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Re-Using a Windows/Office Product Key

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by ohm.paul 1 view

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I have an old Dell (dimension 4700) that I bought years ago with XP Pro pre-installed. Now that the Dimension has died, I bought a new computer without an OS. Is there anything saying that I cannot use the product key from the Dimension's XP Pro install (which is labeled on a sticker on the tower) on my new computer?

It seems like if I should have the right to use a product key in this way because I paid for the license in the first place, but I am not sure. I'm sure that you have the right to do so if you purchase the Windows XP software separately, but can you do the same thing if the software or OS is pre-installed on the computer?

Can anyone tell me for sure?

Thanks,
Paul

43 replies

by ic-it

The Dell had an OEM XP license and was only valid for that one system.
Office is normally a seperate purchase and usually a retail license, it could be transferred.

by taylorjes

I had a similar situation about 3 yrs ago,
and I was able to contact both Dell and
Microsoft. Microsoft said that they could not
authorize the re-use, but when I called Dell
they gave me a new Auth Key for a significant discount because I was a continuing customer.
You could try that. I think I paid about 1/3
of Dell's asking price, probably close to the
OEM price. The best part is you can use the
old disk.

by ohm.paul

That just seems unfair. According to that FAQ, if any software is pre-installed, it lives and dies with the PC. Although, this doesn't really tell whether the key would work or not on my new PC, it mightjust be saying that MS won't give full support, I still wonder if it would pass the genuine windows test. As for Office, that just seems like complete robbery. If you pay Dell $150 to put Office on your computer instead of buying MS Office for $150, then you lose it when your computer dies...seems unfair to me. Again, though, I wonder if the key would actually not work, or is it just MS denying full support of the product...

by jdclyde

of "I hate unethical MS business practices"

It is a big club, and getting bigger all the time.

by shasca

I'm with you on that. To me it is like saying if I total my car I can't take the engine out and put it in some thing else of my choice

by cmiller5400

Welcome to the club. They discount the OEM software by tying it to the PC hardware. If you want to buy cheap you have to realize that it doesn't transfer. Pay retail and you get to transfer it. M$ is entitled to a profit too.

I buy OEM from http://www.newegg.com They have decent prices and I have been using them for years and I have had only one issue where the carrier lost the package and I had to wait for an entire month before they shipped a replacement out; but that was only because it took the carrier a month to complete their investigation.

by thumbsup2

When you purchase a system with the OS pre-installed by the manufacturer, you are only getting a watered down version of the OS and paying a very small amount for the OS as compared to what you would have paid had you purchased a full OEM or even a retail version of the same. The type of license that is purchased at the time you buy the machine is what determines whether you can transfer that license to other hardware. The fact that you can not use it elsewhere is due to an agreement between MS and the manufacturer.... the manufacturer purchases the licensing for much less from MS in exchange for a guarantee that they will not allow you to install it on another PC. This is a mutually beneficial agreement.

As a customer, had you demanded the upgraded licensing when you purchased the computer and PAID for it, you would have had more rights when it comes to using it elsewhere. In the software licensing world, you only get what you pay for. In this case, you paid for the rights to use the OS on one PC and ONLY that PC.

.

by oh smeg

When you purchase a License from M$ all you are effectively buying is the right to use a product not the actual product. In the case of OEM Product you are only buying the right to use it on the hardware it was supplied with or first installed upon.

So in the case of Office and Paying Dell $150 to install Office and you are paying M$ $150 to buy a OEM Version of Office you are still buying OEM Product if you where to pay M$ $750 to buy a Retail Version of Office then it is perfectly legitimate to move it to different hardware provided you remove it from the first computer or the number of Licenses you actually originally purchased. It's all to do with the amount of money you pay initially as M$ has different products available OEM which is cheap and can come preinstalled, Retail which is more expensive and you buy after the fact or Volume License which you buy the right to use on your preferred hardware. If you buy OEM you can not expect the same deal as Volume License which costs more. It's just the same as buying a new car like a Little Town Car and then complaining that it doesn't do the same job as a different car that costs 10 times as much.

You get what you pay for.

If you had of bothered to read the License when you first got your Computer you will clearly have seen that this software is only licensed to use on this hardware but as no one bothers to actually read these they just accept them they don't realize what they are agreeing to and it can be argued that they have Voided their rights to use this software by failing to read the agreement that they agree to.

Now will the Product Keys work on different hardware most likely will and provided you use the same version of Windows and Office they may even pass WGA. But that doesn't mean that they will or that this product which has been previously registered on the M$ Servers will not have sent in Registration Keys keyed to the Hardware that it was first installed on and that when you attempt to re register with different hardware that M$ will not pay you a visit along with the Relevant Authorities and ask the Authorities to Seize the Hardware for evidence of a Crime against their Copyright occurring.

When you buy a M$ License you are not buying the product just the right to use it you don't actually own the software ever you are just buying the right to use it and in the case of OEM Software that is buying the right to use it for as long as the hardware works. So ideally if the hardware was to last 200 years you could legitimately use the software for 200 years without needing to replace it ever. Unlike when you buy property which you actually Own Outright in the case of Software you are not paying for anything but the right to use it for as long as the Supplier deems it proper that you use their product. If for argument sake you where to start making thousands of copies of the Install Media the Supplier could quite rightly claim that you have exceeded the license and take it off you in a day or leave it in place for 200 years.

Col

by ohm.paul

Like, just because Toyota put my car together, using a volume engine that they use for all of their cars, I am not allowed to use the engine in a different car because it is assigned to that one...lame. I am probably going to try it and see if it doesn't get past the genuine windows test...I'll try the same with office.

by shasca

It will probably install, and validate fine.
It is just that we as IT Professionals cannot tell you it's "OK" to do it.

by cmiller5400

For the Windows install: If the key is a Dell key, it will not work unless you have a Dell CD. And Dell CD's are usually tied to the hardware and don't include the drivers for other machines.

Good luck making this work; and if you do, don't be surprised if the BSA doesn't show up on your door step demanding an audit. I wouldn't cheap out on a $140 piece of software that if caught, would could cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines and legal fees. JMHO

by oh smeg

The Car and all it's component parts which are your's to do with as you please.

In the case of Software you are not buying the product just the right to use that product. If you actually owned the product there would be nothing stopping you from reverse engineering it and making your own modified version or Windows.

But as you didn't buy a Physical item only the right to use a piece of code you do not have any rights. In reality if a computer was to die in an hour of purchasing it the repairer should include new software with the replacement computer along with another License you have to agree to before you can use the computer or the software that is installed on it.

If Toyota was to try to push through the idea that you [b]Can Not[/b] modify the car in any way they would be out of luck without a leg to stand on as they [b]Do Not[/b] own anything once they sell you the car. But here M$ doesn't sell you anything but the right to use something for as long as the hardware functions. If you really do not like this [b]Do Not[/b] accept the agreement and then find something else to use on your new computer that is your right. Just as it is M$'s right to stipulate what can and can not be done with their property.

Where you are mistaken here is in believing that you actually have bought the software in the form of Windows and Office you have not bought anything along those lines and the sooner you come to accept this the happier you'll be.

For a comparison if you had of Leased the car from Toyota for far less than it costs to buy would you be surprised if they came and took it one day after the lease expires or if you stop paying the lease.

In the case of Software you are effectively only Leasing the Product and you promise not to change it in any way outside of the recommended changes from the maker. This entitles you to a One Time Payment for the Lease and depending on the type of lease you chose to pay for you get different rights on how you can use this software. The only thing you actually own in relation to the Software is the Physical Media that the software is on but the Data on the Media which isn't real and can be handled is only there to allow you the ability to reinstall it if the Hardware or Software breaks at some point in time.

Col

by larryd4

Yes as all the posts say, the OS license that came with your Dell belongs to the Dell you purchased and cannot be transferred.

But here is the crazy part, that fully fledged license on the side of the PC was never activated.

In fact you could use it with a generic MS-Windows install on a non Dell PC if you have an installation CD for XP Pro that corrisponds with the release of the PC.

In other words if the license on the side was a license from the Windows XP release prior to Service Pack 1, then you need a generic XP Pro installation CD created before SP 1.

Dell builds in licensing informaiton in the BIOS of their PCs. Meaning if you put in the Dell OS recovery CD it uses the Dell OEM licenese to reinstal, just like it happened in the Factory. It does not use the License Key on the sticker on the outside of the box.

I know a few people that have used them and so far they haven't had a problem. But as the admin and MSDN developer I never have had those issues of buying a licenses.

And now you ask why do I konw this? Well thats all we have here and I couldn't figure out how the OS install CD's never needed to ask me what the Key was.

by charliespencer

If the hard drive still works, you could pay to have the contents transferred and the drivers updated. Any decent service shop should be able to do this if you agree to have the original hard drive destroyed.

by Former member

If you buy a car, you wear it out, do you think the manufacturer owes you a free one to put that engine in? or one at a discount. the oe install was part of the computer purchase price, no different than the paint on the chassis. Microsoft has given me no hassle about moving my retail xp any time i needed to install it in another build. i got it cheap shopping the net. its better too, all the features are there and they work!

by oh smeg

As such if M$ catches you they can quite rightly claim you are Pirating their Software as you had the Right to use the License of the Original Hardware for the Life of that Hardware. The License doesn't extend to new hardware that you buy latter.

Though of you chose to Upgrade your Hardware a bit at a time over several Years you'll probably be OK.

If you had either Volume License or Retail Software it is acceptable to change over Hardware as this has a different License but OEM which is considerably Cheaper doesn't have this option.

Also what do you plan to use to install the OS with. The Dell Media is only a Recovery Disc with just the Drivers for the Hardware that it was supplied with and generally speaking [b]Can Not[/b] be used successfully on different hardware. It just [b]Will Not[/b] install on different Hardware.

Col

by kenrwoodson

You're right. System Recov. only.
I've had the same situation with a HP machine
that had the wanna be operating system called Windows ME a while back.

But with the 1st post's situation, would the EULA be broken if that software was installed on a virtual machine
(mainly VMWare machines) setting within the actual physical machines HDD?

Technically, it's installed on the same hardware, but if his physical hardware fails again, (excluding HDD in this situation) and the OS was installed on the VM, then he could slave the HDD to another physical machine to extract the VM with the OS on it.
(Knowing MS, it probably does break the EULA.)

by .martin.

This problem always reminds me of an old story about a lady with a robot servant...

your not allowed to move an OEM license from one computer to another, yet if you were to, over time, replace every part of the computer (one at a time) would it not still be the same computer??? and if you then took all the parts from the original computer and put it back together would you then be able to argue that that is the original computer that you bought and therefore be able to install windows on that computer as well???

so in fact both those computers could be considered the one computer, as one is made of the original hardware, and the other started off as the original and was upgraded over time, something which many of us do.

by oh smeg

Starting off you Bought the Rights to use Windows and Office presumably and this right is exactly the same as buying a Seat at a Football Match. It entitles you to use that seat for the duration of the game but it doesn't entitle you to return whenever you like and use the seat. To do that you need to buy a season Ticket and even that only covers you for a year to use that seat when you feel like using it.

M$ Licensing is exactly the same you buy a Right not a product and as such you have to live with the right you have accepted to buy. If you don't like it you have the option of upgrading that right to a different form of right or not to accept the right to use the M$ Product and use something different.

If you where to buy a hours of a Hookers time there is no way known you would believe you have the right to return and use the Hooker whenever you feel like without paying again is there?

It's exactly the same as buying a Movie Ticket you occupy the most expensive real estate on the face of the Planet while you are in that seat but the moment you leave after the movie ends you have no expectations or returning and reusing that seat again without paying for it in some form be that another ticket or Season Pass or if you are very set on that 1 particular Seat you can work out a deal with the Cinema Owners for a Life Time Pass to use that seat but both the Season & Life Time Pass cost considerably more than a 1 use only ticket. Even then you know you have no right to unbolt that seat and take it elsewhere just because you paid for it for a few hours.

Like the Football Game, Movie Theater or Hooker you are buying a Service which gives you no rights or implied expectation to reuse that item again without needing to pay for it or do as you please with the seat.

In all of the above cases you buy the rights to use something in it's location with the amenities provided there but it is never implied that you have a right to expect anything more from the Football Stadium, The Movie Theater or Hooker.

M$ is in the same type of business but in their case they are selling the Right to use Software on a computer. If you want to use that software on more than 1 computer you need to buy a different product that costs you more money. Just the same as you need to buy another Movie or Football Game Ticket if you develop a undieing relationship with the seat you happen to occupy while watching the Movie, Football Game.

Does that explanation make more sense to you?

Col

by kenrwoodson

It does seem unfair from a consumer's perspective.

Though, possibly from a vendor's perspective:
"If a customer has a product of ours that lasts forever, then that might be the last time that customer might see us."

Not to make an apocalyptic look at your situation, but fairness is established on what side of the fence the software's on.
Kinda stinks.

Eventually, XP will dwindle into the sea of forgetfulness like older MS OSs; MS seems not to support any of their 9x families, sort of a cycle of dependency.

Make sure the new machine lasts as long as it can with the new product key reg. from the OEM and stay faithful to XP, since it seems Vista has some undesirable quarks.

By the way, ever heard of virtual machines?
Just somethin' to keep in mind...

by vhrocker

Working in IT and listening to many brainwashing sessions from a MS rep, I've learned a lot about MS licensing.

In your case, you have an OEM license that is tied to one machine, and the first machine that it was installed on. It can not be transferred to another system, even if the old is not being used, because it is an OEM copy.

However, there is ONE exception, and that is if the motherboard is fried.... I think you are safe. I suppose you can say you replaced the motherboard, and while you were at it, upgraded some other components...

If Office is also, OEM, I'd safely assume this also applies. If it is a retail copy, you should have no worries.

As far as the cd's go, the license key will work with a same generation OEM copy. Just try and see if it works. There are so many 'generations' as the key algorithms are hard coded for a certain number of keys. When they need more available keys, they make a new cd batch.

I hope that helps.

by vhrocker

##Sorry, this is a repost because I replied in the wrong spot last time##

Working in IT and listening to many brainwashing sessions from a MS rep, I've learned a lot about MS licensing.

In your case, you have an OEM license that is tied to one machine, and the first machine that it was installed on. It can not be transferred to another system, even if the old is not being used, because it is an OEM copy.

However, there is ONE exception, and that is if the motherboard is fried.... I think you are safe. I suppose you can say you replaced the motherboard, and while you were at it, upgraded some other components...

If Office is also, OEM, I'd safely assume this also applies. If it is a retail copy, you should have no worries.

As far as the cd's go, the license key will work with a same generation OEM copy. Just try and see if it works. There are so many 'generations' as the key algorithms are hard coded for a certain number of keys. When they need more available keys, they make a new cd batch.

I hope that helps.

by vhrocker

"If the motherboard is replaced because of a defect, the user does not need to acquire a new operating system license for the computer."

Taken from:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/824125

However, it does state that the motherboard should be the same make and model...

It is your decision what you actually do.

by oh smeg

Words to the effect that you can replace the M?Board, CPU & RAM and use the existing Product Key provided there is not a Massive increase in CPU Power.

Directly from the Head of M$ Legal AU I have this expiation You can reuse the Product Key for Windows to repair a computer [b]But Not[/b] upgrade it but only if the replacement CPU is within 2 Generations of the Old CPU otherwise it is a Upgrade and new OEM Product should be supplied.

While it is possible to argue the difference between a Repair & a Upgrade this is a matter for the courts and as M$ has a big Legal Team sitting around picking their noses waiting for something to do while the End User in this case will have to pay to defend the Action brought by M$ with a Starting Fine of $250.000.00 AU + Costs the sensible people don?t do this to begin with and certainly do not fight the case as even if they where to win they would be out of pocket for considerably more than the cost of the OEM Product involved. God even the Pirates settle out of Court and pay the fine imposed by M$ and allow their Personal & Business names to be listed in M$ Enforcement Alerts. To settle this before it reaches the Courts. But first they have to sit in with their Legal Representatives for over a year listening to the Worst Possible Scenario before M$ will Settle.

The bottom line as this is not even a upgrade but a new replacement computer it is defiantly against the intent of the M$ EULA which this person agreed to when they first activated their original Dell Computer.

Anyway the entire point here is Moot as the original System was a Dell and these come with a Recovery Disc which Can Not be used to load different Hardware so this person has no way of installing Windows to begin with. If they had M$ Supplied OEM there may be a difference but as they do not there is no issue here at all.

But the entire point here is [b]Is it worth the Risks Involved to save a few cents when there is the possibility of Hundreds of Thousands of $ in Fines for Illegal Actions?[/b]

While M$ does have destructions on how to repair a existing install when a New M?Board is fitted it has to be viewed from within M$?s definition of a Repair and the difference between a Repair & Upgrade.

Col

by jdclyde

Hardly sounds like an ethical way to live your life, or run a business.

by tetzler

I work for a school district and deal with copyright laws quite often. When you buy a machine whether desktop or laptop the OS OEM is designated for the life of that sole machine. Once the machine dies so does the OS OEM license die with that machine. You cannot transfer the OS OEM from machine to machine. Also if you purchase a machine that the hard-drive has been wiped clean you can only rebuild the machine to the OS that is specified on the OEM certificate.

by cmiller5400

[i]Also if you purchase a machine that the hard-drive has been wiped clean you can only rebuild the machine to the OS that is specified on the OEM certificate.[/i]

Unless you buy a new license...

by vhrocker

As I stated,
"It does state that the motherboard should be the same make and model..."

and...

"It is your decision what you actually do."

Meaning, yes, it's possible, yes it will work, but in your case (or the post starter's case), the legality is not all there.

However, in my belief, being the law-abiding person that I am, and always trying to do the right thing, putting more stress on doing the right thing; I would go ahead and do it. I am all against one imposing more harm or cost on someone that is not necessary.

The computer is not being resold as new with an old license with an intention of making money, or robbing the consumer. The computer is still being used by original owner, being forced by failure to buy new parts.

I also believe (also from experience) that the corporate world ($$$$) is not equal to the consumer world($).

Enough said.

(ALSO, the Dell "Recovery Discs" are actually modified OEM discs. They can, and I have used them (in cases where I don't have standard XP Home discs) to install on another machine with other than Dell hardware. I usually just remove the Dell files and registry entries afterwards.)

by cmiller5400

M$ probably doesn't care if you are a business user or a home user. You violate the contract, you are subject to the penalties.

The EULA clearly states what you can do. No if's and's or but's. It's all there in black and white. If you don't understand it, contact your local M$ rep and ask them. Better to receive the information from the horses mouth than the horses a$$ ;\

I will say that I may be slightly biased because I do some software development.

by oh smeg

Also as the OEM Product is Tied to the [b]Original Hardware[/b] and if the Original Owner sold the Original Hardware they have to supply the Install Media. Try proving in a Court of Law that a new computer is actually a replacement of a now dead unit and see just how far you actually get.

Anyway here is M$ Intention

[i]END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE .
1. IMPORTANT: READ CAREFULLY - These Microsoft Corporation ("Microsoft") operating system components, including any "online" or electronic documentation ("OS Components") are subject to the terms and conditions of the agreement under which you have licensed the applicable Microsoft operating system product described below (each an "End User License Agreement" or "EULA") and the terms and conditions of this Supplemental EULA. BY INSTALLING, COPYING OR OTHERWISE USING THE OS COMPONENTS, YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THE APPLICABLE OPERATING SYSTEM PRODUCT EULA AND THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, DO NOT INSTALL, COPY OR USE THE OS COMPONENTS. NOTE: IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A VALIDLY LICENSED COPY OF ANY VERSION OR EDITION OF MICROSOFT WINDOWS 98, WINDOWS MILLENNIUM, WINDOWS 2000, WINDOWS XP OPERATING SYSTEM OR ANY MICROSOFT OPERATING SYSTEM THAT IS A SUCCESSOR TO ANY OF THOSE OPERATING SYSTEMS (each an "OS Product"), YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO INSTALL, COPY OR OTHERWISE USE THE OS COMPONENTS AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS UNDER THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA.
Capitalized terms used in this Supplemental EULA and not otherwise defined herein shall have the meanings assigned to them in the applicable OS Product EULA.
General. The OS Components are provided to you by Microsoft to update, supplement, or replace existing functionality of the applicable OS Product. Microsoft grants you a license to use the OS Components under the terms and conditions of the EULA for the applicable OS Product (which are hereby incorporated by reference except as set forth below), the terms and conditions set forth in this Supplemental EULA, and the terms and conditions of any additional end user license agreement that may accompany the individual OS Components (each an "Individual EULA"), provided that you comply with all such terms and conditions. To the extent that there is a conflict among any of these terms and conditions applicable to the OS Components, the following hierarchy shall apply: 1) the terms and conditions of the Individual EULA; 2) the terms and conditions in this Supplemental EULA; and 3) the terms and conditions of the applicable OS Product EULA.
Additional Rights and Limitations.
* You may only install and use one copy of the OS Components. If you have multiple validly licensed copies of the applicable OS Product, you need to reconnect to this site and download an additional copy of the OS Components from each computer on which you are running the applicable OS Product.
* You may also reproduce one additional copy of the OS Components solely for archival purposes or reinstallation of the OS Components on the same computer as the OS Components were previously installed. Microsoft retains all right, title and interest in and to the OS Components. All rights not expressly granted are reserved by Microsoft.
* The OS Components may contain technology that enables applications to be shared between two or more computers, even if an application is installed on only one of the computers. You may use this technology with all Microsoft application products for mufti-party conferences. For non-Microsoft applications, you should consult the accompanying license agreement or contact the licensor to determine whether application sharing is permitted by the licensor.IF THE APPLICABLE OS PRODUCT WAS LICENSED TO YOU BY MICROSOFT OR ANY OF ITS WHOLLY OWNED SUBSIDIARIES, THE LIMITED WARRANTY (IF ANY) INCLUDED IN THE APPLICABLE OS PRODUCT EULA APPLIES TO THE OS COMPONENTS PROVIDED THE OS COMPONENTS HAVE BEEN LICENSED BY YOU WITHIN THE TERM OF THE LIMITED WARRANTY IN THE APPLICABLE OS PRODUCT EULA. HOWEVER, THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA DOES NOT EXTEND THE TIME PERIOD FOR WHICH THE LIMITED WARRANTY IS PROVIDED.
IF THE APPLICABLE OS PRODUCT WAS LICENSED TO YOU BY AN ENTITY OTHER THAN MICROSOFT OR ANY OF ITS WHOLLY OWNED SUBSIDIARIES, MICROSOFT DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES WITH RESPECT TO THE OS COMPONENTS AS FOLLOWS:
DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, MICROSOFT AND ITS SUPPLIERS PROVIDE TO YOU THE OS COMPONENTS, AND ANY (IF ANY) SUPPORT SERVICES RELATED TO THE OS COMPONENTS ("SUPPORT SERVICES") AS IS AND WITH ALL FAULTS; AND MICROSOFT AND ITS SUPPLIERS HEREBY DISCLAIM WITH RESPECT TO THE OS COMPONENTS AND SUPPORT SERVICES ALL WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS, WHETHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ANY (IF ANY) WARRANTIES, DUTIES OR CONDITIONS OF OR RELATED TO: MERCHANTABLE, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, LACK OF VIRUSES, ACCURACY OR COMPLETENESS OF RESPONSES, RESULTS, WORKMANLIKE EFFORT AND LACK OF NEGLIGENCE. ALSO THERE IS NO WARRANTY, DUTY OR CONDITION OF TITLE, QUIET ENJOYMENT, QUIET POSSESSION, CORRESPONDENCE TO DESCRIPTION OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. THE ENTIRE RISK ARISING OUT OF USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THE OS COMPONENTS AND ANY SUPPORT SERVICES REMAINS WITH YOU.
EXCLUSION OF INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL AND CERTAIN OTHER DAMAGES. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL MICROSOFT OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, INDIRECT, PUNITIVE OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR: LOSS OF PROFITS, LOSS OF CONFIDENTIAL OR OTHER INFORMATION, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, PERSONAL INJURY, LOSS OF PRIVACY, FAILURE TO MEET ANY DUTY (INCLUDING OF GOOD FAITH OR OF REASONABLE CARE), NEGLIGENCE, AND ANY OTHER PECUNIARY OR OTHER LOSS WHATSOEVER) ARISING OUT OF OR IN ANY WAY RELATED TO THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE THE OS COMPONENTS OR THE SUPPORT SERVICES, OR THE PROVISION OF OR FAILURE TO PROVIDE SUPPORT SERVICES, OR OTHERWISE UNDER OR IN CONNECTION WITH ANY PROVISION OF THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA, EVEN IF MICROSOFT OR ANY SUPPLIER HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY AND REMEDIES. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY DAMAGES THAT YOU MIGHT INCUR FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, ALL DAMAGES REFERENCED ABOVE AND ALL DIRECT OR GENERAL DAMAGES), THE ENTIRE LIABILITY OF MICROSOFT AND ANY OF ITS SUPPLIERS UNDER ANY PROVISION OF THIS SUPPLEMENTAL EULA AND YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ALL OF THE FOREGOING SHALL BE LIMITED TO ACTUAL DAMAGES INCURRED BY YOU BASED ON REASONABLE RELIANCE UP TO THE GREATER OF THE AMOUNT ACTUALLY PAID BY YOU FOR THE OS COMPONENTS OR U.S.$5.00. THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS, EXCLUSIONS AND DISCLAIMERS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE.[/i]

Col

by vhrocker

Yes, it's black and white...
First, I DID overlook the fact that he has a WHOLE new computer, case and all. I would not recommend or do this in that case.

Second, I would never recommend a corp that has an IT budget to do this EVER! Regular people sometimes can barely afford to keep up with technology. So, for these folks, I always try to save money on or atleast close to legal boundaries.

Three, like I was implying, if you aren't selling systems like this, and it's your own system that you can support yourself [meaning you don't need the OEM (i.e. Dell, HP, etc.) required support for the whole OEM computer package], who will really care if you use your license again. Granted you are not using it on multiple machines and your hardware did actually die.

Microsoft is busy spending time and money fighting the REAL pirates that are pumping out CD media and fake license tags.

Come on...

by jdclyde

If you put a new MB and all new components in that case, does it still count as the same PC?

Is there anything about that in the licensing agreements?

by thumbsup2

As far as the law is concerned, I can't advise anybody. I'm not a Lawyer. All I know is what works and what doesn't.

If you do an upgrade slowly, replacing once piece at a time, it will get past activation. Of course, we all know that sometimes putting a newer CPU in requires a different MB. :(

If you change more than one component at a time, and especially if the components are all 'different', it becomes a new computer. The case they are sitting in makes no difference. The components could all be sitting loose on the counter as far as the OS is concerned. It's the MB and CPU combination that 'make' the computer.

In fact, just a few days ago I had to reactivate an XP machine after I had RMA'd the MB and CPU both and received IDENTICAL, but unique, ones back as replacements. Even though the MB and CPU were identical as far as make/model to the ones I had removed, the OS saw it all as new because of the unique S/N's built into the components. I didn't have this machine hooked to the internet yet, so I went through phone activation. I questioned the person on the phone who told me outright that had I replaced just one component at a time and gotten up and running that way first, replacement of the 2nd component later wouldn't have required reactivation. Unfortunately, the old MB was dead and the old CPU was questionable, so I had shipped them both off. I didn't have the old CPU in my hands any longer to boot up with and test it, or I would have done it that way to avoid reactivation. Oh well. It was just a phone call. ;)

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by jdclyde

It is just, at what point, would they refuse to reactivate?

I once installed a wireless nic. It was the only hardware change I had made to the system. It made me re-activate.

And regardless of the increment, I wonder at what point it is considered a different computer?

I would bet there isn't anything in writing about it.

by thumbsup2

I know of several individuals who have had the Sheriff show up at their doorstep. And, their machines were all 'refurbed' or had the OS reinstalled by someone just like you who was trying to be helpful and save them some money.

If you think MS won't come after an individual, think again. They're NOT too busy and they DO eventually find Pirates no matter if they're an individual doing work for other people in their own home or a group who is mass producing.

And, just so you know, the fines levied against unsuspecting individuals using the 'close to legal' copies of Windows, like the people you have so been so kind to 'help', will extend to the person who did the work on the computer too. The unsuspecting individuals can also attempt to recoup their fines through a Civil Suit against the person who 'did them a favor'.

When it comes to the law, there is no such thing as 'close to legal'.

In my book, you're no less of a Pirate than those who are mass producing.

.

by oh smeg

I once added 6 SCSI HDD's to a computer and had to reactivate. As the On Line Activation failed I was Instructed to contact M$ by Phone to arrange Activation. Of course Windows only worked as fas as allowing the Activation and that was it. Didn't mater that it was as happy as larry before I added the HDD's once I had them added there was no way back to a working system. It was Dead to all intents and purposed till it was reactivated or reloaded.

At 3.00 AM it's not the best time to be having to ring MS for an activation code well it actually is but right then I didn't need the hassle particularly when at first the person on the Phone was very less than helpful and was saying that I had either a Pirate copy of Windows or I was attempting to Bulk Load Windows. I had to go all through the entire life history of this system and when I had to correct him that this wasn't a Domestic System but a commercial Server Application it was at that point when things changed and he accepted the Activation Code. Not sure what would have happened if it was a XP install instead of a server install and to be perfectly honest I don't really want to know either.

What it did teach me was Never use OEM product or any M$ Product except Volume License. It makes life so much easier. :D

On that occasion I did have to identify myself as who I was as a M$ Partner and it really wasn't much fun to be considered as a Pirate till I could clear myself.

Col

by vhrocker

TWICE I have replaced a motherboard in a computer that was not the OEM specific board that came with the machine. If we bought the same board it would have taken more than a single day to come as I get next day delivery and it would have cost 5 times as much. Now the license agreement says it has to be the same, but that is neither cost effective or acceptable. If you look at the machine, no one would know that it is different.

Also, since the system was more than 1 year old, the "free" OEM support was gone anyway.

I can't wait to bring this up in the next MS event I go to...

by oh smeg

Replacing a M'Board in a computer is a Repair not a Upgrade.

Replacing the CPU, RAM, M'Board can be either a repair or a Upgrade.

Replacing the entire computer [b]Can Not[/b] be considered as a Repair by any stretch of the imagination.

However if you are comfortable with performing Acts of Piracy against M$ then by all means keep doing it. After all when the End User goes to M$ for something and they will tell what has happened it will be you that M$ comes to have a little talk to about donating massive amounts of money toward someones retirement fund.

Doesn't really affect me one way or the other as the scumbag Pirates always end up getting their Come Upins and I get to read the Enforcement Alerts and find out who they are.

Col

by thumbsup2

... makes absolutely no difference what-so-ever.

The license agreement (EULA) says nothing about 'you can't do this [b]unless it's inconvenient to do so[/b]'. The language clearly states otherwise.

No matter how you look at it, you're still committing an act of Piracy and placing your customers in jeopardy. Too bad we can't all stand outside your door with a sign warning them of the hazards of doing business with you.

But, as someone above this post iterated, you'll get yours in the end and we'll be there to laugh when you do. :D

by vhrocker

Right.... All I did was replace a defective motherboard.

I already said that a new computer does not qualify. Also, the OEM license costs less because the support is coming from the OEM, not MS. Hence the section in license about hardware. If you add hardware that the OEM did not sell you, why should they have to support it? It makes all the sense in the world doesn't it?

1. You're an idiot.
2. You really should read all previous posts before you re-post.

by vhrocker

This is an even broader translation right from MS. Until the other day when I found the first 'limitation' of replacing a defective board with the same model, this was the "law" for me.

http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/e/3/4e3eace0-4c6d-4123-9d0c-c80436181742/OSLicQA.doc

"Generally, you may upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on your computer and maintain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software, with the exception of an upgrade or replacement of the motherboard. An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a "new personal computer." Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from one computer to another. Therefore, if the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect then a new computer has been created, the original license expires, and a new full operating system license (not upgrade) is required. This is true even if the computer is covered under Software Assurance or other Volume License programs.

12. If I upgrade some of my PC components, do I have to purchase a new operating system?
ANSWER. The answer depends on the components that are upgraded or changed in the PC. The operating system licenses must remain with the device that retains the motherboard, chipsets, and chassis that include the serial number of the device. The operating system may be installed on a new/replacement hard drive as long as the operating system is first removed from the old hard drive."

This is my last post in this thread.

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