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?wonderful opportunities?

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by ed woychowsky 4 views

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Is it just me, or are headhunters, er, career placement specialists geographically challenged? Let me give an example, I live in Easton Pennsylvania, which is right along the Delaware River within walking distance of New Jersey. I consistently receive e-mails and telephone calls with opportunities in ?my area? for places like Atlanta Georgia, Santa Clara California, Seattle Washington and Pittsburg Pennsylvania.

When questioned the response usually goes along the lines of ?it?s wonderful opportunities?, except for the Pittsburg ones which are along the lines of ?It?s in the same state, it can?t be that far.? I?m sorry, but 600 miles round trip is a bit much for a daily commute. From there the conversation moves on to the subject of relocation. Maybe it?s me, but uprooting the kids and relocating across the country for a four-month ?wonderful opportunity? is bordering on insane.

I?d like to know if anyone else has encountered this issue.

124 replies

by tig2

I get contacted about "fabulous carreer moves" in L.A., New York, GA, etc pretty much daily. They have gone so far as to suggest that I build in the cost to fly in and out into my rate.

The best was an opportunity (3 months) in Anchorage... during the winter. While cold doesn't scare me- I live in MN- I draw the line at Anchorage.

And what they don't consider is that instant relocation is not an option. If I could get no other position, perhaps that would change. But there is work in the state I live in.

Corollary- Is it just me or does it seem like career placement has been outsourced to India???

by ed woychowsky

Yeah, I noticed that too. On the plus side, they do offer to help me with getting a green card. Very useful if Pennsylvania ever succeeds from the union.

by tig2

But assistance with H1B!

Sheesh! What is up with all this?

While we are on topic, are you finding "career placement specialists" are more pushy these days???

by tig2

But it is also WAY too far to drive! It is also, for some reason, snowy-er (assuming that is a word). I have a friend in Juno who tells me that it SEEMS colder there than here.

Either way, the commute would be tough!

by mjd420nova

Anchorage isn't that cold, not compared to Minnesota anyway. I grew up in Minneapolis and left in 1968. After spending 5 years in Hawaii, I refused to return in September, settled in California. Couldn't see ever going back there to live. Even my parents left after one really harsh winter they decided in March that they were survivors and moved out. However, I would never gone to work for a month in Prudhoe Bay had I not spent time in the great state of MINNESOTA. Perspective. After spending that month on the north slope, in minus 55 degrees, I was told by a cab driver in Anchorage that standing at the curb in a T-shirt with the snow coming down "You'll catch a cold" I explained that I hadn't caught one yet and it was 80 degrees warmer there than where I'd come from.
Good Luck

by tig2

I can't imagine living anywhere else. I know- crazy.

I'm FROM So Cal. Most of my family lives there. I refuse to.

Alaska is a place I wouldn't mind visiting but my home is here. Besides, you can't beat the Fall colour in Duluth!

by onbliss

"You'll catch a cold"

Is that a myth or really a fact. Even in India, when grannies and mommies warned children to not roam around bare bodied when the temperatures dipped.

by pgm554

You want bad weather ,try Erie or Buffalo.

I did a one year gig in Erie and never again(well, money can make a difference,but it's got to be a lot).

Winter starts in October and ends in May.
They have a nasty little weather thing "called "lake effect snow".

I remember a ThanksGiving weekend of 36 inches of snow and the folks up there not even batting an eye.

I can remember sitting in my hotel room overlooking the lake on my birthday getting stoned on Dom Perignon and watching the "bands" of snow come off the lake.

These folks get 150 to 160 inches of snow a year and things like 25 vehicle pileups on I90 at 2 PM are not uncommon because of "white outs".

Top off the bad weather with lousy restaurants(nothing but strip mall chains for the most part)
and you have the TRUE mistake by the lake(sorry Cleveland).

All though ,I must agree that Minnesota is quite bad.

I was there for a week in 1973 and Minneapolis in August is a strange place ,95 degrees and 95% humidiy one day and 54 degrees and raining the next(throw in about a million mosquitos)and yes,Minnestoa is quite bad.

I can see why you left and let's face it,the weather in the bay area ain't bad (I live across the bay in Woodside/Redwood City)and according to the RedWood City sign,the best weather in the US according to the US geological survey.

Now, if we could get rid of the earthquakes.

by too old for it

I recently got a call from a Phoenix firm, whose rep was located in Costa Rica, for a job in Central Ohio.

What the heck, all the good jobs got outsourced to India a while ago ...

by tony hopkinson

inflexible.
Sometimes it isn't even a matter of choice. The only way I could take the job, is if my mum lived nearby and she offered to put me up and feed me. The salary would be a joke even if I was still wet behind the ears.

by why me worry?

because from what I see, they are using the same annoying sales tactics to try to lure is into sending them our resumes without any clear cut explanation of the job, what it entails, what it pays, and how our skills are relevant to the position. There are some pretty good and reputable recruiters out there, but lately, I have been flooded by what I call "bottom feeders" whose jobs are to troll the online job search sites for positions that match a certain set of keywords and then blast a single email with 200 cc: entries in it. I once got such an email from some idiot recruiter that included a cc: list of every other recipient they are sending to, including a bcc: of the idiot headhunter's manager. One idiot recipient does a reply to all with his resume, basically blasting his personal information to over 100 other people who may be interested in this position. Being the New Yorker that I am with my "polite" attitude, I do a reply to all and basically chew out the recruiter and any other idiot recipient who doesn't understand the repercussions of using the "reply to all" button. I tell the recruiter and the dumbass who replied to all with his resume that their lack of professionalism and knowledge in simple IT shows in their inability to send a simple email without resorting to spamming tactics. I got a few good laughs and complimentary responses from other recipients who also did not appreciate to have their email addresses blasted to 199 other strangers. This stuff just never ends.

by ncsercs

from them all the time. Their use of English is terrible and I don't even bother with them. They're the paint on the outside of the bottom of the barrel.

by tony hopkinson

I got offered a job in Leicester, showed some interest as I have mates in that city.
Turned out to be a converted barn in some one shop village, nine miles out of town.
It was in Leicestershire though, I'll give him that.

Public transport was four times a day leaving you with a two and half mile walk over assorted cowflop to get to work. But it was an unmissable opportunity.

What about the unmissable opportunities to take a 50% cut in salary, relocate somewhere five times more expensive, so you get get some good experience. Twenty years isn't enough apparently.

Not just geographically challenged these people, numerically as well.

by tig2

The "unmissable opportunity" to do something at half pay, longer commute, in a position more junior to the one you hold today?

I got one that needed an Admin Assistant who "knew computers". I advised that person that I had that job about 15 years ago and wasn't interested in going backward. I was told that they would be willing to CALL me a PM.

*sigh*

by ed woychowsky

Never got offered a job in a converted barn, but I did work in a building where deer would wander into when somebody forgot to close the door.

In the United States, outside of the big cities public transportation is usually non-existent. When it does exist the cost is way up there, of course that doesn?t mean that the money offered is way up there too. I actually figured it out for one ?wonderful opportunity?. I would have had to work for three to four days to pay my commuting costs. When I remarked upon this the reply was that they offered breakfast, lunch and dinner. I often wonder if the position also required one to be chained to an oar.

by too old for it

Gee, I've been at this 18 years, and was a professional paralegal before that.

Um, NO! Pay the rate or move on.

by ed woychowsky

What was it that Scotty said? ?A good engineer always multiples their repair estimates by a factor of four. How else can you keep your reputation as a miracle worker??

My rates are sometimes dependent upon how uninterested I am in a position. For example, there was this contract in Maine during the winter where I bid really high. I met the guy that won the contract and we talked the summer after. He was from southern India and firmly convinced that the weather in Maine is comparable to the weather on Pluto.

by why me worry?

"GO F**K YOURSELF BECAUSE I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR OVER A DECADE AND IF YOUR JERKOFF CLIENT CANNOT APPRECIATE PROFESSIONAL QUALITY WORK AND IS UNWILLING TO PAY THE MAKET RATE, OR MY RATE, THEN THEY SHOULD LOOK ELSEWHERE FOR MEDIOCRE SERVICE"

END OF CONVERSATION!

by ed woychowsky

Yes, they really don?t know how to take no for an answer. It seems that if you say no today they?ll contact you for the same position in a week. Maybe there is a shortage for some skills, but to me it seems more like feeding time in the Velocirapter pen.

As for the help with green cards and H1Bs, it must be my last name. I can?t tell you how many times I?ve been complemented on my English. I can?t see what the problem is, Woychowsky, you say it like you spell it. Ooh, I just had a Barney Miller flashback.

by tig2

I don't have the last name thing but I have taken calls from people I seriously wanted to send a Funk and Wagnalls to!

While on the 3 Day on Day 1, my phone rang. I stepped off the trail to answer it. It was someone whose name sounded like a dozen consonants in search of a vowel. Started the conversation with, "You need to send me your resume."

Some days I am just not nice. I said, "No, I don't" and hung up. About 5 minutes later, he called back. Welcome to my voice mail! Only reason for having the phone was so I could stay in touch with my partner.

On Monday, I collected the voicemails and started returning calls. Turned out to be a role in Milwaukee. I don't consider the other side of Wisconsin "driving distance" from the Twin Cities.

Sheesh!

by secretgeekygirl

was someone whose name sounded like a dozen consonants in search of a vowel.

ROFLMAO!!

Next time they call, please ask them to say hello to the numpty who took my job... mine was outsourced to India. My company apparently felt that paying the billing companies a higher fee to get the bills on e-format, then sending them to someone in India, who would review them for errors (riiii-i-i-iiight) and e-send them BACK, would reduce the costs of billing review. Not sure how, but hope they got what they wanted! I've been out of work for quite a while now (we moved to another state, and there is NOTHING here - the moon has more job ops), so just started back to college last month to take more classes. Can't hurt, but still no point...

by arlyss

Agreed, Mr. Hopkinson. I have only watched "Friends" once (does that make me un-American? I should hope not) - and I hated it.

by jcitron

I've had a few calls too lately. One of them as for a position in Albany! Geez nothing like a 4 hour commute everyday. I very nicely told the lady that Albany was a bit far, but I don't think she understood the distance.

I've been complimented on my English too. Hmmm I'm not Hispanic, but people lately think that Citron is Cintron, which is Spanish! Dear old dad's family came from Russia in 1898 to New York City, not from Spain to San Juan, Puerto Rico!

John

by why me worry?

My last name sounds asian, "Zan", yet I too am from the former USSR, Odessa, Ukraine to be exact. I get offers for jobs that require fluence in "Mandarin or Cantonese Chinese" because they stupidly think I am Chinese based on my last name. I speak Russian and English, not Chinese or something else. Now had my last name been Zankovsky, then that would be a clear giveaway of my ethnicity, but I am sure some of these headhunter morons would think I am Polish or Czeck (sp?) and send me job offers in Krakow or Prague.

by wayoutinva

I have gotten calls from recruiters whom I could not even understand as their broken english was so bad as to not even be decipherable..those dont get a call back..or the ones who are shocked that I dont want to drive 2 hours 1 way to get to a job everyday or relocate for the opportunity...especially in and around Washington DC..are they getting that desperate to fill contracts in some areas...?

by tony hopkinson

Esapecially the bulk email boys.

I've had a couple for maintaining helicopters recently. Need to take engineer off my cv, I think it's confusing them.

by why me worry?

I don't know if they are trying to interest me in a job or sell me tandoori chicken because I can't understand a friggin word they are saying

by arlyss

...order the Tandoori chicken, and tell them you want it in less than 10 minutes. See what they say.

by onbliss

My family often drives to Northshore to see the fall color, and usually we get disappointed. Either we missed it by few weeks or the fall colors did not peak well that year (blame the weather). The best fall colors that I have seen so far was in Wisconsin driving to Apostle Islands.

by tig2

Probably the best colour and longest peak there is. With all the walking we still do, we have lots of opportunity to see the seasonal change. I know I have been stunned by the beauty right outside the window.

Right now, the last hatching of the blackbirds and finches are attacking my birdfeeders. These are the babies that may or may not have left the nest. You can tell they are baby birds because they are still fluffy feathered. My cats and I can spend hours watching these little featherheads!

But seeing the last hatchlings of the season means that it is time to trek north for the colour. I am already seeing the trees begin to turn. With the cold front this weekend, we'll start seeing more and more.

Try the trails around Snail Lake- a pleasant walk and getting prettier every day!

by ed woychowsky

Thanks TiggerTwo, now I want to go hiking. Not this weekend though, off Sterling Forest for the NY Ren Faire. In two weeks is the Pyrate (their spelling) weekend at the PA Ren Faire. So maybe I can fit it in between.

by ed woychowsky

I'm not a bad rower, unless it's whitewater rafting. Whenever I go whitewater rafting my wife needs to pluck me out of the rapids.

by tig2

And enjoy yourself enormously!

I worked the So Cal Ren Faire for about 10 years and have been a member of the SCA for close to 20. I understand the priority.

If you ever need an expert in 15th and 16th century costumming...

by techexec2

I read something a number of months ago (don't remember where) that offered a scientific explanation for cold weather colds. The short version is:

- The cold temperature causes capillaries to constrict in sensitive places like the ear, nose, and throat.

- Constricted capillaries reduce blood flow near the surface of the skin.

- Reduced blood flow reduces the effectiveness of the immune system to surface infections.

- Reduced immune system effectiveness enables a cold virus infection to take hold.

- Result: A cold.

So, Mom was right, even if she did not know exactly why.

P.S. Tigger used to be a nurse. Perhaps she can weigh in on this.

by tig2

Those are definitive points. Add this step to your equaision:

- Reduced immune system effectiveness enables a cold virus to take hold

- Increased exposure to cold virus occurs (many people coming to work/school/functions with a cold)

- Reduced immune system bombarded with rhinovirus (most common cold- transmitted through touch most commonly)

- Reduced immune system incapable of fighting onslaught

- Body is flooded with rhinovirus.

Washing hands more often and more completely, not allowing others to use your phone, not touching surfaces that are common to all will all help.

Oh- if you want to avoid the common cold efficiently, make sure that your own body has all it needs to perform adequately. Reasonable amounts of sleep, proper exercise and hydration, good diet- all will play a part.

Stay healthy!

by onbliss

I frequently get into some kind of respirator illness, where I just keep coughing for months. I had got it checked up, nothing bad. In one of these boughts, if I drink something cold, it just triggers my cough. There are certain smells as well. But a cold wind on my chest/face and a cold drink will surely start my coughing.

That's why when I go out to eat, I ask for warm glass of water instead of the water laiden with ice cubes. The waitresses usually kind of get stumped at this request.

by colonel panijk

Being exposed to cold (water, air, wind) will [b]not[/b] give you a cold. It's possible that cold is triggering some sort of chronic respiratory problem or reaction. It doesn't sound like asthma, which can also be triggered by cold air.

Please don't take offense, but as you hinted earlier that you came from India, I hope your doctor checked you out for TB. That can give you a chronic cough and be triggered by cold. If he didn't, I would suggest that you insist on a test.

by x-marcap

Lots of fun from Sept-end of Oct. We went last week see the swordsmen, Dirk Perfect and Guido...

Hilarious...

by why me worry?

These bottom feeding dumbasses email and call me about jobs that are completely irrelevant to my skillset or expertise. They email me positions about Cisco, Unix, or PC technicians, when it clearly states on my resume that I am a Wintel Server Engineer with Novell & Microsoft products expertise as well as some SAN equipment. Nowhere on my resume does it state that I am a Unix admin, a PC technician, or a Java programmer. These idiot headhunters should pick up an IT magazine and learn the difference between all of these terms before they go making asses of themselves. Also, how hard is it to lookup how far Albany, NY is from lower Westchester County, NY and realize that its a pain in the ass of a commute and that I have no interest in driving 3+ hours in each direction daily? I can go on and on with the stupidity I face on a daily basis with these recruiters, but I am sure we all deal with stupid people who are in jobs that are way out of their leagues.

by jmgarvin

I got a call to be an "Active Directory Integrator" (whatever that means). I'm a *nix guy that knows MS, but I wouldn't even think of taking on a large project like that.

I live in NEW Mexico and I constantly get asked if I need help getting a Visa....jeez.

What's with all the headhunters anyway?

by colonel panijk

[i]I live in NEW Mexico and I constantly get asked if I need help getting a Visa....jeez.[/i]

Yeah, most 'merkins are extremely geographically challenged. You don't need guys in India doing the recruiting to get crap like that. I hear stories all the time about New Mexicans being refused certain jobs "because they need U.S. citizenship", missing "foreign student" application deadlines, and being directed to "foreign ticket sales" for the '96 Olympic Games, etc. Most seem to take it in good humor -- the state tourist magazine had (and probably still has) a column called "One of our states is missing". I only lived in Farmington for a year as a kid, but I still have something of a soft spot for the place.

Don't get too wound up about having to explain that NEW Mexico is as American as apple pie -- most people are too stupid to even know how many states there are, much less names, locations, capitals, or major characteristics. Just be amazed that they got their shoes tied this morning.

by why me worry?

The problem is that I am no longer pursuing Novell and am working on obtaining an MCSE and have no interest in Novell because I really am not inclined to learn Linux and all that crap that comes with it. Any time there is a job out there, be it large or small, that involves Novell systems, I get flooded with phone call from about 20 different recruiters all singing the same song. These positions have been around for months and the company who needs these services can't fill the position because nobody wants to schlep god knows where for a 3 month assignment that pays a peasly hourly rate. Sorry, but if you want me shack up in some hotel for a 3 month assignment that I am really not interested in, you better be ready to pay about $200/hr and the cost of my travel expenses. I even refuse to take jobs about 15 minute away from me by car because they are across the state line into CT. I pay enough taxes in NY and really don't care to be shelling out more to CT or any other state.

by too old for it

Same here. Wintel servers, system admin and CP hardware tech.

Clueless headhunter wants to know about my Ciso, Linux, Sun, UNIX, Visual Basic, telco or whatever experience.

"I saw maybe your resume on line ..." Good. Did you read the thing?

(Of course, I have had interviews go that way at staff aug. agencies when they were trying to fill a slot and get a commission.)

by arlyss

I think such a notion is TRULY insane.

Sounds to me like you're receiving whatever matches your resum? description, without regard for geo.

by colonel panijk

[i]Sounds to me like you're receiving whatever matches your resum? description[/i]

He's lucky, then. I get recruiter calls for positions that are not only clear across the country, but bear no semblance to what's in [b]my[/b] resume! I think my name goes into the system as "warm body" and they try their luck with me.

by tony hopkinson

engineer software IT developer administrator DBA VB and java.

Got to admit I'm still trying to figure out how mine matched up with a job for maintaining helicopters though.

I think they were searching for full stops that time or may be a or something equally specific.

by ed woychowsky

Another thing that I noticed is that some of the matches aren't on whole words. For example, I worked with someone that knows JavaScript, but doesn't know Java. Neither the software nor the headhunters know that there is a difference, so the JavaScript developers get contacted for both.

Personally, because I know Ajax I'm waiting to be contacted by the history department of a university. Ooh, maybe even a cleaning service!

by tig2

They want someone for 3 months (possible extension) in Tokyo with fluent Japanese. Near as I can tell, I was matched on "business" and "process".

Looking for a Process Analyst. Gee, I thought I clearly stated that I am a PM???

Too bad about the Japanese- know 3, maybe 4 words. Hmmmm.

by colonel panijk

Oh well, I guess they [i]were[/i] talking about cold places, weren't they?

Merely being exposed to cold does [b]not[/b] cause a cold. Being exposed to certain kinds of [i]viruses[/i] will give you a cold ("rhinoviruses", which infect the nose). Being [i]chilled[/i] might lower your resistance, making it more likely your immune system will be unable to fight off a viral infection. Excessively dry air (common in winter) stresses your mucus membranes and doesn't help you fight off viruses. Being in close proximity to a lot of other people (i.e., being cooped up inside during the winter) helps to spread viruses more easily. Winters may be cold, but there are a lot of other factors that come into play in giving lots of people colds and flu (two separate viral families, by the way).

I am not a doctor. I merely play one on TV^H^H^H^H^Hwith attractive women.

by onbliss

Infact they used to ask us to cover our ears and head in fog and dew. They thought fog/dew somehow descends into the body :-) And you know guys usually listen to their mommies and grannies. The arguments really don't get anywhere.

by tony hopkinson

That's an indian macdonalds. Dhansak or Do Piazza is want you want. If you do your own look up Murgh Mussalam. Heaven on a plate that. Oh and make your own garam masala, don't by that crap in a jar from a supermarket. It's floor sweepings in comparison.

If they make it ten minutes it came out of a jar with uncle ben on it.

by why me worry?

Hi,

Greetings from Butler International Inc.,

With reference to your resume on a job site , I would like to inform you of Project Manager that I have currently available with my client ,. This is a 6 months contract position located in New York, NY
** Please mark a copy to polamrakesh@gmail.com email address - as I am not receiving emails from certain domains. - Thanks **

Job Description:

Minimum of 10 yrs experience with expertise in managing all phases of systems development from concept through implementation and maintenance.

Overall responsibility for structuring a project, performing the detailed planning, and managing project execution and completion of moderate or large projects

Defines the phase deliverables, tracks milestones and incurred expenses versus planned expenses, schedules role sand resources, evaluates risks and recommends contingency plans Manages the development of the technical strategy

Assigns resources and tasks, and manages quality assurance, resolution of issues, status reviews and reporting, development of standards, change control, customer support, and compliance with all policies and procedures. Able to facilitate workshops such as JAD, RAD and DRP sessions

If this opportunity sounds right for you please reply to this email with the following details:

1. Your updated resume in word format
2. Desired Hourly Rate
3. Your visa status (e.g: US Citizen / Green Card Holder etc)

Thanks and Regards,
Rakesh,
Voice: 201-722-2375,
E-mail: prakesh@butler.com,
Visit: www.butler.com.

Note: We respect your Online Privacy. This is not an unsolicited mail. Under Bill s.1618 Title III passed by the 105th U.S. Congress this mail cannot be considered Spam as long as we include Contact information and a method to be removed from our mailing list. If you are not interested in receiving our e-mails then please reply with a "remove" in the subject line and mention all the e-mail addresses to be removed with any e-mail addresses which might be diverting the e-mails to you. I am sorry for the inconvenience caused to you.

Basically, this guy is talking out of his anus and giving absolutely no detail whatsoever about this so called "project" or what skills are needed, and how my skills even apply to this position. I doubt this moron even read my resume and is simply blasting this crap to everyone to please his boss. I told this idiot to screw off and never bug me again with this nonsense.

Not to sound racist or prejudice, but some Indians are better suited at driving cabs and serving food in Indian restaurants than they are as headhunters.

by tony hopkinson

population with the IQ of a gnat.
We had to find something for them to do so we invented recruitment.

Tell them you want $600 an hour, you'll either get real lucky or they'll think you are the knobhead and never bother you again.

by too old for it

I prefer to send first round resumes in PDF. It holds the formatting better, and prevents someone slicing and dicing it into something I'm not qualified for or interested in ... um, excuse me, that's "putting it in our company format" ... in order to get me in front of a company interviewer who wonders WTF I am there for.

I seem to have a mucheasier time getting a position when the hiring manager says "send over your best guys, I don't need to interview them" rather than when he looks at a pile massaged resume.

by onbliss

Actually not by my doctor. But during the immigration process we do get our health checked up. So the family underwent the Mantoux test.

I think it might be some hereditary respiratory illness. My dad was allergic to dust & smoke. He used to get wheezing. Exposed to cold does not give me cold, but when I get the cold, exposing myself to cold triggers the cough.

But no harm in getting checked again, I guess.

by jaqui

you get so many Ed.
you are willing to lower your professional "standards" enough to work with microsoft's malware. :D

I don't get theseheadhunter contacts you speak of at all.

maybe because the one I did getwas for a windws network admin and I laughed hysterically at the headhunte for 15 minutes, before saying, unix only sh!thead.

by ed woychowsky

You?re in Canada, not the US where the H1B cap was reached in June. Also, I?ve been using Firefox and MySQL regularly, and I?m trying to learn Linux. On that note, I trust your judgment on all things Linux, could you recommend a good Linux book? Thank you.

by jaqui

online free guides:

http://tldp.org/guides.html

NAG and SAG are great, Network Administration Guide nd System Administration Guide. I have a hard copy [ bound publication of the 7th edition called Linux, Advanced Referencce ] that is both of those and the Howtos from TLDP.org website.

by stress junkie

"Don't get too wound up about having to explain that NEW Mexico is as American as apple pie."

I've got news for you. Being "new" doesn't make someone any less Mexican.

:D

by jmgarvin

Although I get the best Mexican food in the country and the burritos here aren't called wraps ;-)

by tig2

I am officially jealous!

One of the things that I gave up on moving to the midwest was mexican food that even APPROACHES decent.

Don't suppose you could be talked into sending a care package???

by colonel panijk

[i]I really am not inclined to learn Linux and all that crap that comes with it.[/i]

Actually, I find Linux (and any flavor of Unix) much simpler and more rationally laid out than anything Windozy. Oh well, to each his own. Leaves more for me.

[i]I even refuse to take jobs about 15 minute away from me by car because they are across the state line into CT. I pay enough taxes in NY and really don't care to be shelling out more to CT or any other state.[/i]

Did CT finally get an income tax? I haven't lived there in 20-something years (and I worked just across the border in NY). I [b]do[/b] remember getting ambushed with some kind of "Personal Property Tax" or something out of left field. Be sure to check the tax laws (or just get a copy of each state's income tax form) and work out if you'll be paying more or less tax. I know that if you live outside of NY and work in NY, the "nonresident" return gives you all sorts of legit opportunities to exempt income from NY tax -- the same may be true of CT. Generally it works out that for a given bit of income, it gets taxed in one state or the other, or by both at reduced rate. You won't know until you look.

by problemsolversolutionseeker

OK, bad joke.

I have an Indian friend that is changing his name, because he is embarrassed by the shenanigans Indian recruiters and programmers are pulling. I worked at one site, where I had to show my DL every day to get in, after some Indians were caught signing in for each other, and billing time when they were not there!

Should you end up working for one of these consulting companies - if they mess up your billing, you will never get your money. I remind people that working for an international company means that you do not really have a legal venue for redress.

Also, I am stepping on toes here. Be sure to understand that the culture over there is different. You must have a good strategy to handle them - they will bald face lie to get into a situation, or to get out! And, they think they are superior! Especially if you are a female.

I could write a book. Of course, I should back up a bit and add that I have met some good Indians that are hard workers.

My general advice is to avoid Indian recruiters.

by too old for it

Nah, doesn't make you un-american. I would occasionally have it one when I was too busy to change channels.

The girl with the long blond hair was cute. Does that make me not-PC?

by wayoutinva

Maybe we could pull together a top ten list of our pet peeves with recuiters and send a copy to all of the recuiters that have contacted us..Assuming they can both read and comprehend, (not a given obviously) some of them might just take a little hint...might be worth a try...it might at least make some of us feel better

by tony hopkinson

having responded to a get rich quick advert 'All you need is an internet connection and a phone'.

We are talking about the same people who pay to get their winnings from a lottery they never entered.

by metilley9

TiggerTwo, it is not your imagination. Most of these headhunters are from India! I must get 5 or 6 phone calls a week from people that cannot pronounce my name (or any other word in the English language!) For God's sake, learn the language before you come here, will ya?!?

Then when they have you on the phone, they don't have the courtesy to address you by Mr. or Dr. All of a sudden they're on a 'first name' basis with you. WTF!?! I was brought up better than that. I live in Delaware and none of these people seem to know where I am. Delaware is NOT a "part" of Maryland!

I love the ones that say they have a "wonderful opportunity" in some horrible place. The most popular places are New York City and Northern New Jersey (i.e. Jersey City). Forget about it! I clearly state in my resume I will not consider either place. Then when they can't convince me to drop everything and more there in a moment's norice, they put on some New Yawker... you know, the rude kind that basically tells ya that you're an idiot because you won't move there. Give me a break. I am not going to uproot myself to the rudest city in America for anything under a million dollars per year. And these are all 3 month "assignments". Forget about it!

I want a position in someplace nice, like Arizona or Nevada or San Francisco or Palo Alto... I don't want to go someplace where a decent apartment will cost me 20,000 dollars a month and a hamburger costs 35 dollars!

How do I convey to headhunters that I don't want to talk to non-English speaking individuals? Is that rude? I don't think it is. They are wasting my time and their's.

by why me worry?

Just today I got about 3 phone calls from some Indian recruiter whose names I cannot even pronounce. I didn't answer the cellphone and let it go to voicemail. I later listened to the voicemail message and could not understand a god damned word any of these idiots were mumbling. It's bad enough they can't speak English properly, they can't even properly pronounce my name right and one fool even called me Robert or Rodney, wich isn't even close to my name. Also, how hard is it for these numbskulls to look at a map to see that South Carolina and Detroit are nowhere near Westchester County, NY? Where do they assume that we are all 20 something year old and are willing to relocate god knows where on a drop of a dime? Sorry, I got a mortgage and family here in NY and will not move to some hick town in the middle of nowhere for a 3 month assignment that is very vaguely described to me.

by tig2

A company I worked for decided to outsource their IT to an Indian firm. As I understand it, they had no problem rounding up folks willing to drop everything and get on a plane.

What they discovered on arrival was that they were missing a few skillsets. So they tried recruiting.

For a skillset that normally bills around $50-$60 per hour, they were willing to offer $50,000/yr. AND they couldn't figure out why they got NO responses.

This is new face of recruiting- it is truly frightening how many of those folks truly do NOT understand that it is not the way we are accustomed to doing business.

And if you are a woman, it's worse. I try to be courteous with everyone but I have been treated so rudely by some of them that I had to terminate the conversation.

by secretgeekygirl

For God's sake, learn the language before you come here, will ya?!?

And, what makes you think they are calling from the USA? It would be nice if there was a map or something, posted in the call centers.

by unellen

I usually ask what time it is where they are, and by doing this they reluctantly reply what country they are actually calling from.
Maybe we should move to India, the cost of living is a lot less, so we could get by on that $50,000/year salary... I hear the people from India only get paid $17,000 for the same job, and companys are starting to complain about inflation because it only used to cost them $10,000

by eddie n

...instead of having people read the resumes that are up on HotJobs, Dice or whatever, they use automatic keyword programs...which forget to take the geographic location of the resume owner into account. Which is why I am always getting "wonderful offers" in Alaska, even though I specifically asked for Chicago.

by tig2

And while we are wandering down this road... How about those job descriptions that are not only grammatically incorrect but full of typos??? Do you really feel motivated to work for the company that wrote those? I certainly do not.

by tony hopkinson

that some knobhead with phone and an internet connection is on the case.

For companies, I look at their corporate web site, it's quality and how up to date it is in terms of content can tell you a lot about them.

I got one offer to go work for a web development firm, their corporate site as built with front page and hadn't been updated for two years.

They gave me the URL for background info, which was nice of them, saved wasting more of my time anyway.

by marya123

I was a purchasing agent in Fairbanks, AK. Occasionally, my order would get sent to Anchorage (only once by each supplier). When I would call to let them know they sent it to the wrong town (in spite of address on purchase order), the response would be "Anchorage is right next to Fairbanks. Can't you just run over and pick it up?" Fairbanks is 350 miles from Anchorage. Sometimes people just don't get all the facts. But they can learn.

by ed woychowsky

Fairbanks and Anchorage being right next to each other gives me an idea. Imagine how much money could be saved by sending probes to Earth instead of the Moon, Venus or Mars. Mmm... Maybe I should patent the idea.

by jmgarvin

And that 9/11 was a conspiracy to make oil prices go high and that Castro, himself, killed JFK...and and....

NO! I'M NOT DONE YET! PUT THE STRAIGHT JACKET DOWN!! WAIT I HAVE TO TEL#&ak^ no carrier

by jmgarvin

I DON'T miss the lack of good Mexican food in the midwest (used to live in St. Louis). I really feel for ya...

On the bright side, a bunch of places in NM will ship chile anywhere. Try Socorro, San Antonio, and Hatch for good Chile. ;-)

by jmgarvin

It seems that kindness is weakness and should be exploited as well. They're always surprised when I tell them to stuff it.

Oh and for those recuriters reading this:
A high end tech trainer typically is not cheap. I will not take $25/hour and no paid development time. Also, the developed content is not yours if I am on contarct. Are you high?

by why me worry?

Yes, it can be cracked with specialized password recovery software, but I doubt these headhunter morons know how to do it or will waste their time on it. I simply use a very long and complex password to thwart such attempts, but if they ask to send it unencrypted, I ask them why they need need to. Their response is always "we need to affix our company logo on it and reformat it". To that response I say "send me your logo and I will change it myself because I do not want my resume to be turned into chopped suey by rearranging the formatting or even changing the text within." It's fine as it is and if they have a problem with it, then I will take my business elsewhere.

by onbliss

...I read a guy on the internet telling how the rockets could have never gotten past the Escape Velocity and that moon landing was a hoax.

by jmgarvin

If you really want to want to believe do a search of Loose Change on You Tube or Google Video...Interesting, but rubbish.

by laconvis

Ed,

You are not alone. I live in Michigan and continue to hear about the opportunities in the South and West Coast. I believe it is a lack of ability to mine the companies for possible positions and cold sell into new companies. Hang in there, it is a cycle and soon the markets will open up.

by former big iron guy

The other thing that I really dislike in this sort of situation is the "Fabulous Pay Rate in High Priced Location..." I once, before the net became pervasive, had an offer (for a NYC job) at almost 50% higher than what I was getting here in the midwest. Called the local library and got the diffs in the cost of living factors. It would have been a substantial net decrease to accept that job. I kinda told the head hunter don't call me, I'll call you from now on.....
But the net is really good at getting the feel and costs for potential locations, without going to the library.

by ed woychowsky

Were you a mainframe programmer? If so, before Y2K were you contacted for positions in New Guinea?

A friend of mine was called about a BAL position in New Guinea about eight years ago. His response was far from politically correct as it can get, "Do they still eat people?"

by stress junkie

Living in New England all of my life I'm sure that I've never tasted anything like real Mexican or Tex-Mex food. We have some restaurants around here that say that they serve these types of dishes. I love these places but I'd love to taste some real Mexican food.

Oh well. I doubt that I will ever get to that part of the country. On the other hand I've heard that there is some great sky diving in the desert. I love to sky dive so some windy summer I may have to go to the south west to get some good sky diving weather.

by why me worry?

My mother in law tells me how the company she worked for decided to outsource a lot of their cobol/mainframe programming to India. Anyhow, she was wondering why at times the mainframe seemed very sluggish in performance and why she was getting locked out and prevented from executing any more threads. Turns out that those Indian "consultants" were using the company's mainframe in an unauthorized manner to process code for another company that hired them. When confronted about it, they lied through their teeth to make it seem legitimate, but the proof was in the pudding and their contract was abruptly terminated. Problem is that the U.S courts could not have taken action because they consultants operated out of India, for which the courts have no jurisdiction. Well, it serves that financial company right to get screwed this way, thinking they could save money by outsourcing work to India. I'm sure this has happened to many companies and I hope it happens to more to make greedy corporations realize that outsourcing to India or some other 3rd world craphole is a very risky endeavor.

by trafficjon

Hi, Ed:

Yes, it happens. It is a pretty silly waste of time for everyone involved.

I personally think that what is happening to you here has several componenents:

A. The Tech labor market is getting tighter, even as the companies hiring are STILL trying to pinch pennies.

B. Recruiting is a viciously high turnover industry. The mortality rate is 90% to 95% in the first year, and most receive little or no training before they start.

C. When you're desperate and out of sources, it is "worth a try". They don't know what your situation is. You might have family there, and welcome a move, as a stepping stone to "get back home". That's a stretch, but we do watch for it.

D. As you pick up scars and grey hair in this business, you learn to keep Mapquest open, and to routinely check to see if that town in Pennsylvania is REALLY as close to NYC as you hope it is... LOL

Hope this gives you a little peek behind the curtain.

Sincerely,

Jon Williamson IT Manager, Webmaster, Candidate Recruiting

Williamson Employment Services, Inc.
213 Hilltop Rd.
St. Joseph, MI 49085

Are you LinkedIn? If so, send me a connection request!
If not, visit my profile at https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonwilliamson for information.

Visit our jobs page at http://www.williamsonemployment.com/jobs.html

My Main Phone: 269-353-4735
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by tig2

According to FireFox, I use that title frequently. Hmmm.

I have been in your position. It bytes.

Do yourself a favour- when you go back on the market, consider taking a role that may be somewhat beneath you. While I was in school, I took a job doing onsite hardware support from having been a PM for some time. It gave me an opportunity to do some networking, expand some fallback skills, and take a "lay of the land" to get directed more towards what was in demand.

I think that we will see a change in the outsource trend but it won't happen quickly. Know that at least here, you will always be able to commiserate with the rest of us on the "been there, done that" plan.

Good luck to you!