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HELP!!!!! SUBNETTING AHHHHHHH!!

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by ayankdownunder

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Hey I am a soon to be graduate of ECPI in Greensboro NC. Ive done great until now...Subnetting...its killing me ..that whole anding, borrowing bits, and binary stuff is about to make my head explode. I just want to be a netware admin but now Im seeing that to make some real money I need to know the ins and outs of large WAN structures and how to divide up a company large or small into sub nets to reduce bandwidth unilization and ultimatly cost. To make matters worse the "old stuff" pre 1999 like ,Linux use some type of subnetting where you cannot use 0 or 1 but after 1999 (CISCO and WIN2K) you can use the reserved numbers. Im going crazy and well Im hoping someone can help me find a resource that will help me understand this stuff, and ...I have one question....how often does a Network admin have to go around composing a corporate subnetting scheme..often?!! ANy help would be greatly appreciated!!
-Nick

22 replies

by wpteh

Currently what type of OS platform your company is running on? Win2k? Linux? NT? Or mixed?

I can recomend you reading up on TCP/IP for NT 4.0. That will gives you some foundations on IP addressing, masking and subnetting.

Good luck.

5mm.
Singapore.

by ayankdownunder

Thank you for replying..
Again I am a student. ECPI my college that once was a total netware 5 shop has been sucked into free t-shirts pens and good deals that microsoft has presented to them.This really upsets me since WIN2k is being pushed on us very heavily. Not to get off track...in class we are using 2000 servers. I believe that our class setup consists of 4 subnets in which we will have to eventually perform communication between the two..etc..Im not sure. I decided to write to this forum because I have done very well in all other classes Linux ,Netware etc!!!!which I love and even the basic setup and deployment of 2000 server...its such a rip off of the NDS that it makes me sick. At some points during 2000 server exams I would askmy instructor as to which OS we were being tested on. O,s OU,s how did Microsoft get by with it. ANyway as I said I have done great until now but this subnetting -TCP/IP class is killing me. Its a ton of theory and stuff that I knew how to use like gateways using tcp-ip etc but its getting complicated now because of the emphasis of knowing the background processes. Like how ARP works and how to know how to "and" you know the stuff thats apparently basic is really worrying me. I guess I just need someone to point me somewhere besides a dull boring Microsoft press book. I need a resource that give me theory that I can put to work in my head to how it is used in the real world.
any thoughts
-Nick

by dukebytes

I taught a TCP/IP class at a community college for a while and went through 3 different books in 4 years trying to find a good one.

This is it - Mastering TCP/IP for NT Server.
It is written by Mark Minasi - ISBN is 0-7821-2123-3 and its worth it.

In fact you might be able to find a newer version of it now, with win2k as the primary focus.

btw - IMHO - if you ever want a book on something and Minasi wrote it - just buy it - the guy is great.

As far as actual subnetting and such goes - two words - IPsubnet Calculator - www.net3group.com. I can still do it by hand and I do - but I check myself with this little dude. Oh and you actually subnet a network ONCE and that is about it. So you may have to do it like 3 or 4 times in your life for real if you a network admin. The router/firewall boys do it all the time - in fact I think that they think in binary - but they are about the only ones who do ;)

Good luck,
Duke

by lapinga

Nick,
If you're trying to learn the basics of TCP/IP, Check out O'Reilly Publishing's "Internet Core Protocols." I have a number of their books and they are great. Short on fluff; long on useful information and examples. As to TCP/IP and Microsoft, Someone once said "I feel your pain."

by rzan

I learned TCP/IP and IP subnetting and routing in a matter of 2 days. I went to a reputable IT school. Perhaps if your only interest in IT is the money and not actually making an effort to learn the material, then I suggest you quickly change careers. There are enough paper certs flooding the IT market as is.

by ayankdownunder

Excuse me...Ive had my A+ for 6 mos now and I have a small computer repair business that I do quite well in. I also do small network troubleshooting for small businesses in my town. As far as learning routing and subnetting in two days you are full of it, and if you are so worried about paper certs then maybe you should be more confident in the skills that you already have.
_thank you for replying
-Nick

by blackbelt

Hey rzan, It appeared to me the guy was just asking for some help. You sound like you have some real issues dealing with people. Maybe it is you who should decide on a career that does not involve human interaction. He didn't mention being moneyhungry, just the opposite, he wants the knowledge. Get a life.

by buffalodan

Hey rzan,
you may have learned the fundamentals of TCP/IP and subnetting in 2 days, but actually "doing it" is where the real knowledge comes from. Your reply reeks of Arrogance, cut the "newbies" some slack. A professional must begin somewhere after all.
As for "paper certs", well, I began in this industry in 1982, supported netware 286 then netware 3xx for years by the seat of my pants. I did ok too....however, as the prevalance of windows took over, I felt it would be important for me to learn Windows networking. So, I embarked upon getting my MCSE certification.after 6 months of study and passing 6 tests, I achieved this lofty professional certification. Does this make me a paper MCSE? would you look me in the face and tell me that 19 years of experience mean so little to you? Hey, if I don't understand a concept, the most important thing I've learned in the past 2 decades, is to ASK FOR HELP. To stumble through and proceed incorrectlu hurts everyone involved. Me, My company, and most importantly, my CLIENTS. Ego and arrogance will interfere with any project from beginning to end.
This fellow came to a forum of "Professionals", asked for help with a serious question, and you dressed him down like a child. Shame on you. And shame on Tech Republic for rewarding your arrogance.
I would rather have the Newbie on my team, willing to ask for help, than you, with all your knowledge and arrogance.

by hotzmiller

Try www.webopedia.com and search tcp/ip.

there are several links provided to basic tcp/ip tutorials. I did not review them, but you may find one that speaks your language. Do not despair.

My assesment of your final question is NOT OFTEN. You need to have the skill, but you will probably mostly apply it in troubleshooting and evaluating pre-existing designs, unless you work for a company that designs and installs networks. Of course, after they make you learn the hard way you find out that software can do it all for you. You'll be more valuable and confident understanding what it does though.

Good Luck! ---H

by buffalodan

Here's the link, you can download this document in Word format, it includes a list of on-line internet resources available to those studying for certifications. I hope this helps. Also, thourough Knowledge of IP Addressing and subnets will DEFINATELY help you resolve network connectivity problems, Wherever you wind up after school.
Good luck, and don't let anyone stand in your way.

by buffalodan

Here's the link, https://www.techrepublic.com/download_item.jhtml?id=dr00320000525com01.htm

you can download this document in Word format, it includes a list of on-line internet resources available to those studying for certifications. I hope thishelps. Also, thourough Knowledge of IP Addressing and subnets will DEFINATELY help you resolve network connectivity problems, Wherever you wind up after school.
Good luck, and don't let anyone stand in your way.

by mike.keighley

yes there is a bit of difference between being a server admin on the one hand and being a network designer on the other.

in the first case you can get away with just plugging in the address, subnet mask, gateway etc. settings that the network admin has given you.

if you ARE the network admin, though, you have to decide the subnet mask size, what routing protocols (if any) to use, and (not trivial) configure the routers themselves.

so for sure you need to get your head around all this bit-mapping stuff, yes.

The clearest explanantion I ever read was in Novell's TCP/IP supervisor's guide for Netware 3, Appendix B. Since you are experienced in Netware, you might have a later version of this kicking around ?

Another good sourceis Microsoft's 2000 server resource kit, starting with the Tcp/Ip core networking guide. This normally has to be purchased, or obtained via a Technet subscription, but some extracts are available on the weg, e.g.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/library/resources/reskit/samplechapters/cnbb/cnbb_tcp_pnmz.asp

I would recommend following this up with an introductory course in admin on whatever brand of router you think you will be working with. I had to learn Cisco IOS from their documentation CD and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

To answer your specific question "how often does a network admin have to ... a subnetting scheme" :

If you have planned well, only once, when a network is first deployed; e.g. I set-up our internal Lan (a single subnet) in 1992, and added a DMZ subnet for talking to clients in 1995. Not a single piece of hardware remains from 1992, BUT neither of those subnets have needed renumbering or remasking since.

Of course, if you go work for a network consultancy or a maintenance company, you might be doing a different client's network each week!

cont..

by 4u21der

In my quest for a CCNP, i have found that great networking documents and help can be found on Cisco's site. It can be a bit of dry reading sometimes, but thats because Cisco wants you to understand everything that is involved with IP Routing.

Here are some that i found helpful:

http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/701/3.html

http://www.cisco.com/cpress/cc/td/cpress/fund/primer/cb0708.htm

http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ssr91/csc_r/56645.htm

http://www.cisco.com/univercd/cc/td/doc/product/software/ssr83/tsc_r/54008.htm

There are MANY more great article that are FREE on there site.

The four above where helpful to me and i hope they can be the same to you.

Good Luck !

by willystickaround

Not to butt in your bitch session... I have setup many networks, including labs at i.b.m. and yes, if you really want to be good at your career you need to know and understand subnetting?.

Bottom line if you can count exponentially (can?t spell though) the rest is very easy 2-4-8-16-32-64-128- 256. I know of some really good pre-test CCNA sites that some very sharp (a few arrogant) people who will tell you all you need to know? It?s Friday, so I write more Monday if you want?

by aheflich

I tried your four links and ONLY the top
one was still valid (rest not found) one
month later in March 2001. Topics would
be more useful for us to search

by mike.keighley

Some hints for making life easy to begin with:

Make sure each subnet only has one route to the rest of the world. Then you can just use default routes and static routes, no fancy proprietary protocols.

Multiple redundant routes, load balancing, hot-standbys, policy-based-routing etc. are not for the beginner.

As you note, the use of the all-ones and the all-zeroes subnets is a recent innovation, and not universally supported, so play safe and avoid them.

Where possible, subnet only on a class boundary (i.e. 255.0.0.0 or 255.255.0.0 or 255.255.255.0), until you have enough experience to be sure that all your devices support classless routing properly.

by tonyp_fno

There is a really great article on this subject in a recent Windows 2000 magazine. It explains it in several differnet ways so that at least one of the methods should make sense. I think that many people have trouble with this until they realize that it is just another way of counting. The article explains this better than I can but when helping others I found that once you figured out how to count in binary it all fell into place. One other common perception once you figure it out you will be amazed that you thought it was so difficult to figure out. Once the light goes on it is a piece of cake.

by rdb1

Nick,
I suggest if you can find a "TCP/IP for Windows NT CD ROM Interactive" because it will teach you the very basic of TCP/IP including subnetting. It also help me a lot in my personal study about Network Administration.
-Ronan

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