Direct From TechProGuild
This is page 2 of the discussion. Read the opening post
After Hours
This is page 2 of the discussion. Read the opening post
by chug
I agree that given the choice I would much rather not deal with rebates, and I agree that the reason retailers do them is because they know most will never even be mailed in. BUT, until the general public just quits buying things on rebates, rebates will never go away and there are just too many good deals to pass up to not use them. I do probably 20 or 30 rebates each year for at least the last 5 or 6 years and have NEVER had one that I didn't get the money. I get maybe 1 per year that I do get a rejection notice for but I always keep copies of everything I mail in (I just scan them and keep PDF copies on my PC instead of keeping paper, but keep paper if that's your only option) and any time I've had one rejected I contact the company immediately and they have me resend the copies and it's always accepted after that.
Also, almost all rebates can be tracked on web sites now and this makes it much easier. I check the status on my rebates online about 2 weeks after I mail it to make sure it was accepted, and then about a week after the deadline the form said I should get my check to see if the check had been issued yet.
The one BIG complaint I do have is that it takes so dang long to get the rebate check after it's received. With e-mail notification on most rebates now you know exactly when they received it and most rebates take at least full months to get the check after it's received. CompUSA rebates are the WORST, they usually take close to 6 months! This is even when the rebate form clearly states "8 to 10 weeks" or maybe "12 weeks". With some very rare exceptions I never get rebates within the time frame the form says I should. One thing I would like to see is somebody (some state attorney generals maybe) go after these companies and make them stick to the time frames they advertise.
Right on the money. I don't even want to think of how much money I've been hosed out of because of the rebate scam.
I really like sorry can't have two rebates for the same two products go to the same address. Even though I bought two of the widgets. I would rather just buy something without the d__m rebate than get ripped again or buy online. Rebates just suck!!---ch
by hypnotoad72
Scam.
MAXTOR said I lost out on a $100 rebate, claiming I did not include the original receipt. That was a lie.
COREL said I didn't send in the Paint Shop Pro rebate form in soon enough. That was a lie.
MICROSOFT said I didn't include sufficient proof of
purchase information, so I had to carve up my other OS box.
Whatever, but I did get the rebate. (which reminds me, I've lost
out on OTHER rebates (usually 'competitive rebates') because of this
box-cutting bull.
Been 3 months now and I'm still waiting for $20 from another company as
well. Pity I didn't get "We're telling you to bugger off because
____" as I'd love to add in their name too.
Mail order or nothing, I won't play the infantile game anymore.
They don't care, apart from going back on their word using excuses they
know we can't prove against (they hold the evidence!)
And thanks to open source, more and more rebates become a non-issue.
by dwightp
Recently purchased a color laser printer thru Staples. It had a $50.00 Staples rebate. Because my arm was in a cast, a Staples manager at the store, who sold the product, filled out the rebate form and attached all the correct slips and UPC code. Several weeks later, rec'd notice that the rebate had been rejected because the attached UPC was the wrong one. Back I went to Staples and showed the store manager the email. She told me she was sorry but there was nothing that could be done and she only filled out the forms for me as a "customer service". Took out my Staples card and asked if I could borrow a pair of scissors as I WOULD NOT SHOP at a store that treated it's customers the way Staples did. She asked me to wait a moment and came back with $50.00 is discount coupons (had to buy almost $500.00 to get the $50.00 savings). I mailed my cut-up card to the VP in charge of customer service, along with the discount coupons and a letter and copy of all the rebate documentation. About 2 weeks later; I got a new card in the mail saying they were replacing the damaged card! NEVER AGAIN! Unless the rebate is an "instant" rebate, I will not buy the product and NEVER AGAIN at Staples!
by sql_joe
Never had a problem with the Staples Easy Rebate program. I am wary of others. I think sometimes they're just very slow (accruing interest). Its been more than once that I've received a check in the mail from someone and had to do research, only to learn it was a rebate check from over a year ago!
George
by j sheesley
With all all the talk around here lately of MacOS vs. Linux vs.
Windows, it got me thinking lately about my old Microsoft Alternative
OS Of Choice - OS/2. Long ago having lost the desktop war with Windows,
OS/2 quickly faded to obscurity. Even IBM announced earlier this year
that it had decided to stop selling it.
But,
that didn't keep me from firing up the old OS and seeing if it would
still work as an alternative. To that end, I loaded up FireFox 1.5 for OS/2. With a little bit of help from Innotek's Font Engine and Java,
I got the machine mostly updated to a level where it's actually running
fairly well and reasonably up to date for daily use. This particular
post is being written on Firefox 1.5 and OS/2.
I've been able
to do most of my work today on OS/2. It's been at least as stable and
efficient as my SuSe Linux 10 test machine, and in some cases even more
so. For example, I've discovered when I open a multiple set of
bookmarks as tabs under Firefox on Linux, Firefox becomes good for
nothing else until the tabs have mostly all finished loading. On OS/2
(as under Windows), you can continue to do other things.
Can I do everything
under OS/2? No. There are still a few holes that make it a little less
than a 100% desktop replacement mostly for software reasons. Until
OpenOffice 2.0 appears for OS/2 early next year, I'm stuck using
StarOffice 5.2 or an old version of Microsoft Office for basic
wordprocessing or spreadsheets, creating a bit of a compatibility
problem more so than a functional problem. For most things however,
there's usually an OS/2 workaround if you're REALLY a diehard user.
IBM may be halting the sale of OS/2 but you can still buy a new version of it called eComStation.
This is a licensed version of OS/2 that is sold by Serenity Systems. It
includes updates and new commercial programs that may make OS/2 an even
more viable Microsoft alternative. I'm thinking about giving that a
look at this point.
Is OS/2 as fast as Linux or Windows? Hard to tell really. My OS/2
machine is an old 450Mhz Pentium III with 320Mb of RAM. My Linux test
machine is over 1Ghz and my production XP box is 2.8Ghz. By raw
horsepower, naturally this box is going to be left in the dust no matter what OS you put on it.
However, OS/2 was designed to run in 8Mb of RAM on a 486, so it should
be a LOT more efficient overall. I'll have to put it through some
actual tests and let you know.
The
moral to the story however is that sometimes when you're trying to
decide between two things, sometimes the actual answer comes from a
third - and sometimes unexpected - alternative.
by master3bs
Interesting. I had been wondering about OS/2 recently and whether
it could still be used productively. I never used it myself,
although I did come across some OS/2 install floppies a few years back.
Out of curiosity, I am now downloading eComStation. It should be a fun adventure.
by wcerniglia9
Many years ago I installed OS/2 Warp on a PS/2. It was needed to connect to an IBM AS/400 threw a Token Ring for an application called "CallPAth" This machine ran for about 7 years without any downtime or problems. In fact I left the company and for 2 years no one even new what the PC was for.
It seemed to be a very stable OS. Maybe I will get a copy of this eComStation and reminisce. Thanks
by pweegar1
A number of years ago I worked for the State of Arizona. We had an OS/2 V1 machine used as a print server! That pc was rock solid. Never had a problem with it. OS/2 was a required OS from one of our vendor's we used to scan, view, store and print documents electronically.
Would love to see OS/2 run on a fast computer. With lots of RAM. That could be exciting!!!!
by rsteiner9
by ac4fs
I loved OS/2. I used 2.11 and 3.0, back during the "Windows 3.1x"
days, and really loved it. It could multi-task effortlessly on my
486-66 with 16 MB of RAM. I have thought about trying eComStation
many times, but just can't get over the price they are asking. I
suppose I should bite the bullet and get it though.
It's a darn shame IBM couldn't keep OS/2 as a viable platform.
There are a lot of folks using Windows now that probably wouldn't be,
if only they had a modern up-to-date alternative for the PC
platform. I remember feeling quite crushed by the way IBM handled
OS/2. In the words of some long lost writer: "IBM managed to
snatch defeat in the OS wars, right from the jaws of victory!".
I have been running Linux, FreeBSD and Mac OS X as my main operating
systems for quite some time now. I do still have one Windows 2000
Pro computer, but that's just for my work. I realize Linux
is a far cry from OS/2, but it does what I need it to do, is very
stable and virus-free, and hey, the price is right too!
by debuggist
AFAIK, OS/2 is still used for automated teller machines. I once saw one
boot up (using Warp) in a hotel lobby after a power outage.
by hschoenman
At one time OS/2 used to run every (or at least nearly every) ATM machine. While OS/2 still may be in use on some, the vast majority have converted to Windows (2000 or XP).
by petedude
The new evolution of OS/2 Warp operating system, eComStation 2.0 beta 1 is available for eCS Software Subscribers.
The most significant updates on this beta version are:
- SNAP/ENT the special licensed version of SNAP by Serenity is in there, we boot Snap directly from CD-Rom
- Bootable JFS, this version is able to install on bootable JFS
volumes. Installing onto a bootable JFS volume will show a dramatic
performance increase!
- ACPI Driver if ACPI is detected for improved hardware support
- Updated Snooper drivers for improved hardware support during installation
- Updated eWorkplace to support ACPI
For more information visit:
http://www.ecomstation.com/ecomstation20.phtml
Regards
USB removable media runs fine on OS/2 Warp 4 and eComStation. Almost
every USB Flahs memory works under OS/2.
You can visit this page for more information on the drivers you need.
http://www.os2warp.be/index2.php?name=usbremovables
by chug
Regarding Staples Easy Rebates, I've never done one of these but I read something somewhere that the rebate isn't actually a check that you can cash or deposit, but instead more like a gift certificate or gift card good for credit only at Staples. Is that true? If so, that's absolutely worthless to someone who doesn't shop there often. I almost bought something out of their day after Thanksgiving ad until I saw the comment about the easy rebate only being store credit.
by j sheesley
A little more than a year after releasing the first version of Firefox,
Mozilla.org has finally released Firefox 1.5. This new version is supposed to
add all sorts of new features including Live Bookmarks which merge RSS and
bookmarks, improved error pages, improved patch mechanisms, as well as more
security and faster load times. Naturally, with all these new features, you'd expect it to be less efficient.
I started by loading Firefox 1.5 on my Linux
workstation. I had a few conflicts with packages loaded by prior versions, but
it was nothing that was Firefox's fault. Once it was finally up and installed I
checked to see how big of a footprint Firefox 1.5 had over Firefox 1.07. Here's
what I found:
As you can see, Firefox 1.5 is a little bigger on my
test machine than Firefox 1.07. But this was on a Linux machine and your mileage
may vary anyway. The added bulk hasn't seemed to have negatively impacted
performance though. Firefox 1.5 seems to load a little quicker and load pages
quicker than 1.07 as well.
On my Windows XP workstation, Firefox 1.5 consumes 20.5 MB of RAM
before visiting the first page. The real proof in the pudding however
is how it performs as you use it. Visiting the TechProGuild homepage
immediatlely causes Firefox's usage to climb to 24.8 MB on Windows and
42.3 MB on Linux. Load a couple of articles and read them, and the
memory usage continues to spiral. Firefox 1.5 occasionally releases the
memory but not as fast as it should. There have been occasions on my
Linux box where Firefox has grabbed over 150MB of RAM and wont let go
even though there's only one window and page active. Normally
however that's after I've had several windows and dozens of tabs
running.
It's interesting that Firefox uses less resources under Windows than
it does under Linux. I checked Erik Eckel's Mac and Firefox consumes
more memory there as well. I'm sure this has a lot to say about
the robustness of the development tools.
Please perform the same test on IE 7 Beta and include this in your results.
by netnerdo9
IEbeta7 doesn't run on Linux. And comparing Windows "stats" to Linux
"stats" is a little unfair considering that the Windows internals
(i.e., how memory usage is offered up to tools) is only knowable and
properly exploitable by MS insiders. In other words, Windows can
produce skewed results however it has been programmed to do and there
is no independent 3rd party to verify that what the stat tools say is
actually truthful or based on similar definitions of memory usage
(shared or otherwise) as defined on Linux.
The bottom line test is how does it feel to the user? IEbeta7 on Windows vs Firefox on Linux.
ps. Consider perhaps testing an FF build that has been optimized and
has various speedups turned on (not that this is how it comes out of
the box but it would still provide useful metrics for what is
achievable to any user that wants to go the extra mile tweaking). As
for IEbeta7, I don't work for Microsoft so I don't know what to
recommend except that I think it only runs on Windows XP so that (and
all the memory that the machine would require to support Windows/IE
shared internal libraries) would be a requirement.
by silviostar
by j sheesley
Ah yes, it?s that time of year. A chill in the air. Wishes of holiday cheer. Increasing traffic around shopping malls. And the mandatory predictions of what?s to come in the New Year.
Rex Baldazo has already given you his views on what we won?t see in the news in 2006. So has Erik Eckel. Now it?s my turn. Fortunately, a tear in the space-time continuum that appeared as a result of loading OS/2 onto a 3.0Ghz Pentium 4 PC allowed me to connect to a News.com page dated 12/31/2006. Here?s what I didn?t see:
I don?t care if we?re talking Web applications, Linux, OpenDoc, MacOS, Firefox, or Google. Every year we hear of the Next Big Thing that?s going to crush Microsoft. It hasn?t happened yet, and chances are it?s not going to happen any time soon. The only caveat to this prediction may be the PlayStation 3 going over the xBox 360, but until it ships, even that?s debatable. Microsoft?s biggest enemy in the marketplace is Microsoft itself, and until it makes a fatal mistake, nothing else is going budge it.
2) Vista ships on time ? with a full feature set
Microsoft has a history of creating illusory ship dates. Maybe Slip Dates would be a better term for them. As the shipping date gets closer, one of two things invariably happens. Either the ship date changes or features get tossed over the side. Beta 2 has already been delayed while promised features like WinFS suddenly have become possible options in the future. Vista may indeed appear in 2006, but it will be very late in the year, and without a full set of features that were announced years ago.
This one pains me because I?ve long been a Novell and NetWare fan. The problem is NetWare market share is dropping like a rock at the same time Novell is trying to sell a free operating system that has a version dominated by RedHat. Novell has a solid record of selling operating systems to business and understanding networking in general, but so far it hasn?t been able to turn this reputation into profits. Being squeezed by Microsoft, RedHat, and The March Of Progress, Novell is in a whole world of hurt. I hope this one turns out to be wrong.
The economy may be slowly improving, but with the sudden changes that still appear all the time such as oil shocks, terrorism, and natural disasters, the economy is far from being strong. IT is usually the first thing that gets cut when times go bad, and it?s usually the last thing to be restored when things appear to get better. Business wants to make sure that it can get widgets built and sold consistently and profitably before it starts budgeting for the latest computer gadget. Get used to doing more with less.
The Mac may never replace Windows on the desktop or in the server room, but at the same time, Apple?s nowhere near in danger of disappearing or becoming irrelevant. The iPod continues to bring in cash and the Mac itself has a hard-core enough following that Apple doesn?t have much to worry about. And let?s not forget that if things do start looking scary for Apple, that?s usually when Steve Jobs shines and pulls a rabbit out of his hat. GM will crash and burn before Apple does.
by ideaguy
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}>Excellent Top 5 HLYWS in 06!function (match)
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}>#5 - "GM will crash and burn before Apple does."? Absolutely correct.function (match)
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}>GM isn't any different than many PC manufacturers, building junk en masse from most of the line up with the occasional gem, most (95%) running with 'an outdated engine' using all the same underpinnings it had decades ago. Shiny knobs and whizzy names are added year after year and despite being touted as the largest automaker in the world, GM faces collapse because consumers are quietly walking away.?function (match)
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}>I chuckle whenever I see or hear of someone beaming about how excellent their Sunbird, or Sunfire.... wait for it...... El Camino was. What's funnier is glowing reviews based mostly on limited or no exposure to another brand or type. "I drives what I drives cuz my daddy drove it too." I suspect that many of the same people who have influence over desktops and server rooms probably drive GM products daily. Does anyone remember (or even know) that keys for a one GM product often fit similar cars... and worked. Yup, the industry leader couldn't be expected to have all the bases covered. Poor stupid masses. Seems to me I could be describing Microsoft instead of General Motors.function (match)
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}>iPods, not unlike Minis or Vespas or Prius' are hallmarks of function and oftentimes design too. They usually do what they do better than any other.? Apple will continue to be a much more relevant company than Microsoft, just like Honda and Toyota are compared to GM. IMO, since day one, any Mac has always been a better vehicle to drive, so to speak.? It will take a long time to get all the detroit, ooops... redmond pig iron that has been made (Win 95, 98 and so on) onto the scrap heap but that is because there is a whole infrastructure that supports this behemoth can't see past the next block.? function (match)
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}>MS for so many years, like GM, was asleep at the wheel, is currently overcorrecting and the writing is on the brick wall it is about to become a part of.?Market share matters most to the who has most to lose. GM is toast.? IMO, Microsoft should pay close attention to what is happening to GM.function (match)
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by pkr9
by petedude
by suavebob0
The rebate matter sounds like the US Postal Service. My boss complained about my appointments with the Veterans Administration Hospital. I told him that I was given these appointments by my doctor and he made the decision that they weren't important. I kept my appointments and he wrote me up. I made a grievance, but level 1 was with my supervisor who gave the usual answer (DENIED.) My level 2 was with his partner downstairs who came up and berated me in front of my coworkers and gave the usual answer (DENIED.) My level three was between two people (one from Connecticut and one from New Jersey [I'm from the Bronx, NY and was workingin White Plains, NY.]) When I went to arbitration, the arbitrator sat down with me and told me that hegets to go on many trips around the country arbitrating Postal disputes and is paid very well. Naturally, he have the same answer (DENIED.) I went to the EEOC and they told me that because I worked for the US Postal Service, I would have to go to the Postal Service EEOC. The called me on the day of the arbitration and asked where I was for the hearing (Everyone lese was there, where were you?) They were told that I was at work (because I had found a job because I needed an income.) I called them back the next day and told them that I wasn't there because I hadn't received notification of a hearing. They had a copy of the Return Receipt Requested which was not signed on the back (the Postal service sends everything Return Receipt Requested because they do not pay for it.) They got me in touch with someone from New York City who DENIED my request for another hearing and got me in touch with someone from Washington, D.C. (who, also, DENIED my request for another hearing) and ever since then, I've been getting the run-around. It took me two years before I got a copy (front and back) of the Return Receipt Requested showing that I had not received the notification. Incidentally, the job that I found was with a Rebate House as a Rebate Inspector.
by j sheesley
Last year ? ok last month ? I mentioned that I started
kicking around OS/2 on one of my workstations at home and found it still
relatively useful. I also mentioned how Serenity Systems had been working on a
licensed version of OS/2 called eComStation. I had read a lot about ECS on the
web, but hadn?t gotten a chance to use it. I figured there was no better time
than the present.
After checking out ECS at the eComStation Web site, the folks at
Serenity Systems and Mensys
provided me with a review copy. Longtime users of OS/2 would be impressed.
Serenity Systems has done a lot to improve the OS/2 experience. They?ve taken
the basic code from IBM and added many new and third party features such as the
SciTech SNAP Graphics and Danis506 IDE drivers.
Unlike most other OS/2 installations I?ve ever done, ECS
installed like a dream. It wasn?t completely as simple as a Windows
installation, but was easily in the same neighborhood as YAST installations
I?ve done with SuSe Linux. The only glitchy point with the ECS installation I
found was driver support. I had some network and sound card driver installation
problems. ECS has a wide variety of pre-installed drivers with it, but if you
consider it, you should make sure that your particular hardware is supported by
ECS or OS/2 before you install it. IBM still maintains a list
of drivers and so do some third
party sites.
I?ve installed ECS 1.2 on an old HP Kayak with 512MB of RAM
and an 800Mhz Pentium III. No, that?s not state of the art hardware by any
means, but seeing as how ECS and OS/2 have lower hardware requirement to begin
with and OS/2 was designed originally for a 486 processor, I thought it was a
fair baseline machine. For testing purposes, I?ve also configured up a copy of
SuSe 10.0 on an identical box. When I do comparisons to Windows XP, I?m going to
give XP the benefit of the doubt by using my 2.8Ghz production
Dell.
In the short couple of weeks I?ve been using ECS, I?ve become
attached to it. I?ll be updating you later about how it works as an Windows and
Linux alternative. So far, the only drawback in comparison to either of them is
the price. Linux of course is free. By virtue of being ?included? with almost
every PC, Windows XP is also ?free?.
eComStation 1.2 costs $224. That?s in line with Windows XP Professional,
but it?s still a big barrier.
by j sheesley
Virus infections seem to be like natural disasters. They hit
and make a big splash in the news, and then you never hear anything else about
them. As if after the virus has been released, anti-virus vendors come up with
a fix and you never hear about the virus again. Naturally things like that
never happen.
This became crystal clear for a company that I do some IT
support for. The company hadn?t had me
over for a while and some things need to be done. The office manager had been
having some problems visiting certain Web sites and she hadn?t been able to
view some images on sites whether she used Firefox or IE.
First thing I did was have her show me. She fires up a
browser and goes to enter the URL for the site in question. While she?s typing,
I look down to her task bar and notice that her anti-virus isn?t running.
You can see where the story?s going without me finishing it.
I quickly determined that she was infected with the Bagle-W worm and several
other variations thereof. After a while of trying to eradicate it, I finally
just wound up reinstalling Windows XP.
Bagle-W is old news. It debuted around mid-2004. When I last
checked her machine in the late fall, it was fine, so that means that somebody
forgot to remind the worm that it wasn?t supposed to still be infecting
machines. It just goes to show that you can never feel safe about catching a
virus just because you hadn?t heard about it for a while.
by van morris
That's why I always recommend using security tools like SafeSystem from the company GemiScorp Software Solutions (www.gemiscorp.com/english/safesystem/info.html). This security tool perfectly complements my other security programs (antivirus, antispyware and firewall). This program doesn't need to know in advance which virus, worm, spyware or malicious code is trying to infect my computer, it simply doesn't allow any program to be installed or copied to my system while I'm surfing the Web or working with my computer. Later, if I need or want to install anything I just temporarily disable the program protection, perform the operation and then enable the protection again. It's that simple and I'm protected at all times no matter if my antivirus isn't updated or even disabled.
Here you can see a couple of screenshots from the program:

by crond
I'm not sure that I can agree with your confident conclusion posted in your final paragraph. Presumably when you last checked her machine in late fall (2004 or 2005?), the anti-virus software then installed should have been protecting against Bagle-W, and that protection should have continued provided that the anti-virus software was receiving regular updates and that users of the machine hadn't been disabling it (for their own spurious reasons). The more ready conclusion that I would have been likely to draw was that necessary anti-virus software operations hadn't been in place at some point, thus allowing the infection to occur.
You could more charitably assume that this machine had been infected with a new variant of Bagle-W in the period between when it was released onto the net and when anti-virus profiles containing its definition became available. Such a situation wouldn't, however, come under the heading of new infections caused by an old problem. The problem has effectively been re-invented, even if it does remind one of similar historical sightings.
by tomgarza9
by j sheesley
Last week I mentioned my
recent encounter with a virus that had recently resurfaced. We still
haven?t been able to trace down exactly how she got that virus, although it was
probably through an infected email.
The other day I was presented with another computer that
refused to boot. All it would do when you turned it on was beep pitifully. It
was an HP Pavillion. Not having the beep codes handy, I surmised it was simply
some bad memory and when I reseated the RAM, everything worked fine ?
almost. The beeps stopped, but the
computer refused to load Windows XP. It would merely sit on the Welcome screen.
After running Windows XP?s Repair on the unit, I got it to
boot and noticed that just like last week?s machine this one had Norton?s
Antivirus running, but it was turned off. When I got anti-virus running, I
discovered that there were 72 viruses on it. Most of them were labeled as being
Trojan downloaders. A quick spyware scan afterwards revealed over 200 different
entries in registry, running programs, and other spyware problems.
From where had all of THESE problems come from? That didn?t
take long to discover at all. In addition to tons of viruses and spyware
programs, the computer was ALSO running several file sharing programs including
Limewire, Kazaa, and WinMX.
File sharing programs do more than just leave your
organization open to viruses and spyware. They can also leave it open to
litigation as well depending on the types of files being shared. Educate your
users about the pitfalls of these programs. You should put a policy in place
about their usage, and if necessary deploy the hardware and software necessary
to keep them from being used on your network.
by j sheesley
I?ve been running
SuSe Professional 10.0 now for several months to test out as a Windows XP
alternative. So far, that?s been working ok, but Linux hasn?t been without its
problems.
I?ve also recently installed a copy of eCommStation
1.2 ? the latest incarnation of OS/2. That?s been a fun trip down memory
lane and the improvements that Serenity Systems have added to eCommStation over
OS/2 have been astounding. In some ways, it?s a lot better than SuSe
Professional 10.0. In others, it?s still been a bit bumpy.
Even though the jury is still out on both of these systems,
now I have a new one to deal with. Everyone knows how fervent TechRepublic Editor Erik
Eckel has been lately about MacOS X. He recently passed me his Mac mini, so
that?s now on my list of things to work with.
The little white brick is currently sitting on top of my eCS
workstation. The first challenge was getting it to work through my KVM switch
which I thought was going to be a problem because the KVM is all PS/2 while the
mini has USB ports. A USB/PS2 converter made short work of that and the mini
hooked up with no problems. It didn?t even react badly to the Microsoft Natural
Keyboard and Microsoft Mouse I have connected to the KVM - a good first
impression.
I?ve sipped the Kool-Aid, but haven?t taken a
complete drink yet. Since hooking it up, I?ve still spent more time in Linux
and eCS than on the Mac, so it?s not fair to judge yet. We?ll see how it goes.
by j sheesley
TechRepublic has long employed various
test machines deployed in a miniature network. The network has allowed us to
create original content as well as test the tools and solutions that
contributors send us before we ultimately publish them on the site. Although we?ve had network servers and
workstations running the latest software such as Windows Server 2003, the
hardware itself has been getting a little long in the tooth.
Our original test lab consisted of primarily Dell Dimension
XPS client machines, HP Kayaks, several clones, and one very ancient and creaky
200Mhz Pentium Pro HP Vectra VA. We have one NDS tree, one NT Domain, one
Windows 2000-based Active Directory tree, and one Windows Server 2003-based
Active Directory tree. You?d also find several Linux boxes, a couple of Macs,
and one eCS workstation. The poor overworked machines supported network
applications like ISA Server 2000 and 2004, Exchange 5.5, Exchange 2000,
Exchange 2003, Lotus Domino 5, and GroupWise 6.5. All in all, the machines did
a lot, but they weren?t terribly representative of an actual production
network.
As Erik
Eckel recently mentioned, we recently purchased three new machines for the
network. We received two Dell PowerEdge 1850s and a Dell Precision 380
workstation. Added to that, we got 5 older Compaq Proliant DL360s and a few
other older Proliants as well from TechRepublic?s IT department that were no
longer being used in production. All together, the new TechRepublic Labs test
network will have over a dozen servers running everything from Windows NT and
NetWare to Windows Longhorn Server. On the client side, we?ll have Macs, Linux,
and just about every version of Windows. (I?m even considering bringing in an
old Tandy 1000 that?s running Windows 2.03 and putting it on the network just
for the heck of it.)
Once the network?s up and running completely,
we?ll have a network that completely mirrors what?s running in the typical
small to medium business. It won?t be all cutting edge, but it also won?t be
completely obsolete either. We?re forseeing problems with heating, electricity,
security, access, and all of that other fun stuff that you deal with on a daily
basis. Through it all, we?ll use it to ensure that the content we provide
becomes even better in the future.
by j sheesley
They say confession is good for the soul, so here?s mine. I know it?s sure to cost me several hundred Esteem Points in the IT world, but nonetheless. I have an Office Assistant running on my copy of Office 2003. Specifically Links The Cat.
The sad truth was revealed the same way truths always are ? by an unintended revelation. I was demoing Windows Vista to a friend of mine and when I switched back over to my Windows XP machine, I had Outlook up with Links sitting there happily in the corner.
?What?s THAT?? he said.
?What? The cat? Oh, that?s one of the Office Assistants from Office 2003. Y?know ? like Clippy.?
?Yeah, I know ? but what?s it doing there??
The fact of the matter is I happen to like Links. He (She?) reminds of a cat I used to have who?s name was Casey. Plus it?s amusing to see some of the things it does. Like the little stamping paw prints when you send something to the printer. Or whipping out a laptop and typing up an email when you use Outlook. Casey didn?t used to do all of that, but she did like to curl up in my lap when I worked on the computer, so Links is close.
I know everyone hates Clippy. Personally, the first thing I do whenever I install Office is either turn Clippy off or swap him out for Links. The assistants can be annoying at times, and they do add unnecessary overhead, but they can be amusing, so I don?t mind. I don?t think I ever USE it for anything, but it?s nice just to have it on the screen.
I started loading the assistants back in Office 97. At the time, I loaded The Genius, who is an Albert Einstein knock-off. I always felt sorry for him, because the Office 97 Assistants were stuck in these little windows. They looked trapped in a way. The Genius is missing from later versions of Office, but Links has been a good addition.
Ok ? so there you have it? it?s out in the open. Whew. I feel a lot better now.
by joanre
Thank you. I knew there was something missing from my office Office. Just installed F1. Cute litle bugger. Yes, me too, don't actually use him but he's nice to have around.
by j sheesley
I was relating a story to TR's Mac-o-phile Erik Eckel
about having to use the Mac mini to burn some Windows Server 2003 R2
MSDN ISO images because I couldn't get the new Dell Vista workstation
to do it, and he insisted I blog about it. So here we go.
I decided that we needed to be running Windows Server 2003 R2 in the
test lab and not plain old Windows Server 2003. As such, I downloaded a
fresh pair of images of R2 from MSDN. They come in an ISO format, which
like ISOs in the TechProGuild Download Center, require you to create
working CDs from the image. My production machine doesn't have a
CD-burner on it. Nor does any other computer in near proximity. We had
a workstation on the test network that did have a burner on it, but
it's now in pieces so I couldn't use that. What to do?
Aha! Our brand new Dell Precision 380 comes with a DVD burner! We can
just use that. Wait... no we can't. It's running Vista 64-bit and the
CD burning software refuses to recognize the burner. Not a good sign.
Fortunately, I still had the Mac mini sitting in the cube and IT has a
CD burner in it. I disconnected it to play with Vista, so all I had to
do was swap some cables and fire it back up. Once I connected to the
test server that had the ISO images stored on them I got the CDs burned
in no time.
So now, while Windows Server 2003 R2 is installing on our new Dell
PowerEdge 1850, my coworker has a big grin on his face because his beloved Mac
was able to create the CDs to make it happen when the fancy new Dell
couldn't. Talk about Job Satisfaction.
by conundrum
by skooboy
Although my eyes welled-up with tears as I read your Wintel song of lamentation...I'm still trying to understand the point of your story. This doesn't sound like a technical edge of one platform or computer over the other, rather, this is a simple story of human error I'd be rather embarrased to tell. Now let's see, you can't afford CD burners in your workstations, but you can afford the 64-bit software. Plus, you're running this advanced software on a PC not meeting the HCL requirements. Well congratulations on creating such a problem for yourself. It sounds as though the Mac came to the rescue after the tech guys created an emergency.
I won't delve here too deeply into the Mac-PC platform war, but I'll add 2 points regarding Macs that everyone should know. Apple releases a new OS every year. "Great!", you say. But hold on. If you check the system requirements for virtually any piece of Mac-compatible peripheral equipment in any given year, you'll see that the OS from sometimes just 1 year prior is not supported. For example, if today you purchase a scanner for your late-2004 or early-2005 Mac, you will probably need to upgrade your OS as well. And if you lack the memory requirements of the new OS, you'll be required to purchase additional memory, too. In another example, the latest version of Firefox will only run on OSX 10.4. But you bought your Mac in 2004? Go buy 10.4 today (even considering that 10.5 will soon be released!). I call that insanity for an enterprise. If you purchase the same peripheral equipment for the PC, most likely Win '98, 2000 Pro, and XP will be supported operating systems. Second point: take it from the admin of a 50/50 Mac-PC enterprise (I know, it's not my fault), Mac hardware costs are astronomical. You cannot simply purchase any internal parts for the Mac. The Mac-compatible parts market is very tight and confined to a few vendors' products. Power supplies typically cost me $150 each, PRAM batteries--$150/year (for 100 Macs), PAV boards--from $200 to $600. And those are trade-in prices lowered for higher education. I never condemn anyone's preference of platforms, but Macs present several increased costs for the enterprise.
by j sheesley
*chuckle*
Well, it doesn't have much to do with affording the CD's in the
workstations. Our standard configuration when these stations were
bought were non-RWs. All of the production machines were bought that
way. The 64Bit machine is for the test network only. And it does have a
burner in it itself. It's just that the beta version of 64Bit Vista is
allergic to just about every CD-burning software I've put on it.
So yeah, the wounds are semi-self-inflicted, but it doesn't nearly rise
to the incompentence level that you're suggesting in your post. The
moral to the story was how ironic it was to be generating Windows
Server 2003 disks from a Mac when Vista couldn't do it.
As for the Mac-Windows Holy Wars, I won't get into that. I leave that up to other people...
by gustavomora
Interesting tale... I like all the systems and machines, but I like them when they are on a production environment, in a lab that is not .. by definition... the place where everything works perfectly. I'm not sure burning cd's defines a benchmark...
MAC: It just works!
by mnedrow
John,
Thank you for telling the world about the power of the Mac. I have often wondered why anyone would want to use any Apple product. Finally I have my answer. Mac's are good as a back-up CD burner! And to think that I was just using them as paper weights.
by bostechie
So what? Vista is still in Beta.
by jduino
Correction: it wasn't "the fancy new Dell" that couldn't burn the
image, it was the crappy new Windows that couldn't.Stick in a Knoppix
CD, or if you have the time, a Window XP CD, and see how it works.
by j sheesley
After going through the hassle of getting the Windows Server 2003 R2 CDs burned, I figured installing R2 on the new test server was going to be a breeze. Naturally I thought wrong.
Microsoft hasn't changed the installation routine on R2 much from the
original version of Windows Server 2003. Everything went pretty
smoothly right up until the point where I tried to connect the server
to the network. Even though Windows Server 2003 R2 is a brand new
operating system it couldn't detect the Ethernet controller in my
PowerEdge 1850.
Fortunately, a quick trip to Dell's Web site fixed that. I downloaded
the drivers, put them on a USB key, and now have them installed on the
PowerEdge. Now it's just a matter of continuing the install until the
NEXT problem shows up.
by j sheesley
One thing I've been particularly concerned about when running SuSe 10.0
was the fact that it seemed to be a lot slower than I expected. I
have it running on a couple of machines and the graphics just aren't as
responsive as I'd like. As a matter of fact, I'd say that Linux feels
more sluggish on one of my 800Mhz test machines than XP does on my test
450. And that's with the 800 running 512MB of RAM vs. 384MB on the 450.
To get an actual comparitive feel, I recently popped a copy of SuSe
10.0 Professional on my HP OmniBook. I already have XP running on it,
so I got another hard drive for the same machine and configured it for
SuSe 10 Professional. Everything's the same, except for the hard drive,
which is of the same model. Sure enough - SuSe 10.0 felt slower. I
didn't bother to pull out a stopwatch to get an actual reading, but the general feel of the system was just much slower.
When I installed SuSe, I chose to use KDE. SuSe comes with 9 other
window managers including GNOME, WindowMaker, and IceWM. On a whim, I
changed window managers from KDE to GNOME. The difference was night and
day. GNOME seemed to be much more responsive than KDE. It loaded programs
faster, displayed windows faster and was an all-around better
performing experience.
The one drawback to GNOME is that it doesnt seem to be quite as
flexible as KDE. You can't modify it as easily and the menus are layed
out completely differently.
So for now, I think I'm going to stick to GNOME for a while. Even
though KDE was SuSe's default manager, GNOME seems to be the better
choice to squeeze more performance out of the machine. As a side note,
I recently read that Novell itself may switch SuSe's default manager to GNOME, so I may be on to something.
Let me know what your experiences have been with GNOME, KDE, or any of the other Linux window managers.
by jmgarvin
Try a more lightweight window manager like Fluxbox, FVWM, or Afterstep.
Good luck!
by swlchris
I would suggest ,if you haven't already tried this ,to recompile your kernel for the exact specs of your machine.
I have Slackware, which as default install was configured for 486
cpu amongst other things. After a recompile to set cpu to P3 700 mhz
and ditching some things such as as laptop support , etc,etc, it flies
twice as fast now. Slackware was never known as a slow distro to
begin with , but it's amazing what a close to perfect optimization can
do for you.It's fast in either Gnome or KDE.
by dave howard
You guys are WAY to pickie------Put SuSE 10.0 on an AMD 3200+, 1.5 Gb of RAM and see what happens-----KDE is a resource hog like WIndows XP, so give it some more to use----
by joedcook
John,
Yes I believe that the "responsiveness" of the KDE desktop is not a
quick as Windows XP but I still use it as my personal desktop
everyday. I haven't used GNOME to any extent lately so I will
give it a try again. I just introduced a customer to SUSE Linux and
sold him a copy of SUSE Linux 10.0. He came in yesterday and said that
he loaded it with no problem and that he tried both KDE and GNOME and
that he liked GNOME best. Great.. I don't care which desktop my
customers use and neither should anybody else. That's one of the
benefits of Linux.. we can be different together.
Now in a corporate environment some standardization is needed so on
Novell's Linux Desktop they use GNOME as the desktop. Not so much a
surprise because both Nat Friedman and Miguel de Icaza are both
developers who prefer the GNOME environment. They have made a couple of
feelers to see if they could just do one desktop and there are so many
people on each camp that leaving one out would alienate too many people.
So we continue to have a choice of graphical interfaces and that is a
good thing, especially because many of us don't know why we like one or
the other.. we just do. But responsiveness isn't the reason that
I chose Linux as my desktop regardless of whether I use KDE or
GNOME. I chose it because of reliability, flexibility, security,
and cost in that order. I have used other distributions.. Red
Hat, Simply Mepis, and Mandrake but SUSE seems to meet my needs beter
than any other so far. Your mileage may vary.
Joe Cook
by mat.enders
I disagree with your anecdotal evidence. Unless you had just
about everything turned off in GNome it is a much heavier drain on
resources than KDE. "I personally just encourage people to switch to KDE.
This 'users are idiots, and are confused by functionality' mentality of
Gnome is a disease. If you think your users are idiots, only idiots
will use it." -Linus Torvalds
by nico baggus
I gave up on GNOME long ago, yes it's sleightly faster but if I want speed then both gnome & kde deserve to be scrapped. there are faster WM's around.
Then functionality.. If I want to print double sided no option on the printer menu (gnome) appearantly it is too difficult to use it as an end-user ==> the user won't need it, en thus no need to build it.
Have you seen kdeprinter? if my printer has some special option chances are i can use that option too (think double sided printing, multitray, and such).
Btw. KDE stands for Kiosk Desktop and is customizable from top to bottom, there are tools for disabling modifying alsmost every aspect of KDE. You can use it as a real KIOSK desktop.
Integration between components..., kde integrates a whole bunch.. Have you tried konqueror with some exotic protocols typing gg: in stead of http://google.com/ etc. will send your query to google..
use smb://server/share as a URL and you're looking at your samba/windows server etc. etc.
Not just from your konqueror:, f.e. run kate (tekst editor), open a new file (looking for existing ones) and type smb://server/ at your location: field... same view
All kio_slaves at your service. for newsgroups/manpages/bluetooth/perl doc/python doc's/windows helpfiles/newsgroups/plain files/ftp/http/subversion digital camera etc.etc.
gnome looks to me like the dark ages.
by haas
I agree that GNOME is better than KDE. I have used both and found that GNOME works faster but again I am using it just for web hosting, ftp, and mail server. I didn't install all the apps that came with it because I was not planning to use them. So that might have contributed to the speed difference. I also agree with the other comments that there are other WM that do a good job as well. Before I installed SUSE 10 I did a lot of reading of other users experiences instead of installing them and spending a lot of time to figure out which one would work for my specific needs. So I did my homework so to speak and I installed what I needed and I am a happy SUSE user with GNOME as my favorite WM.
Peace
Haas
by ajmateusg
by j sheesley
Among the test machines we got for the new TechRepublic Test Network is
a Dell Precision 380. This machine has 64-bit Pentium 3.0Ghz processor,
2Gb of RAM, and an nVidia Quadro FX 3450 video card. We speced
this machine out to be a killer Windows Vista test machine to get the
full effects of Aero Glass and the works. Theoretically, there's
nothing this machine can't run.
Except for Windows Vista.
Ok- it can run Windows Vista. I've installed Beta 1 and Beta 2
on it and everything went just fine. The problem is in the nature of
beta software. Beta 1 fully supported the Quadro video card. Worked
like a charm. Beta 2 does not. The December 2005 build shows the video
card as being a "Standard VGA Graphics Adapter".
Oddly enough, a 'standard' VGA adapter would only run 640x480 at 256
colors, but Vista thinks THIS 'standard' adapter can do up to 2048x1530
at 32bit color. The problem is that as a 'standard' adapter, Vista
configures the screen at 1024x768 at 32 bit and does so VERY slowly.
Dragging a window around the screen pegs the CPU at 100% and looks like
you're moving XP screens around on a 486. Painful.
nVidia's Web site claims to support the card under Vista, but as of
yet, even they have not written the drivers for this specfic
card. So for now it's just a matter of waiting for the Vista beta
to bake a little while longer until the card is supported.
by j sheesley
I just finished reading a book called The Discoverers
by Daniel Boorstin. It chronicles history around human discovery,
including such things as the development of the clock, calendars, and
the ways we went about making some major discoveries that changed the
course of humanity. It's one of those books that get you to thinking
"Just how did we get to where we are?"
That got me to thinking about computers in general. Just how did work
get done before computers? I'm old enough to remember the days of DOS
before Windows took over the planet. But at the same time, I'm too
young to know how general business got done without word processors,
spreadsheets, databases, and everything else that we take for granted
today.
It makes looking at old TV shows and movies interesting. As much fun as
it is to see old cars go by in such things, you look at the office
setting and notice what's missing as well. No PCs. Certainly no cell
phones or PDAs.
So what were the 'Good Old Days' like? I'm sure it wasn't quite like
The Flintstones, but a reminder would be pretty interesting.
by leee
by jamesrl
Well as old as I am, computers are older. I do remember a time before PCs were everywhere, and where only special people had computers.
People in accounting had big ledgers and/or big filing cabinets. Things were typed on IBM Selectrics. Thats how my resume was first done.
Things took a long time. There were lots more steps in most processes with human intervention.
Life seems like it worked at a slower pace. You accepted a 15 minute wait at the bank.
James
by steve.davis
by zlitocook
I was in high school in 1976 boy I am old ;) we went to parties and meet people face to face. I could not even use the phone until I was 12 or 13, I read sci-fi and watched tv shows like lost in space and man from uncle. I started using computers in the 80's and you had to go through a local BBS to get to the internet. That was a great learning experence, at that time you had to build your own TCP/IP stack to get to the internet. And most of what you could get was others just starting out or government sites. And I got into more trouble in those days because I just wanted to look around and the DOD did not see it that way :)
by ehemdal
We had a real secretary who would type our test reports and take
messages, since there was no voice mail. It was amazing to see
her take notes in shorthand -- she could capture notes as quickly as
one could speak.
Calculators were big, electromechanical things that would take half a
desk and perform basic arithmetic. For more advanced mathematical
work, a slide rule provided a convenience in a much smaller
package. For things like trig functions, well, that's what the
CRC math tables were for.
The requirement to take data, sketch curves, and plot data by hand
actually improved understanding. Nothing was hidden inside a big
software package.
by mtn.brk9
You fellows are all youngsters. The first computer I programmed was a Univac 1, next was a Univac II and then spent many years with a DEC PDP-1 and so on. Yup, I'm still programming, but the big difference now is that I have no management responsibilities and just pick and choose the projects I am really interested in.
One big difference I notice between BEFORE and now is back then we had much less paper stuff. Just go into a medical facility and look at the piles of paper, most of it dealing with insurance forms, I'm sure. I was the project director for the design and implementation of the first installed hospital wide medical ordering and patient record system . It was installed in the San Francisco Hospital in 1969. It had 60 stations throughout the hospital with terminals, badge readers, light pens and printers. By the way the computer had 16KB of memory with a 5 microsecond cycle time and a second 4KB computer for refreshing the displays. Our goal was to improve patient care and to allow the medical staff to forcus more on the patient. The next time you go into a hospital, hopefully just to visit, notice what the staff is primairly doing. That's right, paper work,
Another big thing I notice is when I go shopping. It used to be that you went up to the checkout counter, the clerk quickly wrote out a receipt, handed it to you and you were on your way. Today, even when things are moderately busy, you stand in line with the few articles in hand that you want and wait while the clerk types the information and then waits for that to be digested and then wait somemore for the printer to fire up and print your receipt. It's all very impersonnal, I think, because the clerk is a computer operator and does not have to pay attention to the customer.
I loved the work I did and am still doing, but in my opinion computers have not, in any way, lived up to their promise and that promise was to improve the quality of life. Instead they have become the beast that demands service. We are becomming the servant and they are becomming the master. For that I blame the fact that we, the implementors of computer tools. focused on the wrong problem. Instead of focusing on developing tools that made application implementation easier and more intuitive we focused on the technology of computers. What was wrong with assembly language, Algol, Pascal. OOPs is nothing more than a complication of reusing existing modules. DLL's, COM's and their like are just an obscuration to accomplishment. It all is layers upon layers of detail which have nothing to do with the main goal of implementation, but everyone in the field stumbles all over themselves just keeping up with it.
By the way, to the author of this original blog, if you enjoyed the book you referred to you might try finding a series of books called, "The Testement of Man". I'm sorry I do not remember the author's name. I believe they were published in the late 50's or early 60's. I found them fasinating reading.
Mini-bit
by johnboehlke
Well, there is one tool that has not been mentioned. Am I the only one who had to use a Slide Rule? Yup, that wooden (not plastic) ruler that could compute mathematical results. Business relied on mechanical adding machines, and accountants worked with columnar paper pads. It is enjoyable to look backward, and also encouraging to see that there still are some people working who had to program in assemble language and actually know what Algol was.
by mdbradsh
I grew up during the 60's. We did have a TV when I was young, but it was black and white. We only had 4 channels to watch, of which one was always snowy. City kids walked to school. School buses were for rural kids only. We played outside, running and bike riding from dawn to late evening most days, during spring and summer vacations. I took "Data Processing" in high school in the late 60's early 70's. Computers took up whole rooms and were less than fraction of the power and capability a mediocre laptop today. Data was fed and retreived via " Keypunch cards". Typewriters, shorthand, adding machines ruled the office. Frankly, I don't think things having to do with typewriters or adding machines are much faster today with computers than they were then. Typing is typing, whether you do it on a good electric typewriter or adding machine or computer. Moreover, I'd say today, with clogged networks and computer glitches, it sometimes takes longer than it did back then.
by jevans4949
I started in full time work in IT in 1970. There was a lot less paperwork. When you had to write stuff by hand, or dictate it, and then get a full-time typist to type it up, you kept to the essentials. A correction or alteration normally meant re-typing the whole page. When I re-joined my first employer (a large bank) in the late 1990's, they had adopted PRINCE management methodology, and IT developers were spending most of their time cutting and pasting stuff between word-processor documents; the amount of time spent on actual design and programming was less than half.
Before word-processors, many people (mostly women) were employed as full-time typists, trained to touch-type at high speed. Non-academic kids destined for white-collar jobs were even taught the basics in high school. This occupation has now pretty much disapppered, and most people now are learning to type the hard way at half the speed.
People were content with far simpler presentation methods, i.e. character-based systems, and relevant staff were trained in their operation.
Bear in mind that office automation goes back a long way, to the invention of the Hollerith card in the 1890's. I recall a quote from a college textbook in the 1960's that at that time, without [electromechanical] automation, 50% of the women in the USA would have been employed in book-keeping in American banks.
I actually used a fax machine in my first job in 1970; it was electro-mechanical and slow, and very big.
The other main difference is that in the old days customer service was dealt with by local sales people, depending on personal knowledge of the customer or paper records. Today, especially with call centre systems, customer service depends on whatever computer records one anonymous operator has recorded for the next anonymous operator. Without the computer, the whole system collapses. (Although even ancient empires managed to set up large bureaucracies when required.)
by pshaw0423
by jjpengr
As an engineer approaching retirement in about 5 years, I do remember life before computers. In college in the late 1960's we still used slide rules and did Fortran programs on punch cards and waited for batch processing on main frames. Scientific calculators appeared in the mid-1970's and replaced the slide rule. Typewriters and forms were used for documents in most of the 1960's and 70's. Dedicated word processing machines began to appear in the late 1970's for use by admin assistants. Engineering drawings were done on paper and vellum on big drawing boards before CAD programs became available in the late 1980's.
I remember seeing the first Apple II's and Commodore PET PCs in the late 1970's. My first PC was an Apple IIc in the early 1980's.
DOS PCs began to appear in offices in the early and mid-1980's. I remember using Zenith Z-100s and Z-248s which were 8086 and 286 based PCs running DOS and then Windows 3.1. Although I had a 386 PC for awhile, I remain a Mac enthusiast and have had a series of Macs since. OSX Tiger is great and I deal with Windows XP at work.
A lot of changes in the past 40 years. PCs and networks have done much to improve productivity and reduce new product development time, especially using modeling and simulation to reduce prototype iterations.
by jor55
by jor55
In 1960 I had access to STRETCH super computer. It was all of 92 K (not Meg) RAM of which 86k were available to the user.
Input: write out each Fortran statement onto a form, then girls punched cards (80 column) then it failed because you have three brackets one side and four the other.
But by 1964 I had access to an IBM with 8k RAM. This took cards printed directly from some equipment we had. It took a whole day to process 4,000 records.
Then came the IBM 360. Cards, cards-to-tape and a whole day to process 12,000 records using a COBOL program.
As for Word Processors, we had typing pools!
It was only in 1991 that everybody got their own PC, a microchannel IBM PS/2 386.
I still have one that works, with DOS, First Choice Office Suit, Paradox for Dos etc.
by sschafir
by chug
Not directly a comment on this article, but definitely related to it. I often wonder what I and my fellow IT collegues would be doing for our livlihood if we had lived before computers, or if there were still no computers today. I was always a techie (one of those kids that took everything electronic or mechancial apart, and usually, but not always, could get them back together again). I got involved with computers at about age 6. My Dad worked for HP in Colorado and employees could "check out" computers to take home so he'd bring one home quite a few weekends. He got into programming and started teaching me BASIC programming when I was 8. My first computer of my own was a Commodore 64 when I was a Freshman in high-school. So almost from day 1 (at least when you start truly thinking about your future) I knew I wanted to do something with computers. I can't even imagine my life without computers, so I question quite often what my full time job would be if there were no computers. I can only guess some type of engineer, possibly electrical (but even then what if I'd lived before electricity), maybe mechanical.
by hampalmer
To give you an example of what life was like before computers, I'll
relate a story from my days with the Colorado highway department as a
civil engineer before becoming a software engineer.
In Colorado, as you can imagine, highway projects were done during the
Summer months which left winter for surveying and paperwork. After one
large Summer project, there was an overrun between 'cuts' and 'fills'
where we cut more dirt out than we had places to put it. This causes
extra expense to find a place to put the extra dirt, so we needed to
figure out why this happened. That meant we spent the entire Winter
months going through the paper plans of the project and calculating,
for each 100 foot section, exactly how much dirt was supposed to be
either taken out or added to it and then adding and subtracting the
results until we figured out where the overrun came from.
That waste of time could have been avoided by using a computer to do
the design which would have automatically adjusted the cuts and fills
until they matched, and we would not have spent that time sitting at a
desk calculating with one of the afore-mentioned large
electro-mechanical calulators. There was, however, one big advantage to us of
spending that time at the desk. We didn't spend the time, in the snow,
surveying, which I spent way too much time doing!
by mrspock57
Mi first meeting with a digital device was a Texas Instruments handheld calculator that performed the four basic operations and % (circa 1974). Then I used an IBM 370 with punched cards at the University. And I remember on my father?s desk a heavy mechanical calcultaror he used for his accounting work.
My dad started with assembly code as an engineer who got tired of waiting for the DP department to get to his changes. I still remember imagining the computer falling over whenever it "crashed" and lost all his work. I took Intro to DP in my first semester in college, just so I could talk his language. Turns out I was better than most of the guys in class, so I went from an Ornamental Horticulture (say that 3 times fast, I dare you) major to Math with an emphasis in DP. The accounting classes I took had the students doing the whole process of financial reporting by hand; no computers involved. Now QuickBooks does it all, so General Ledger transactions can be really scary to people who've never done a "T-account".
I agree that learning a process without computing power provides a deeper understanding, so you really know what you're doing when you do use the computer.
My grandfather-in-law was an accountant for the railroads. We still have some of his accounting journals, full of beautiful, neat, and precise numbers. You had to have readable handwriting back then!
When all is said and done, I'd rather live at this time then back when women were "the girls" in the typing pool and doing the grunt work for accounting. My mom had only the work choices of Teacher, Nurse and Secretary, but my daughter will be anything she sets her mind to, even a techie like her mom.
Mindy
by wendygoerl
I didn't get to play with any pre-"trash-180" computers, but I've got a few punch cards my sister had left over from her college computing class. (Ironically, in the early 90's, she worked at a sewing factory that tracked their piece baskets with punchcards--the system worked well enough they never bothered to upgrade!) And some of my middle-school teachers liked to talk about when THEY were in school and the "in" job everyone was supposed to be going to school for was Punch Card Operator.
And y'know, there were (maybe even ARE) people who could get an answer from an abacus as fast as from an electronic calculator.
by billja
by jackbaumel
by johnfarnham9
I ran a Burroughs 4/5 row posting machine in the 60's, seemed almost as
big as a piano. Checking was done by having two posters and comparing
tallies.
Those huge countertop adding machines could be used for "slide"
multiplication. You simply added your second figure the number of times
of the digit and shifted left one place for every column ( 10 times as
much). ; easier to show than describe.So, if your right hand figure was
6 you added 6 times, etc. Since the keyboard locked in place, you only
"reprogrammed" for each column by moving everything left one place.
I never did use a slipstick. Log and antilog tables for trig were around but not common for everyday use.
I remember one oldtimer complaining that new
construction tables - building trades stuff - missed viable
materials combinations because it was too cumbersome to precalculate
all possibilities.
by ocima
My first encouner with computers was in college. It was the early
70's and the public concept of a computer was a huge machine occupying
several floors of a building "somewhere." Most of us had never
seen a computer of any sort, and only knew of these arcane devices
through rumor or the occasional media story.
I was one of the privileged few who would be taking a radical
experimental class. We would be taught how to input problems to a
computer and use the resulting output as an engineering tool. Of
course, we would have to observe the proper customs.
First, we had to formulate our problems in the proper manner. For
this we needed to master the arcane language FORTRAN. We had
heard of another computer language known as COBOL, but this was
reserved for the business majors.
Once formulated, our inputs needed to be rendered in the proper manner,
punched cards known coloquially as "IBM Cards." We learned of the
EBCIDIC code that would render our FORTRAN statements in a manner
acceptable to the machine. Patiently we typed each card,
faithfully rendering our program onto the little cards. Of
course, each card was numbered, and we had to keep the cards in
numerical order lest the machine would frown upon our feeble attempts
and reject our program.
With our deck of cards properly collated we were permitted to approach
the acolytes serving the great machine, a class of priests known as
"operators." Like many minor functionaries, operators held an
incredibly inflated opinion of themselves and delighted in exercising
every miniscule tidbit of power they posessed. "Sure, kid, I'll
try and run it today. Check back in an hour or two." The
prescribed response was to obsequiously thank the operator, lest your
run be shifted to a lower priority queue and you had little hope of
seeing any output for at least a week.
The goal of this exercise was to get a clean run. This rarely occured on the first pass.
After waiting the requisite hour or two, one went to the output shelf
and looked for one's output, a stack of wide printout sheets with a
deck of cards attached. If successful, your printout showed the
results of your program. If unsuccessful (most likely) the
printout represented a dump of your cards with a few very obscure
comments as to the reason your job crashed. At this point you had
to analyze each and every line to determine if you had a typo (very
likely,) if your cards had somehow gotten out of order (I still believe
a few sadistic operators would deliberately cut the deck) or if there
was some flaw in your logic. Debugging was a very painful
experience in those dark days.
Today, computers have become ubiquitous. It is the age of a PC in
every home and a microprocessor in everything else. We no longer
program, we use software programs. In one generation, computers
have emerged from the temple and are part of our everyday lives.
And I like to think that a few sadistic computer operators have been
humbled.
by j sheesley
Bill:
Your comment about computer operators rang true. I used to work
in the computer lab at the University of South Florida. Punch Cards had
long since passed away, but we still had to manage the mainframe
terminals, networked PCs and the mainframe printer and printouts. There
I came across the funniest set of stories about operators which could
only be describe on this site by its acronym: BOFH. It's even appropriate for modern network administrators and support professionals.
by the_m0nk
Strangely enough, I was teaching a class of new hires last week and in progress mentioned how things have progressed. "When I was in school" we even used log books and slide rules. This was before they even allowed handheld calculators! This was in South Africa in 1980, and that was not even that far back!
Brad
The "good old days" used typing pools instead of work processors, accountants with two-column ledgers instead of spreadsheets, and filing cabinets instead of databases. Lots and lots of filing cabinets. We wrote letters instead of email, and could leave a message with an assistant instead of voice mail. The biggest difference, though, was that we had to know a lot more off the top of their heads than we do today. We didn't have to take a week or two to compile the data, because we had to work with the information all the time. On a constant, day-to-day basis we read and summarized articles, wrote briefs and memos, and when it came time to answer a question from management, we had to rely on what we knew right then. That's part of the good old days that I really miss.
by calinga
by paul.hayes
Insert comment text here
Forms, folders, tabulated paper, graph paper, card indexes, slide rules - can remember using all these.
Paul Hayes
by bkadrie
Back in the late 60's, I remember working in an office for a construction company that had union laborers on their payroll. We thought the one-write check pegboard system was the best thing to come along. With it, you hand-wrote the payroll checks, pay breakdown, and itemized deductions, all of which copied over to an master ledger sheet in one step. Of course, the math had to be done with the old electronic calculator.
The next best invention was the typewriter correction tape that was used to erase typing errors. Of course, later on, IBM Selectrics came out, followed by word processors.
I think office workers had to have more mathematical skills and be super typists back then.
by edgbarrow
I remember learning to write assembler programs on IBM VS1 on an Amdahl
540 with 1 meg of real RAM running IBM-type 3330 disk drives. Our
network with VTAM (of course) and over 1000 people were supported on
the system. ASCII was a dream; EBCDIC ruled.
In college, we were still running card-decks on a Burroughs. When
the sys manager finally let us see the job submission queue on a video
monitor, we called it "cool".
I crashed a PDP11-70 filling the process table with my first shell script...too many forks at the table?
Thanks for the memories,
Ed
by dilbert9
We used pens, paper, adding machines, mechanical calculators and punch card tabulators.
I ran an electrical contractor shop in the very early 1970's until
1999. When I started the business was a totally manual pen and
paper operation. I took the business to a automated, bar code
driven operation during my tenure. So what did I decide for a
career after retiring from that business? I'm the Technical
Director for a small medical software developer.
I also had a laugh the other day. My younger children aged 7 and
8, were tasked at school to find out how life differed in their
parent's childhood due to technology. They almost freaked when I
pulled out a vinyl album and a sliderule.
by bad2thebone
I grew up on ten-key calculators for number crunching with many books for posting data for review.
Documents were typed on IBM Selectric typewriters, printed on a small press, bound and distributed
Forms were created by LetraSet characters and laid out on blue line graph paper for reproduction
Computers have made life somewhat simpler, though the greatest benefit is due to process improvements and reduced time invested to accomplish similar tasks
mike vorel
by cjsm
Okay, I admit it. When I was in high school I took a typing class
- on manual typewriters. Only the secretaries and advanced
placement students were allowed to touch the IBM Selectrix. My
family owned a small business, too. I used to help with year end
"getting ready for the auditors". And that involved large ledger
books, pages of hand-written entries and hours on a then state of the
art adding machine. I wasn't allowed to touch the big machine
that did multiplication and division. Photo-copiers were a big
deal. I remember mimeograph machines in school and how the
handouts smelled when you got them in class. And a student
standing by the machine and cranking the handle for hours to get copies
created for all the classes. Carbon paper. Whiteout.
Erasable carbon paper was cool when it came out, correcting mistakes
was so much easier. Typing pools. Some of the old movies
show women (almost always) sitting in a large room and pounding out
reams of paper. Did you know there are still some people who
prefer writing out letters long hand and then having a typing person
enter them into the computer? How wasteful. First you write
it out, then they type it, then you correct it (since they couldn't
read your handwriting), then they retype it, you correct it, and so on
until you either get it right or give up. Shorthand. My mom
learned shorthand in high school. I never attempted to learn
because I was sure I was never going to do that kind of work - and I
was right. The good old days - how I DON'T miss them.
by j sheesley
by j sheesley
I got an email the other day asking about the Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet PC
I've been using. The emailer thought maybe there was something wrong
with the machine and that I hadn't been using it because I hadn't
blogged about it for so long.
Well, part of the problem is in the nature of blogs - or at least the
way I approach them personally. Generally, I blog about what's new in
TechProGuild, some interesting story I've seen in the Tech News, some
IT issue that's been particularly bugging me, or just random thoughts
that happen to cross my mind. The Lenovo ThinkPad just hasn't
been hitting any of those categories for me lately because the darn
thing just works too well.
It's become my standard PC for work at home and office meetings because
the pen features are extremely handy. Plus, with the attached keyboard,
it's easy to rotate out the keyboard and use it rather than the stylus.
I'm surprised with the Tablet's ability to recognize my 'handwriting'.
I can barely read it myself sometimes, but somehow the Tablet can seem
to decypher it pretty well.
Of course, that doesn't have anything specifically to do with the
Lenovo itself. That's more a feature of XP's Tablet Edition. Where the
Lenovo really rocks is the form factor of the machine to begin with. TechRepublic Editor Bill Detwiler currently is experimenting with two Tablet PCs - one from HP and one from Gateway.
The Gateway is just huge. It's about 4 inches wider than the Lenovo.
It's also a couple of pounds heavier. It makes for a nice
laptop-replacement, but to rotate the screen and hold in your arms for
a tablet - it just weighs too much.
The HP is smaller than the Lenovo by about 2 inches, but it weighs
about the same. Plus, the keyboard is detachable, so it's not nearly as
convenient.
We've also had a Viewsonic Tablet PC here as well, but it also couldn't
compare. It didn't have keyboard at all and weighed about 3 lbs more
than the Lenovo. It was also a lot slower.
In any case, the Lenovo is the best Tablet PC we've got in the shop
right now. And I'm not letting Bill near it. Mine.
MineMineMineMine. But I digress...
The Lenovo seems to have the hardware combination down perfect. It's
not too big, not too heavy. The battery easily holds most of the day,
as long as you back off the brightness of the screen. I've never had
any problems getting and keeping a connection.
If there are any areas I could complain about there would be two: One
is around the vaunted ThinkPad keyboard and the other is around the
infamous TrackPoint. ThinkPad keyboards are still in a league by
themselves, but my poor Lenovo has a mushy spot around the arrow keys.
Maybe it's broken underneath, but it just doesn't feel the same as the
rest of the keys.
As for the TrackPoint, it seems to have fits whenever the hard drive is
running a lot. If you try to load several programs at the same time,
the TrackPoint jumps randomly and sometimes starts additional programs.
I've seen on Usenet where this appears to be a common occurance, but
noone seems to have suggestion that works to fix it.
So that's about it with the Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet PC update for
now. If you don't hear about it again for a little while, it's
only because I'm using it and enjoying it too much.
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