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by nd_it 1 view

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I am looking to pursue a Bachelor's degree to move into managment in IT. I currently have an Associates degree in computer networking and 5 years of experience. What I am wondering is what kind of degree to pursue. I live about 50 miles from the closest University, but I can take online courses from them, I am looking more toward a Libral Arts degree, rather then a CS degree, and then possibly pursuing my MBA. The company has no descretion on what type of degree I should pursue as long as it's a four year degree. Will having a liberal arts degree and experience and training help me move up? Any comments are greatly appreciated.

30 replies

by oz_media

Taking a course on the net is a major no no. Sure one employer may hire you but most will probably just laugh at the diploma. For something like A+ ecrtification or aven MCSE certs online study would be OK , but to earn a bachelors degree online, you will be up against others who have attended the college and they will get the job before you unless you already have an in.

How is 50 miles an issue? 50 miles is nothing to attend a good course or University, unless of course you have a disability of some sort.

As for which degree you get, sorry to say it, but as an online grad, it doesn't matter which course you take, you are going to get the same responses when seeking work.

In closing, why would ANY company require that you have a bachellors degree to enter management? I know CO's without even simple Business administration qualifications, perhaps the company is just placing a blockade in the road to deter qualified applicants. It never ceases to amaze me how some HR's put such high expectations on staff, then they pay you as if you were a telemarketer.

I'd go to college (if that's what you want) and get a job somewhere else where you can earn what you are trained to earn. But a BA to get into management is crazy, I had a friend/coworker that was with one company and did the same, he got his BA in corporate management and communications.

He went to school part time while working full time and even with field experience and years on the job, he couldn't find work for the life of him, his intent was also to get into management but a less qualified person was given the job at a lower rate of pay.

Sorry for being a downer, but I have never seen it pulled off as predicted. I was asked to return to school and finish my communications degree by one employer, I just quit and went to thier competition, who hired me in a snap for higher wages.

If your current company doesn't see value in you and requires you to get a BA then go somewhere else where you are appreciated and tell employer 'A' to go back to school hmiself and learn what progressive corporate development hinges on, it isn't college that's for sure.

by kajer

I'll have to disagree that a degree earned online is worthless. Right now I can a bachelor's degree through any major university in my state, and do it completely online. It does not make me any less educated because I got my degree by taking courses online. Also, having taken both traditional courses and online courses, I find that you have to be more disciplined and more dedicated to getting your degree that way, because you don't have structured class time. You have to make the decision to go out and log on to your class and to do the assignments on time. You don't have an instructor holding your hand. Also most of the courses I have taken, you have to do some sort of group project, so you have to learn to work together with complete strangers. I think that a potential employer would appreciate someone who had the discipline to succeed at online courses.

by oz_media

When I was in Automotive trainging for six years, we did a loty of self study but then wrote all test in a classroom environment as we were ready for them. BUT...we were in schol daily.

There is no doubt that with proper discipline that you will get a better understanding on your own, BUT....most employers don't see it that way and merely see that you didn't attend a school but self studied. SOME may appreciate or understand it but that's not the general feeling of most employers that I've seen.

I did better with no certs than I would have with a correspondence course. I could show my work but didn't have any paperwork that detracted from my learned knowledge. It doesn't really make sense, but neither do most employers.

by dc_guy

Another reader posed a similar question a week or two ago. I'll tell you the same thing I told him. Study something that is way out of your current specialty. It will exercise a whole new part of your mind and make you both smarter and wiser. You'll start seeing connections and relationships that you never knew existed. One thing that is in very high demand in the USA today is people who can read and understand Mideastern languages. The reason is obvious and it won't be going away any time soon. Yet American students simply refuse to study them, they're still in love with French and Latin. Knowing a second language will expand your mind in amazing ways: you'll actually have more than one way to think at your disposal, what a resource! And your market value will soar, if you are not only an IT expert but also fluent in Farsi. If all of this sounds interesting except my choice of languages, at least pick one that has solid commercial prospects, like Spanish or Chinese. Good luck!

by nd_it

Thanks for the replies. I just wanted to clarify that the degree is not all online. The credits are earned through corespondence, the assisgments are mailed to you, and the tests can be taked on the campus site, which works better for me since I work full time. The company isn't requiring me to go back to school, it is just something that I feel I need to do to hopefully open up doors for me in the future. Although they don't require me do go to school, they do have a great tutition reinbursment program, so why not take advantage?

by oz_media

If you are studying and learning from correspondence and not a professor, your certs will not be worth the paper they are written on. Perhaps for your existing employer but not most.

by nd_it

Everyone debates the question of no degree and certs, and a CS degree and no experience. Well I have an associates degree and currently no certs but looking to obtain the CCNA to build upon my experience, I am currently a team lead in the IT department, and enjoy the position since it gives me some "management" experience thus why I was looking at pursuing a BA to move into upper management. Can a IT professional in today's economy and tight job market still make it up the corporate ladder with an Associates degree + experience + a couple certs? An Associates degree is still better than no degree right? I have gotten a lot out of this degree.

P.S. The company will reinburse me as well for the certifications. It all falls under education.

by oz_media

To work up the corporate ladder really, but you do need an employer who believes in you.

I soared to upper management with a communications regulator in one year because of my drive. I didn't even have A+ or grade 12 at the time, yet they believed in me and paid me the big bucks while I learned.

Sure this is not a common scene at all but it is completely possible if the company has vision and you sell yourself not your certs.

by nd_it

Thanks for the reply, this has helped quite a bit. I understand that is isn't always the case to move up, but it is possible. I too believe you can sell yourself to a company and not sell the paper you have. I don't think I would be happy going back either, too much time, and too much strees, I have seen it here already with other co-workers trying to go to school, raise a family, and be successful and their jobs.

by dc_guy

For any job that you're competing for, how many of the other applicants have university degrees? These days, a lot of them even have graduate degrees. People with PhD's, much less MBA's, are out there competing for YOUR job. Whom do you think the company will hire? I understand how hard it is to pursue a university degree while working full-time and supporting a family. You have to ask yourself whether putting up with this hardship will pay off in the long run. Too many Americans are short-term thinkers. The older you get, the more difficult it will become to tolerate adversity due to unemployment or simply less-than-optimum employment; you have less stamina and you may very well have some health problems that increase your need for income and comfort while decreasing your ability to work, relocate, and save. This is a decision your whole family will have to make. You may have to tighten your belts in order to hire someone to help with the chores and child care; don't make the mistake of expecting your spouse to take up all the slack. The kids may have to understand that nobody really needs designer sneakers but that they, too, will one day wish the family had enough money to put them through college, so they don't have to make the choice you're facing. I have a university degree and a resume full of quite varied experience, and I've been unemployed for 27 months during the past six years. The world is changing drastically. Choices that worked for members of previous generations are not working now. Be skeptical of their advice. (Including mine, of course.)

by oz_media

Not the person they have to pay nutty wages to.

"I have a university degree and a resume full of quite varied experience, and I've been unemployed for 27 months during the past six years."
Overqualified perhaps? or is that just what you heard many times?

by onbliss

A degree is always useful. Well if the company is going to reimburse, it is just the icing on the cake.
As you want to go up the corporate ladder and be in the management, I think business management or other degrees associated with business would be helpful. I agree degree in CS narrows down the industries that seeks college degree.

business degrees could help you in non-IT industries too.

by howard894

get a bachelor degree in management, then an MBA. If you have the time pursue a PMP certification.

by tomsal

I agree that in-class training is the best way to learn, particularly with hands - on exercises.

However I disagree that ALL distance education is valueless. It depends on the training method.

For example if we are talking all correspondence courses yes I tend to lean towards wondering of the true value of the educational experience that is giving the student.

BUT there are some programs were you interact with the professor (and other assistant professors) one a fairly regular basis, even through video and voice.

My sis-in-law is taking a distance education course like this. She talks to her professor a lot. They use whiteboards and file sharing technologies.

She has told me (btw this is someone who already earned a BA through the traditional classroom environment at a nationally recognized University) the learning experience is very good and comparable to that of her university days.

Finally if the school is accredited, the value of the diploma bears no less or more weight than that of any other diploma-giving institution in the country...at least as seen through a legal/official point of view.

by mlayton

If you are going to pursue a degree that you would like to help you with management, Liberal Arts is a good place to start. I recommend anything that gets you outside the CS degree to be able to see the company from other points of view: if it is a good liberal arts curriculum, you should have some project management, some accounting, etc. It is the skills of being able to apply your body of knowledge to someone else's problem and see the company from their point of view that will make a good manager, and I have found that companies value people who make the effort to step outside of their comfort zone to learn new things and apply new solutions to old problems. Just my 2 cents!

by nd_it

The liberal arts degree is from the the highest acedemic public university of the state, not from strictly online college, so the degree is from an acredited institution that is well known in the country. I see to what many are saying about distance education by not getting the classroom and professor expierience. However, I have attended a state university before, and you were just a number out of 300 others taking the class with you. There really wasn't the one on one with the professor, of course this is going to vary from school to school. I do agree that there is different choices for our present generation then there was in my father's, and I think colleges and universities are starting to realize that many need to further their education, but have a harder time doing the tradional classroom work because of their current career, family, etc. thus the schools are offering distance education, online classes, etc. so those people can further their education with something that meets their busy schedule.

by oldefar

You don't indicate where you work, but the respect you earn where you currently are will not necessarily transfer between divisions in a large corporation, or between companies if you find yourself needing or wanting to move on. Degrees and certifications transfer much easier than a good reputation (although a bad reputation may follow you everywhere).

Some of the people you deal with in the future may have a strong association with their own credentials, a sense of worth linked to the initials after their name rather than their capabilities. To these individuals, your abilities may be perceived as a threat to their own prestige. Policies, procedures, or common sense will not overcome the manager whose own position was won by his degree and not his ability. These individuals will often become significant roadblocks to your advancement on proven performance alone.

Advanced degrees are also viewed as market collateral. For a company, sending in "Dr. Somebody" to discuss an issue is a better sell than "Mr. Somebody" regardless of the expertise and experience the individual brings. Having the initials or title adds to the value you bring your employer for this reason alone.

Since the company has offered to pay the cost, I recommend you pursue a degree. An MBA carries move transferrable value than a masters in technology overall. That being the case, focus on bachelors that moves you towards that MBA.

Who said life was fair?

by nd_it

I work in a manufacturing facility in a rual state, where agriculture and industry are the main economic drivers. There aren't a whole lot of professional career paths, the wages are sub par, and there is a lot of outmigration to higher paying states. There is however, great institutions of higher education here, and I love it here, and want to stay here.

I did just recently transfer from one division to another, to take a lead role, and a salary increase. I was offered this position because of my past experience in networking at the previous division. Even though my specialty is networking, I like knowing and learning the different aspects of how the company functions, I have been the project manager in projects that don't involve much of my networking expertise, but the ability to understand manufacturing processes, budgets, and how IT can better serve the company.

by oldefar

you never know what the future holds.

Watch the final 20 minutes of the Wizard of Oz - the artificial emphasis on degrees was noted back in the 1930's.

From personal experience I know it applied in the 1970's, 1980's, 1990's, and today.

If you can afford the time, getting the degree will cost nothing more in your current situation. Once you have it, you have it. You will expand a bit of your knowledge, and if you ever need to have that degree for a promotion or new position, you will have it. Mighty cheap insurance.

Check out the bios of senior management at most public companies, and you will likely see a reference to their having an advanced degree in something from somewhere. You don't see a GPA, a reference to any published thesis, or any other indicator of success. Just the degree/from/when. Look at any technical gathering and see the bios on the featured speakers. Read up on the entreprenaurs and see how many list their education in their bios, especially when pursuing venture capital.

Perhaps you will want to share your knowledge and experience with newbies when you hit 50. You might even be asked to teach by those who have had a chance to see you in action. However, those opportunities dry up quick when you lack an accredited bachelors or advanced degree.

by maxwell edison

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When you get a degree from a major university, even if some of the courses are offered on-line, it's still a legitimate degree. If the University of NameYourState offers an option to take on-line courses, no one will ever know that you didn't sit in a classroom. You'll still get the degree, nonetheless.

I think having business skills and a business education is a nice compliment to managing in the IT fields. How to apply technology to improve the business model could be an attractive combination.

Do you absolutely need a degree to excel in business and management? No. But your chances - and potential income - are greatly enhanced with a degree than without one.

by kajer

I can see where you are coming from, but I foresee a change in that kind of attitude as online degrees and distance learning become more mainstream. Things are already shifting in that direction. I myself am taking classes this semester that I could only take online, because they are not offered anywhere nearby that I can afford. I like online courses much better because I can move at my own pace, whether it be slower or faster than the rest of the class. I also don't play well with others most of the time so if I don't have to deal with other people face to face then all the better.

by howard894

In residence or online should not matter. The University of Phoenix offers most, if not all of their MBA programs on line and they are a very respected "school." Lots of schools offer on-line programs. Your diploma will not say "Joe's internet college" unless you actually went to Joe's internet college and they are out there, i.e., schools accredited only by a private council in one state and not regional or national as recognized by the dept of education. Those are the "schools" you stay away from. I took the last 10 classes of my bachelor degree on line 4 years ago and no one will ever know how I earned the credit unless I tell. My school and my degree is fully accredited. I am currently taking a Master's program on-line and it too is regionally and nationally accredited.

by joe.lamontagne

I would suggest only looking at a college or univeristy that is accredited by a national organization. For example at the university I teach at in Michigan, we are accredited by North Central (NCA).

by rocketanne

I have never been sorry that I finished college. My liberal arts degree has been the door opener many times and has the side benefit of making me the Trivial Pursuit champ. I got the tech training long after college (at a community college) and have also gotten lots of employer paid tech training over the years. Being able to think and communicate effectively in writing and speaking is what got me noticed. A degree shows persistence and drive to succeed - qualities most employers value.

The contributor who suggested studying a language is also right, although I'd do the language as a minor and get a more mainstream degree - like Business, Communications, or History. Studying history prepares you to think on a higher level. It is the BA of choice for many who pursue graduate degrees in Business or Law.

Oh, and as to the distance learning - just be sure the degree you will receive is a regular or extension degree from the University - not a 'correspondence' degree and you won't find it being discounted. Shop around for your online school and find out first what the degree will show. Remember that if you'll be taking the classes online, you can take them from any school that offers what you need. Many do not require onsite testing or any meetings at all. If you do choose the nearby university, take a couple of onsite classes as you proceed - it's good for your head to be in the classroom too.
Good luck.

by dc_guy

" 'I have a university degree and a resume full of quite varied experience, and I've been unemployed for 27 months during the past six years." ' Overqualified perhaps? or is that just what you heard many times?"

Neither. Several instances of bad luck. A hostile takeover in one case, a company that was poorly managed and lost market share in another, etc. Totally impersonal "downsizing" in all cases. It just took several months to find another job each time. I have no doubt that without the degree it would have taken much longer.

We have a guy here with a PhD doing exactly the same work and making exactly the same salary as the rest of us. But he was hired first!

And "overpaid" is not the problem it once was, especially if you don't EVER list salaries on your resume. Nobody is bashful about offering you far less than you're currently earning, and sometimes you're glad to take it.

by cowbucs

I have taken numerous course online and I am a few classes away from my BS in CIS and guess what I have had numerous employers chasing me so much so that I was able to choose between 3 jobs that I applied for. It sure was nice to send "thanks, but no thanks" letters. You may have had an experience with an employer that was negative towards online degrees but there is no way that you can sit there and assume that you know what all employers will do when they find out that an applicant has an online degree. So to anyone looking at taking online courses...don't be discouraged by the negativity. Earning your degree online is the same as earning it the traditional way. The bottom line is that you earned it. So there!

by oz_media

Your knowledge is your knowledge whether online or in a classroom setting. There will be some people more successful after studying at home than thoose that were in school.

It just isn't a widely accepted format YET and most employers look for the institution before the qualification. I've hired and fired enough people for major corporations to see it first hand whether I agree with it or not it's a reality. Those that attend a reputable school will generally beat out those that have studied at home.

by aldanatech

Try Capella University (www.capella.edu). You can get a B.S. in Network Technology or a M.S. in Network Architecture and Design or in Information Security, and several other IT fields. This is University of fully online and it is perfect for people such as yourself. I go there myself, and it is great. They will probably transfer most of the credits for your Associates degree, and they might even count some of your experience for credit. They also count certifications for credit if you have any. You should check it out.

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