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Occupy Wall St.

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by av .

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I'm excited to see people protesting in the streets about the poor state of our country. I might join them one day! Though they are loosely defined right now, I think Occupy Wall St. is a revolt against greed, money and power, but mostly it???s about the power of the people when they unite for a common cause.

These signs speak for themselves. They are very honest. (some profanity)
http://www.buzzfeed.com/fjelstud/the-best-signs-from-occupy-wall-street

This revolt is fueled by the joblessness in this country and the 2008 financial meltdown caused by reckless banking practices. It???s about the growing inequality between rich and poor. The banks got bailed out on taxpayer money. Failed big businesses, like GM and AIG, were bailed out. The rest of us were left a lot poorer as a result. Four long years after the meltdown, economic conditions look bleaker than ever for many people.

When I look at the Occupy Wall St. protesters, I see people that just want to have a fair shot at a decent life. Isn't that what we all want? They aren???t the Tea Party of the left. I think they are mostly apolitical, at least right now. It will be interesting to see where this growing movement goes and what effect it will have on our government and our lives in the future. I don't think its going away.

They have achieved one major thing so far. They started a conversation in this country about greed and how big money people and corporations control our government, not the people. That's a conversation worth having.

An interesting take . . .
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/14/opinion/kohn-occupy-protest/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

AV

162 replies

by jp85257

A union sponsored, Soros funded spectacle with paid protesters. That will REALLY open up good conversations about the economy and jobs.

by av .

Its about disgust for our current system by the little people in this country that lost a lot. Its a gut level, honest protest about the state of our country. Its just the beginning.

AV

by jp85257

It IS just the beginning. With the likes of Obama, Pelosi, and Sharpton fanning the flames, we'll soon have riots in the streets, giving them the perfect opportunity to force more of their agenda down our throats without giving us a chance to vote on anything. They'll take away even more of our rights on the pretense of "protecting us".

by hal 9000

The Racist Bigots that make up the Tea Party.

But the reality here is that the people who are involved in the Wall St Protest are all [b]Commies.[/b] They refuse to believe that [b][i]Greed is Good[/b][/i] and that [b]Private Enterprise[/b] is the best thing since sliced bread.

[b][u]Shock Horror[/b][/u] they even believe that 1% of the population shouldn't hold 90% of the wealth and 99% of the Population should at best have access to 1% of the countries wealth that they maintain.

[i][b]Obviously Communist Beliefs as there is no other possibility possible.[/i][/b]

Col [/Sarcasm]

by dhays

The head of the C Party USA spoke to the Occupy Chicago rally and many in the crowd applauded and agreed with what was said.

by hal 9000

You know the [b]Old Story.[/b]

Never let the Truth get in the road of a Good Story. All you need do is say a Lie often enough for some to start to believe it, God I see that in the Media all of the time they say that they Report Stories when they are actually pushing their Own Agenda and [b]Making Up[/b] what they want to report.

If enough people sprout that Lie on places like Tweeber where the Twits hang out I'm sure that you'll get some Idiot from the Main Stream Media Report it as Fact possibly Fox News? After all what they have has never been described as News just Entertainment.

Though honestly that does kind of worry me that Light Entertainment can be passed off as News and not many question the motives of the Crowd doing it.

Now let me tell you how those members of the Evil Press in Opposition to Rupert Bare, Hacked Rupert's Phone and passed all of the nasty stories to it to be reported in the News of the World.

Poor Little Rupert Bare is the Victim here of a Hostile Takeover, you'll be able to read that soon on Tweeber and the Twits there will believe it. ;)

See it's all a Big Conspiracy to discredit Rupert Bare and take over his Organization. He's the Victim here not the Bad Guy who will do anything to make money. :^0 :D :^0 :D :^0 :D

[b]See tell the same lie often enough and some one somewhere will eventually believe it.[/b] ;)

Col

by hal 9000

With the Likes of Palin, Rick Santorum, Donald Trump & Co they would cause Riots in the Streets if they ever rose to a position of Power.

Though personally I do not believe that State Sanctioned Genocide against Peaceful people who's only crime is to disagree with those in power actually constitutes a Riot. Though I suppose them attempting to run away as the State Sponsored Uniformed Terrorists try to kill them is completely unacceptable as it would expand the Collateral Damage to a greater area. But these proposed Leaders have good teachers in Lenin, Starlin, the current Governments of Lebanon & Syria, and so on. Anyone who dares to disagree with leaders like these needs to be Exterminated. ;)

After all it would have to be Treason in their Eyes for someone to disagree with them so they would feel perfectly happy to Order in the National Guard with Orders to [b]Shoot to Kill[/b] all those who peacefully disagree with them.

As all these supposed leaders are [b]Right by Birth[/b] and can do no wrong can they? :^0

Obviously the Riff Raff who disagree with them are the Rabble than need to trampled underfoot and destroyed for the [b]Good of the Country[/b] as how dare anyone disagree with their views on anything.

Remember [b]Greed is Good.[/b] :D :^0 :D :^0 :D :^0

Col [/sarcasm]

by av .

Our federal government doesn't get anything done for the people of this country. They don't represent the people of this country, they represent big money interests.

There are a lot of us riff raff around. Just think what a big voice we can have if we unite.

AV

by hal 9000

What's wrong with having a bit of Fun and getting a Good Laugh at the ramblings of some? :D

After my posts here some may even believe that I like some Politicians. :^0 :D :^0 :D :^0 :D

Col

by jp85257

Look at how often you hear:

"The Racist Bigots that make up the Tea Party" without anything to back up the statement.

by charliespencer

One of the Tea Party's problems is that it isn't really a party. It's preferred decentralized approach allows anyone to claim he is the leader or spokesman for a local branch. The more outlandish his position, the more media attention he's going to receive, especially internationally.

There are several small but vocal groups from the extreme right wing that have entered their floats in the Tea Party's parade. These include survivalists, neo-Nazis, 'White rights', secessionists, etc. They're not necessarily typical of the movement as a whole, but there's no central organization to distance itself from them.

by jp85257

So far they've garnered support from the American Nazi Party, Socialist Party USA, Communist Party USA, and Red China among others.

by hal 9000

That would be posted and it would break TR completely.

But if you want to look with Open Eyes just pickup any Mass Media Publication and read it. You'll find the necessary information to prove that they are Raciest Bigots.

I don't need to post links to what is the [b]Bleeding Obvious[/b] to anyone with even half a Lobotomized head.

Now that we have finished with that lot of scum lets start on the rest of the waste of space Politicians. :p

Col :^0 :D :^0 :D

by jp85257

all those people of other colors that attend the Tea Party meetings would be shocked to find out they're all racists.

Maybe, it's just the publications you subscribe to.

BTW, did you know if you say the word "guacamole" real slow, it sounds just like you're saying "gullible"?

by charliespencer

All I'm hearing from this crowd is complaints. If they've offered a single viable suggestion, I haven't yet heard it. In this, they're not different from the Tea Party movement.

I wonder how many of those in either movement is even registered to vote. Of that 99% they're so concerned with, only 71% were registered in 2008, and only 64% voted. The one-third of us that sit on our butts could easily out-vote that 1% this movement thinks is taking unfair advantage.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2010pubs/p20-562.pdf

by charliespencer

although I do question their deciding the legal entities have the same rights as people, and that donating money is equivalent to speech. I'll stick to my platform of changing campaign finance so that only those registered to vote in a district can donate money to its candidates. If you aren't a registered voter in Miami, you can't contribute to people running for mayor. If you aren't registered in Michigan, you can't donate to its gubernatorial or US senatorial candidates. (Why the hell is the governor of SC fund raising in NY???) You can only vote for one candidate in the primary and one in the general election, so you can only donate to one candidate in each of those contests.

It will take a Constitutional amendment to override the Supremes' decisions. It would certainly save candidates all that fund raising they claim they abhor. It would also take corporation, unions, non-profits, etc. out of the game.

by av .

They don't have a clear message yet, but I think they will one day. I'd like to see them stay unaffiliated with either party. The Dems are trying to harness their anger, but I think both parties have already shown they aren't representing the interests of most of us.

If they were, we would have jobs in this country, for anyone that wants to work. People that cheated all of us out of our retirement savings would be in prison.

When I look at the people that are protesting, I see a lot of young people. I think that's good because the future is theirs. They have fancy educations, big student loans and jobs are just a dream. Maybe all of them didn't vote in 2008, but that could change given the state of our economy.

There is too much voter apathy. People that don't vote don't understand that's all the power you have. In the end, voting or not, this country is still in the pits.

AV

by ansugisalas

or at least make it harder for them.
The republicans have gotten burned for doing campaign financing stunts to squirm out of even the present rules (DeLay, anyone?) ... so I guess they'll wanna at least try to screw over a new system as well...

But other than that, it sounds really good.
Occupy Wall street can probably be swung around to support that one, rumble it through.

by jp85257

No mention of any Democrats who have gotten burned for breaking campaign finance rules?

Your bias is showing.

by hal 9000

Politicians are Bastards who suck the life out of any country.

They are the lowest scum on the face of the planet who do nothing and take the benefits of the uneducated who believe what they are told that Politicians are Important [i]when that was a misprint and should have read Impotent[/i] Are worth the money you pay them [i]as if any useless blood sucking leach is worth anything other than death[/i] Set the Direction that the Country Takes [i]when they are really just engaged in Knee Jerk Reactions to what appears in the Mass Media.[/i]

Get with the program and Exterminate the Entire Subspecies of Homo Sapian, Homo Politicius.

That subspecies evolved from the Telephone Sanitizers and Market Researchers who where told that they where being sent away from their dieing planet to start a new world. When they left the planet returned to Life.

The idea was to have then crash into any planet and all die. Unfortunately because several Market Researchers who worked on the exterior color of the Spaceship where involved in the project not all died when the ship crashed into Earth 6 thousand years ago and the rot has been going on ever since getting worse.

So join the new Sport who's sole aim to to eradicate Politicians in any from from the face of the planet. If you join now you'll be able to compete in the 2012 Olympic Games [b]Stalking and destroying Home Politicius.[/b] And if you really want to scare naughty little children you can cut off their heads have them stuffed and mounted and then hang them on your favorite wall.

Though that may be considered as Cruel and Inhumane abuse for children but any sensible person. ;)

Col

by ansugisalas

Or have members of OWS set themselves up as spokespersons for OWS?
Palmetto said the teabaggers were having these problems (of spokepersons which cannot be rejected, because there is no authority to deny them), not that they were in trouble for receiving support from unwanted sources.

If OWS sticks to a single message (unlike the tea party, which seems to have an ever diversifying agenda), they won't have those same problems. Anyone speaking outside the message will have cut themselves out.

by jp85257

"If OWS sticks to a single message (unlike the tea party, which seems to have an ever diversifying agenda)".

Just what is the single message that OWS is supposedly sticking to? I've listened to dozens and dozens of interviews and most of the people don't have a clue why they're there.

And if you're going to continue to call the Tea Party, "teabaggers", please start referring to OWS as "fleabaggers". It's only fair.

by ansugisalas

No message can't be hijacked.
Anyway, I dunno where I saw the "teabagger" nickname, but I thought it's a fun historical pun. What with carpets and whatnot.

Fleabaggers? How about Scumbaggers? After all the 99 to 1 % thing sets the riff-raff scene nicely.

by jp85257

the "teabagger" moniker is referring to an obscure sexual practice. You know, the kind that only liberals would engage in. ;-)

by av .

Neither side represents the people. They all represent Corporate America and Wall St. That's what the problem is.

There's a difference between partnering with business in a joint venture and accepting huge campaign donations to influence policy direction from wealthy donors.

AV

by seanferd

It worked for the other guys, didn't it?

Actually, I don't think anything will be forced down your throat, though. Except Obama continuing to uphold the crap that was put in place before he was teh Prez.

by seanferd

The idea would be to not let them hijack anything positive.

Corporations are a bad idea, and bad in practice. So is the deregulated financial and trading sector. If the Nazis thing "teh ebul Joos" are in control, well, that's their problem. If the OWS as a whole starts going "mmm, Nazis, yum!", then you have a point.

Coomunists - what are there, like five of them? Oooh, scary dangerous! Dial up McCarthy so he can invent some more to hunt down.

by seanferd

You realize that was a self-adopted name of the teabaggers before they figured out there was another use for the concept of "teabag", right?

It's one of the reasons they are so amusing.

by hal 9000

Don't let silly little things like Facts get in the road of a Good Story.

I read it on the Internet that the Occupy Wall St Group is a bunch of Anti American Commies so it must be true and everything that they push on the masses is lies. :^0

Needless to say that the idea began in Spain with a group of Students Protesting about a Lack of Jobs and has spread World Wide but we'll not let silly Little Facts get in the road of a good story. :^0 :D :^0 :D

Col

by jp85257

From the first lines of your link:

"Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands."

by ansugisalas

On the other hand, how else would you expect anyone to launch a nefarious plan?
It's the oldest trick in the book:
Day before D-day: "There is no Master Plan".
Day after D-day: "What? You believed that?!?"

by ansugisalas

reading those comments hertz my brain!

And the demands are dumb. No point in going after an end-stage in mid-struggle... or nascent struggle as it might be, if it doesn't peter out.

Just go for a kill on the one thing that keeps the present system alive - citizen rights for corporate entities.

Kill that. Then see what happens, adapting as you go.

Shooting for the stars is a good way to land on one's ass.

by hal 9000

I have a lot of time for Demand 4 Free College Education.

For a Leading Economy of the world where very little is any longer made this is a necessity. But the down side is a better educated population makes things harder for the Current Government to get away with or introduce silly Policy. Of course the same applies to the Current Opposition when they became the Government they have a harder time and if as the Current Opposition they introduce Silly Policies they get howled down just as quickly as the Current Government.

Countries like South Korea who actively Push Higher Education onto their citizens have a distinct advantage as a Country when it comes to the New World Order where Technology is the Ruler and the low end nonpaying Jobs simply no longer exist.

If you want to live in a High Technology Forward Facing Community you need to be both Highly Educated and Employed in a position that you can afford to Live on. That doesn't mean working for Minimum Wage in the Low End of the High Tech Society but a Living Wage so you can afford to actually live.

That doesn't mean you need 4 Million per hour but it also doesn't mean you get $10.00 per hour when you need to be earning $60.00 just to buy food and pay rent.

Without a Highly Educated Population the country can not move forward and will not make the most possible from the New World Order that is being pushed by Big Business. ;)

Col

by charliespencer

"Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands."

Or maybe because it says 'There is NO official list of demands'?

Assuming this is the movement's 'official' web page, I'm glad to see them distance themselves from this list. Some points are mutually exclusive (guaranteed wage AND open borders), others ignore economic reality (free college, 2 trillion in infrastructure and ecological restoration), others violate freely entered business arrangements (debt amnesty, abolition of health insurance). I'd distance myself from this poorly considered list, too.

Once again, this is one of the problems with a decentralized movement; anyone can present himself as its voice.

by jp85257

regarding debts. I just hope they give me enough notice so I can buy a mansion, 3 new cars, a boat, a pool, and a lot of gold before all debts are forgiven. ;-)

by av .

They don't have one right now. Note the disclaimer at the top of your article. It is one person's opinion.

"Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands."

I think by not defining themselves collectively, it makes them all the more interesting. The only thing we really know for sure is that they're not happy with the state of our country or our politics. I'm not happy with the same things, so I can relate to them on that level.

I think OWS was inspired by the Arab Spring and particularly what the people in Egypt accomplished by unifying. I don't think OWS wants to overthrow the government, I think they want to fundamentally change the way things are done, utilizing the power of the masses. They want the government to listen to the people. What this group has going for it is its unity and its very big voice. Power to the people! We haven't had that spirit here since 1969. I like it.

I heard this interview today from two of the OWS protesters in NY. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/#44951473

I thought it gave you some insight into their motivations. I thought I was back in the late '60's.

AV

Edit: I'm having a hard time determining if my post goes in the right place, so I added a name to the title.

by hal 9000

TR

Where you make a post and it's likely to appear anywhere on the site. It may even appear off planet. :D

Ain't Technology Wonderful. :^0

Though to be perfectly honest I heard that this started in Spain with Students Protesting about the lack of employment not Egypt. :0

Col

by hal 9000

In the Main Stream Media.

As a person who Hates ALL Politicians I don't give any of them the smallest chance to warp my mind with their misguided beliefs and downright Bull _Shit. Just listen what the so called Members of the Tea Party say they want to achieve and it's very hard to believe that they are anything but what they are.

Of course if you are a fully Lobotomized Fool who believes that Politicians are there for our own good and firmly believe the saying [b]Hi I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you.[/b] There is no hope as not even the Gullible believe that crap. :D

Once upon a Time in a Galaxy Far Far away I was involved in the starting of a Community Group and the Loonies that crawled out of the woodwork attempting to Hijack that Organizations Agenda for their own ends had to be seen to be believed.

Needless to say getting rid of the Loonies and Red Necks was the easy part as once they even looked as if that crowd had been involved no one took any notice of the Organization again and just dismissed them as Fringe Loonies.

It took 2 years to get back to where we where before that first Open Meeting which was open the the public where groups like the Confederate Action Party, Survivalists, neo-Nazis, 'White rights', secessionists, etc. We even had members of Shin Fein wanting to join.

When you let it be known that you associate with those type of people you are shot before you begin and unless you do something to stop them hijacking your Agenda which the Tea Party [b]Has Not[/b] you get exactly what you deserve.

If you are happy to be associated with those people to get Press Coverage you are a Racist Bigot who deserves no second thought. :D

Basically if you do nothing to prevent that type of Person/Organization from representing you and actively encourage them to you are ignored from the very beginning as a Dangerous Bunch of Fringe Radicals who need to be shut down at best and left alone to stew in their own juices normally.

Just remember that the Brown Shirts in Germany expounded exactly the same beliefs as the Reported Tea Party does now and look where that took us all for a lovely ride. You want to associate with Loonies you get exactly what you deserve. :^0

Of course if you care to post links to the Tea Party decrying the comments that have been made in it's name I'm all ears but currently they don't exist. As things currently stand the Tea Party Group is nothing more than Media _Whores who will say anything to see their names in the Press. :p

Col

by ansugisalas

gutter-thinking aside, that's what the -bagger suffix in a political context of the USA triggers first and foremost, at least for me it did.

by charliespencer

What is OWS's message? 'I'm mad as Hell and I'm not gonna take it any more!' will only go so far. It's great for venting the spleen and whipping up a crowd, but by itself it won't result in action or change.

by jp85257

"free college education". Is that tuition only? Books included? How about labs? Free entrance into the Saturday football game? Free parking? A free laptop? Free food in the cafeteria?

I'm all for free college educations but only with the following condition: you have to qualify academically to get into college. Throw out all of the losers who are in college just to avoid having to go out in the real world and get a job. They are only distractions. Leave college for the best and brightest regardless of their financial situation.

by hal 9000

[i]"free college education". Is that tuition only?[/i] defiantly not

[i]Books included?[/i] depends on the books but then again those that are out of date before the author finishes writing them should be done away with.

[i]How about labs?[/i] Depends on the Course being done. After all someone studding Humanities isn't going to need much of a Lab to begin with where as those Studding Atomic Physics most defiantly will need these.

[i]Free entrance into the Saturday football game?[/i] What's this got to do with anything but none the less [b]Charge the Hell[/b] out of them particularly those participating. Grid Iron Players = Brain Damaged Drooling Idiots who are a long term drain on the economy. Ice Hockey Players fall into the same league. Rugby Players = Thugs, Rugby League Players = Thugs who are not good enough to be Rugby Thugs, Aussie Rules = Thugs who are not good enough to be Rugby League Thugs, Soccer = Bad Actors. But none the less all are a drain on society so do everything possible to discourage them at every step. ;)

So in light of that most defiantly charge the hell out of them they are not productive members of Society so why should Society encourage them to be a drain on that Society?

[i]Free parking?[/i] Not really necessary if Proper Public Transport is available.

[i]A free laptop?[/i] Again depends on the course. After all those who study Humanities are not quite in the same League as those studding for instance Nuclear Medicine.

However if the Education Authorities made their Own NB like those proposed in India that would cost between $25.00 and $50.00 each it's not much of a stretch to buy one is it? Dump the Free Enterprise Model where Business does everything possible to get as much money as possible out of each and every student while supplying them with Education Equipment that far exceeds the required use of the course.

[i]Free food in the cafeteria?[/i] Most defiantly for all Medical Students and Football Players. That way the Medical Students can have first hand experience of dangerous Food Practices and just maybe a few Brain Damaged/Thugs will be removed from the Gene Pool.

Personally I would probably go a lot further [b]Get Rid of the Useless Courses[/b] that the only possible job resulting from doing them is to teach that course to others. After all Wallmart doesn't need people with BA's to stick iPads on shelves does it?

Society Needs productive members not those who are a drain on it and those who do the [b]Easy[/b] useless courses fall into that Category as well as those who teach them. ;)

[i]you have to qualify academically to get into college.[/i] I have no problems with that provided you get rid of the useless easy courses. if you keep them then you should let anyone and their dog in.

[i]Throw out all of the losers who are in college just to avoid having to go out in the real world and get a job.[/i] Sports Players and particularly those on Sports Scholarships and Useless Courses like Business Management? Though if the Cafeteria Food poisons the Sports People/Humanities Students that may just prove very useful to the Medical Students and they would be another source of Free Fodder for the Medical Students studies. :^0

[i]Leave college for the best and brightest regardless of their financial situation. .[/i] I completely agree but you have to get rid of the Useless Courses first.

Col

by jp85257

The best and brightest would never enroll in those classes. They were only created to give the mental midgets enough credits to stay in school, push the liberal agenda, or give a tenured professor a sandbag job so they can keep collecting paychecks..

by ansugisalas

Yeah! Like, whoever needs to speak Chinese, eh? :p

On the other hand, I'm fine with it if English speaking countries abolish humanities education... I'd be able to charge more'n a medical doctor for my transgrokification services.

by jp85257

So, you rely on the MSM for your information? No wonder you're so misinformed. The only accurate reporting on the MSM is sports scores and they even get those wrong on occasion.

You hate politicians but want to give them even more control over your life? I guess that makes sense to a liberal.

Here's a news flash for you: those "free" handouts they keep promising you aren't really free. I know that's confusing for someone who relies so heavily on the MSM, but it really is the truth.

by jp85257

Just because someone here posts that Tea Partiers gave themselves that name doesn't make it true.

Liberals have been trying to discredit them since day one and haven't accomplished anything other than make themselves look foolish.

by hal 9000

Is if you are silly enough to listen to the Pollies you'll start to pity them very quickly and when that happens the ROT gone beyond the ability to remove stage.

The silly fools actually think what they do is important and that they actually do something constructive when they are actually just Impotent Fools who we tolerate because we can not stand the thought of them being able to mingle with the General Public.

It's better to have them locked up in their Parliament Houses thinking that they are Important and hence leave the real people in peace to attempt to live our lives without Interference. ;)

Col

by hal 9000

Just [i]"phreak"[/i] the US Presidents Official US of A Credit Card and go on a spending spree @ the tax payers expense.

After all the current and immediate previsions administration ran up debts far in excess of what either of them could ever pay back. Just think of the US as Greece in 2025. The process will be the same and the only difference is more money is involved. That way they will do far more damage. :^0

Perhaps then your [b]Lusted For Mansion[/b] will not be sufficient as you'll need Air Travel between your Mansion and where ever you want to go or you'll run the risk of being robbed and eaten by the Starving Rabble when you leave your Grounds. :^0

Of course using Air Transport leaves you in a position of being robbed and eaten by the people who you pay to transport you around so maybe it's better to just leave the country now and make your own somewhere, where money isn't and can never be involved. ;)

[i]Minion here is a leaf of Letus now carry me to my Automobile and get the Chaffer to drive me where I want to go. Tell him I'll give him a Scooby Snack for this effort. I'll also give the Fuel Makers the fresh equivalent of a Tin of Beans to make the required fuel today. Certainly adds new meaning to the word Gass doesn't it?[/i] :^0

See an economy without money and as an added advantage as you are using Food with a short shelf life there can be no hoarding to make people rich for doing nothing. Also you will not need to spool right either so everyone wins. :^0 :D :^0 :D

Col

by av .

I think we should collect all the politicians and send them to carousel instead.

by markp24

Hi all,

I think part of the issue (along with erverything said prior is that the politicians are not accountable for there actions. If a politician puts a policy in place, or allows fluff to go thru on some unrelated bill or what ever it may be, and it fails to work or makes things worse, this person is not held accountable in the least. They just keep pushing more stuff through (based ususally on what corp entity is passing the most cash under the table.)
I think we would see a big difference if thy were audited /policed by a "jury of citizens" or have some laws inplace to enforce what we need.

Just a thought

by hal 9000

That the Pollies are free to do completely Idiot things when they first get erected and then when they come around for reelection people have forgotten the idiot Things that they initially did.

Pollies know how to play the system and individually the do it very well to suit themselves. Of course that doesn't mean that they always do the best thing for their Party or Country but they always do the best thing for themselves.

With the Apathy that the members of the General Public have and the extremely short memories by the time an Individual Polly comes up for reelection most have forgotten what they originally did. What they did last week/month is all that most remember if anything at all. ;)

Col

by markp24

i see you point, but i feel like all we do is vote them in or out, and theres no repurcussions for doing a bad job.

by markp24

did you really mean "when they first get erected "

hmmmmm propably true with politicians...lol

by jp85257

What kind of repercussions would you recommend?

Please define "doing a bad job". Who's going to decide?

by markp24

depending on the "bad job" maybe a fine, or jail time, or even required to do community projects.
Bad job - defined as not doing what they promise to do.
You say you will do X Y and Z if your voted in, then once your voted in you do the complete opposite of X, Y and Z then thats a bad job.

(maybe im just to black and white with no shades of grey on my viewpoints)

by jp85257

So you're a Democrat and promise X,Y, and Z. The House, Senate, and Presidency are controlled by Republicans. They block every attempt for you to accomplish X,Y,and Z. Should you be fined for not doing what you promised?

Don't get me wrong, I think we should throw them all out. But trying to punish someone for things they may not have control of isn't a real good idea IMHO.

by charliespencer

There's a difference between doing a bad job and committing a crime. Would you like to pay a fine or go to jail if your employer decides you're doing a bad job? Your employer can fire you; we can fire elected officials.

The problem with basing a job performance assessment on campaign promises is two-fold. One is that the elected official often has to work with other elected officials who may have made completely contradictory promises to their constituents. The other is that each official has thousands or millions of 'bosses' who don't all agree on which promises are important.

by jamesrl

The flip side to elections is that because of the prevalence of partisanship and party politics, you have politicians who get elected and do a great job representing their consituents, but then they can lose their job because of a swing based on party. There are soem rare politicians who can buck the trend, but it would seem to me less often these days,

Don't like em? Vote them out!

by ansugisalas

Like this:
I give my one net vote for party X, with a +1 subvote for candidate Mr/Mz Not-yet-worthy-of-my-contempt, and a -1 subvote for candidate Mr/Mz Very-much-in-need-of-a-smiting.

So it's 1 vote for the party, with instructions to change the internal vote distribution of the party, giving to the favored candidate (if there is one) and taking from the unfavoured candidate (...which won't likely be hard to find).
That way voters could get a chance to slam the people who are otherwise untouchable, because they're too good at playing the internal politics game, have too many allies, etc.
Could be fun!

by charliespencer

It's 'straight party' voting that results in the situation JamesRL describes, when worthy local incumbents are voted out because of knee-jerk reactions against their party's national policies. Stick to voting for individuals.

by markp24

they still stay in term for X years, and if they get voted out, they just run again somewhere else or always seem to previal some where else (got to give credit for there ability to do that)

by hal 9000

But I've seen far too many people with a Humanities Degree selling junk Furniture in A Mart. That's the AU equivalent of Wall Mart in the states but more limited in what they sell. Not even a high end well paying job just minimum wages and no future.

Here they go to Uni run up a massive Hex Bill for their Degree and then don't have any job that they can do to make use of that degree.

That to me is a Waste of Education and a Pointless Exercise. ;)

But if you just want a Eduminacition to say that you have a [i]"Batular's"[/i] I suppose it's OK though to me there are far cheaper ways to Big Note Yourself.

OH and BTW don't you already charge more than most Doctors for your work? I certainly do. :p

Col

by ansugisalas

While I can charge what I want, I'd like someone to agree to pay my price as well :p
But yeah, I was enrolled in a masters programme which turned out to lead exactly nowhere, so I do know what you mean. Not riding that canoe no more ;)

by jp85257

We all know that the only way to learn a foreign language is to go to a four year university.

by ansugisalas

just like it takes a four year university study to learn to work computers.

It's all the same buddy. Some victims are just easier than others.

by jp85257

Was that Master Program in debating? From your posts I always thought you were a Master Debater. ;-)

by jamesrl

People who are in the ruling party "should" have access enough to information to be able to make informed and intelligent promises(not that they always do). Politicians who are not in the ruling party often make promises based on flawed premises or without vital information, because they don't have the same access to all information that the ruling party does.

So if someone makes a promise in good faith, and then once in power discovers a disasterous consequence, should they blindly go ahead any way?

And of course, situations change. The finances of the government changes, new facts come to light etc.

The whole idea of representative democracy is that you chose someone who makes decisions similar to what you would make if you were in their position. But you can't account for the unknowable factors.

Breaking a promise is not a crime. It is a factor to consider when looking at whether to vote for someone a second time.

I'd rather have someone who breaks a promise when it makes sense, than someone who blindly votes based on an election promise despite overwhelming evidence that it is a bad thing.

by markp24

Didnt think of it that way, very good point,
(I do agree by the way , about kicking everyone out and starting fresh, all the poiticians and parties, etc appear soo corrupt)

by ansugisalas

See, from your posts I always got the impression that you'd like to be a Master Byter, but for a hardware/software dysfunction.

by ansugisalas

there's enough damn dumbasses around to make sure the idjits get lots and lots of votes... and in many voting systems that means they can extend their vote surplus to fellow idjits. Only way to combat that is to deal with the distribution internal to the party.

by charliespencer

The lesser being that while many countries enjoy a Parliamentarian government, in the US there is no 'ruling party'. Our president is not selected by the majority party of either house of our Congress. It's common for one party to have a majority in both houses while the President is of another (the other) party.

The more important point regards the responsibility of those elected officials. Quoting from the ever-questionable Wikipedia:

"The representatives form an independent ruling body (for an election period) charged with the responsibility of acting in the people's interest, but not as their proxy representatives nor necessarily always according to their wishes, but with enough authority to exercise swift and resolute initiative in the face of changing circumstances. It is often contrasted with direct democracy, where representatives are absent or are limited in power as proxy representatives."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy

I vote for someone to make the best decision. If, as you note, the party in power has better access to the relevant information, then my elected representatives have better access than I do. I want them to make the best possible decisions based on that access, not based on what we uninformed votes may prefer.

by ansugisalas

it's for the rest of us.
But you're right: The Biggs Hoson won't allow any useful change to happen in Poll'O'Ticks - That would violate the laws of quantumdynamics.

by delbertpgh

There's been a group of demonstrators who set up tents in a small park owned by my bank, and if I look down 42 floors I can see them. The camp has been there for 10 days now, and it looks like they have grown by 5 or 10 people per day. The park is less than two acres, and they seem to have almost 100 tents down there, maybe 200 people you could count as residents. There's not room for many more.

They don't block the sidewalks or harass passers by. They have a number of signs (we are the 99%, capitalism destroys, don't trust your banker) that sit around propped up against tents or are tied to the security fence the bank put up around the fountain. They don't stand around shouting or trying to draw attention, beyond the fact of just being there. Most of the inhabitants disappear during the day, when they go off to class or jobs, and return about the time I go home. I suspect they are around in the biggest force during the evening, but I have no idea what they do then, when I'm gone; probably give speeches to each other, or lead cheers, or form a drum circle. It's hard to call them demonstrators; it's more like occupiers, really. They just occupy the place, and that's their whole act.

Four potable toilets were set up on the sidewalk next to the subway, probably courtesy of the bank, which also laid down straw in the park to protect the sod. The bank is as low-key and low-temperature as the demonstrators. They've put on extra security staff, unarmed people who sit around in blue blazers with walkie-talkie radios, waiting in case something should happen, in which case they would politely tell the offenders they were trespassing and radio the news in to the main security desk. The occupiers' adventure is in camping out in the yard; the security staffers' adventure is in getting paid overtime in the months before Christmas. There's no friction. The bank made $650 million last quarter, so I don't think it's sweating the costs.

I've walked through and talked with people several times. Like the Tea Party, it's not a group with a coherent philosophy. They sense something very wrong has happened and is still happening, they're angry and scared, and they have lots of crazy or sensible explanations for it. Like the Tea Party, nobody seems to have an accurate idea of what banks do or what capitalism actually is; everybody has four or five equally important and opposed ideas banging around in his head, so even talking to one person you don't get much of a consistent idea of what's bothering them. Some are pretty moderate, and some are pretty radical, and some are wacky nature children who think they know something vital about economics. Very like the tea party, actually.

by charliespencer

Like any other business, banks are there to make profits for their shareholders. I don't see why it shouldn't be any less acceptable for them to make a legal profit than any other business model. Those practicing questionable tactics need to be smacked around, but that doesn't mean an entire category of business is inherently evil.