is available to fix.

by willcomp

Since you are in the Atlanta area, I recommend you first identify local distributors and see what lines they carry. There's a significant savings for depot pickup versus shipping.

Some general recommendations for a budget PC:

Socket AM2 uATX mobo with nVidia GeForce 6100 chipset and a Sempron 64 2800+ CPU (about $110 total) or a Socket 775 uATX mobo with Intel 865 chipset and a 2.8 GHz Celeron D CPU (about $110 total).

Decent quality uATX case with power supply such as Apex or Foxconn (about $40.00).

DVD burner, floppy drive, 80 GB (minimum) HDD, 512 MB RAM.

With the small differential between combo drives (CD-RW/DVD ROM) and DVD burners, I just use the DVD burners. A DVD drive is recommended for installing Vista and it'll be here soon.

RAM is pricey now. Happens every year about this time. Should drop back in a month or so after pre-Christmas PCs are built.

May be hard to find a good supplier of inexpensive CRTs. Many smaller distributors now stock LCDs exclusively.

Also, Vista release may be a good time to push "Vista Capable" PCs. Aero Glass needs a decent video adapter and 1 GB RAM to run well. A CPU in the 3 GHz range (3000+ for AMD) will run Vista well.

I have Vista RC1 on a Sempron 2800+, 1 GB RAM, and a 128 MB FX5200 video card. Performance is decent.

by --loki--

Thank you for your recommendations.... do you know if the boards and video you recommended will support linux easily?

I have a few vendors in mind here locally, that were recommended by someone who used to do what I do, which is both computer support and graphic design, but now he's gone exclusively into graphic design (said he got tired of friends and family wanting free tech support... lol... I'm sure we all know how frustrating that can get, especially if it starts taking time away from actual business)

So I have a few places now to check out as far as prices and as far as their product availability and RMA policies, etc... I may end up continuing to use the same vendor I used in AZ, depending on what I find out, since my AZ vendor also ships in the US, and I already have a good working relationship with them established, and have found that few can beat their resale list prices.... And I still have a valid reseller's license on file with them, but I need to get one for here in GA soon, before I start generating any serious income... Although if I did use them, I would still need to check out the local suppliers for emergency/rush parts.....

Hmmm.. I forgot how much there was to think about when I started out 8 years ago, partly because I eased into the business previously, managing a puter shop part time, and building my own business on the side... Now I'm jumping head-first into it, and have no initial inventory OR clients to speak of... lol....

Along the lines of recommendations.... Does anyone have a preference in linux flavors as far as ease of use for either small businesses or home users? I tend to use SUSE, as it seems to me to be both stable and easily configurable with YAST, and seems to support any hardware I throw at it, as well as having a nice user friendly interface that I've tested against some of my friends who were nearly entirely computer illiterate or who were windoze junkies.... But I'd like to get other opinions, if there's a flavor out there that would be more suitable to my target market...

Thanks for all your ideas so far! (and don't mind me rambling... lol... I'm just thinking out loud as I go along)

by kiltie

I've been testing out a few dozen of the LiveCD distros, mainly because I don't have to dedicate a HD until I chose one, and found some good ones.

My main angle on this, is that I am looking for a Linux distro that I can persuade an ordinary non-techie Windows user to try. So I have been concentrating on the Desktop versions. It has to look and feel like Windows as much as possible, so to make it comfortable to this type of user. They don't want to be thrown into a completely unfamiliar operating system, and certainly don't want to learn Linux (well.... not yet), but wouldn't mind seeing what it can do. So it has to be simple to use, no learning curve, just plug it in and play with it, no installing options either, please.

Difficult constraints, but some of them fit the bill (no pun) quite well. None better than about 85% so far. Some are getting close, but in my view, are a year or so away from the ideal.

Try testing some out, many good ones are in FrozenTech's LiveCD List

http://tinyurl.com/jhp9y

I have been mainly looking at the smaller size distros so far, but have now started on some of the larger ones (max 700MB - one CD).

So far Puppy comes out on top, Knoppix 2nd, but recently some of the larger ones are looking good, Ubuntu 6.06 did well,...... but I am still testing (VectorLinux 5.1 is the latest under my microscope).

Hope that helps with the Linux question, have a happy time downloading and testing a few. A few years ago, Linux Desktop was out of the question, but now.... some of these guys are almost there, well worth a look at.

Can't help with the hardware options sorry, I am a systems guy, can't help with supplies either, I live in Scotland.

Question: Is your target customer a current windows user - upgrading his machine, that you hope to persuade to Linux, if not you will supply M$ if asked, or is the customer brand new to the market (hence not contaminated by Windows)?

by willcomp

I've booted knoppix on both type boards and it runs without problems. Recognizes hardware.

In my situation, shipping is necessary (rural small town and no distributors within 300 miles). You should be able to save quite a bit on shipping costs, especially if you go with CRT monitors. There are several mid-tier distributors in the Atlanta area, mostly on north side around Marietta and Norcross.

One that I have used is Eastern Data Inc.

https://www.edi-atl.com/

by roger99a

You have to be careful with Linux and hardware. Don't assume it will work, or work easily. Intel has a list of motherboards and Linux distros that do work together at http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/reseller/asmo-na/eng/products/linux/feature/279817.htm
And they provide some drivers for linux. I couldn't find anything similar from MSI or Gigabyte. Do your homework before purchasing.

SUSE has a hardware compatability list but it doesn't look up to date.

For a distribution take a look at Ubuntu. One of the guys at work uses it and likes it. I use CentOS, which is Red Hat rebranded, but I just build servers.

by zlitocook

Will hate this but,,, Dell offers great deals for soho and it is a complete package. For around $600 to $800 you get the CPU, flat screen 17" and the O/S and if you watch the deals you could even get a printer or scanner. One year onsite repair or for a little more three years. If you put the repair cost into the equation it is a great deal.

If you think about the startup cost and the part stocking you will need. And the onsite repair, how long will it take for you or a contractor to get there. If you have allot of money and time it might be worth it but with a company behind you it will cost allot less and more free time.

by hal 9000

You'll have no need for that 3 Year Extended Warranty.

However in the case of all things non commercial Dell you are bound to need the repair service. Even Compaq has got really bad recently with a 14 month old NB that a customer of mine had dieing with a 12 month guarantee on it. I can see that these things are only supposed to last as long as the Guarantee Period and then break down and be so expensive to repair that you buy a new one.

Silly me I keep building machines out of good hardware and remove them from service after the Tax Cycle has made then useless to the business that I service. After trashing the HDD and refitting a replacements one those that don't get kept as [b]Project[/b] units generally get sold off at a similar price to their original cost. Or if I break them up & sell them on E Bay they bring in far more than the original cost.

I find that I factor in 1 service call to fix up what they mess up initially with new OS's that they are unfamiliar with and then I don't need to return except for routine maintenance which I charge for. Every one of my customers retains their HDD so a Guarantee is unimportant to them Data Security is very important to them though and they pay to have the platters destroyed. The rest of the drives I donate to a local Data Recovery House just in case they can use any of the stuff and they are thankful for the donations. Apparently HDD minus Platters are very useful to them and I don't have to pay to dispose of them.

Col

by zlitocook

But the companies here more name driven. I was a contractor and reseller for MS for a few years and lost more then I made because of updates and needing new equipment or hardware that was not expected. But I put back enough to have fun with.
It was my fault because I am not a good business person. I like to give the customer more then they expect and allot of other just do the bare minimum to get by.
Now I just manage the network and sit back.

by --loki--

And I only keep a very small inventory... lol... I'm not a major business, by any means... I have a few clients right now, and hope to expand to about 20 regular clients and maybe about 30 "here-and-there" type clients.... This doesnt just encompass computer building, but also my graphic design, business document creation, small databases, etc... Ideally, I'd sell about 4 computers a month, and when I build and configure them.... I've not had more than 1 service call out of every 16 built, and that's usually user-caused... The most I get as far as support calls, are "how do I do such-and-such" type calls....

The onsite repair that I do, is usually on a person's pre-existing computer that they want repaired or upgraded... And I get paid a lot more to do that working for myself than I would working for a company...

Not to mention, I get to do things MY way... lol... Which to me, means taking care of the customer right the first time, so that they are happy with my work...In the six years I was in business in arizona... I didn't have to advertise once... happy customers mean referrals and more business in the future...

I don't have a startup cost, per se.... I have a small inventory of new and used parts which I've collected gradually, or are left over from my business in arizona... The only costs are printing business cards and flyers... lol... My first sale pays for parts for the next computer, etc etc...

And I have much more free time than working for any company... which is good for me, being partially disabled and unable to hold a regular 8-5 job...

The down side? No health insurance.. .lol... Oh well...

by hal 9000

I have to ring their Tech Support for a problem that I've run into on a single workstation for a small business. The thing worked perfectly for several years and at the beginning of this year the guy who worked from home died.

At the wake I was called into disconnect the ADSL Modem and install a Dial Up just so they could pickup any E-Mail and the like left over from the business. I organized a $5.50 a month Dial Up Net Access plan for them and left it at that. I'm also supporting this unit for nothing as a favor for the next few years till the Tax records are no longer needed and then it can be terminated. Just how hard can it be visit the place every couple of months run AV Updates and walk out should be easy and fast. [b]WRONG![/b]

Last night I got a call telling me that the computer was frozen when I got there I found that upon booting you got a lovely notice on the bottom of the screen telling you that there was a Pirate Copy of Windows Installed and there is no way into the system. This was the original XP Pro and has accepted SP1 & 2 as well as WGA without a problem but because they are spending so little time On Line 35 Minutes a couple of months ago and that was probably me updating the AV product. I was asked why the Web Pages took so long to open so I turned off Live Update now 2 months or so latter you can not get in to turn on Live Update. As they are only using the machine On Line for a few minutes at a time I didn't think that Live Update was necessary as it was slowing things down way to much and being wasted.

Currently I really don't trust myself to be nice to the Head Tech at MS AU so I'm leaving it till I feel better. Silly boy should never have given me his direct phone number. :D

But I need a solution for this one which doesn't involve constantly downloading Windows & Office Updates as they simply are not currently required and are wasting their time & limited money at the moment.

You just have to love MS when something as simple as turning off the Live Update Option causes this problem.

Col

by --loki--

I've used Suse for about 3 years now, on a variety of hardware, and I like the interface as well as the flexibility, and it is very user friendly, even for the technically challenged... I can't say I was thrilled with Red Hat, although it is touted as the best for business stuff, I think Suse is the best for what I'm trying to accomplish...

by hal 9000

I've used both Red Hat Enterprise and SUSE and I much prefer SUSE over RHE.

I will not even start on FC as I find it poor and lacking in most areas. Personally I think that SUSE currently is the best business application available for the desktop and while my personal favorite Nix will always be Debian it's not entirely satiable for the average end user who has little to no knowledge of how to use a computer. It's really much more for the Advanced User who you generally speaking wouldn't be targeting.

Sorry I can't help you out with All in 1 M'Boards as I never use them mainly because I need reliability and I don't cater to the lower end of the market. Just about every system that I build is for business where reliability is far more important than price. Though Price plays a part even here but generally speaking most business don't mind spending the extra money as it brings them greater Tax Breaks during the life of the computers.

Col

by --loki--

I am targeting both, actually... Small businesses as they grow, generally want to network their offices, and would need a stable server that doesn't need to be rebooted every other day to apply patches and updates, and I can easily sell a linux based server in that environment, with Samba for file sharing with their existing windoze environments... rather than having them pay extra for one of the M$ server OS's...

And... with even major department stores such as Wal-mart selling out-of-the-box linux based systems, more new computer users are making a choice to try it out... however, with the major department stores... they don't get software support nearly as easily as my small business provides support to my customers... so that's an advantage there... and they can always downgrade to windoze if they decide they aren't comfortable with it... but the beauty of a newbie computer user, is they learn to be comfortable with what they're exposed to first... for example.. I learned puter programming in BASIC first.. and then learned Mac OS as my first gui.... sooooo... I tend to be comfortable with the command line and with how a Mac thinks, with Windoze and linux being like secondary languages... Ok.. now I'm rambling... lol.. sorry...

by --loki--

That is how I generally do business! I go above and beyond to make sure I have happy customers who brag on my service to others...

When they tell other people how happy they are with what I did for them, then those other people often become new customers....

When some vendors I used to know would just install an OS and proclaim it ready to go, I make sure all the little things are installed and configured... all the media players, browser plugins, antivirus, office suite, etc....

When doing a re-install of a corrupted OS, I take the time to list all the software they previously had... to note where their documents and data are... to try and even note how they had their desktop set up.... And I make sure to reinstall and reconfigure their system using that information, so that they get as close as possible to how they are used to using their system.............. As opposed, for example, one recent client, who 6 months prior had a hard drive crash... the previous tech simply threw the entire contents of the drive onto another partition, installed a new OS on the first partition, and left the user to sort out all their data and applications... without even replacing the drive that was obviously failing... So six months later, well.. .the OS won't boot... a diagnostic showed it was introducing errors and losing data every time it tried to read the data... all of which could have been avoided if the previous tech had simply done a GOOD job...

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