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HELP!!! What Would You Do?

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by packratt 2 views

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Ok, here is my situation, please tell me what you would do if you were in my shoes!

I've worked for this company for 2 years now in one location that was close to where I lived. The cost of living in my area was very low, ($300/month for a 3br rent), but the economy was poor and the opportunities for me to get a better job were limited.

Well, towards the end of last year the company said they wanted me to relocate to their main office near Chicago where the cost of living was WAY more than I currently had to deal with. I said I would move for X and they said no, you can move here for Y (which was much less) and still be fine. I said I had reservations and doubted it could be done, and they told me to come out for two weeks and see.
I came out and while I was there they said they were doing me a favor by relocating me and that they would not replace me once I left the old position, in other words they would fire me if I didn't move.

So, knowing I couldn't get a job where I lived and that I might not afford the move but would still have the job I moved my wife and two kids to Chicago in January.

It's been almost a month and a half and we've been stuck in a hotel because we can't find a place to live that we can afford. HR keeps telling me that I only have another week and that I must not be looking hard enough. I tell them I warned them about this and everyone I talk to that they recommend tells them I've done more to look than they would have and that they are crazy to think I can find a place to live within my budget. They won't admit they are wrong though.

75 replies

by packratt

So, my wife has a medical condition and can't work, my oldest son has missed 1.5 months of kindergarten, and I am stressed out that my company doesn't believe me and that I've run out of options. Now do I go home and risk starving my family if I can't find another job in the depressed economy of my previous area? Do I stay here and live beyond my means and make my family suffer as well while I lose my car and my wife if she gets worse and I can't afford the hospital bills?

What would you do if you were me, you didn't make what you were worth in the market, and you couldn't find anything else because the area you lived in was depressed and you didn't have the money to move on your own?

My wife and I have tried to think up some way to get out of this, from getting another job here in Chicago, to me working two jobs, to us going back home, or to our staying here in a place that is way too small or in a bad part of town.

We really don't know what to do now and we are stressed andscared, so are our kids even though we try to tell them it will be ok. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know!!!

Thanks.

by w.d.mcrobie

The company are not treating you right, and they do not deserve your loyalty. Hard as it may seem, I think you have to find another job. Sorry but I cannot think of any other way out - unless you can render some therapy to HR with a metaphorical baseball bat

by packratt

...And I did think of that myself. Yet, the problem with skipping out before I find a place I can afford is that the company paid for movers and storage for my furniture. If I left them now then I would be without allot of my stuff and might get stuck with the moving bill as well as the hotel bill.

Sort of a chicken vs egg deal there, huh?

by lightnin_700

to learn of your situation. Rather than think they would fire you if you wouldn't move, perhaps you should think you were kept employed rather than downsized. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. You would probably have a better opportunityto find another job in the Chicago area, should you get downsized there, than relocating yourself back where you know there is no work. Even a second job. Did they pay to relo you. Are they footing the bill for the hotel now and you knew it would be for X time? If they paid the relo, did you have to sign to repay them if you left their employ in less than a certain time period like one or two years? If they paid for the relo, you are going to have to pay taxes on what they spent -- it is considered compensation or was back when we reloed in '91. I think you are stuck and need to make a go of it there. Perhaps you can get a two bedroom, nothing fancy, in a relatively safe area, serviced by Public Transportation -- important if you must cut expenses by selling the car. Also be aware that each state has its own criteria for eligibility for unemployment compensation, which is less than your weekly pay and for only so long (6 mos here), and fully taxable. Leaving a job to move 3,000 miles with my spouse for his employment during the recession in '91 was NOT considered 'good cause' by the state I left, which was also my employer and threatening downsizing. That job was administering 'welfare'. If you don't want to live in a bad neighborhood, etc., you don't want to wind up on Aid to Families with Dependant Children - Unemployed! Is there someone back there your family can live with gratis while you have no earnings? Could you and your wife do one of those property management jobs where you could get housing free or reduced? Can you get into a place without signing a lease or signing a 6 mos lease so you can have flexibility.

by packratt

Certainly allot of good ideas, a few that I'll have to check on to see if we can do them, thanks.

Sure, they wanted to keep me and they actually had me in the wrong role before they moved me out here and now I can do allot more for the company than before, but the company isn't doing that much more for me in return. I don't know, they say that I'll have no problem getting promotions and that I'll go far here but I'm still trying to get the pay rate that I was promised when I started two years ago. (another long story)

They paid for the relocation but that has actually become a curse because it's locking me into the decision even though no contract was signed for it to happen. Originally they were only paying for a month's stay at thehotel but it's gone two weeks beyond that and it looks like they'll have to extend it again. It's not just hurting me, it's costing the company more money because they didn't do enough research or take my concerns into consideration.

The problem with getting a two bedroom is that I'll have to get reid of allot of furniture and other equipment that cost me allot of money, some of the things we have are antiques that were passed down through my wife's family. We can't sell that stuff and we can't afford a storage place around here since they are expensive as well.

I currently lease my car so it would cost more to get rid of it and it would be really hard to go grocery shopping without it, or take the wife or kids to the doctor's as well.

There is no place to move into for free back home but I am still holding my previous rental for $350 a month, yet if I can't find a job once back then I would lose that as well.

My wife can't do much of anything when her condition flares up,she can't get out of bed even with her pain medication when it gets real bad at times. I'll talk to her about these things though.

by lightnin_700

What if your wife got sick with no medical benefits to help with the cost. Any possibility that she would be eligible for SSI disability payments? Just trying to give you things to consider, including avoiding another pregnancy until your situationis stable. Good Luck!

by jimhm

1)I would contact (free) legal service and see if there is any recourse.
2) Find a place that will do for now, just to get out of the hotel.
3) Start searching for a job that will paid the salary that is needed for that area, another job outside of Chiagco.

Question - are you below scale for that area in your company. Does someone else at in your grade making more. Did you sign any relocation papers.

If you are that improtant of person that they almost forced you to relocate - do the above three things - and see if they do a counter offer to a new job offer.

COMPANYs care about themself's - "Screw the Employee" - they are nothing more that a "RESOURCE" which can be replaced. The problem when Personnel became Human Resources -Those people are Cold - Heartless and A&*H(*(s -

See if any legal action - verbal promises are just as binding - "You can live there on this Salary - we guarrentee it" - time to live up to their promise..

by packratt

We've heard conflicting reports on whether her condition is eligible for SSI since they actually have a list of conditions that are allowable. We had been working with her doctor when we had to move, so now we have to start over with a new doctor.
Trust me, pregnancy is the last thing on our minds and it's actually strange that pregnancy is a possible cause for her condition. (which is strange because her problem is with her pancreas)

Thanks again!

by dark force

I know how you feel, I did that for about 10 mos. Finally I was talking to one of my coworkers, and they told me to check into one of the suburbs. Northwest(Cary, Fox River Grove, Arlington Heights); West(Lombard, Downers Grove, Lisle); North(Skokie, Evanston, Rosemont); or South(Joliet, New Lenox, Lockport). All of these locations have either a train or the 'L' in them. Depending on where you go, the cost of living is a lot less.
I've spent the last few years commuting via the train, andit is not that bad. If you've had a bad day, you can have a drink while riding, or even sleep.

Good Luck,
RW

by packratt

Well, I've been checking for EVERYTHING within an one hour commute to Lake Forest but I can only spend $1,000 a month on rent and I need a 3 bedroom. Of course, there are things in Waukegan and Chicago itself but Waukegan is bad I hear and the partsof Chicago that are affordable are bad as well.

I just don't understand how working people can live or work out in this area, it's insane! I don't mind the idea of taking the train but I do worry about what would happen if I needed to get home ina hurry since I have the only car and my wife can't drive. (don't ask, she's afraid to drive).

by shawsj

I know just what you are going thru. I have been there myself. When I worked in Chicago, I found that even though I was making a very good salary there, I still could not afford to live in Chicago or any of the suburbs there. Have you considered living in northwest Indiana and commuting by the train? I lived in the Merrillville/Hammond area and rode the train to work. It saved me a bundle on parking fees (not to mention the driving hassle in Chicago). I was able to find a nice little house there with a huge yard for $600/month. Hope we have been able to give you a little hope. I imagine it is very hard trying to do the best you can for your family and feeling like you are getting nowhere. I am a single mother and I have been there. Good luck..... and remember the "Golden Rule". Never leave a job until you have another one waiting. Good luck!

by shawsj

I know just what you are going thru. I have been there myself. When I worked in Chicago, I found that even though I was making a very good salary there, I still could not afford to live in Chicago or any of the suburbs there. Have you considered living in northwest Indiana and commuting by the train? I lived in the Merrillville/Hammond area and rode the train to work. It saved me a bundle on parking fees (not to mention the driving hassle in Chicago). I was able to find a nice little house there with a huge yard for $600/month. Hope we have been able to give you a little hope. I imagine it is very hard trying to do the best you can for your family and feeling like you are getting nowhere. I am a single mother and I have been there. Good luck..... and remember the "Golden Rule". Never leave a job until you have another one waiting. Good luck!

by packratt

The company is located in a northern suburb so Indiana is a bit too far. I'm told I need to have a commute time less than an hour in the case I need to come in fast to resolve problems.

I've looked at northern Wisconsin but that's expensive as well and there aren't as many properties there to choose from either.

Thanks for the suggestion though!!!

by generalist

While I haven't been in the relocation type situation you're in, I have had to deal with a bout of IT unemployment in a low job area. To make things worse, the unemployment started about four months after we bought a house. Thankfully my wife was capable of working, the youngest child was 9 and I had unemployment. (Unfortunately, I'm over 40 and didn't have any tech certificates or degrees.)

But as far as the problem you're facing, I'd consider looking for housing as far from Chicago as possible but as close to a transit line as you can get. While the housing may not be in your original range, you might be able to make do. The commute will be longer in time spent in transit, but you can gain time by using it to keep up on your techreading and even working on a side business.

I'm hoping that the job change didn't put you into the 'wait X days' for medical insurance just because you changed locations. Given the stress of the situation, you might end up getting sicker if youdon't keep an upbeat state of mind.

And speaking of optimism, consider your relocation to be a chance to look for a much better paying job if things become too rough.

But whatever happens, good luck. I like seeing your comments in various discussions.

by packratt

Well, the relocation does not effect my medical benefits since it's with the same company. I don't mind a long commute if it's by train, but I lease my car and can't afford the miles. Also, the company wants me reasonably close by in the case they page me and need me to come in to work on something.

I actually told my wife that this was a chance to get something better and that I would have allot more opportunities out here. That there would be great things to do and that the schools were better as well. But if we have to move to a bad area all of that was BS and I just put my family into a worse situation that I spent my whole life trying to get out of. I started off in the bad part of town and poor, I don't want to go back and I will not make my family go there as well.

Thanks for the well wishes, I appriciate the comments and find your posts enjoyable as well.

by anthonybernardino

if I were you, I'd calculate living expenses for a year. Then I'd find a way to leverage money, or a loan for that amount. This will let you stay with your company for 1 year. But during that 1 year, you CRAM your ARSS OFF. You just learn and pick up any and new skill sets that are in demand. Then get a hold of a recruiter who'll take you on and represent you to other companies. You want to go with a big company where the pay might not be so hot, but the benefits will keep your family taken care of. During this year, it'll be tought, and you may not even be able to sleep more than 4 hours a night. But you'll soon be over with it, and you'll get a new job with a better company. Don't just settle for Chicago, look into other locations, i.e. Wisconsin, NY, California, Texas, basically go anywhere the new company will let you and your family get the style of living you wish to provide. Then tell your previous company to go F*&^%$$@! themselves. That's what I would do. Best of luck! I honestly do wish you the best. But remember to get the new skill sets that are in demand ... don't pick up a skill set that won't do anything for you.

by packratt

I planned to stay with the company for a while knowing that it would be a struggle at first but I would have more chances to learn new technologies and to get more education opportunities. But I was blindsided with just how far out of whack my salary was with the cost of living out here. Losing a few hundred a month is one thing but when the cost for housing is tripled and everything else is doubled then there is no way I can cut that many corners on the salary I make.

I did my budget and it's ugly. I will max out with only enough left for food and gas at $1,100 a month rent and there is nothing near here for that much except for a converted garage selling as a 3br with 3 10x10 rooms and a kitchen, ($1,100 a month for that!). HR has been of almost no help whatsoever and my manager is at least telling me what areas are ok or not when I show him something.

I don't know, my credit is still iffy because of my wife's medical bills from when she had major surgery so I can't buy a house or get a loan, especially with my car lease hanging out there too.

But again, I really think that if we can ride things out for a year that it would be better, but it just doesn't look like we can ride it out for a couple months even.

Thanks for the help and well wishes though, it helps!

by clearsmashdrop

I agree with Anthony that you should be open to looking elsewhere but if you cant afford Chicago you wont in anyway be able to afford most area's of California. Right here in Silicon Valley a 1 room studio will run you about 1500/month.

Wanna buy a home? Forget it. The average home price is 550,000. And thats for a 10 year old 3bdrm in an okay neighboorhood.

However, Sacramento is still affordable and big enough that there are enough jobs. What your company did pretty much stinks. Hope you find what you need.

by redtail

This is what I would do. Find a place to live that you can squeek by in. Even if you are living beyond your means a little. Then realize that Chicago is a HUGE market. Dust off the resume and blanket the town with it.

You didnt say what line of work you are in, however Chicago is short on IT players in all areas. I would guess that you wouldnt have to go more than 3 or 4 months without an offer that you could live with.

If you go more than 2 months without a response to your resumes then start sending those resumes to other areas of the country.

Dont be afraid to send the resumes to unlilely companies either. its often suprising.

by packratt

I'm a network engineer/project manager right now. I've looked through some sites and through the paper and I really haven't seen much that proves Chicago is a better market right now, perhaps it's just a bad time of year?

Maybe I just have a problem marketing myself. Everyone I work with thinks I'm the best at whatever I do and everyone always points to me when they can't figure something out or answer a question. I allways finish projects faster than other people can and I fix the things other people can't. I have good ideas and allways find ways to save time and money without sacrificing service or performance. But I just have a hard time relaying that since I don't want to sound cocky. (my wife says I sound arrogant when I say thingsabout work and how they called me in to figure out something that I thought was easy and nobody else could think their way around it).

Oh well, thanks for the advice, that's really what I was thinking but the wife and kids are going insane in here and my wife is really stressed out about having to move into a bad area since we lived near the projects when we first got a place after we moved in together. It took allot of work to get into a nice area with nice schools and nieghbors back in Ohio and I don't want to start that all over again here in Chicago.

by nise_k

Hi friend,

I am from India and can only use my judgement to understand ur problem. My suggestion is to stick to the new place and try a bit harder. But, yes! give it a max. testing period, and DO keep trying at other companies.

If God wishes everything will go fine. Just wait ant watch, and be an active observer (not passive).

Hey! are u ignoring the facilities and oppotunities the new place is offering.
Look at the advantages ur kids may get - better locality, better education.

Hoping fot the best.

Yours friendly,
Nise(23 m india)

by marktaz

First Let me say that I am PRAYING for you and your family.

I would counsel you in 2 areas.

Your wife's medical condition -

If you find another job most medical plans will not cover pre-existing conditions. So if her prognosis is good this may not stop you from moving.

What do you want to do for the rest of your life.

I live in an area where I'm not getting paid what I could if I lived in Chicago, but I am happy where I am. If you cannot find a job where you were, is there anything close by that you could commute?
But importantly find what you would love to do, because money isn't everything and your family would rather have YOU than your MONEY.

STILL PRAYING

Mark

by kol

Step back from your company's expectations and focus on your best options. Believe it or not, many of us have commuted up to 8 hours a day for many months in order to satisfy job requirements. It's not pleasant; but you cannot put sleep before feeding your family. Wisconsin is not that far away from the Chicago suburbs.

FYI. Many Chicago-land families hold their sons back in school 1 year to gain a size advantage in sports. A school administrator can tell you the pro's and con's.

by buzz70_98

It seems like you don't have many choices. I would try to get by on the salary that they are paying, but in a mean time, look for something else in Chicago. I think you should be able to find something else there.

by packratt

The problem there is that while the Chicago area is supposed to be a better market for IT skills, from what I've seen there aren't too many opportunities here either. Perhaps it's due to the market slowdown but then I worry that there won't be that "better job" out there and I will be stuck living beyond my means here.

I just don't want to risk having my family suffer, but I'm afraid that when all is said an done that I will have little choice but to try and make this option work.

by database john

Remember that employment is a relationship.
Since you made the choice to move to Chicago, start from there.

First, I would see what other employeement posibilities you have. Its good to see if you have options and its a good test to see if your company is paying you what you are worth. If you can get some offers you can negociate, otherwise you might have to "suck it up" for a while.

In the mean time, talk to HR for assistance to find housing. Put the preasure back on them. If the cost of living is as they told you, they should be able to help you out. Also, its best to work with your employer as much as possible whether you stay with them or end up in court seeking damages.

by workingrl

I think checking out the surrounding suburbs is a good idea. I found in MI that you payed a $100 a month premimun for living close to expressways. Also check out what the median salary is in the Chicago area for you position. This might give you some bargining room with HR or your manager. But, I think the "punch out carefully" tactic is the way you'll have to go in the long run. Unfortunately, these days it seems to be the only way to get the larger increases and it sounds like your family needs it. Chicago is a large area and the opportunities should be there. Good Luck.

by packratt

Thanks for the info about the tollways and expressways, I sorta figured you would have to pay premium for the access to the highways since all the lower priced properties are way out in the NW, all around an hour from my present employer and a bit too far to consider jobs in Chicago itself. Tough call but I don't think I have a choice there.

I already tried to use the salary and cost of living calculators to prove my point but it didn't convince them. It seems that they are intent on paying me what they want to no matter what, I suppose that's their choice but I hope they are willing to accept that this will cost them money in the long run. All that money relocating me gone to waste seems too shortsighted even for HR.

Thanks again!

by packratt

Along with just about everyone else in here. I probably have no choice but to just take it right now until I can get into a better situation somehow.

I've tried to work with HR but they just want me to try harded and have been of very little helpbesides telling me to call people that I have already talked to before they thought of it. I laid all my cards on the table with HR and told them exactly what was happening, what I thought about it, and gave some suggestions on how this could have been prevented and some ways out of the situation but the guy that makes the decisions in this is allways on vacation and when he's there he's too busy to think about it or talk to me or the other HR person that was put on my case.

This whole thingis about the most obscene waste of a company's money that I've ever seen, besides being the biggest morale buster I ever had with a company other than that time I worked for some really greedy people that exploited some IT people from Russia by justgiving them room and board in the same house in substitute for pay.

Oh well, again, thanks for the help!

by majkol.wanda

Sorry about the problems.
This has happened to so many people, downsize, close offices, or companies just plain doesn?t care about their employees these days. 14 years in banking as CSR & supervision, as employees reached top pay scale the demands and pressure was such It made it very hard to work. As upper management changed, the family feeling changed to cold uncaring 1 month back from six mos. leave job related, required two surgeries on my shoulder. The pressure and stress level about 300%. I would retire with three months pay & benefits in effect until my husbands Benefits went into effect. They jumped at it. Force a long time out, replace with person at bottom of pay scale & save $8,000 a year. Replace full time with part time & pay no benefits. The customer relation, the front line peoplethat made the first impression on the customers new and old, Which keeps them in business.

Stick with what you have and start looking for a better job. Employers will hire a person awayfrom another job before the unemployed. Think before you act: the car, how will you transport bags from shopping? Or get to Doctor appointments. Mass transit is great to/from work or other actives.

Make your computer work for you! Use it in your search for a better job.

Major Pit Falls: Be careful regarding medical benefits, preexisting conditions generally are not covered. (GROUP Insurance about only way, but check it out).

What is your speciality? Can you stay where you are?Do extra jobs at home as "Independent Contractor" + income.

by packratt

I am actually considering contract gigs more than I used to because of this, the only thing that stopped me before is that when you work contracts you have to pay for your own insurance and family coverage is pretty darn expensive.

I've been using all the job search engines to look and I have been sending my resume out, but people ask questions when the address and phone number refer to a hotel room number.

To answer your questions, I'm a network project manager currently and I'm pretty sure I can't stay in this hotel but I also don't know if I will be able to afford this area either. Perhaps if I work two jobs but my wife is dead set against the idea. But she may not have a say if things keep up this way.

Thanks for the kind words and suggestions.

by packratt

I've already been in talks with a labor lawyer about something they did before this in which I have a good case for. I just keep giving them chances to correct their mistakes and they go and compound them by adding other mistakes. I still need to talk to the lawyer about this situation as well.

I would just grab a place but even the places that are too small and too far away are rather expensive, I worry about feeding my family if I get something beyond my means without knowing if I'll be able to get something better.

I've been searching, even looking back in the area I came from but I doubt anything will show up there.

I don't know what my coworkers make but I know they think it's bellow average as well. I did not sign any papersbut I have the agreement from HR and several verbal agreements that would back my side.

This company takes a dim view of that practice, they just fire people instead of dealing with problems.

Thanks for the suggestions, it's nice to know that people care enough to help.

by dbertsche

I feel bad for you as "Good Old HR" has once again led someone astray. I'm assuming here that you have shown them documentation to back up your point. It would seem your only option at this point is to see how far up you can carry this but being sure to follow the chain of command. Maybe if someone at a higher level takes a look they might do something for you. Other than this I don't know.

The question you have to ask yourself is even if this company does wind up giving you some more money do you really want to continue to work for them?

Any company that would put an employee in this kind of a situation leaves a lot to be desired.

I personally have been downsized out of two companies in the past and I know it can get rough trying to make ends meet but sometimes this does work out for the best.

Good Luck!

by packratt

Yes, this situation along with a few others has seriously hurt my opinion of this company, yet there isn't much I can do about that until I can get into a position to leave.

I thought about trying to get in to see the CEO but I really doubt that he would really give a darn and I would likely get fired or pushed out just like the last person who complained about compensation levels when department heads asked everyone why people were leaving the company all the time. (yes, theis happened as well, just before I came over here).

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement and I keep telling myself that it will all work out somehow, but I think I know that if I end up out of work that the next company will lowball me because they'll think I'm desperate.

by fgreen

If I were you, I would check with the better business bureau. and also, check in the companys manual to see if there is anything that is conflicting with the issue at hand. Find proof that they are in the wrong. and demand something the would retro fit your case.

by packratt

I doubt the BBB would have much impact and I'm certain that would have less impact on HR than a letter from my lawyer after I left. (if it comes to that). Anyways, that wouldn't help my present situation I think.

The employee handbook I have has nothing in it to handle such situations so the answer isn't there. I really think that they know I can't afford this but I think that they refuse to help and expect me to make even more sacrifices in order to suit them. Basically they expect me to pull miracles out of my butt.

by jerman

You said you tried to tell them the issues before you left for Chicago. Even though you knew it would be difficult, you made your choice. Yeah, you're stuck now and it sucks, but it was YOUR choice, no guns. Too bad about your furniture, but you have another choice... get a place to live or sit in your antiques in the street. They're just THINGS. Sell 'em. Grow up, get another job if you need to, and be more careful next time.

by ceres_2

and move to Chicago where you *know* there are more job opportunities. You said it yourself that you previously lived in a "depressed" area so although returning to that "safe place" may be of some comfort, it will be a temporary fix to a permanent problem...which is not being able to find a position with a company who will pay what you're worth.

Sure Chicago will be a big, scary place at first and you'll have to cut corners and otherwise make sacrifices to make ends meet, but in the final analysis, you'll be glad you took the plunge to escape from the black hole of under and unemployment.

Perhaps this situation is happening to you for a reason.....you'll never know if it is a blessing in disguise if you don't venture out on the limb far enough to take a look.

Good luck.

by packratt

I know that and I keep telling myself that... But when I get home after working my wife looks at me, tells me we've been screwed, and then says that we should really move back. When I tell her that if we move back there is a very small chance that Iwould be able to find something reasonable for what I do but she would rather take the risk than take the leap of faith that we can make it out here.

It's hard to face this challenge without the support of my family, even my children want to go back. At lease the one that is old enough to talk says so.

I don't know, I have a couple more things I can try for and a couple more places that I found to check with but HR gave me to the end of this week and things aren't looking too great.

Thanks again!

by techiwoman

Once you get to Chicago, I would apply for food stamps, welfare and other means to get extra money. Chicago is very expensive and it may be hard to find a place to live, I would keep and eye on the Chicago Tribune, and look for a duplex or small multi-family dwelling. They often cost less than the larger apartment complexes. Contact the Chicago Housing Association and get on their low income housing list. If you are making below a certain amount (and only being able to afford $1000 a month for rent would put you in that catagory), you should be eligible for state assistance. Since you were forced to move, that should help--plus since your wife is unable to work, and has a physical disablity you should be able to move to the top of the waiting list for assisted housing. The ADA may be able to help you find work or a place to live. You do have options, I lived in Chicago for many years before I moved to Seattle. Write me and I may be able to help.

Techiwoman.

by mattthemcse

Ok start looking for a new job.You do konw you are in chicago and there are lots of better jobs out there then the one you are working at.And then when you get that other and better job tell your boss to stick his job up his A**.You know.

From: MATTtheMCSE

by cesarlopez

Ok,

Sorry to hear about your problem but I have to put my two cents...

I live in Chicago...and sorry but!!!First of all Chicago is NOT that BAD as you think it is... what areas are you looking at? Chicago is really not that bad... Public Schools have improved Lots in the past few years and There are many all around improvements in the works. The City and the Culture is the best!

There are living areas that are still cost effective under $1K. www.renters.com -- search results are

6 matches were found for you.
Show Map
Rent Address Size Features
1 $500 6640 South Carpenter
Chicago, IL 3 BR /1 BA
2 $800 A C APartments
10201 Ave. M
Chicago, IL 3 BR /1 BA
3 $900 3257 n kostner
Chicago, IL 3 BR /1 BA
4 $900 4927 Prairie St.
Chicago, IL 3 BR /2 BA
5 $1000 2-FLAT
5739
Chicago, IL 3 BR /1 BA
6 $1000 2-FLAT
5739
Chicago, IL 3 BR /1 BA

ABOUT your JOB -- JUST start sending your resume here are some places to start --
www.Jobs.com Search results are:

12/8/2000 SBC Communications, Inc. Senior Analyst - INAC - CHICAGO/IL 2.6

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2/23/2001 Regional TransportationAuthority Computer Specialist - CHICAGO/IL 2.6

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2/8/2001 Quill Corporation Senior Analyst Programmer - LINCOLNSHIRE/IL 28.5

by cesarlopez

1/17/2001 divine interVentures, Inc. VB Application Developer - LISLE/IL 24.4

11/3/2000 SBC Communications, Inc. Manager - NMC/NMS - Chicago/IL 2

2/9/2001 Allscripts Healthcare Solutions TECHNICAL SUPPORT SPECIALISTS - Libertyville/IL 35

11/3/2000 SBC Communications, Inc. AIN Services Manager - Chicago/IL 2

2/12/2001 OutSource Technologies Laser Printer Technician $30,000 - $40,000 CHICAGO/IL 3.7

11/3/2000 SBC Communications, Inc. Manager - Coach - Chicago/IL 2.6

11/3/2000 SBC Communications, Inc. Senior Analyst - INAC - Chicago/IL 2.6

USE THE RESOURCES THAT YOU KNOW HOW TO USE --
-- THE INTERNET ---

JOBS.COM
CHICAGOTRIBUNE.COM
www.apartments.com SELECT IL AND YOUR AREA

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by packratt

I asked a friend that's familiar with the Chicago area and the addresses that I coulf give that person aside from the one's in Rockford, which is just way too far out from Lake Forest, and that person told me to watch out for most of those nieghborhoods. I will check into the one's she didn't know about though, thanks for the list. I have been looking in northern Chicago and even the marginal areas are $1,200+ for rent. Anyplace within 30-40 minutes to my employer are $2,000-$5,000 a month!

As for the job listings you found, I thought I couldn't live on my salary, 20k to 30k in the area my company is in would be suicide. Not to mention what would happen to my future in IT if I backstepped like that. I appriciate the thought behind it though. South of Chicago might not be that bad, but I'm talking about north of Chicago where all those snobs live. (another reason I don't like this area now, these people are rude as all get out!)

by anthonybernardino

I say, then ... work with as many recruiting firms as you can and bail out. Take the next best offer as soon as possible, and run with it. If taking a year wouldn't work out, and you can't get a loan to budget for a year, find a company that's gonna take care of you. They'll move you and pay some of your expenses. Then the following year, write everything off as a loss. So you won't be expected to pay so much taxes. But I would also take a moment to open up a DBA or fictitious business name to provide substance to it. If you can't make it happen in Chicago, there's always San Diego, CA, or other places with profitable companies that won't abuse you like they do. I would have to say that you may even be able to consult with an attorney on this. But I don't know if you'll win anything from it. But I would post my resume' on all the major job boards. And then I would get somebody within the company to vouche as a reference. But if you need to jump ship, do it ASAP. Best of luck to you ... honestly... for your sake and family's sake... I do hope you make it through.

by planet1

Packratt,
In answer to the root question that you had here is what I suggest with all that I have read on your suggestion.

In tough times like these go back and rest on some basic priorities . . . like faith, family, and friends. Being relocated puts you on the desert island so to speak so relationships are difficult to make and cultivate but do you have anyone "back home" that you can confide and talk to also?

I drive about an hour to work to avoid the city. I know the miles can cost you on your lease but the the chance of a decent three bedroom house/apt. in a nice price range will increase.

Adjust your style of living. I was hurt three years ago and have in the meantime developed some other physical problems stemming formthis, the hardest thing to do was to drop the higher lifestyle that the rest of the workers had for a simpler one that I have peace of mind with.

Take care of your family first. You need those who will support you.

This is not the best of answers but it's what I was thinking when I read your post.

by shanghai sam

Your situation seems to be a bit of a mess. This isn't your fault but it does seem to be having major effects on your morale and finances. This company isn't doing you any favours - it NEEDS YOU and your unique problem-solving-abilities. The reality that the company you're working for doesn't hold you (or any other employee) as a valuable resource sounds badly shortsighted to me. Many local agencies can offer you better information than I, and they'll tell you about the job situation as well. You won't have any problem landing a good job - you've worked the donkey shift for 2 years - start applying now, with your talents it shouldn't be long before you're offered much better work for a much better employer - I just hope that it won't take too long to find other employment.

Regarding your car, KEEP IT! Even in the UK, having a car means you have a greater flexibility - needed for families and also dealing with problems occuring outside the 9-5 office-hours. (Since your car is a
necessity, will your company fully/part-fund it? [don't think so - but you can always ask, it would surely take so much longer answering emergencies using public transport]).

I hope your problems resolve themselves soon, remember that you have options of your own - use them in your own interests (especially if your company is as blinkered as it appears). JUST BE WARY OF ANY IMPLIED EMPLOYMENT CONTRACTS THAT YOUR MOVE MAY HAVE INCURRED.

With best wishes, C Forrester

PS: If you can land a better job in Chicago, quitely tell your co-workers, this might be the impetus they need to improve their own situation (thus removing a large base of experience and skill from your present company without overtly poisoning the well)

Bye

by swatz

Maybe try looking in Milwaukee for a job. I have seen a lot of IT jobs in the paper and the slaries are not bad. Once you get out about 1/2 hour north of Milwaukee the housing rates are very reasonable and the school system is excellent in Wisconsin.
You might want to take a look at Harley-Davidson, I have heard a lot of good things about that company.

by jeremyh

I have a brother who lives in Chicago, so I know how expensive it can get. However, being an IT person, there should be about a million job opportunities for you up there. Start lookin'. Monster.com might prove to be an EXCELLENT source. That's how I found my current job, and now I'm doing rather well financially. As a matter of fact, my resume got over 84 hits in just the first 2 days!!!

Don't be afraid to change jobs and do something different. Go where the money is at.

It sounds like you were probably making about what I use to. I just got sick of it and KNEW I was worth more. Chances are, you are worth a LOT more than they're paying you. Check out your other options.

Sincerely,
Jeremy

by gblaze

I'm not sure if Chicago's a right to work state, but if it is, you can walk away and they can't do anything.
Even if you've signed a document they'll have a tough time trying to force you to pay the bill.

by kelster

Do you have family that you can count on? I would see if your wife and son can stay with someone for a couple of months. This should help relieve some of their stress. This then leaves you free to really hunt out a job, either in Chicago or elsewhere. With your qualifications I'm sure you'll find work soon and then your family can join you.

by lightnin_700

Check the requirements for food stamps and assisted housing prior to attempting to apply. You would be shocked how poor 'poor' is. Check the income and asset requirements for your family size. Also how many years down on the list you would be forhousing assistance if eligible.

I would suggest the importance of making friends and meeting neighbors to create a new support system to replace the old. Have the wife knock on doors to introduce herself, if necessary. This can be invaluable intime of need or emergency. I am thinking here your living without a car or at a distance. There are such things as the gals making food and clothing shopping trips together, caring for each other's children, transporting to hospital for tests, etc. Been in that situation.

by oldan

Well, I haven't read everything you've said, but I read enough. Sounds to me like you're trying to hold onto everything from the past while looking for a pain-free entry into a new and better(?) life. Those two efforts are most often incompatible. I believe it is time for you to bite the bullet, burn your bridge behind you (pick your favorite metaphor...) and get on with your life. I believe you said you are still paying $350/month on the old place, yet there is nothing there to go back to. So, cut it OFF! Take your $350 and consider it committed to your new rent/mortgage. Also, I don't know where you came from (I'm a native of Fort Wayne, IN) but Chicago was ALWAYS a more expensive place to live than my ol' home, but a whole lot ofmy peers went there and thrived. It would have been very unrealistic for me to try to find ANYTHING in the Chicago area as nice as what I had for the same money, so just adopt the mindset that a) you are there for the long haul, and b) it's gonna cost you a bit more to live there, but it IS managable, and with judiciuous care of your resources, it will get better with time. Back in 1975 I moved, tripling my mortgage payment--scared the crap out of me. Six months later I had adapted to the new reality and wondered what all the fuss was about. I suspect you can do the same. Also, if the job does not work out for you in time, Chicago is really a good place to find a job, unlike, it seems, where you came from. I'd suggest the northwest suburbs, and I see others have done so too. You CAN do it, Just sign the lease, forget the old job/life, and go forward. Take another look at why you are having difficulty adapting. Try to separate out the real reasons from the excuses--usually there are for most of us about 13 excuses for every good reason. Blow the excuses away, and deal with the reasons. Life begins at the edge of your comfort zone. I wish you well.

by killer app

Tell your boss that the Government Housing Authority has offered to assist you in finding an apartment in "the projects". And that, as part of their normal application process, they will be sending a "task force" of social workers to your place of employ to interview fellow workers... for references of course. Next, tell your supervisor that you would consider it a personal favor if he/she would give an extra special commondation for you, since they would respect it coming from such an important person. Then, go to the nearest junk yard you can find, tell them that you need to buy an old wreck, that looks really natty, and only needs to be driven as far as your companies employee parking lot. Once there, losen the crankcase drain plug and let the motor oil drip over the next week or so. Oh... and put a note on the windshield that says "please do not tow away, I plan on moving it next pay day". Be creative...

by anthonybernardino

Packratt, Is the company in bad shape that they are doing this to you? I kind of like KILLER APP's idea because it sounds like it would stirr up a lot of attention. But is the company you're working for in such a bad shape that they're recycling staples and scotch tape? If I were you, I'd just post my resume' and leave as soon as possible. Most large companies are willing to pay for moving expenses. And you can use that as a deposit to leverage other money.

by /usr

Packratt, You seem like you have plenty of experience. You post intelligent comments.

The only thing I have to say is, I think your family needs to be more supportive. You are the pillar and have all this to deal with.

They MUST support you decsions,because you're doing what you feel is right.

Say in chicago. You'll do better.

by generalist

Good comeback.

When I read Jerman's comment I wondered how such a person could be so insensitive. Then I remembered that there are those types who have no link with their past and show it through their actions.

The image I get is that of the evil HR director from Dilbert.

An alternative image is Dilbert's manager after a 'management' seminar.

by epepke

Whether Jerman is an HR director, he isn't Packrat's HR director. Packrat's HR director is like Dogbert. When dealing wiht that, you sometimes have to fight fire with fire, and you *always* have to toughen up.

Now, we can all be sensitive and give sympathy. That will make us all feel good and moral. We can all be outraged at how bad things are. That will give us about fifteen seconds of justifiable outrage. Hooray for us!

However, Packrat is in *very* deep weeds indeed. So deep that all of the things he is trying to maintain are trivial in the face of what he might lose. Tell Jerman that he's insensitive, well then you're good, and you might get a spot on the Springer show. But the attitudes that Jerman talks about that the attitudes that you *have* to have in order to survive something like this. It's really fun to shoot the messenger.

So Packrat has a snappy comeback. Call All Jaffee! But guess what: Packrat's still underemployed in an overexpensive city, and hestill risks losing everything he has. The snappy comeback didn't transport him to the happy world of fair employment. Funny, that.

Packrat got into this by having a pollyanna, good-faith conquers all attitude. It's clear from some of his responses that he refuses to give up or change this attitude. Well, that's his choice. Those of us who have learned the hard way, by *losing our families forever* when facing similar difficulties, know what the proper attitude is. How many months of unemployment before the truest of true loves decides to go look for a better opportunity? Those of us who have *experienced* that know that it is a surprisingly small number.

The problem is that there's no effective way of conveying them to someonewho wants to believe that the world is a bright and happy place where truth and justice always prevail.

by jerman

No, this is the voice of experience. First time was 21 years ago, with a brand-new son, no job, no hope. So I packed it all up and joined the Army, became a Russian linguist for the $3000 bonus so I could pay for my new son's hernia operation. The second time was 3 years ago, when I bought the line a company was giving me, and went to them. As soon as I did, the job changed, I was out $25000 in salry and bonuses as my job was "restructured" before my first paycheck. Fortunately, the deal on thehouse I was buying fell through before they decided not to relocate me after all. I was on the road 24x5, only home Friday night until EARLY Monday. One year of this, for the resume, and I bailed... with nowhere to go. Hit the sidewalks, soon was working as a consultant. Who's to blame? Me. No one else. Not HR, or the guy who recruited me. So, suck it up. As I said, your wife and kids are real, and important. The rest is baggage, things, disposables.

by shanghai sam

A restructured job that puts you out $25K in salary and bonuses before the first paycheck?

OUCH!

Judging by what you said, you remained with the organization for a year and then bailed without a job.

It sounds like you needed to have a written contract before you moved. That much of a hit could be considered a form of fraud by the employer. Unfortunately I suspect that everything was verbal, so you didn't have a legal leg to stand on.

But I wonder why you jumped without a job, especially considering you had a year to hunt and some really good reasons to go hunting. Did the 24x5 schedule preclude any form of job hunting? Or does this company have some sort of tight control over what you do while on the road? (High security government?)

I can appreciate where you're coming from when you put people first and things later. But there are times when the things have a deep meaning to all involved. Abandoning some things can put too much stress on the people.

Of course, the only people that can make that judgement call are those intimately involved. We can only suggest strategies based on our own values and experience.

Different values, different decisions and different tactics. But the results can be the same.

by shanghai sam

I'd be the first to agree that Packratt has a major problem. At the same time, I disagree on how to handle it.

It is possible, if you know what you're doing, to present the same 'get tough' options with a positive spin. If Jerman had done that,even with more emphasis on the 'things' aspect, I suspect that the response would have been a 'thank you' instead of a flip response.

I also suspect that we come from somewhat different backgrounds when it comes to social relationships. Your phrases 'pollyanna, good-faith conquers all' and 'losing our families forever' hints at a cynicism based on experience. You appear to confirm that later in the same paragraph.

Well, based on what I've seen, Packratt and I are from a similar background, one with a bit more sensitivity and stronger relationships. That may give him an edge on the social side of things, even if that edge doesn't immediately translate into an improved employment situation.

And when you get down to it, this branch of the discussion may help by presenting essential ideas in a different format. Sensitive people CAN pick up on a lot of things from a less than perfect universe and learn a lot more from them.

by generalist

I'd be the first to agree that Packratt has a major problem. At the same time, I disagree on how to handle it.

It is possible, if you know what you're doing, to present the same 'get tough' options with a positive spin. If Jerman had done that,even with more emphasis on the 'things' aspect, I suspect that the response would have been a 'thank you' instead of a flip response.

I also suspect that we come from somewhat different backgrounds when it comes to social relationships. Your phrases 'pollyanna, good-faith conquers all' and 'losing our families forever' hints at a cynicism based on experience. You appear to confirm that later in the same paragraph.

Well, based on what I've seen, Packratt and I are from a similar background, one with a bit more sensitivity and stronger relationships. That may give him an edge on the social side of things, even if that edge doesn't immediately translate into an improved employment situation.

And when you get down to it, this branch of the discussion may help by presenting essential ideas in a different format. Sensitive people CAN pick up on a lot of things from a less than perfect universe and learn a lot more from them.

by packratt

I suppose that I could see how one might think that I am or have been overly optimistic about how my company and it's HR department are supposed to handle relocations like this. But the overall situation was that I felt we had little actual choice in the matter, stay and be unemployed or move and be underemployed for a while. The actual problem came in when I discovered just how underemployed I really was in the new area.

Mind you, I don't think of myself as seeing the world as a bright and shiny place. I've seen and been through many horrific things that most people have never known but to give into such events with defeatism would be to court suicide, this is something I refuse to do. So, I draw on my faith that others may see things as I do in some small way and wish to find the common threads that can bind us instead of mistrusting all and never giving people another chance. So, to that end I will always try to respect people and give some initial trust until they do something to void that.

Call that innocence or what have you, but I think that my attitude has been able to get me out of some rough situations before. Yes, my company has completely eroded my trust, so they will have to deal with the consequences of such. Yet that will happen in good time when I am in a position to do something and be tough with them without endangering my family.

I do, however, thank you for expressing your thoughts in this way instead of the way that the other person who we are discussing did. This way is much more productive and I think that you will find that I am receptive to all opinions and can see the logic and motive behind them.

by prefbid

I'm very sorry to hear of your situation. It's tough being caught off-guard in a deal, but you'll just have to work from your current position.

My recommendations:

1) Cut current expenses as quickly, as drastically, and as rapidly as you can. Do not worry about how much your employer is paying -- just how much you have to pay. How you do that is going to be highly dependant on what tools you have available to work with. If you can, have the family live with relatives or old friends fora while (I know it hurts to ask, but you need the cash flow).

2) Dump the old apartment. If the economy is that bad back there, you should have no problem finding a place to live if you find you have to go back. It's just a drain on the resources.

3) Slow pay or delay everything you can. That includes hospitals, credit cards, everything.

4) Look for a new job -- anywhere in the US that you feel like living in. (I would assume that Chicago is out of the question). If your resume has been on Monster for more than one week and you have not got a job interview -- rewrite your resume. Network Engineers/PMs are in high demand. Monster does not take that long.

5) When you do get a job offer, explain your situation and ask forhelp getting out. I know of a person for which a company paid $40K of prior moving expenses and moved him again, just to get him.

6) Watch your furniture. If the company is paying for the move -- have the furniture delivered somewhere ("going to ground"). Do not let them use your furniture as leverage against you sometime in the future.

by prefbid

7) Explain to your family that you are in a hard spot and can not easily get out. The near future will be a lot like having surgery -- lots of short term pain, slow recovery, much brighter future. Going back to the old home is not really a good option and you're going to try to make the best of a rotten situation.

8) Do not give up! Don't let a rotten current employer make you believe that you are only worth what you are getting. There is a job out there with your name on it. You just have to find it.

9) Check out your tax returns. From your description, you should be paying little to no taxes. If you did not itemize, you may be owed more money, which equates to more flexibility. Apply for a refund if it is owed to you.

I didnot see where you mentioned what you are currently making. I would think that given your job title, you should easily be able to afford a $1000 house payment and even a $500 car payment -- no matter where you live in the country. The only way you would be stuck is if you had no degree and no certs. Even then you can make it, you just might have to work a little harder selling yourself.

by dcavanaugh

Something has to give. I think you can ignore the one hour commute desire of your employer. No one really wants a commute of >1 hour, but if the employer complains, you can say it's a direct result of your salary. In a nice way (of course), you need to remind them that if they gave what you asked for originally, the problem would not exist. If they don't immediately shut up, use the "Cost of Living Calculator" at www.datamasters.com to illustrate how much your salary SHOULD HAVE BEEN INCREASED. The same site has a salary survey that might be of some interest as well. Offer to move closer to the job, IF the employer wants to fix the salary problem. If they take you up on your offer, great. If not, then it wasn't really a problem atall, right? Technically, you're not asking for more money, you're offering to help solve a problem!

Others might call this a risky strategy, but I think it's a manageable risk. Your premise is that your salary is not compatible with living anywhere near your job. From this, I conclude that your salary is probably out of line with the industry average for the Chicago area. If the employer decides to replace you, they'll have to pay SOMEONE a salary that makes sense for the Chicago area.
Besides, whatever happened to remote dialup for emergency troubleshooting? In a real crisis, I can get my network/sysadmin guys to dial in and handle just about anything via remote.

You can't keep the job long-term with a commute of over anhour, but I think you should do whatever is necessary to buy the time you need for a serious job search.

Good luck, and good hunting!

Dave

by generalist

A restructured job that puts you out $25K in salary and bonuses before the first paycheck?

OUCH!

Judging by what you said, you remained with the organization for a year and then bailed without a job.

It sounds like you needed to have a written contract before you moved. That much of a hit could be considered a form of fraud by the employer. Unfortunately I suspect that everything was verbal, so you didn't have a legal leg to stand on.

But I wonder why you jumped without a job, especially considering you had a year to hunt and some really good reasons to go hunting. Did the 24x5 schedule preclude any form of job hunting? Or does this company have some sort of tight control over what you do while on the road? (High security government?)

I can appreciate where you're coming from when you put people first and things later. But there are times when the things have a deep meaning to all involved. Abandoning some things can put too much stress on the people.

Of course, the only people that can make that judgement call are those intimately involved. We can only suggest strategies based on our own values and experience.

Different values, different decisions and different tactics. But the results can be the same.

by atholl

As they say in the classics "been there done that"

If I can be frank, I have read a few of your replies and I feel that you are allowing the situation to dictate what is happening, and allowing yourself to become negative.
I know it's easy to talk, but you need to look on the positive side.
Unfortunately you have to take control of the situation, no one out there in the whole wide world cares about you. Only you yourself and your family, You have to make decisions on what to do. DON,T let the company put you into a bad situation, or dictate where you must live, you must decide, Play there game they are playing with you, back with them. You have got some good advice from replies that you have received USE IT!!!!
I myself have been in a similar situation and I had to fight for what I wanted, If I didn't I would have lost thousands. I even had to emmigrate to another country to find employment. Financially it has put us back 20 years, but we are not sorry we did it. We sat down as a family and considered the pro's and con's and made our decision and put the past behind us. I and my family bit the bullet and did it, but we pull together as a family.

You need to keep a POSITIVE mental attitude in these types of situations andas has been suggested ,Buy yourself some time, and let me tell your company feels nothing for you, you family or your situation. What counts with them is the bottom line and the minimum they can pay you. Any other company that disagrees with that statement and puts there money were there mouth is is the EXCEPTION.
But they do exist tho few and far between.

I wish you the best in what ever you and your family decide to do.

by barbosa_claudio

its been almost a few month and i've been watch the news and i saw the U.S troops what they done to the Iraque and i support them i want kill Saddam
Call me cruise

by andyouwantwhat

Sorry you have to go through all this. But it sounds like you are in a box between a hard place and a rock. Are there not places outside of Chicago (maybe 45+ miles travel) that you could afford and commute to and from work? I understand that is a LONG way to travel daily, but it might be worth it. When I moved to Dallas, I was in a similar (but not exactly) same situation. Low pay, and only 1 month to find a place. I found one apartment 25 miles away from work. It was a struggle sine the rent was more, and the utilites bills were more. BUT we did survive, even though it did not look like it. Yes I had to get a part-time job as well in order to provide, but in the end it worked out. I am recently an "down-sized" person, so I understand your problem about a dimm economy.

Also you company is also appearing to be somewhat human by extending your hotel time. Maybe asking them for a couple days off to search for something might help? Contact your local HUD association as welland see if they have any idea's.

Any domicile in a big city is expensive, and I would hope the compnay gave you some compensation for this. IF not, get a lawyer and the contract you signed. It might be worth the time.

Best of luck

by tonyp_fno

sounds like you are completly without focus. You spent 2 weeks there and still decided to move. Didn't you see how much housing is and calculate what it would take to make it there. Figure out what the costs are to stay, to leave, to change jobs. then pick the one that works or has the least negative consequenses. I would get something/anything for the short term out of the city I drive 60 miles to work, get used to it in big cities some drive way more. If you are underpaid get you stuff delivered and look for another job quick. And you really blew that $350 a month on the old place I can't believe that that would not have paid for storage for several months for your antiques more than enough time to get a job for more than you are if youare really underpaid for the area. Oh and read "who moved the cheese" it sounds like its advice might just help you out. Turn your worries into action.

by epepke

This darned limited hierarchy.

Thanks for the thanks, Packrat. I did think that you were sincere when you were asking for others' viewpoints, and I'm glad that it was right, because that assumption is only right with most people about 10% of thetime.

The one thing I noticed in this reply was the statement that you felt you had little choice. That seems to me the crux of the problem. When you get into that mindset, people will take advantage of you.

I'm glad you want to have a better position and still keep your family. About two years ago, I would have said the same things you are. I wish I still had a family to keep. I don't anymore, due to circumstances surrounding job difficulty, and I'm probably too old to have a chanceat ever having one.

But one of the compensations of having lost everything of importance to me is that I now know what it is necessary to do to keep from getting reamed by an employer. And the first step in that is to stop carrying around a can of Crisco.

Believing that you have little choice is always a self-fulfilling prophesy. You might as well tattoo a target on your head. It causes you to make decisions that put you at the mercy of others. It causes you to be overfair and put too much trust where it doesn't belong.

The basic choice is this: A certain mindset, which you cling to, got you into this hellish mess. You can choose to maintain the mindset, or you can choose to get out of the mess. If you don't change the mindset, you will get deeper into the mess as a minimum. You may even someday find yourself ruined, as I did, and you will be unable to maintain the mindset anyway.

To my way of thinking, it's much smarter to change the mindset before being forced to do so.

This discussion is closed to new replies.