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Am I A Tyrant?

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We use several categories listed in SonicWall's Content Filter to alleviate malcious and other non-work related web surfing. I get a lot of complaints because people can't buy there widgets and cogs. We recently changed our ISP from a local cable non-business access to a Verizon 768K line. Now my users are complaining about speed. This is simply not true, there is no issue with bandwidth, in fact it's more reliable. It was an eye-opener though on the amount of internet radio, sports ticker and other bandwidth useage being done.

I went ahead and locked out some more categories, like the ones mentioned above. I was literally laid into for doing so. I was told it is not ITs responsibility to decide what can and what can't be seen on the internet. I used our security policy to quote from. I was also told that if employees what to check the PGA results that so be it. So, am I wrong in this? I offered to only restrict certain access during normal working hours or make use of the consent form before continuing on to a non-work related site.

250 replies

by tbragsda

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I have worked for big and small, and this sort of issue comes up nomatter what the policy. You are doing the right thing, but get your CIO or equivlant to set the policy. Then its your job to tell the users "sorry, its not MY policy, its the COs."

The company I currentley work for has grown alot. When I came in, it was still suffering the sort of mom&pop mentality. We had to shift gears, and some older employees resented it, and the control IT had over "their" PCs. It will take time, and the managements backing to make policy stick.

Don't back down. Get some help. Put it on paper, and publish for the users.

by tink56

One of my responsibilities is to make sure the organization is being efficient in spending it's money wisely.

When I was writing our usage policies I went in with information to justify them. I had the monthly costs for bandwidth. If we allow employees to use network resources for non-business purposes (such as internet radio, video streaming, downloads, etc.) then at some point bandwidth will be affected. Were they willing to accept this and either live with these problems in the future or spend more money to increase our pipeline.

The answer was: Write our policies so that non-work related internet radio, downloads, video streaming, etc. are not allowed.

by gulsath

Hello Theresa,

I work at a credit union in Maine actually. So you can relate. If our members saw employees surfing around on their way in and out, what message does that send?

by gulsath

The resentment is coming straight from Sr. Mngt. and we already have a policy in place that specifically states the equipment is owned by the company and you are not to do non-work related things on them.

I was invalidated because, being the IT Manager I can obviously circumvent the restrictions. I was made to feel like a Senator talking about health insurance premiums. What does s/he care, it's free for life for them. It's a frustrating situation.

by afram

I can see this must be frustrating.

The problem I see, is that if you allow the users to do whatever they want, they can break their computer or potentially bring down the network, or get into legal trouble.

WHEN (not if) it happens (even if you have documentation), YOU are going to be blamed for the downtime because you didn't sufficiently protect the network. A failure is going to affect a lot of people who can't get their work done and they are going to be knocking down your door. Users don't care why things fail - they only know that you have to fix it fast and that it shouldn't have failed in the first place.

I suggest allying yourself with the highest ranking manager you possibly can and push a policy through her/him. Document how threats can bring everything down and the cost to repair, and the time wasted, and how easily it can be prevented.

by bigproject

Hello Gulsath

This may be "crazy talk" but..., you are going to have to do some work :-) Although, I think the results would be worthwhile.As with all business, if you can show how the policy relates to money you will not have any arguments.
The capabilities of your system must be sufficient for the business, and if "personal use" is interfering, it must be stopped. Or ... management will have to increase the budget to allow you to increase the system capacity to allow for the added "employee benefit".
You will need to make a presentation to management on how the bandwidth is being used and how much bandwidth is needed to get the real work done. Showing real data is needed. This information needs to be tied to dollar amounts, (you must use the language of your target audience).
Without doing your homework and communicating your findings to management and users, there is no way to get out of the role of a "tyrant", meddling with other peoples "privledges". If you can show how the "personal use" is impacting business, management should take care of the issue by enforcing policy or increasing budget for capacity. If not, you may want to look for another place to make your hardwork count.

Best regards

by fgarvin

Since it is senior Mangement, I recomend you document the fact that they forced you to back off the web filtering. CYA. Then when things hit the fan because business can't get done due to lack of bandwith, Virus, or other malicious activity, you can throw it back on them. But even still, keep your resume or cv up to date. I get the feeling that they would still try to pin it on you. I know full well what it is like to be told to do something, then they take away your tools to do it with.

by pantegra

You have to make a stand somewhere. You are going to be yelled at for restricting the websites or for the network crashing because of a virus. From my point of view I would rather play it safe for the network that sorry. People can get over there emotions and acting like children. But trying to recover lost data from an infected server can ruin the company.

Users need to grow up and realize that the internet is not for their personal use. it is a work tool and needs to be treated as such. it they complain about not being able to check the PGA scores cut off all access for everyone except email.

It is your job to uphold the policies that have been set up. Making exceptions to the rule is just opening up the network of problems.

by gralfus

As long as your management supports you, and you have the numbers drawn up to show them the whys and wherefores, then you should be on solid ground. It doesn't feel good to have angry users, but the users need the whip cracked over them to remind them of the difference between work and home internet. A written policy that states it up front is the best approach. Then adhere strictly to that policy, and adjust it to be more strict as needed.

by afram

It is absolutely IT's responsibility to decide what users can access. It's important to keep out the spyware and freebie software crap that people download that usually breaks something. I think the others just don't understand the security risk and bandwidth usage.

I recommend documenting your concerns and pass them to your supervisor. Let them know the threat and how much time and effort is wasted trying to fix problems that could have been easily avoided when you could have been working on something important.

If the brass doesn't seem to care, get a trial version of surfpatrol or equivalent. Get documentation on where people are going and at what times (you should let the users know in advance before using it). Also see if you get trial software to show network utilization (or your ISP may provide this information on request).

Perhaps the managers will reconsider when they see what their employees are doing when they should be working.

by mdm

It is NOT the absolute responsibility to decide waht users and access. You are not the CEO, owner, principal or whomever has bottom line responsibility for the organization.

by cactus pete

You have a 768 for how many? If they, and all the business apps, are using the same 768 line you MUST keep them from killing themselves with nonsense. That just isn't a large pipe for a whole company to be surfing at all times.

My company, a partnership of a few hundred lawyers, has two T-1 connections to the internet. They simply won't allow us to block much, so now we're going to a T-3.

The cost is worth it to them, but in the meantime, they are preventing themselves from getting real work done [internet research sites that charge per minute] whenever they stream the latest tsunami footage, etc.

If they want a loose policy, they have to get more bandwidth. Don't wanna pay for the conenction? Fine, live within your means.

by gulsath

For work related items alone, our bandwidth is ok, mostly mortgage, nada related items and emails.

by cactus pete

Well, here, in downtown Chicago, I'd tell you to just get a T-1. They cost about $250/month in the loop. [Last I saw] I don't know if they're popular in as small a town as yours, but the price increase might be less than you think. Then let them surf all they want - behind a firewall and proxy with built in AV...

by mdm

What has number of users got to do with anything. Just do your job and let those in charge make the decisions about how the system is used

by jdmercha

I've always had a problem with restricting Internet access. Mostly because it is rarely done correctly. Yes, if you restrict access site by site that is fine. But when you only allow certain types of traffic or certain web sites, you will invariably restrict many usefull sites as well.

One common target of Internet restrictions is to prevent access to discussion boards, like this one. I worked one place that would not allow any NNTP traffic. Eliminating newsgroups as a place to find information. Many offices restrict instant messaging. My wife is also an IT manager and we bounce ideas off each other through AIM all the time.

The better solution is to write effective, enforcable policies. Then educate your employees and trust them to follow the policies. If you can't trust an employee then that employee needs to be fired.

(And you thought you were a tyrant.)

by amcol

It is IT's responsibility to restrict Internet access, but only to a point.

Non-essential non-business oriented high bandwidth traffic should be restricted because it can interfere with normal business operations. However, it is definitely NOT the job of IT to be the Internet police, nor to set business policy for the organization. If people are going to waste their time checking sports scores or their personal e-mail or how their auction's going on Ebay, that's their business...and their supervisor's.

You can't prevent people from interfering with themselves. You should only prevent them from interfering with the organization. Someone who's wasting company time by web surfing has an issue that should be dealt with by management, not IT.

by afram

If they are using company computers then it can interfere with the organization. It's very easy to trick users into downloading spyware, viruses, etc and IT is going to waste time cleaning it up. Users could cause legal problems for the company if they start browsing for warez and using filesharing programs.

You don't have to become Internet police if you have the content filter turned on on your sonicwall appliance. That gauges webcontent based on pornography, gambling, hate, violence, cults, drugs, etc. (similar to spam filter). Pages containing this type of content is blocked and everything else is viewable.

by gulsath

What I'm blocking is streaming audio / video, and the ESPN Bottom Line sports ticker software. I didn't even block chat or NNTP. I tried to keep it reasonable because employees were complaining about speed, with the top 40 radio station playing in the background.

by jdmercha

And it may depend on your field of business. If you are blocking all streaming video, then you are also blocking your sales force from watching a webinar about the latest product they are selling. (Or maybe you do not have sales people.)

If you work in a factory that produces automobile tansmissions, then you can probalby get away with blocking all sites that deal with sex (or other inappropriate words) in the URL. But if you are a healthcare company you can't block all of them.

So in a nutshell if you can list specific URLs to block, that is fine. But to block all urls except what you have identified, or to block a certain type of traffic is too restrictive.

by jadal

If you are responsible (the powers that be gave you the authority) for keeping the Internet and the corpororate LAN running properly, then you must do what you must do to keep things running. If it is just your idea of what must be done, then you need to seek the President or the GM's OK to have A POLICY to keep things above board. Employees will always complain about the IT guys though becvasue you are the one that has control over these things...These days it is a very tough job keeping corprate LANs fast and free from viruses. My sympathies go out to you...

by dwiebles

Well, it really depends on who is doing the screaming. If it is the end users, ask them to submit official complaints through their manager, and that they can have their manager request the access they want, if it is OK with the manager of the department, why not? If the Managers (your higher ups) are complaining, usually because the link to their latest lewd joke doesn't work, give them the access, but recommmend coming up with a policy and enforcememnt. Meet all department heads and get their views, let them know what you want to implement, timeframes, etc. Spontaneously locking things out tends to cause more headaches than it's worth, get the management on your side and implement it over a short time frame, with all staff being aware ahead of time. It would be best to have this in place before bandwidth becomes an issue, so you don't get yelled at for "not seeing this coming".

Cheers

-DW

by gulsath

DW, I think it was the fact of the spontaneous restrictions that caused the problems. As I mentioned above, the policies already exist, they are not being enforced though. My issue is what you mention at the end of your post. Who do you think will get the reaming when someone sues the company (It's happened in another fasion before here) or the boss has a slow download?

by dwiebles

You will be responsible my friend, regardless of WHO downloads what because of slack enforcement, or inaccesible material because of strict enforcement. Seems no win until you factor in the benefits from the later. Stick to your guns, make sure that the network is secure, and hope that the management is on your side...

-DW

by jamesrl

My previous employer had a tool which blocked sites based on a subscribed list(monthly updates), and allowed you to block specific sites and some specific ports.

It had a database to track all access. What our person did was to put out the top tens lists - top ten users and top ten sites. We would review those sites to see if they were appropriate.

For the users side, if inappropriate usage was spotted then the persons' manager was notified. If it continued, the persons' manager and HR were notified. All users of the internet had to sign a form acknowledging the rules(no excessive personal use, no porn etc.) and acknowledging the penalties(potential firing for repeated offense or any criminal activity).

Free and open access to the internet from work is not a right. If IT pays for the bandwidth, it has the responsibility to manage the bandwidth. It is not IT's responsibility to set the policy - thats up to someone else. But IT can enforce the policy through technology(blocking), its someone else's job to one on one with offenders(HR/Management).

James

by afram

I think it should be IT who creates the usage policy as far as what is allowed. IT is best qualified to recognize the threats and to know what affect usage will have on the computers and network. After IT creates the policy, the president/CEO/HR should approve it and to decide what to do with the users who violate it.

by dc_guy

You have to be realistic and accommodate that. People basically live at work and you have to let them do the things that involves if you want them to do good work and be loyal to the company. If that means spending money on more bandwidth, in the Information Age it is probably the single dirt-cheapest thing you can do to improve morale, productivity, and quality.

Absolutely you have to make sure they're not doing anything illegal, counter to the company's interests, or flagrantly inconsistent with the local community standards. In other words, if you're in Hollywood you'd better not filter out pornography!

Other than that, the same rule applies that I tell every wannabe manager: There's only one way to manage people, and that's by using your people skills. A good manager simply knows whether Joey is playing poker or whether Susie is a e-Bay addict. He doesn't need an elaborate log to figure it out. If you can't do your job and manage people the old-fashioned way, then you've got no business being a manager in the first place.

For all practical purposes, we live here in your ****ing office building, primarily because you dinosaurs who are under the spell of the energy industry won't let us telecommute from home! We have to be able to live all the dimensions of our lives here, to a reasonable extent. Learn to live with it!

by gulsath

I have a home which I go to every night. What I do at home and what I do at work are separate issues. It doesn't matter that bandwidth is cheap. Buy a radio for 20 bucks. It's a person's choice to work and is very demoralizing for employers who choose to work, not eShop. Let's face, if you have an auction ending today, you're spending at least the last 10 minutes of that auction doing nothing else but watching your bid.

by bsod_420

I think DC_GUY forget that when you are at work you are being compensated to perform a service for your employer. Unless your job is to surf the web all day, you probably shouldn't be doing it.

Gulsath, you seem to have some good policies in place. Judging by your comments, you are trying hard to keep the best interests of your company intact. I would find it hard to believe you are implementing a security policy as a means of attacking fellow employees.

I had so many users complain about my new security policy when I began directing the IT department at my company, that I had the users agree to take a simple 10 question test about IT security. Whoever passed could have free reign on the web. No one passed and the complaints were (almost) gone after that.

by gulsath

For the most part I've blocked the major categories. The ones that could cause legal problems for the company and the ones with high bandwidth usage. And let's not forget. I can always put website on the allowed list if it was categorized wrong.

by gulsath

Than 250. My 768 is on a T1 but local regs prevent me from using more channels on this particular type of T1 for data. But it is a dedicated line so will be more bandwidth reliable than our cable.

by gulsath

That's fantastic. Still have a copy of that test, it may come in handy.

You're right, I'm not trying to attack any employees, but I have already had a three day episode fixing Netsky on my network. And that was before our fouth branch opened and about 20 employees ago. So, it already did happen. It was a download from a freeware / game site.

by mrafrohead

I wouldn't sweat it man, you're just doing what you should be. The company should see what you are doing as a favor to them. By allowing the flow of work to happen instead of the flow of downtime...

Though I will admit that I LOVE my internet radio when I forget to bring in my Mp3 player... ;p

by gulsath

Mostly this post was to vent outside of recourse, but yes, it has been very helpful with the with / against ratio to my reasoning. It helps to know how others handle a siutation.

by bigaldepr

Many execs, managers and supervisors see a content filter as a simple means for IT to do their work for them and let someone else take the heat for the resulting problems. People that consume most of their day with non-work related Internet activites are poorly supervised. Simply putting a content filter up will not make them productive.

Certainly some content should be filtered such as; porno, gambling and the like. But using a filter to replace good supervision is counter-productive.

by scottyb37743

First off, speed and reliability are 2 seperate issues. The average cable connection will be 4-5 times faster than your DSL connection. So, even though you now have "stable" transfer rates your users will see speed differences.

As for where I work, I don't make any decisions on what to block or not block on my own, outside of P2P. I make a lists of bandwidth offending protocols and wait for my boss to tell me what to block. If you were "laid into" by your end users then so be it. If it were management you should take note and don't assume that it's your call to make. From the tone of your post this seems to be the case.

Good luck with educating management!

by gulsath

When we put the Content Filtering in, it was to prevent non-work related content. This includes all non-useful content. It's not like the content blocked was a surprise, just the timing.

by thechas

It is VERY common to block Internet radio and other non-work related Internet traffic.

If I understand what I read correctly, you have upper management support for controlling traffic.

The core issue as I see it is an error in notification.

Even if the policy has existed for years, it is still very wise to inform users of any changes in enforcing the policy.

Users tend to think that if they are allowed to access a site or service that is in a "gray" category that that site or service is approved.

Next time you make a change, be polite and give the users a few days notice.

Chas

by bsod_420

What decisions would you make if you were in a department managers role, such as Gulsath? It seems as though you are merely a follower, whereas Gulsath is trying to improve his company's procedures.

by gulsath

Until somewhat recently, I did manage 7 people in IT and Operations. Now I just focus on IT. But while the Ops Guy I did have conversations with employees about their use of the Internet.

It's simple, you can't use our internet for overuse personal use just like you can't take a stack of notebooks or a ream of paper home.

by scottyb37743

First off, Department Manager makes it sound like quite a large outfit but in reality we're talking about someone that utilized cable access to meet their company's IT needs....see what I'm saying. Now he switched to SDSL and when employees complained about speed he said, that it can't be so because actually it's now more reliable??

I made the assumption he was a Network Admin like myself. At the company I work at, the System Admin lays out the structure and I implement it. It's his job to communicate with North American IT director and get his approval for the suggestions we provide. Guess what? NA IT director has to get it approved by someone even higher up than him! This is common in the enterprise environment.

We're running multiple T1's, DSL and PRI connections with 5 M$ servers, 2 UNIX and a VOIP system that 2 of us maintain and yet we make decisions as dictated by management.

Gulsath, who "laid into you"? Was it end-users or management?

BSOD_420,Look up the definition of Network Admin. It's exactly what you described...a follower. So, I'm doing my job, implementing the procedures as dictated by the system admin.

I applaud Gulsath for trying to improve company procedures but it seems he's overstepped his boundaries as stated by, "it's not IT's place to determine what employess should or shouldn't do. Who said that?

by amcol

No company expects (or should expect) every employee to be working hard every minute of the entire business day only on business. That's how people burn out.

Lots and lots of companies provide onsite health clubs or memberships in local health clubs, noon time meditation groups or chair massages, and any number of other ways to break up the day. There have been innumerable studies showing definitively that people are more productive when they take a ten minute break every couple of hours.

The "best companies to work for" lists routinely include organizations whose employees report that one of the main reasons they like working there is that they feel treated like adults and professionals. Of course there are plenty of folks who can't be trusted to get their jobs done, but that's a management problem and not something that can be regulated or solved by technology.

I have no problem with IT enabling a little non-business oriented activity, so long as it doesn't interfere with regular business and has little to no incremental cost.

It isn't IT's job to tell people what to do...or NOT do...with their time.

by gulsath

That's all. I don't mind the ten minute breaks either. What I mind is my bandwidth being soaked by the user complaining about speed. Yes, some of my restrictions to obvious, you just can't look at porn at work. But the others are for speed / virus concerns. I'm looking at an 8 hour history of usage. The highest ranked count is sports.espn.go.com with 725! ESPN has a sports ticker that runs 24/7. Really, some of the complaints were becuase webpages don't look right with a blocked message where an ad should be. please, that's just petty.

by oz_media

Employers cannot have you work over 8 hours (even in a salaried position) without paying overtime. After the first 4 overtime, then it's double time.

After a few paycheques are cut for 20 employees working long hours, the boss either sends people home after 8 hours SHARP or takes them to the pub in the aternoon to get them away from work.

I admit I have worked MANY long days when employed F/T, I seem to work very odd hours now, a day could begin at 11PM and end at 4 AM or begin at 11AM and end by 2. Then again it could be a three day bender.

When working for someone else, it is not uncommon for employers to literally kick people out after 8 so that they have a life away from work, and so he doesn't have to pay thm the extra money.

So given that theory, with a general office work day being 7 hours (not including breaks), that would mean less than 1/3 of you life is at work. For you to be expected to live without your home creature comforts for 7 hours while being paid is not asking much.

Damn, how soft are people getting these days?

by montgomery gator

Oz wrote: "Employers cannot have you work over 8 hours (even in a salaried position) without paying overtime. After the first 4 overtime, then it's double time."
....
Wish it was like that here in the USA.

by jaqui

BCLRB says 7.5 hours a day, for a 37.5 hours paid out of 40
only a half hour lunch break, not paid, is required. anything else is a bonus.
by bc labour code

long days...22 hours out of 24, for 3 months. straight. yes, 7 days a week.

and every employer that has had a complaint with labour relations has to have staff meeting frequently, with labour board person there to detail what is and isn't legal.
~l~
( I personally got the Keg Restaurants put on that list.. something about stealing 2000 in overtime not paid. )

by bsod_420

Health clubs and meditation may be a welcome break from work, as may a walk around the block.

I do not think for a second that an individual shouldn't have breaks or down time.

That does not mean that there should be free reign to utilize the IT systems designed to operate a business for personal pleasure.

It is one thing to check for an email from your wife or kids or best friend for that matter. But when the priviledge extends to streaming video, downloading illegal content and infecting the company's network with garbage, it may be a good time to implememnt a security policy.

by montgomery gator

Although well within the legal rights to block access as described, it is also a morale sapper. A happy employee is a productive employee, and allowing employees to surf every now and then is a benefit that costs the company nothing. At my company, blocking is limited to keep us off the usual suspects (gambling, pornography, and such). However, performance is the key, and if an employee can take time to surf every now and then, and still get the job done on or ahead of schedule, with good quality, then there is no problem. Blocking of employee access to the internet is the reason why terms like "Network Nazi" are coined.

by rm antala

Amcol said: "It isn't IT's job to tell people what to do...or NOT do...with their time".

I agree that it is not the IT departments job to tell people what to do with their time, but you're forgetting a few important things:

First, it's not the person's OWN time, it's the COMPANY'S time. The people are there to do a job and are getting paid to do it.

Secondly, it is the IT department's job to enforce the company's policies concerning internet access.

Thirdly, the internet access provided by the company is no different than any other resource that they make available for BUSINESS use by the employees.

Using the company's internet access for your own personal use is no different than an employee using any other company resource for their personal use. Most companies do not allow their employees to use the telephones to make all of their personal and long distance calls while working; employee's have phones at home for that. Most also do not allow employees to use company printers or copiers for printing all of their own personal paperwork; employee's have access to these things either at home or a local copy shop. Why should internet access be any different?? It's a resource paid for by the company for legitimate business use. Your own personal web browsing what HOME computers & HOME internet access are for.

In my opinion, if you're at work and on company time, that is not the time to be doing personal chores & tasks. That's what the other 16 hours in the day (and weekends) are for. Your employer is paying you to do a job for them, not slack off and do whatever you feel like doing on their dime.

If a company does allow an employee to use business resources (internet connection, telephone, printer, copier, etc.) for some of their own personal use, it's an added benefit that they're providing and not a requirement on their part. They pay for it, so they get to make the rules on how it's used by their employees.

by jadal

Gulsath, get your managements support on this issue. After your network has gone down a number of times becasue of this surfing activity from CERTAIN employees and it is usually the same ones, then your decisions should to lock this activity down should come from the management team, not just yourself...

by pkcourtney

I agree that the type of access to the internet is NOT under the purview of IT; it is more the responsibility of HR to set guidelines on the balance between business and non-business related activity on the Internet. It is the job of IT to then implement the guidelines.

Paul in NH

by oz_media

If the boss has his staff complaining that they cannot get to buy widgets or see PGA results it is completely within his right to pass that on to you.

Seeing as he/she probably had really steamed encounters with these PO's employees, his encounter with you showed the same face. This is how most corporate ladders work too.

In this case,just allow what the perosn owning the company wants you to allow. I am sure they didn't understand the scope of the policy when it was written, this is common. For an employer, a written policy is merely a way to reduce lawsuits if they fire someone for abuse of the systems. For the most part it is there for protection not enforcement.

Just open it up and let them have what they want, if that's what the boss wants.

He will be getting enormous billd from the ISP as most business services charge wen you go over a prepaid limit. They will start charging for all the overage each month, when he sees these bills he will either;

A) come screaming at you again, completely understandble and expected. That's the way it is.

B) Start asking users to reduce use of personal services (streaming audio/video)

C) Ask you to block access, in which case when they come and complain to him agin he will say it was his decision and it's just too bad for them!

One question you must ask yourself. Do you get paid to do this? If so, you are also being paid to put up with it.

Just play puppet in those situations, "you're right, I should allow them some perks in their hard day!" and then "You're right, I should lock down some of these services to save bandwidth" then "You're right, they should have these services at the desktop"

One thing that is ALWAYS true when you work for someone. He/She is 'RIGHT', end of story.

You are simply paid to do as you are asked by the person who employs you, and then redo it, and then undo it,and then.....you get the idea.

by gulsath

Like I said in an earlier post. This one just erked me. I had to blow off some steam. Frankly, look at how much time I've spent reading and replying to these. :-)

by oz_media

THis is a great place to voice frustration.

Even in a case such as this where you know very well it is just your job to suck it up and do as asked, it is still nice to see that you aren't the only one that is frustrated by it.

TR has it's ups and downs, but all in all it's a great place to hang out when you need to get away for a bit.

Hang in there!

by afram

I disagree.
IT should inform the brass about possible overage charges and prevent them from being accumulated in the first place.

You shouldn't be paid to put up with it, you should be paid to do the work that is in the best interest of the company. I've never had a problem telling a president flat out that his ideas on IT were bad (as long as I could explain why and provide an alternate solution).

by jdclyde

Yes, it is our responsability to inform them when we see a potential problem.

But what is a problem to us isn't always a concern for them.

They pay the bills, they decide what to do and when.

Knowing you are doing the "right thing" by playing IT Nazi doesn't help when you find yourself looking for a new job.

by oz_media

But when he later comes to you and says it is a dumb idea and wants it changed what can you do? Change it.

by davidpmartin

I may be creating some controversy here, but I strongly believe it is not your place as an IT dept manager to be dictating corporate policy. Your job is to do your best to provide the best possible IT services to your 'customers', which in this case is the corporate employees. If the top management has given you explicit authority to control what employees can and cannot do on the Internet, that's different. But I'm guessing that is not the case, or you would not be posting this for our discussion.

Take the issues to the top management, along with pro's and con's of unlimited access vs. restricted access. They are the corporate policy makers, not you. By making these decisions unilaterally yourself, you are setting yourself up as a 'fall guy' who will be universally despised by users. If users cause loss of productivity by their abuse of 'surfing the net' on work-time, that is an issue for the executive suite to handle.

You are letting your executive managers off the hook by taking this issue on yourself. I certainly would NEVER put myself in your position.

by erich1010

Is the effort of locking down categories toward some specific goal? If not, you're a tyrant. If so, you're not a tyrant.

You mentioned bandwidth use. If the amount of data being used to do non-work related surfing is using up enough bandwidth to adversely affect work related surfing, then you have a specific goal for cutting it out.

If the non-work related surfing is illegal or violates company policy, then you have a specific goal for cutting it out.

If adverse consequences of surfing cost the company money in, for example, access to malicious sites, then you have a specific goal for cutting it out.

For any of the above, you're not cutting out the surfing to be mean. Though, the reasons for doing any such actions should be well documented and vetting with management.

by gulsath

I certainly don't want to be a jerk about this. I too like to catch some highlights from this weekend's game. But it is getting to be too much. We've already been hit by Netsky, we constantly have MalWare and at any one time, 5 - 10 people are listening the internet radio. It's just getting to be too much useage.

by tradergeorge

I do not think you a tyrant, merely a concerned person trying to do what is best for the company.

That being said, if you had the authority to do what you are trying to do, there would be no problem, no backlash. The fact that there is means that you have exceeded your authority, no matter how good your intentions.

You have to start with your immediate supervisor and work your way up, getting support for your policy. If you cannot do this, you must resign yourself to the alternative.

by jdclyde

Unless this comes from the top, and they are willing to stand by this all the time for everyone then it isn't a fight you should get into.

When we first got e-mail for the company five years ago (been here for six), I do all the in-house training. When I held the classes I had to hold a separeate class for the managers for two reasons.
One, they didn't want to look stupid in front of their workers (didn't mind looking stupid for me?)
Two, because they get out of hand and very quickly I found that some of the group e-mails they were sending while in class were not ones I wanted to open with everything on my screen also showing on the media projector.

It isn't my job to make them follow rules they don't care about. I can explain why, but most just don't care because it is all geek mumbo jumbo.

So I do what my boss and his boss see as what is important. I point out where I think a problem may be and see if they agree. If not, then it isn't a problem. If it turns into a problem later on, I am covered because I still have my e-mails where I notified them that this may turn into a problem.

Same idea as the exec looking at porn descussion. Why lose your job over something that you can't do anything about. Don't take it personal and put your ego back in check.

Good luck.

by gulsath

For the most part I think we are in agreement that I had the right intentions, but I went too far, too fast. I can accept that. What I'm doing now is keeping logs to track on a daily basis usage and see where my problems lie. My supervisor and I have a monitoring plan, and if necesary, will take any necessary actions.

by jaqui

after 8 hours regular time, it's time and a half, to a total of 8 regular hours pay, then double to a total of 8, then doubled again to a total of 8 hours paid.

so, if 20/hr for 8 = 160
then at time and half, it's 30 / hour, for 5.3 hours
then it's 40 an hour for 4 hours
then 80 for 2
then 160 an hour

it can be really nasty for employers that didn't keep important projects on track for completion huh?

by oz_media

WIth lawyers in the family I have been able to sue several of my past employers for various reasons, usually HR related.

I was recently approached by a US company wanting me to start branches here but have people work from home on straight commission. After explaining to them that BCESB (the old Labour Code replacement)mandates they would be out nearly $6,000 month before getting started they decided to try and operate from the south instead.

There are MANY ways for an employer to avoid the minimums you have stated, the most popular being an averaging agreement, in which they pay you NO overtime no matter how long you work. But only a fool would sign one. I have made an employer sign one though, in order for me to recover 2 years of unpaid overtime, long story, but much the same as the Keg issue. My brother is the enemy really, he represents corporations, but he's good to have on your side when needed I suppose. Others are industry specific, such as freelance artists, unsigned bands, real eastate agents, life insurance sales and a few other specific trades that all have different exceptions to the minimum wage rule while still being tacable employees.

The BC Employment Standards act is actually the same as every province in Canada with the exception of minimum wage and some taxation issues in Alberta. The BC Labour Relations Code was written mainly to support the employer whereas since it was standardized it was ammended to support the employee instead.

Just another perk I suppose, plus it keeps competitive business fair and the marketplace equal.

by gulsath

I didn't say the new connection did not have a speed problem because it was more reliable. Until this point, decision making about our content was my responsiblilty. I have already conceeded to the difference between management and IT. But nothing is set in stone. At a company where everyone wears many hats, the lines are grayed.

By the way, even in my little hick company we do 8 T1s to deal with and Citrix coming soon, but thanks for raising yourself up so high.

by harrybarracuda

Providing you have a clear and comprehensive acceptable use policy, approved by and signed by top management, you just post it to users and tell them that any site they can't get to is because of that.

If they want to argue and whine, let them do it to their managers.

Surfcontrol is better. Limit everyone to an hour's personal use a week, so they can check the PGA or shop online during their lunch hour. Block porn or other anti-social sites, or ones that could for whatever reason be detrimental to your business or your colleagues, but do it when your management team have asked you to and agree with the reasons for doing it.

Only someone really dumb would use the internet 10 hours a week for personal use when you are collecting surfing information, then whine to top management about their access being controlled ;)

Your policy should clearly state that computers and the internet are provided by AND OWNED by the company, and therefore privacy rights don't count. You have to be able to monitor email and internet traffic for security reasons.

Talk to your legal and personnel departments, or get your boss to do it.

Takes time, but no, you do not want to be the one seen to be making up the rules, merely enforcing them. If people choose to break the rules, it's the company that takes action, not you.

by jasper.van.rijn

You are responsible for implementing a policy of web site use. Let someone else decide what can and can't be viewed.

by sprl618

You are not being a tyrant if you are working to Save the company money and maintain/improve efficiency and productivity. Every employee should understand this basic principle.

If you can't get an ally in management to see the risks with the way some of the employees are using your IT resources, make an old-fashioned Paper Memo detailing a couple of specifics and then the general cases you need to address. Send Copies to more than Two line managers or relevant supervisors with the target address of the memo to the Division Mgr, VP. or company Head Honcho. Write the memo so they can see the risks in terms of Costs and potential losses/liabilities.

The line managers or supervisors should get orders to help you work out the policies or restrictions that meet company goals and employee needs.

If the memo is reasonable and completely ignored, put out your resume and find another company.

by brian.harwood

I always take my instructions from authorised management on issues like this, as do I also for all security matters, and I refer employees with grievances to management. I believe IT is there to implement management decisions, not make them, though sometimes we need may to influence them a little.

by john noises

IT should not have to decide what is allowed and what isn't in this situation.

Obviously IT have to analyse the issues and options open to the company, and give advice on the repercussions (in cost/service terms) of the available technical choices. However, once they understand the implications, only management can decide what is acceptable to them.

Once a clear policy has been decided upon - and IT need to check that it is sufficient to cover all areas of concern - then it is up to management to communicate the decision and IT to implement it.

Even if the policy was created at the behest of IT, that does not make IT the owner of the policy.

by mark

Gulsath:
Do not feel bad about doing your job.

I like your approach of using a consent form for accessing non-work realated sites and combined with the fact that this should only be out of working hours I feel that you are enforcing the right image and usage.

You have your usage policy, that I assume all staff have signed and agreed to as part of their employment conditions, so quote from it and enforce it.

I have gone as far as excluding hacking, gambling, banking and shopping sites along side the usual raft of sites. IMHO I think you could also block internet radio and IM since there is no need for them whilst you are at work.

You may have other techies that need access to hacking sites but make sure that they have signed an exemption form stating the T's & C's under which they get the access.

Hope that helps.

-Mark

by graeme

We find in larger organizations the amount of web "goofing off" - and so presumably the risk of inappropriate surfing - rises with distance from management. A copy of the "Web Usage by user report" sent to the appropriate manager usually is all it takes to get the manager to re-inforce policies that reduce surfing be it:

- clearer policy
- employee training
- site blocking

In some smaller organizations we work with managers allow general surfing as long as:

- the employees have received appropriate use training - which includes a security risk summary
- employee performance targets are met

In those organizations bandwidth costs (for the many differing Internet Radio Stations) are seen as a cost of doing business and appropriate allowance is made in the budget.

Support costs caused by the employee downloading bad content that causes a service call are "deducted" at time of their performance review

by harrybarracuda

"Support costs caused by the employee downloading bad content that causes a service call are "deducted" at time of their performance review"

I bet *that* keeps the bad downloads to a minimum! Mind you, that actually seems more tyrannical than anything on this thread

by gambi

I am under the impression that most of the replies are from people who are not in a position to apply such policies - but whatever anyway.

Gulsath, I am in the same situation and from what I have read you have got quite a time on your hands, my suggestion is that you put a speed limit (without telling your users) on non-work related sites during business hours. Yes one could argue that the users will then spend MORE time on the net because it is slower - this will infact happen but it will allow the users who have work and those who want to work to get something done.

My argument to support blocking is quite simply this - do your work and bring in income for the business to continue - no business no work, then everyone is unhappy.

Another point to consider is posting or e-mailing the line stats to relevant managers to inform them as to what their subordinates are doing during work time (I think that you will have to get approval for this) - I don't say that when you are at work you must work 100% of the time but effectively that is what you are paid for and the terms you agreed to when you said "yes I will work here for that amount at those times".

Oh well back to work for what I am being paid for...

by munezrhep

Before I was able to use p2p to download any files, from adult to documents. And I was the one who usually fix the office computers if they're busted with viruses and other destructive progs. I was aware and still did it.

Now, I know that your users know what will happen if they don't follow policies being implemented by IS depts. They just don't care. And the most important thing is policies are so easy to ignore, especially when it comes to using the Internet. It's like "Hey! It's public anyway. I have rights."

No. You're not a tyrant. You just felt it becuase maybe once you were also in our shoes and your Net admin did the same thing.

Best regards.

by thinckerman

I am a CEO of a technology consulting firm with many years of experience in large and small comp-anies.

As long as modern organizations continue to blur the boundaries between work and non-work life by giving employees cell phones, home faxes and home PC's to access their e-mail they will have to provide some portion of the "regular" workday for employess to get some of their personal "stuff" done.

Although it is a security risk to surf non-vetted sites, it is also not the employees problem to be responsible for malicious websites.

We need better web security and bigger punishmen ts for web abusers and a little more consideration for the emerging convergent lifestyle.

Have a good one.......... RSC

by gmkovich

Gulsath,
With over 15 years as an IT hands-on guy and director, I know
feel your pain. You have a manager and if you are feeling heat
over implementing the word of the policies, then either the
policy needs to be changed or the manager needs to send a
communique that explains why - no exceptions.
To help your manager send that message, undo the settings on
SonicWall, and then run reports on bandwidth usage by user that
the SonicWall can provide you. Unify the IP address with your
DHCP server output, so that you have time stamps.
Roll that up with a weekly bandwidth utilization from MRTG and
you can build a good story for either purchasing more
bandwidth, or opening someone's eyes that this is a company
resource, like a long distance call and it does indeed cost.
You are always going to have users who think the rules are not
for them - this is where a good manager steps up and either
does the right thing or brings the security policies in line with
the corporate attitude.
If you are the top IT guy, then you need to craft your report for
the layman manager, otherwise their eyes will glaze over.
In my experience, it was the same ones who moaned about not
having access to eBay who also didn't want to change their
passwords.

Good luck!
Greg

by paul

Gulsath, in my experience of heading up IT departments, these type of restrictions never go down well. All you need to be sure of is that your policies act in the best interests of the company. Internet radio is one that I typically let through - we were on a flat rate connection and if people want to listen to the radio during work, so be it.

My restrictions have typically been very light, eBay and shopping sites I have no problem with at all.

The key to a succesful company is happy and motivated staff. It is important to maintain this feeling, and to be cautious not to bring in a parent / child feel to the way you restrict access.

My 2c worth...

P

by vwilliam

You are 100% on the mark. It is a business system and should be used for the companies business only. Ordering online (and other recreational activities) should be done after hours ~ and preferably from their home computers. As IT Administrators, we have enough other (and frequently more important) issues to spend our time on.

by andeanderson

Actually, it is not up to IT to decide what the systems and internet usage are. We just enforce what management says to do. If management wants to throw out or ignore a policy, they probably didn't understand anyway, it is their nickle. Just document the progression of events and what steps you attempted to avoid problems and the violations involved. Documentation is a key to your protection and the ability to get things working the way they need to.

It is ITs responsibility to make management, no matter how large or small the company is, aware of the hazards and problems created by having an open access policy.

It only takes one large problem, system infection or lost customer due to an open access policy and they will sit-up and start to either create or start enforcing a controlled access policy.

by wndwman

First thing I see is that you work at a credit union. This is a financial place. I would let senior management know that malware is out there on the internet and to allow people to surf were they want may expose the credit union to litigation. If financial data was relayed via this hidden software, then anyone of your customer's financial data could be at risk.

Working at a financial institution requires the strictest of policies, because your not just at risk with the credit union's money, your at risk with every single member's accounts. If your company chair cannot see this the costs that could be involved, then I am agasp.

Opening up your company and other's accounts to possible infiltration, theft of information is something I would try to strike a cord with them. They understand money, and not just waste of time money. They understand lawyers, and litigation.

by dlandrum1

I have all the responsibility and none of the firepower to enforce a policy that is 1 paragraph long. It basically says, if too much personal activity is noticed, we will have to curtail it. I bought spectrasoft and installed on the 5 largest offenders, based on the reports from my Watchguard Firewall appliance. The reports I drew up after Spectrasoft was in place for 15 days, looked at 3 random days for each person and showed date, site, time site was open, time site was in the foreground and active(to eliminate the excuse that it MUST have been a pop-up). The lists on each person showed a MINIMUM of 2 hours daily - not BEFORE or AFTER working hours, and NOT during lunchtime, but in the prime of the work day. The sites were shopping, jokes, checking personal AOL, HOTMAIL and other email accounts, e-bay and of course - Fantasy Football.

I was forced to open up the Sports and Leisure sites on the Firewall list because too many of the upper management members are involved in Fantasy Football leagues.

I have documented everytime that I have been forced to back down the strength of the system security.

I know I will be blamed when a shutdown occurs, however, I will have ammunition to refute that blame.

Any IT Admin that works in an environment where the buy in from above on system security is strong, is indeed lucky!

by awfernald

However, you should monitor the bandwidth, and then evaluate how much is being used for "non-work" related issues, then approach your management and let them know that due to the internet radio, chat, streaming video, golf scores, weather updates, mp3 downloads, etc.... that you need to up the internet connectivity bandwidth by x% at x$ per month/year. Then let the business owners/managers decide if they want to pay that amount to have people wasting company resources.

If they have the budget, and this is what they want to spend it on, then it's not IT's responsibility to stop them. It is IT's responsibility to let them know the financial impact of it though.

by racote

IT should not be the corporate nanny. If you purchase certain products, like Checkpoint Firewall, you can give the rights and responsibilities of managing net blocking to HR. (No I don't work for Checkpoint)

They are the ones who have to deal with issues of rights and corporate correctness. Also it keeps them from pointing the finger at IT because someone happened to peek into the cubicle of someone else who was looking at "inappropriate material" and decides to file a complaint citing a hostile environment.

by stevenberkholz

In reference to HR, IT is a facilitator.
I have automated daily reports for HR that grep for "inapropriate" words in URL requests and such, but I do not look at them; HR should.
I assist HR, I am not a company cop.
Another example is when HR comes to me and says Manager A thinks Joe is in his email too much, make me a report; I will retort "Do you really need the report? If the manager has an issue, he should tell the employee. Done". Luckily, my bluntness is respected here.
This is not to say that I am not responsible. If an outbound email gets stuck because of a bad address or size issue and it is "innapropriate", I do my part and send it to HR, I just don't spend my day looking for problems.

by kero54

It is the same in all companies, I think. Senior management asks the IT what has to be done to protect the network, and then sign off on the policy that is needed. But then, when the complaints start, they want to back off. But as long as you have the policy signed by them, DON'T back off. Your job is to protect the network, not be well liked.

by mm8ball609

I even go so far as to allow only access to certain sites neede in the business. Surf and IM at home, not on my time!

by medinats

It is a combination of what you are hearing here. There are many Fortune 500 companies that do not allow Internet surfing during business hours. Their reasoning is that a person that comes to work is there to work. Still in others such as Ford, they institue a proxy login to allow only certain people to get to the internet and surf about. Still others allow it all. I think you need to do as others have stated before develope a presentation and bring a machine that is infected with some really nasty sypware. These visual aids along with real time data showing cost of work realted to fixing PC issues and worker down time along with bandwith utilization cost will sway most of the people in management. To illustrate say you have 25 infected PC's taking 2-3 hours each to fix, then your time at $30/hour times 3 times 25 equal 2300 roughly. The next step is to show that cost of surfing against the cost of your T1's for the month. And on and on till some one in the room says "Wow! we are spending that much??!!" or "Who is working here???!!".
Make sure the presentation only presents data, when you cross the line to oppinion then you will run a foul of the "Great Place to Work" feeling. This in itself is a tight rope of grey area. How much do you lock down the machine without making your office feel like a cage. How many sites are blocked to protect/impede needless internet use.
There are alot of vaild points and ultimately it will be Management that makes the final call. Just make sure it is the right one for your business for business reasons. Get your ducks in a row and make your data air tight. Less leaks the less of a chance there is that you will not get your policy implemented for the right reasons.

by esteck

Are you a lawyer? If not, or if you do not provide legal counsel to your company don't sweat it. The reason a policy, intended to monitor or control employee behavior, is implemented is to show that the legal entity of the company does not support or condone the illegal or offensive behavior. Thus if an company is sued because an employee of the company did something against the policy, the company would have a better legal position in court.

If the higher ups want to disregard the policy for certain people or at certain times then the company is again subject to litigation becuase it can be argued that it was a policy on paper only and not implemented and inforced at the company.

Think how much fun an opposing lawyer would have when they found out that the company ingored a serious policy. What other policies might also be ignored? Maybe age, sex, or medical discrimination, wrongful termination policies, etc. The companies legal defense would be that much harder and more expensive (legal fees) to defend.

An interesting idea: Go out and surf all the porn you can. Show it to everyone who will look at it. Get fired. Then sue the company for discrimination becuase they only enfored the policy they had against you and not the others who had also violated policy. (this is not a recommended course of action but an interesting idea)

The problem is that you have become the defacto enforcer of this policy. Probably, the HR or legal department should police the enforcement of policies, just like they would for a drug usage policy.

Your company management needs to decide if they really want the policy. If they do then enforce it, if they don't then modify it or get rid of it.

by scwelles

IT is to serve the company, and the company means the management. It is human nature to feel exhilaration from controlling people, that's why tyranny exists in the first place. Just find out the management's philosphy, and implement it.

by c0d3r

I've had the same problem myself, though my management has been much more supportive. If they hadn't been, I'd have stuck to my guns. Allowing Bob to stream internet Radio is definitely going to affect Sue's capability to get her work done, since it is using resources in a non-productive way. In the end, we, as IT professionals can help craft policy, but really our job is to configure our devices to enforce the policy as it is. What does your company policy say about internet usage? If there isn't a policy against what folks are doing, then getting one in place is step number one.

by rrosca

I realize that you're more interested in a policy paper than a technical paper but maybe this can help.

The sonic wall firewall has a blacklist of sorts. If you employ it it blocks a lot of internet sites. If you choose to forego the automatic blacklist and put in the domains people shouldn't be perusing you will gain a lot more control over what is being blocked but you'll have to work harder.

Is there really a great reason for blocking www.espn.com? Are people so incredibly irresponsible that they will waste hours and hours of work time and waste precious bandwidth staying glued to espn? As far as I'm concerned, if you're not doing real time internet work (like online investing) you can live with a little bandwidth clutter AND it will get some of the workers off your back.

Of course this is a matter of policy and you should have the backing of the powers that be but by implementing a clever little hosts file (check out http://accs-net.com/hosts/get_hosts.html to download an excellent solution to fighting spyware) and by manually blocking places like bittorrent.com you're going a long way towards protecting your network without annoying your coworkers.

You're trying to do a good thing but you're trying to police the network a little too much.
I suggest finding a balance. I think you'll find that if you give people their musicmatch.com access and block the likes of kazaa, you're doing precisely the right thing.

by bagmaster50

Load up this thread at work and let the Management read it.

I've just finished a XP rollout for a major mortgage company. They were still on Windows 95 and the users had all kinds of spyware and virus's on thier systems. The emplyees were advised of the rollout far in advance and made aware that internet usage would be severly curtailed with the new OS. It was a highly customized install of XP to such an extend that people that had company units at home had to bring them in for imaging. Needless to say when they used them at home for work thier internet connection was routed through the company vpn and server which allowed the company to enforce the IT policy very effectively. If they wanted to surf the net unrestricted they had to use their personal computer for it.

At the site I worked at the IT department doesn't set policy, that is controlled by the company home office. Any changes to internet access was modified from the home office by remoting into the local servers.

by stevenberkholz

All of our users must go through a web proxy to leave our facility.
This proxy only allows access to the sites that are entered in the list.
Only the sites that are required to do thier jobs.
With this paradigm, you can not really say that we are blocking anything.
Internet access is not a right of employment, it is a tool.
We are using it to save money and time by not requiring the employee to have to make a phone call to get info or order a parts catalogue and wait for it to be mailed.
To be Employee friendly, we have also allowed access to banking and news at lunch time.
And for new requirements or imediate needs, we also provide a "research" terminal that has full Internet access. This machine is out in the open so there is no funny business going on with it.

I gues I am saying that your company is using the wrong paradigm regarding Internet access.
Is it to check PGA results or is it a tool to do business faster and cheaper?
If it is the first, you might as well just cancel the connection completely and save money.

by manumit

It is for exactly the reason that you point out that many organisations (at least is Australia) are moving away from URL filtering and blocking but are making use of monitoring software like the excellent WebSpy. By using a monitoring software, and letting all staff know that you ARE proactively monitoring (which can be done even by the local managers rather than IT staff) and incorporating that into your AUP you alleviate your burden. You still can provide a full report for management with all violations (e.g. weekly or monthly) and by whom. I know from experience that the results are astounding and once staff experience that they indeed are being monitored during offie hours you will also gain back some valuable bandwidth.
And YES, IT is not the Internet police, regardless of policies. If management has no buy-in into their own policies then they will never be upheld anyway.
Hope this helps...

by mdm

Tyranny isn't the issue discussed. You were hired to do what IT people do. You were not hired to be the morale, moral, productivity monitor, social conscience or anything other than the 'IT Guy'. The question you posed comes up over and over. IT people seem to think because they have the 'keys to the kingdom' they have to apply subjective judgements with respect to all things related to IT. The fact is simply, you do your job and let all other operatives of the company do theirs. If the 'boss' doesn't care, then it is not up to you.

As to policy, by definition, a policy is a broad guidline for operating a business. It is not a license to specify who does what to whom and when. All you need to do is your job which may include informing principals as to pros and cons of using assets which you have been hired to maintain and take instructions accordingly.

No, you are not the moral conscience for the company. You are not the productivity monitor for the company. You are not a 'tyrant'. You just have forgotten what your function really is.