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by absolutely

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Not terribly long ago, a member using the alias 'maxwell edison' was cordially invited to take his ball & depart from TR.

https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=228435

My impression at the time was that the invitation was extended due to perceptions of his behavior as rude, unkind, etc.

My impression [b]since[/b] that time is that the tenor of discussions has gotten no better, but perhaps gotten worse.

Discuss ...

62 replies

by dr dij

since 7/26

and his address shows CA. Maybe he inhaled some marahoochie smoke and mellowed out a bit?

(libertarians and their marahoochie!)

:)

by jamesrl

Was Max getting cranky? Perhaps. Perhaps he had good reason. I kinda give him the benefit of the doubt, though I have a few times commented on the occasional nastiness that happened.

But it isn't one individual or two or three that make up the tenor of the discussions - some may lead the way, but others follow. Nature abhors a vacuum.

I kinda look at the equasion as a signal/noise ratio. I will put up with some noise for good signal (quality content). If someone new comes on and is nothing but noise, I tend to not appreciate it, but I don't always act.

This is not in any way by the way, unique behaviour. I've been on Usenet since the early 90s and BBSs before that, and the trend isn't much different.

Were people picking on Max? I don't think I'm the only one who noticed a change in Max's behaviour. I do think that some people went a little too overboard in attacking him, but maybe thats the polite Canadian in me coming out.

Should Max have left? Well thats up to Max, I was happy to have him stay, but thats a personal decision he has to make. I miss him sometimes.

Did Max's leaving make it worse? I don't think it did directly. Perhaps some people felt emboldended, but for example, Deepsand hasn't been posting much, so that theory doesn't hold too much water.

I think some people are rude cause some people are rude. I've walked away from some discussions cause it was getting too personal - not because I am weak or was hurt, but because I fail to see the point of the continued ad hominem. To me I'd rather write stuff that interests more than one person.

James

by absolutely

But, I also think maxwell edison made a singular contribution to TechRepublic, as lightning rod. This has just occurred to me recently, as I have observed what appears to me to be a greater number of posts of a more personal, more vindictive nature. His cohesive, consistent worldview, repeatedly stated with historical facts & fascinating statistics (no, no sarcasm intended there) definitely had the general effect on me of reminding me that my trivial, petty personal complaints are petty, trivial and nothing anybody else needs to deal with.

Then again, I don't have a polite Canadian in me, and I also have no experience with Usenet or BBS. It's possible I'm imagining a change in the tenor of the forums, or that I'm noticing it because I'm taking part in a lot of it, and it's also possible that even if there is a change in the general tone, any coincidence with the timing of maxwell's departure is just that, coincidence.

by jdclyde

is having someone actually back up their statements with links that support their position [i](no, I do not have any links to support that no one has any links to support....)[/i]

A good example is the troll [b] JohnBeaman [/b] and his recent sniveling about paying taxes. He has made a lot of claims, but failed to back them up in any way, shape, or form. Clearly he is either used to talking to people too dumb or disinterested in anything he has to say, or he is used to talking to is fellow nutjobs that parrot the same crap back and forth.

by drowningnotwaving

I don't have any doubt that overall the subject matter / relevance of the (off-topic) posts is down about 30 floors from Max's lofty view.

I don't know about better or worse, in terms of tenor.

Max did, as you say Absolutley, have an incredible spirit, singular passion and backed up everything he said with relevant material. And demanded the same of others.

I'd also make a "factopinguess" that Max was invited to leave TR many times over the years. That he did so on this occassion was, I'd suspect, a decision according to his own situation and nothing to do with requests or desires of others.

He also had an undeniable penchant for rudeness to the equal or better of anyone else. He wasn't always the unimpeachable 'fair witness' (to steal a little from Heinlen).

So whether or not the tenor is better or worse, is difficult to tell, imho. When does one base insult become better or worse than another?

by av .

I haven't seen as many meaty discussions since Max left. Love him or hate him, he always posted interesting discussions. I miss Max for that.

Personally, I don't think anyone could ever make Max leave if he didn't want to. I don't think TR forced him out, I think he got bored with the whole thing. Its too bad because, love him or hate him, he had some of the best discussions on TR. Sure, he could be rude and insensitive sometimes. So what. Max is gone and we still see rude and insensitive people as you say.

What I see on TR now in off-topic is lots of spam and inane posts from India that I can't bring myself to even respond to. There are some good posts mixed in but you have to look hard for them. Its a PITA.

I think TR needs to work on restoring the off-topic area to its former glory. Get rid of the Q&A questions from India for starters. We're not all technical all the time and it would be nice to have a water cooler area just like it used to be.

AV

by delbertpgh

The only things I really care about on this website are arguing and opinionating about politics, social, or personal problems. He opened a lot of discussions in these areas, and for whatever odd reason, stimulated lots of people to participate. Without him, you just don't see these heavily-trafficked off-topic threads.

Of course, he was full of specious arguments and fallacious evidence, and would yell insults at you when he lost patience, which was often and early. He was tedious, but I miss his contributions anyway.

by shellbot

I have to agree.

I never posted in any of Max's discussions, but I read them avidly. Latley things seem to have gotten a lot more "personal". Rather than attacking ideas, the poster is being attacked.

Some of the threads have taken on a childlike quality. Its my opinion that a few members are spewing out crap to purposely offend.

I'll be the first to admit that a lot of my posts haven't exactly been intelligent thought provoking discussions, but they were meant in fun and the members in the discussion took it as a bit of fun.

I agree that things have gotten worse and that if it continues, no one will be able to have a inteligent debate without being called names. I think some people have to grow up.

Max..well..he was a bit more aggressive of late, but I kinda think i know where he was coming from, attacks on him were getting more personal and ya, maybe he couldn't take as good as he could give, but he at least stimulated thoughful discussion..

by shellbot

I wish they'd leave the blogs out of the discussion listing..make a seperate blog listing for those who wish to read blogs..

I'm thinking its a conspriracy right? They are trying to "lead" our discussions and guide us to talk about things "they" want us to talk about..

However, I have no proof or examples to back this us..but I must be right because "I said it". And JD, if you don't agree on me, I'm going to tell my daddy and he's going to beat you up....oh and while I'm at it..my lunchbox is cooler than yours!
nanananana!!!
]:)
:x

by w2ktechman

to Max's posts when he just got silly, near the end. Yes, I attacked him several times, but it was trying to prove a point that he was being an ass. However, I also commented in those same posts that I read his stuff, and usually liked it even when I disagreed.
Personally, maybe I should have stayed out of them altogether, cause I was probably (at least) partially responsible for his leaving. If I could take back that which I said in some of them, I would. However, I doubt that I contributed much to the descision for him to leave, but it may have helped a bit.
Yes, I agree he did bring many topics for discussions, and I read quite a few of them. Even when I disagreed, I thought that he was very opinionated and did a great job of starting some contoversial discussions. Some even made me think a bit :0
I too miss some of the things that he brought here, but do we really know why he left? I dont think that he was the kind of person to fold just because someone doesnt like him personally. Honestly, I think there must have been something else going on in his life, and he just got tired of trying to work it in with TR. This has happened to all of us at some time or another, and it will not be the end of it.

by jdclyde

They have already said that blog readership is way up.

Could them only promoting them have anything to do with that? Naaa, didn't think so.... :0

Blogs let them highlight the "ain't I grand, I am a tech staffer, so listen to me!"

[i]In my ever so humble opinion at least....

by shellbot

My lunchbox has Strawberry Shortcake on it..and the thermos has that flip up straw dealy...
just doesn't get any better...
and yours probably has germs on it..ick

I don't believe your supporting evidence JD..
face it..my box is better than yours :0

by av .

I never looked at the blog discussions that way, but it does make absolute sense.

I feel left out. I don't have a lunchbox. :( I found something to do with all those plastic bags from the supermarket. I know. I'm an environmental disaster and global warming people now hate me. :^0

AV

by shellbot

the blogs are interesting, but sometimes just gte overloaded and really don't give a hoot who has what to say.

tsk tsk...lunchboxes were big business when i was a kid..your cool factor for the whole year was determined by the lunchbox you used on the first day of school...stressful stuff
:)

I don't hate you..(shh..i'm a secret global warming person..)

by w2ktechman

most Supermarket plastic bags are biodegradeable.
The real problem is styrafoam. Well that and cow farts :0

So become a vegitarian unlike me and then you may gain a little respect from those pesky global warming freaks.

by av .

I mean, if I was a vegetarian. Man cannot live on milk alone. There'd be alot more methane, too.

I guess I am doing my part to fight global warming afterall. Now I don't feel so bad about the plastic bags. :^0

AV

by tig2

Are great for cat box scooping! Or even doggie refuse scooping. Get creative with the plastic and go for the really COOL lunch box!

by shellbot

gosh, i never would have thought you'd actually want to see it..wow..can't believe someone is interested in my box
]:)

by absolutely

Nobody except for John Beaman appears even
interested in the possibility of not paying
taxes.

I conclude that the rest of you are all
AIs.

:^0

by tonythetiger

[i]Nobody except for John Beaman[/i]

There have been a handful of similar cases. All of them ending nearly the same way (the IRS gets most or all of the money it says it's owed, and the taxpayer falls into obscurity, financially unable to continue the fight).

It is foolhardy to do it the way Mr. Beaman did it. It's hard to fight from the position of a defendant. The jury simply found him not criminally culpable, they did not find that he didn't have to pay taxes.

What is needed, in my opinion, is for someone to sue the government for the taxes they've already paid! This will force the courts to address the specific questions involved. Of course, it's going to have to be someone with a lot of money, because the opponent has an unlimited supply :)

[added:]

Oh, and I don't think we're going to get out of paying taxes, but it is quite possible that the "income tax" could be found unconstitutional. I think the only constitutional tax would be a 'per capita tax'. Now that would probably alarm the poor people, but I think there's another thing that can be done. Since the government has the authority to run a national debt, seemingly into perpetuity, I see no constitutional reason why a citizen couldn't do the same thing :)

by absolutely

"Since the government has the authority to
run a national debt, seemingly into
perpetuity, I see no constitutional reason
why a citizen couldn't do the same thing."

by jdclyde

It is cheaper to pay the taxes than to pay the court costs, and the price paid if/when you lose is a lot more than I would EVER have to worry about in paying income taxes.

Not going to throw myself on that pike for the sake of others.

As for Tony's idea of suing the government. There are many cases where there are laws preventing you from suing the government. Not sure if this would be just one more example of the government flexing it's might to protect it's own corrupt interests?

Not to mention, the Democrats would NEVER be willing to give up this source of "revenue". It wouldn't be "fair" if they couldn't take money from people who work for a living.

Side note, I HATE when officials call the money that I earned and they took as THEIR revenue.

by tonythetiger

[i]There are many cases where there are laws preventing you from suing the government.[/i]

And when you're not outright prevented, you still have to get their permission! (A court has to determine that your issue is "worthy of the court's valuable time".)

What a racket!

[edit quoted text properties]

by faradhi

For the most part I try to avoid it. The whole tax thing that John posted was one I couldn't resist. When he started browbeating others is when I turned to more specific citing. I admit, I probably got nastier than I needed to. Mostly, I just enjoy conspiracy nuts. Yes he is one, just look at this website. http://www.w3f.com/patriots/

One thing I loved was him quoting himself on his own website. That's quality.

I miss Max, I always enjoyed conversations with him. I think I agreed with him more that he knew, but more often then not, my centrist views tended to annoy him. As such, I was the recipient of a few of his Links.

The loss of Max was a huge loss for TR.

by absolutely

I'm glad at least one other person
perceives something similar about the
Nastiness. Now, how about crop circles &
space aliens ...

:^0

by delbertpgh

It's a hard, Hobbesian place out there, and without a well-funded government we'd just be shooting and robbing each other. Sort of like a sunny day in Iraq, in one of the towns without Americans.

A well-ordered society makes us safe and rich. And it increases our liberty, if the balance is right, even though it takes away part of our money and tells us what to do. Libertarian principles should be a means of balancing the functions of government against personal liberty, not a rationale for condemning it.

by shellbot

if we didn't eat the cows then there would be a lot more cows and there would be a lot more methane..

so...that means being vegitarian is actually harming the environment?

Its steak and mushrooms night tonight folks!!!

by faradhi

steak, steak burger, steak kabobs, steak stew....

Now if I could only eat enough steak to justify my SUV! It can't be bad trying. WOO HOO!

by faradhi

lunch box would kick your Tardis all over the place.

--edited to add

don't even get me started with what the A-Team would do to little miss strawberry prissy pants and Starlight and Dish cabinet.

by jamesrl

And the judicial branch's independance is one of the pillars of the system - the tripart check and balance.

Of course if it makes it to the Supreme Court, some of the judges(but not all) may feel some allegiance to the President that appointed them.

James

by w2ktechman

I am having a BBQ steak lunch (leftovers from yesterday). Who knows, tonight may even be more steak (I love BBQ's).

by jamesrl

was what I took on the first day of school. Think I had a davey crockett one later.

See a trend here?

James

by tig2

But you would be wrong!

My Cat in the Hat lunch box is ever so much better. I even have a pink ribbon on the Cat's Hat!

Next year, I'm getting an Edmund Blackadder lunch box. So THERE!

by tig2

In my opinion, there are a lot of great debaters in this little society. Max might have been one but started to get pretty harsh toward the end.

I like Max. But I like most everyone. I at least try to see where they are coming from. Mostly because I think it is important to make the effort to see through someone elses eyes.

Much of the recent discussion has been an effort to fight off trolls amusing themselves at the expense of the community. They want to see a harsh turn in the discussion because that is their primary motivator. I have decided to psycho-analyse them instead. It's fun and I get to slap Palmetto.

We are, and will always be an eclectic mix of people and experience. I know who I value here. The tenor of discussions will improve again because those of us who are the heart of this place will require it.

Just my $0.02

by absolutely

I look forward to it!

[i]The tenor of discussions will improve again because those of us who are the heart of this place will require it.
[/i]

by w2ktechman

TR MUG!!!
Yes, it is a true and official TR MUG. Who needs a lunchbox when a mug full of coffee is all that is truly needed! Now, I shall go back to the refillable mug and let you all cringe with dispair that you only have a lunchbox.

by jdclyde

he is just saying because he has so regularly had his box stuffed, it FEELS bigger on the inside because he can't believe it all fits? :0

Not sure why he would be all smug about that though..... ;\

by hal 9000

In Series 7 or 8 I think so all you need do is get the DVD's and look. :p

That's Crop Circles at least. :^0

Col

by gadgetgirl

Are you so unedumacated that you don't get Dr. Who over there?

Neils' Time And Relative Dimensions In Space lunchbox kicks the a$$ out of anything you have there.

Unless, that is, you can find a rare United Network Command for Law and Enforcement one. Or the even rarer box, Technical Heirarchy for the Removal of Undesirables and the Subjugation of Humanity.

And if that lot didn't date me, nowt will! :p :p

GG

]:)

by hal 9000

My TARDIS Lunch Box holds several of the Lunch Boxes that you mentioned but refuses to hold another TARDIS Lunch Box because of the Problems concerned with Temporal Mechanics when you try to insert a TARDIS inside another TARDIS. :p

Currently by just opening my TARDIS Lunch Box I can see at least 35 of the United Network Command for Law and Enforcement and over 65 of the Technical Heirarchy for the Removal of Undesirables and the Subjugation of Humanity lunch Boxes and that is just the ones on the Top. There are also several of the World Domination Lunch Boxes thrown in there for good measure as well. :0

So I have to say that the TARDIS Lunch Boxes Rock as they can hold everything that you want to stuff into them and while there are thousands of Cat in the Hat Lunch Boxes stuffed in there they are all stuffed way down so that they remain invisible. God it used to be great stealing Lunch Boxes from the other Kids at school after first removing their lunches and watching them being [b]Force Feed.[/b]. :^0

My old School Shorts also have the same type of Pockets so I could carry everything needed in the pockets and never notice it all stuffed in there. :D

Col

by tig2

Few and far between, but some of us get it.

Of course, some of us get Red Dwarf and Blackadder too.

Even rarer are those of us who get EastEnders and actually understand what is being said and why it's important.

Cat in the Hat STILL beats a Tardis lunch box! Cat in the Hat can do ANYTHING!

by gadgetgirl

you don't watch EastEnders ,, do you?

I gave up watching that after year 4, it was getting so damn depressing. I don't watch any soaps at all now! I dare say I could still pick up everything from a single episode of any of them, they're all much of a muchness.

Now, if you want to see if you can actually understand something, try "When The Boat comes in" a golden oldie of around 3 series length, set in my area. They even put some Pitmatic in there, too! Or for something younger, but nowhere near as good, a series about a copper called "55 Degrees North" set in 55 Degrees North - ie Newcastle!

Put that together with your EastEnders, Brookside (from Liverpool) and Taggart from Scotland, and you'll have no problem over here!!! (and I'll even provide accommodation!)

:D

GG

by rob mekel

oops ... I don't mean re-eat but ... :^0

It's nice to see Tig that you have recovered nicely from last weekends great event. :)

Rob

by jamesrl

In Canada, Dr Who is carried by every CBC station across the country.

In the US, its only on the SciFi channel. And its a couple of weeks behind Canada, so when I was on vacation I missed some. :(

That kinda speaks for itself.

James

by shellbot

I just don't really get Dr Who...
Red Dwarf..while i can see how some may find it good..i don't appreciate it..therefore don't watch it..
Blackadder..now thats a show i like..hilarious!!
Eastenders...I'd rather be staked naked to an ant hill, covered in honey before actually watching that..and that goes for almost ANY soap!!

by shellbot

well..I am not even going to enter the debate on who has the biggest box..frankly thats not really something I'd be proud of..(being a woman and all)..being "big" is more of a man thing.

I'll stay in the "coolest" box debate

by shellbot

excuse me??
you just have no appreciation...

A Fraggle Rock one would have been nice though....

by faradhi

I don't remember seeing one. But I would by one for my future kid. They wouldn't like it, but they would get one!

I am not giving up my A-Team one. I don't care how cute he/she is. :D

by av .

It sorta has a ring to it. No Boca Burgers here, babe. Now what to do about that pesky cholesterol? I know! Pop a pill, eat more beef!

I'm buying me a lunch box. No more plastic bags. In honor of my favorite food, it will have Elsie the cow on it. Who knew going green could taste so good! F**k carbon credits, I have BEEF!

AV :^0

by w2ktechman

That sounds just sooo wrong, but it tastes soo right!
Maybe the new TR motto!!! What color ribbon will we sport for this?
MMMM, just had a sirloin burger, grilled onions, etc..

by absolutely

I'll miss his statistics more than anything
else.

The fact that we can say that, and mean it,
as a compliment, really speaks to how much
Maxwell is in a league of his own making.

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