After Hours
No, not regarding the alleged [i]anthropogenic global warming/climate change[/i] assertion, about which Neil was (is) wrong, while Maxwell was (is) right.
Neil was right and Maxwell was wrong about...........
by purpleskys
by av .
Care to share? Inquiring minds want to know. . . .
AV
by purpleskys
are you wishing to compare it with. The Global Warming that has all the politicos up in arms is total BS according to the environmentalist scientists that have been studying global weather and temperatures for decades. There is recorded evidence (maritime logs etc) that the average global temperature today is still a few degrees to what it was back in 1814. There's even scientific evidence that we're still several degrees below the average global temperature of the time of Julius Caesar.
So if industrialisation has warmed the planet, then it's been slowing down the on coming ice age.
............
Oh, it's freeking freezing down here in Australia at the moment - my butt tells me so.
by ansugisalas
About your butt freezing, and how it may affect your view of AGW :^0
I will say that there are some very wonky things in the pro-AGW materials.
It doesn't seem like CO2 can be said to be an actual greenhouse gas, for instance. Water vapor and clouds are actual greenhouses gases, but there is no hard established connection between CO2 and water vapor. There are assumptions and models, but it is too often neglected to report that they are something less than fact.
On the other hand, getting off oil is a good idea, so I am going to hold back critique until the world's last SUV is turned into paper clips. I mean, seriously, either buy a truck or a car, don't go for their mutant offspring, which succeeds only in combining the worst qualities of its parents. :^0
by hal 9000
The Natural Environment too closely. Way too many instances of something being wrong particularly in AU lately.
Little unimportant things like how many times in Recorded History has Lake Eyre actually been wet for 4 years in a row. Or how often has the Cooper Creek actually had water to it's end let alone several years running.
Probably more importantly why are the Trees dieing off all around the world. In some areas 100% Mortality is very defiantly not a good sign particularly if you happen to be one of the critters that live off what those particular trees produce. But as there are always other species that will grow there for the time being and the massive change to the Critters that used to live there and their possible Mass Extinction are most defiantly not anything to worry about. After all it's [b]"Natural"[/b] and Man couldn't possibly be a contributing factor in any way.
Just one simple observation though you had best go to see the Great Barrier Reef this year because how fast things are changing it's not likely to be there in another decade. :D
Col
by av .
Neil and other old-timers do lurk around these parts from time to time. Neil and Max always had some good repartees as I remember it.
So, no, I don't agree that he was just seeking attention for attention's sake.
AV
by hal 9000
We require Neil's Translation Services to understand the above post. :^0
Col ;)
by ansugisalas
but I've already noted that I'm not rising to that bait.
As to the world revolving around me; I'm not the one referring to myself in the third person. My reply to AV no more indicates revolving than your starter or any of the other replies.
by purpleskys
by ansugisalas
With Maxwell, you see, I am the Invisible Man :^0
I guess we're supposed to remember some specific discussion between Neil and Joe, or all of them (hero-worshiping them as we do)...
I don't mind the riddles, but I think, as riddles go, this one is sort of a non-starter ;)
by ansugisalas
SUVs really do combine the worst properties of both: They have less cabin internal space than one would imagine possible; even into a Hummer you can't fit jack, or Jack, if Jack is taller than average.
Besides, it's a long-established fact that people taller than average have to drive Morris Minis, it's just one of those things.
but ALL the sedans made since the mid 1990s have the following faults:
1. if you set the seat to sit upright and you're over 5 feet tall your head is against the roof. Sitting upright is the safest and recommended way to drive.
2. When you turn to get out of the car the knees are ABOVE the hips as the suckers are built too low to the ground as the manufacturers think everyone wants to be a Fast and Furious driving star. This means back aches and strains getting out of the sucker or sitting down in it. The seat height is below the knees, about mid calf, while standing by the car.
The low ground clearance also means that you HAVE to slow down to a dying baby crawl to enter any driveway.
However, most SUVs like the 2003 Nissan X-trail I drive has the car seat and the same height as my rear when standing beside it. I've a few inches between me and the car roof while sitting in the car, and I'm not at eye level with a French poodle when sitting in the car and the dog is standing beside it.
The X-trail ground clearance is such I don't have to worry about bottoming my differential if I hit a pebble on the road, heck, I can hit a pothole of some inches depth with safety.
.............
Ansu, I'm five foot nine inches tall and I learned to drive in a Morris Minivan from the mid 1960s, and that thing had more headroom and ground clearance than the modern sedans do.
1. I never said man couldn't have ANY effect, only his effect is minor.
2. Trees thrive on CO2, so them dying could mean not enough CO2 in the air. I'm not an expert on the particular threes you mention, so I can't be 100% sure why they died.
3. From the physical records we have available we know the following:
a. The average annual flood level for the Nile 3,000 years ago was much higher than the average annual flood level 1,000 years ago.
b. The coast of England where Caesar stepped ashore from a boat over 2,000 years ago is now some metres and miles inshore of the current coast of England.
c. During the time of the Roman control of Britain they used to grow wine grapes and olive grapes up near the Scottish border, it's now way too cold to grow them there.
d. Average global temperature took a dive of several degrees back in 1815/16 due to a cloud of volcanic ash circling the globe and we are NOT yet back up to what the average was in the decades prior to that.
4. The best estimates by the vulcanologists is that a significant volcano eruption provides several times more greenhouse gases in one go than mankind has over the last 250 years.
The world has been in a state of constant change since the day it was formed, as has the solar system and the universe. About the only way man can have a major impact on the environment to the extent the Human Caused GW proponents claim is to have a major war that ends in a nuclear winter. Yes we can reduce pollution and the like and that's all good to do, but to think we can make a significant impact in a few years via things like the Kyoto accord or the Carbon Tax is total BS.
by hal 9000
Are being overheated and dieing of Heat Stress.
It's not confined to a single species or location it's world wide and the trees in question can be hundreds of years old, but die within a week or 2 at most during [b]"Heat Waves."[/b]
As for going back in history you consistently ignore the Gas Makeup of the Planets Atmosphere as shown by the Ice Cores that go back many thousand of years. Currently Oxygen % is getting very low and when it reaches 12% combustion stops. Currently it's somewhere around 14% and dropping, so if it was to reach the Magic 12% Mark that would mean no Fire which may make the Gods Happy as Icarus was supposed to have stolen Fire from them and they where unable to get it back, however they may finally achieve their goals.
But it will also mean that the majority of Electricity will no longer be possible to be generated the Motor Vehicles will not run on Atmospheric Air without O2 Supplements or our ability to mine any materials will be drastically reduced so the current trend of using 96 Tons of Purified Uranium per Reactor to generate Electricity will be gone and we'll be stuck with Hydro, Wind or Wave Generation of Electricity.
Currently only one of those is well developed and usable the Wind and Wave Electricity Industries are in their Infancy and with massively increased costs are unlikely to continue. ;)
As for Sea level Rises Australia used to have a massive Inland Sea which covered most of Inland Australia back in the days when it was part of the Great Southern Land. These only receded when the last Ice Age occurred and the Sea Levels dropped dramatically so much so that there was a Kilometer of Ice over the land where London now stands. That Ice is currently receding and the Oceans are rising.
Weather or not Man is responsible it's not in our [b]Personal Interests[/b] to allow it to continue. If we want to continue with our way of Life we need to stop it from happening any more so we have a [b]Vested Interest[/b] in Stopping any [i]"Natural Changes"[/i] that may be occurring and if possible reversing them so that we maintain a Environment that we can survive in the way we currently are.
Sure we may survive with a massive climate change so we have a world similar to that expressed in Water World but we would not be living as we are now and the majority of the current Ocean Life would cease to exist as they rely on Salty Water at a specific % to survive but with a massive change in Ocean Chemistry the larger Animals which we rely on would perish as well as many of the Land Species.
While Man is adaptable many of the things that we rely upon to survive are not. It's not so much a increase in CO2 Levels that would harm us but the resulting increase in Global Temperatures which is causing the Mass Die Offs of Trees and Grasses and that is what we need to prevent happening if we want to continue living as we currently do.
Remember that the most basic food stuff we rely upon [i]"Wheat or Corn"[/i] is a Grass so we need to do everything possible to prevent them dieing out or worse still reducing yields. CO2 in itself helps Plants as it is a Plant Food but it needs to be within reach of the plants, if it's stuck in the higher layers of the Atmosphere where plants can not consume it, it's doing the plants harm and eventually Man Kind.
As to if Man is involved in Global Warming I have no idea but I do know that we need to stop it now if we want to maintain your [b]"Present"[/b] Lifestyles. Even locally I have seen massive changes in the way that the Weather has changed in the last 20 or so years from what my Grand Parents knew would happen and farmed expecting the weather to behave that way. This comes from a place where Droughts and Floods are the Norm not the exception.
For a perfect example Lake Ayr has had water in it for 4 years running and Coopers Creek has actually reached it's mouth for 3 off the past 4 years here. That is something that has never happened previously. Yep Lake Ayr is where Donald Campbell wanted to do a Land Speed Record Attempt on the Salt Flats and he chose that spot because it's so dry. Of course Murphy being the SOD that he is arranged for it to be wet that year which was only the third time in our history that it was.
Since 2009 however it's been wet every year and the Great Barrier Reef is most defiantly worse for wear as well. Not all of that can be contributed to Shipping Collisions or Pollution from Harbor enlarging so there has to be something else happening in the mix.
Col
by hal 9000
[i]2. Trees thrive on CO2, so them dying could mean not enough CO2 in the air. I'm not an expert on the particular threes you mention, so I can't be 100% sure why they died.[/i]
This is a World Wide Event affecting different species of trees where the stomata in the leaves close to prevent moisture loss during High Heat Days and then the weakened tree is susceptible to attack that proves fatal when under different circumstances it would be nothing more than a nuisance. That is one theory at least which seems to account for the end results but it may not be correct. After all this has only been documented for 20 or so years around the world and not much study has been undertaken to find out why it is happening.
[i]3. From the physical records we have available we know the following:
a. The average annual flood level for the Nile 3,000 years ago was much higher than the average annual flood level 1,000 years ago.[/i]
And the current thought about the Death of the Egyptian Civilization is that the Expected Floods that should have happened didn't or where much smaller in scale so the above observations would concur with the Theory of the demise of the Egyptian Civilization.
[i]b. The coast of England where Caesar stepped ashore from a boat over 2,000 years ago is now some metres and miles inshore of the current coast of England.[/i]
And much of the Foreshore and cliffs are disappearing through erosion and Ocean Rising.
[i]c. During the time of the Roman control of Britain they used to grow wine grapes and olive grapes up near the Scottish border, it's now way too cold to grow them there.[/i]
Personally I find it hard to believe that the grapes will not grow there. Sure I can fully believe that the current Commercial Grapes are not considered as Grow-able [i]"Economic"[/i] there because they cost too much to maintain and their yields are far below what is possible in a better suited Climate.
However with our current love of Mono-culture and Special Breeding of Crops I can firmly believe that the current Commercial Forms are not economical to grow there but even then back in Roman Times there was not a lot of Transport of Goods cheaply over vast distances so a Low Yield, High Maintenance Crop would still have been economic to grow back in those days. Since then specimens with Lower Cold Tolerance a Larger Adverse Frost Impact and much higher Maintenance requirements in a Marginal Environment would not be Economical to grow that is believable but them not growing is the bit I find hard to believe. After all I grow plants in my front yard that are not supposed to grow in a Sub Tropical Environment, they do but they do need a lot of special care that in their natural environment they do not.
[i]d. Average global temperature took a dive of several degrees back in 1815/16 due to a cloud of volcanic ash circling the globe and we are NOT yet back up to what the average was in the decades prior to that.[/i]
I question that superstition's/theory. I can fully believe that we took a couple of years Temp Lowering but 100 + years latter still not recovering to the then Temps I find very hard to believe.
[/i]4. The best estimates by the vulcanologists is that a significant volcano eruption provides several times more greenhouse gases in one go than mankind has over the last 250 years.[/i]
Yep that is sort of right a major Volcanic Eruption can add lots of nasty Chemicals to the Atmosphere but they have to be really big and to be perfectly honest events like Krakatoa are not that common these days, even the eruption in Iceland recently was small compared to that event and look at what happened to Air Traffic as a result.
Besides we have no control over Volcanoes that I know of at the moment so it is even more important that we cut down whatever pollutants we are pumping into the Atmosphere. We already have Localized Events of Severe Pollution which we call Smog which have resulted in major Legal Changes to the way that we do things. Cities like LA, Tokyo and many on the European Content have enacted Legislation to prevent those events occurring again. Currently it is only China which has no legislation in place to prevent events like that occurring or to minimize the severe adverse impacts. Surely you are not implying we should follow China's lead are you? Even Sydney in your Home State has similar legislation.
[i]but to think we can make a significant impact in a few years via things like the Kyoto accord or the Carbon Tax is total BS. .[/i]
I sort of agree, it's BS in the peace meal fashion that we are currently doing things on a planetary scale, though I have to ask what the current Opposition will do as they have a Policy to reduce the amount of Carbon that we pump into the Atmosphere by 2020 which is the same as the current Government. They say what the current Government is doing will not work and by itself it can not but what exactly are they proposing to do and how much is it going to cost us? No one is asking those questions and more importantly no one is pushing the Opposition on what their actual policy is.
I do however know if you want to do something it's best to do it over a long period of time to cut down the Price Shock that the population will be exposed to so even if the Coalition was to gain Government in 2013 how much is their Policy going to cost us to achieve the same stated result by 2020?
Personally I don't think either will work but I do know that there has been no major new Power Generation Station built in QLD for over 30 years, the last being Tarrong which is now nearing the end of it's life expectancy. Even then when it was being designed it was said that it was a Dirty Power Generation Station which would have to be shut down early because of the pollutants that it produced.
Since that time nothing has been done by any Government and the price of Electricity has been constantly rising out of control because no one wants to invest so much money in a Power Generation Plant that may not be Economical to continue using when something is done to address the pollution that they create. That is nothing new not one Government on the Eastern Seaboard is willing to invest the money in building a new Coal Fired Power Station knowing that they may introduce legislation which forces it to close within a decade. Similarly no Government on the Eastern Seaboard is willing to spend the money to build any Alternative Power Generation Station and they then expect Private Enterprise to step in and do it. If the Governments themselves are unwilling just who would believe that Private Enterprise is any more willing to Gamble away their money?
Look at the way that the Governments on the Eastern Seaboard have Legislated for Coal Seam Gas. It's a Disaster waiting to happen with the Gas Exploration Companies being able to do as they please with no responsibility for their actions which may harm the environment in any way. Sure go onto that Prime Farm Land pump Toxic Chemicals underground to break the coal seam and No We don't want to know what you use just do it. Then if something was to go wrong after you have got all of the gas that it's economical to get out you can walk away with no comeback. Doesn't matter if the place is dead and will never be of any use ever again we want the Money Now that we will get from Gas Revenue and to hell with the rest it's not our problem someone else will clean up any mess that we may make.
What is happing in the Hunter Valley is a Prime Example of Short Sighted Government Thinking and a Prime Example of [b]Never get between a Politician and Tax Money.[/b] Don't dig under the ground and remove the coal rip it all up and destroy Prime Farm Land in the process. It's not something we will have to clean up when you are finished but maybe you could fill it with water and call it a lake. No use as Farm Land again but as we don't have to worry about what happens in 50 or 100 years we simply do not care.
Yep I know I think wrong but I was brought up to Leave the place better that when I found it, just like my Grandparents and so on back, however now it appears that they can do as they please wreck the place and leave the problem to others to come as it's not something we have to worry about. That is certainly not the way that I or My Parents or Children where brought up and is something I find unacceptable.
Currently there are a large number of Turtle Deaths around Townsville and I'll bet you $ to Donuts that they are dieing as a result of Clive Palmer's Nickel Refinery Tailing Dam leaking which he is demanding [i]"Can Do Newman"[/i] the right to simply dump into the ocean before they fail completely. Apparently he now believes that His Wholly Owned Company the [b]Liberal National Party[/b] in Queersland should do as he tells them to and not as they are required to do under the Legislation that they where formed under. After all he knows what best for him so it must be good for the country. :^0
Col
by ansugisalas
by hal 9000
Graham Garden from the Goodies actually used that Team of Walsh Miners to dig out the UK's foundations and now as the weight disappears off it it's rising?
Pity he didn't wait long enough for him to be able to tow it to the Tropics with his 8 foot Row Boat, that really would have worked. :^0
Col
by boxfiddler Hot topic
by ansugisalas
by hal 9000
The???ve upset Davette and all Hell is going to break loose.
I'll just sit around laughing and when Davette gets too worked up I'll open the Air Lock Door and wave her goodby. :^0
Col :p
by ansugisalas
and I don't have problems with my VW Bora (Jetta). Ground clearance is only a problem when I park facing the curb, but it can be a problem then.
I think a VW caddy is specifically made to allow a more upright seating, and there's one Suzuki (?) car that's very popular with the tall crowd. It's small, but it's spaceous.
But then, a minivan would solve all those issues (except maybe ground clearance?).
by hal 9000
What is required needs to be Legislated and to do that we need to have Politicians do the Right Thing rather than what is in their [b]Short Term Political Interest.[/b]
Getting any Polly to think Long Term is like expecting an Accountant to think about a Profit longer than the next reporting cycle, it aint going to happen.
I still maintain that the only good politician is a dead politician and the old saying [b]how do you know when a Polly is telling you a lie you can see their lips moving[/b] is so true.
Personally I expect nothing from any Polly but it really gets to me when they speak down to people and treat them like Idiots. For instance Whyalla will be wiped of the face of the planet when the Carbon Tax is introduced and Here we are in Whyalla with a Carbon Tax and the sky didn't fall.
Pollies also defy logic and fail to understand Basic Concepts about anything except what's in their Political Interest this day/week or whatever. I still think that AU did the right thing and setup a Artificial Town on derelict land that no one wanted and called it the National Capitol where the Politicians think that they do Important Work. The reality was up until recently we could send them there and forget them all together and they could do [b]Bugger All[/b] to hurt the place. Since then however they have discovered that most Australians have been ignoring them so they travel all over the place doing Media Stops to get their faces on National TV and annoy otherwise sensible people and all at our expense.
Personally I think the Business that have been browbeaten into allowing T Abbott to go to them and tell the country just how they will go broke because of the Carbon Tax are fools. All I see happening is their share prices dropping and in reality who could be confident in any Publicly Listed Company when their Directors claim that they will fail? The Private Companies are no smarter either and should be rewarded by seeing their products going unsold as they will not be around to support them very soon by their own admissions.
On the other hand the Red Head is no better and needs a lesson in selling herself as she has failed miserably in her attempts. Even the previous Leader failed but to be perfectly honest was no worse than his immediate predecessor who grew into the job and was a complete idiot for the first 3 or 4 years. People forget just how bad he was when he originally got Government and how he finally got what he wanted while remaining closed off in Cantberra doing what he liked till we all got sick and tired of him and threw him out.
The last few Governments we have had here have all shown the failures of Deamocracy in that not one of them could take a Long Term View they all took the Short Term easy way out and short changed us all.
Now all we need do is exterminate all Politicians and anyone who even thinks of becoming a Polly and then we can appoint an Administrator pay them a lot less and dump them on their A$$es when they step out of line. Unfourtantly I can not see it happening in my lifetime though.
Col
the motor was only 1.0 ltr - a city car not for country driving and I moved from the city to the rural boondocks in Dec 2003, needed something for the roads whose only clear lines were the ones on the road maps.
I know lots of tall people, hell I got dozens of cousins 6 foot 4 inches or better - most of my generation on Dad's side are all tall - who drive sedans, but the seat is laid back at about 45 degrees and not upright, and that's the issue for me as it's got to be upright or I risk becoming a wheelchair driver with any small hit.
With all due respect, my friends, just because this is a public forum (hosted by a private Web Company), it doesn't mean that everything any given person might post is necessarily intended for you. ([i]You[/i] being any given person who might be reading this.)
Maybe it was intended for only one person - in this case, perhaps that one person is Neil, perhaps someone else. And for those who've suggested a peer mail to Neil would be more appropriate, how do you know? And how do you know I don't keep in contact with Neil via email? (Which I do, by the way, if it's any of your business.) Or perhaps it was some silly bet between Neil and me, that I had to post such a message. Or maybe.......
Maybe it was intended to rekindle some old magic this site use to have. I look back at some of the discussions we've had around here over the years, and so many of them were most compelling and provocative.
Or maybe it was intended to try to get some of the old gang back. I must admit, since the downfall of TR's Water Cooler (and what a significant downfall it's been), I am experiencing somewhat of a void. I really do miss those compelling discussions. But try as I might to rekindle something, the effort always fails.
Or maybe it was all of those things - and more.
I've tried several times to start something up again, but it seems to be an effort in futility - for a variety of reasons, the least of which is the site redesign.
And we still have the usual suspects assuming the worst and jumping to a conclusion based only on what they think they know, not what they do know. I suppose reserving judgement in such cases never crosses the mind of some people.
Okay, maybe I was somewhat inconsiderate to the few people who still are around for posting such a "cryptic" message. Well slap my wrist with a wet noodle. On the egregious scale of 1-10, it might reach a one. But if anyone is offended by it, or feels put-out by it, or feels left out, or whatever, you've made the wrong choice.
I keep in contact with a handful of long-time TR members, some of whom I know for certain lurk, but don't show themselves; the following is what I wrote to one of them about this discussion:
[i]Re: Neil was right about the middle-east, in general, while Maxwell was wrong.
One of the pervasive thoughts regarding the invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of Saddam (WMD question aside) was the theory that when freedom and democracy were introduced in one formerly oppressive nation, that the nations around it would soon follow suit. Kind of like the thought process of the 1950s and 1960s about Communism spreading - the domino theory is what it was called - except in this case, it would be applied to democracy.
Added to this theory, was (is) the fact that I personally knew, back in about 1979, a couple from Iran. They fled Iran and came to the USA when the Shaw was overthrown, the ayatollahs took over, and Americans were taken hostage at the US Embassy. They were young, in their 20s (like I was at the time), and were among those who wished for Iran to reject Islamic rule, instead steering towards more of a democracy. (Samia, the young lady, was SO PASSIONATE about it.) Moreover, over the past twenty, or so, years, we've all heard talk about the young faction in Iran that longed for a replacement to Islamic Law, preferably replaced with democratic rule. There was even talk about supporting them in an overthrow effort, etc. This young, freedom loving, faction in Iran was always painted in an "Arab Spring kind of way, although that particular term wouldn't become part of our lexicon until years later.
Well, I pretty much bought into the theory, thinking that Iraq, aided by America's efforts, would find a way to do just that in this particular corner of the middle-east.
No way, Neil would say. To think that you can transform the entire middle-east to anything but what it is - and what it has been for hundreds, or even thousands of years - is nothing but a pipe-dream. It'll never happen, Neil said.
It's quite possible, I might have replied. After all, Egypt is already friendly to the west, Libya is pretty well contained, and ....... blah, blah, blah. And after all, they WANT freedom and democracy, don't they?
Fast forward to 2011 and 2012, when the media was PUSHING the notion of an Arab Spring uprising in the Arab nations of Northern Africa. SO MANY PEOPLE bought into that pipe-dream, lock, stock, and barrel. Even you, my friend, bought into the romantic image that was being painted by the media about the Arab Spring uprising of young people seeking freedom and democracy.
No way, I said to you. We have NO IDEA who these people are, and they could be, for all we know, terrorists, al Qaeda, the Muslim Brotherhood, or whomever Islamists who've grown weary of puppet rulers who've capitulated to the west and have more of a secular government instead of an Islamic one.
It's quite possible, you told me, that they really are a movement of democratic loving young people, who long for freedom, and ....... blah, blah, blah. And after all, they WANT freedom and democracy, don't they?
I suddenly realized that I'm saying the things to you about the Arab Spring that Neil was saying to me about the "democracy domino theory" in Iraq. (Domino theory my a$$. Egypt and Libya just went the other way!)
I just did flip-flop - a total 180 degree turn-around - regarding those two opinions, which are separated only by a few years. And I had just heard an interview on the radio that morning with Robert Spencer about the latest developments in Libya and Egypt - and Iran and Syria, who are supporting the Muslim Brotherhood's efforts to institute Islamic rule in the middle-east from Pakistan in the east to Morocco in the west. An Islamic swath so large that it would rival the influence of the super powers of the world.
I guess I've always had, somewhat, contradictory outlooks about the middle-east. How many times have I suggested that the USA should tell the despots of the middle-east to shove their oil up their tailpipe? Too many to count. (Assuming we harvest our own oil.)
So I've flipped, or I was wrong, on the middle-east - regardless of the nation in question. Freedom and democracy in the middle-east? Only in our pipe-dreams. And we should establish policy - both domestic and internationally - on reality, not pipe-dreams.
P.S. I read once that it was not only common place, but almost expected for Arabs, Muslims, etc. to LIE in negotiations and such. I wonder if that's true?
-----------
For some reason, I keep looking for a reason to post again at TR, even though I also keep saying no more.
Consider this. Of the last few discussions I started, one was censored and didn't get posted; a second discussion questioning why the previous was censored disappeared after a day; any and all inquiries as to what's going on fell upon deaf ears; "Moderator" Tammy said she would look into it, but she never felt obliged to either post what she discovered and/or contact me about it; an email to "Moderator" Nick went unanswered; and another post was most rudely criticized by .......
Kind of reminds me of beating one's head against the wall. [/i]
Note: The preceding email was posted here, in this discussion, upon the suggestion of the person to whom I wrote it.
There ya' go.
by ansugisalas
This reminds me why the smiley was invented. Bare text is too open to misinterpretation. ( :p )
Your idea that the antics of the spaghetti mess that is the Gi-normous TR code are somehow a conspiracy against you is very interesting. I will refrain from expounding, since you may not read what I write, and I don't feel like talking about you behind your back, as it were.
Also, I feel about as threatened by an islamic swath as I feel by the christian swath spanning even more of the globe. Which is to say, I feel some moderate trepidation.
However, there are dangerous islamic nations and there are peaceful ones. Letting the tabloid and populist hysteria scare me would be the utmost folly.
I will not.
..... I refuse to do smiley faces. (insert smiley face here)
I also refuse to accommodate anyone's self-imposed lack of critical thinking, or people who think they need smiley faces to understand the written word. (insert yet another smiley face here)
You know what I mean?
Re: [i]".....are somehow a conspiracy against you is very interesting...."[/i]
When did I suggest it was a "conspiracy" against me? And it illustrates how you think you know what I think, instead of limiting your reply to what I say.
You people who throw around the "conspiracy" word in an attempt to discredit a person or their message is bogus. But it's similar to things you have proven to do time and again, and is a big reason why I treat you like the "invisible man".
In short, I try to avoid replying to people who say stupid things.
Well, reading anyway...
Wonder what else I'll prove to be right about. (smug mode)
And a note to Ansu's post, above. My original comments to Max were not to the effect that there would necessarily be some sort of theocracy following on from the Iraq war but that there wouldn't be any thing that we, the West, would recognise as democracy. Sectarian and/or tribal splits were what I prophesied for Iraq and, now, for Libya. The only difference between Iraq and Libya is that in Iraq there is an extra complication of nationalism - get the foreigner out - and it will be interesting to see what happens when the troops go.
Interesting times,..
p.s. I think the best form of government for Iraq and Libya is probably some sort of strong dictator to keep the lid on the Islamists and suppress the tribalism. Ah. Um. They had that, didn't they...
I love your "smug" modes.
Okay, back to reading your message.
And I think a reassessment of events is certainly in order. The same goes for Afghanistan, right now. If we keep doing what we've been doing, one can surmise that we'll keep getting what we've been getting. And more American soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan over the past three years than in the first seven years combined. (Although Obama's minions in the media don't report such things.)
Democrats thought Obama would close Guantanamo - SURPRISE! I told them Obama would never close Guantanamo, but they didn't believe me.
Democrats thought Obama would do better in Afghanistan than Bush fared, but he's doing worse - much worse - including the fact that he's totally pissed off people in Pakistan.
Now I'm waiting for all the "progressives" around here to look back at things like the failed "War on Poverty" and any number of other social transfer of wealth programs, and use the benefit of hindsight to correct themselves; to admit that their reasoning and predictions were flawed; to admit that their predicted outcome not only didn't happen, but their programs actually made things worse; and that they are failed policies that should (eventually) be abolished. But no, their way of fixing THEIR flawed and/or mistaken reasoning and/or predictions is to throw more of the same failed policies and bad money at it.
Or the anthropogenic global warming / climate change crowd and their doom and gloom predictions of twenty five years ago that haven't even come close to happening. I was recently reading a National Geographic from 1981, and what they predicted is laughable today. I suppose I'm laughing at them more today than I was twenty five years ago.
by av .
A message to Neil. I hope he sees it and decides to post again. It sure would be nice to hear from him and others that used to post here.
I hate to say it, because I had so much hope for the "Arab Spring", but it looks like Neil really was right about the Middle East. Some people really do not want to be free. Its hard for me to fathom that, but looking at the results of the recent elections in Egypt, Syria and Tunisia, they all elected Islamists. It will be interesting to see if the new ruling governments will curtail their current freedoms and institute Sharia Law.
AV
by ansugisalas
..... my [i] "insinuating string of remarks".[/i]
I assume you mean these.
Of the last few discussions I started:
1. one was censored and didn't get posted;
2. a second discussion questioning why the previous was censored disappeared after a day;
3. any and all inquiries as to what's going on fell upon deaf ears;
4. "Moderator" Tammy said she would look into it, but she never felt obliged to either post what she discovered and/or contact me about it;
5. an email to "Moderator" Nick went unanswered;
6. and another post was most rudely criticized by .......
I ask you, Ansu. Which ones of those "insinuating string of remarks" is not 100 percent true? I insinuated nothing; I made six statements of fact.
But as usual, there you go again.
by ansugisalas
by ansugisalas
Doesn't matter who follows me and whom I follow back - and for some reason this issue has remained unresolved for over a year ;)
So, I can't email you, or I would.
by ansugisalas
But I think how long it took us to get the approximation of democracy that we have and we started in 1295 when Edward I set up the first parliament. No women in it, though, and it took WWI to get women the vote but then only for the over 30s as their brains take longer to mature, bless them...
US civil rights? Hmmm.
The last bit of the British Empire, Ghana, was given back - for want of a better term - in 1957.
And we should give the Arabs lessons in democracy? Gah!
The European Union is in the process of rolling back democracy. It is one of the most anti-democratic organisations that there possibly can be. I suppose the way that "leaders" have been imposed on the Greeks and Italians is about on a par with our actions in Irag, though.
I could go on. Having broken my duck (Cricket metaphor) with my post some weeks ago, I am doomed to Hell for breaking my holy vow of non-posting but the chance to score an "I TOLD YOU SO" on Max was too good to miss.
Neil
by ansugisalas
interventionism can backfire... who'd have thunk?
As always though, it's not about the kind of state or the kind of leadership. It's about the size of the middle class.
Democracy is great when it elects people I agree with, but when it elects Jobbik in Hungary, or powers an economic sinkhole like Greece, I am reminded of Churchill's opinion of it.
I hope you'll keep sinning against your vows, Neil, you have interesting perspectives.
I've just come back from two weeks in Italy so I'm very chilled and I thought I'd see what was happening at TR and, what do you know, I am in the title of the Top Thread! And I could get in an "I told you so" (my second, since 2003).
How could I resist?
by av .
Ah, beautiful Italia. You always take the best vacations. You have to admit it is almost a once in a lifetime event when Max admits he was wrong. I had no idea that he did that once before.
AV
I drove through five (very, very rainy) countries on the first day, finishing in the Black Forest. Then across Switzerland and over the Gotthard Pass (thankfully, now in the sunshine) to Lake Maggiore. Across northern Italy to the beautiful spa town, Salsomaggiore. Then on to Rimini for five days as a beach bum. Lake Garda - Sirmione, one of the most beautiful little towns on the end of a narrow peninsula. Then, on to Aosta in the Alps. Over the Grand San Bernido Pass back to the Balck Forest. Then home (again, through the rain).
Seven countries, 2,500 miles driving and about the same in spaghetti.
About what?
I seem to recall that it is you who lost the [i]"I Told You So"[/i] steak dinner bet to me? Or are you referring to something different?
by hal 9000
Did the ground move for you while you where in Italy or where you there after the event?
I'm still trying to find out if the Ducati Factory was hit and suffered any damage. After all I need my Ducati Parts and they just have to supply them when I want them. :D
Col
about the ability of present-day USA to send a man to the Moon - and bring him back.
There almost certainly are other subjects (MMGW is still up for grabs) but for this, and the Middle East, I have the admission.
But I did lose a bet on a steak supper, which you have yet to collect.
And I even proved myself wrong by going to my own "rocket scientist" friend.
(Yes, a real rocket scientist who plays with real rockets. He works at a small place called Lockheed Martin.)
by hal 9000
by purpleskys
by purpleskys
by hal 9000
But with Audi now owning Ducati all I can say is that the Crazy Italian Mindset will drive the Good German Efficiency over the nearest cliff in despair.
In WW11 Germany's Mistake was invading Italy who being an Ally wouldn't do things the way that the Germans wanted and when they did take over they where constantly pulling their hair out trying to get things done even to the standards of the Italians.
Honestly we now have the worst of all worlds a Great Ordering System setup by the Germans run by the Italians and as a direct result nothing gets delivered. :^0
Col
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