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The Evolution Lie

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The following was a discussion originally started by TR member, ProtiusX; it was posted to the TR discussion threads in January 2004; it generated well over one thousand replies, maybe even pushing two thousand; it generated spirited discussion for months, remaining at the top of the active discussion list for probably half a year; and I offer a reprint (below) without permission, and either with or without provocation.

To see a snapshot of said discussion (and TR in the [i]good 'ol days[/i]):

http://web.archive.org/web/20050309214528/https://www.techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=8&threadID=165453&start=0

Disclaimer: Although there were over one thousand replies in the original discussion, I did not participate in it. Likewise, I express no opinion on the subject matter, one way or the other.

Without further ado, [b][i]The Evolution Lie[/b][/i] by TR member, ProtiusX:

[i]In other posts the subject of Creation versus Evolution has come up time and time again. I would like to detail here some scientific facts about the Theory of Evolution and why it should not be taught as fact in our schools. Additionally I will show that Evolution is the basis for the humanist movement which is in of itself a bonifide religion that has been inserted into our schools and perpetrated upon our society so that much like the alleged constitutional reference to the separation of church and state the people of this land believe it.

Now Evolution, or more accurately, Macroevolution is the process where one unique living organism which is defined by it’s DNA sequence mutates due to stressors in the environment thereby evolving into a new species. This has NEVER been reproduced in any scientific manor. Furthermore, the idea when scrutinized logically and scientifically does not hold true.

It is a scientific fact that biological mutation will have a profoundly negative affect on the organism and will in most instances cause death. Aside from that the notion of environmental stressors causing mutating change in an organism is not logical. What would cause a worm to gain sight? Which of the five systems that are used to see within every seeing organism would have evolved first?

Now aside from the problems of mutation and the adverse and deadly effects it has on the living organism one would rightly expect to see many thousands if not millions of transitionary creatures in the fossil record and the fact is that none have been found.
For decades students have been shown a representation of the fossil record appearing as a vertical column with marine invertebrates on the bottom, overlain by fish, then amphibians, reptiles, and mammals, with man on top. The column is a column of time, they are told, with the long ago past on the bottom and the present on top. The fossil column (or similar figure) is presented without question as if it were true and real data. Students are led to believe that the order of first appearance of the fossils over time proves evolution. The dating techniques used by modern day scientists are inaccurate at best and complete fabrications most often.

Some 40 years ago it was very popular to assert that the age of the universe was two billion years old. It is currently fashionable to contend that the universe is 10 to 30 billion years old and the earth is about 4.5 to 5 billion. To begin with, the above should demonstrate that even scientists concede that "scientific" dating methods are not infallible. When one is "off" by 8-28 billion years, I don't think you're even in the ballpark yet. In addition, to say that the universe is 10 to 30 billion years old, graphically illustrates the obvious truth that these methods do not give absolute dates. A gap of 20 billion years is a very big gap! In examining various popular methods for determining the age of the universe and the earth, you need to be aware of the following:

Young dates for the Earth do exist. Gary Parker noted, 'it is very interesting that even on the basis of the usual uniformitarian-evolutionary assumptions. There are far more chronometers that yield a young age for the earth than yield an old age (i.e. fall of extraterrestrial material on the earth, erosion of lands, influx of chemicals into the ocean, etc.)' (What Is Creation Science? p. 281) For example, based on the amount of uranium in the oceans, and taking into account all the evolutionary assumptions in dating methods (i.e. initial boundary, values of zero, uniformity of process rates, closed system), the age given for the ocean is 186,000 years.

We are not being given all the dates when technicians and scientists attempt to date objects. There exist some 68 scientific methods of dating the earth and the universe, but the media only reports those which yield the ages that agree with current Evolutionary thinking. In fact, Evolutionary scientists simply dismiss dates (arrived at through the calculation of certain processes), which contradict their theory.

All The methods that yield vast ages for the universe are based on assumptions which we know are wrong. 'There are other effects which can discredit an age calculation such as the unknown initial conditions, unknown environmental factors. Radiometric systems are particularly vulnerable to such errors.' (What Is Creation Science? p. 276). Uniformitarianism is a “belief” held by certain secular scientists that says the rates at which processes are now being observed to occur have remained constant throughout geological time. But this is false. The early chapters of Genesis infer that life upon this earth was vastly different prior to the flood (i.e. human lifespans-Genesis 5:27).

Obviously, physical processes on this planet have not always functioned at the same speed. Even Evolution must concede this as true. Some of the large animals that roamed this earth (Dinosaurs, etc.) also proves that life on this planet has drastically changed. Also we need to remember that the Flood would have completely disrupted the physical processes on this planet (2 Peter 3:4ff). The earth's environment is a closed system (no outside forces could be allowed to alter processes or the rates at which they occur).

Again, the Flood proves this assumption to be in error (Genesis 7:11). Gary Parker notes, 'In general, a decay function tends to plot up as an exponential curve--falling off rapidly at first, then gradually slowing down as it approaches zero. AT ANY POINT along the curve, if an EXTERNAL interruption (catastrophe) affects the process, the decay rate may speed up abnormally for a period, and then settle back down to a normal decay rate.' (p. 276) Initial conditions of the system's components are known with certainty (it's known that the radioactive elements being measured must be the result of decay over time, and could not have been present at the rock's formation). However, today we know that radioactive elements may appear during the formation of a rock and are not always the end-result of radioactive decay. In researching this material, one can find that basically, by adjusting ones assumptions, one can arrive at whatever date for the universe and the earth one would like in order to support a particular world-view.

Gary Brantley observed, 'As a rule, archaeologists endorse evolutionary assumptions that the Earth is ancient and that man developed gradually--both physically and intellectually--over millions of years. Allegedly, as man slowly "evolved" he learned how to manufacture tools from stones, and gradually developed the ability to make pottery. With the discovery of fire, he learned to fashion tools from copper and iron. Thus, archaeologists assume that centuries transpired before man graduated from stone tools and weapons to metallic implements.' (Reason & Revelation November 1993 p. 84) Right here we have a classic example of why human wisdom fails to arrive at the right answers. It isn't that man is dumb, and neither are his scientific methods necessarily inaccurate. Rather, human wisdom fails, because it operates from the WRONG ASSUMPTIONS. A simple reading of Genesis 4:16-22, and Genesis 11 proves that the above assumptions are completely wrong, and anyone operating under the above misconception, even the smartest archaeologist, is going to come up with a time-scale that isn't accurate.

So in summation one can see that Evolution is primarily a work of faith and the human secularists have succeeded in immersing these flawed concepts into the mainstream of world thinking as it were everyday common knowledge. Now, let the games begin![/i]

48 replies

by ansugisalas

Even though the links don't work, that thing made my brain bleed a little.
Thanks for the scare, Maxwell. :0

by ansugisalas

that worked, you see!

I must say that I love how he uses bible references as proof that the axioms of science are false :D :p

by hal 9000

That's simply not acceptable any reference to that thread has been barred I'm off to report you for it now. :^0

Col

by dogknees

You appear to be saying that the people that espouse the beliefs you are addressing know that what they say is untrue, but say it anyway. This is patently not the case.

Calling people liars is offensive in the extreme.

by maxwell edison

..... the word, [i]you[/i], attached to the words, [i]calling people liars[/i].

Perhaps you should reread the original message, at least the part that's not in italics.

by charliespencer

The discussion was titled by Protius X, the original poster. All of the italicized content is quoted from the original discussion, posted many, many moons ago before white man first came to this country, when geese blackened skies and buffalo covered plains (and parts of western New York state).

by maxwell edison

..... our hair was brown and our teeth were white! (Due credit given to Graeme Edge, who recently proclaimed that he had lived through the 60s twice, from whom I first heard that bad joke. Okay, make that two bad jokes.)

I guess by reposting the EL discussion - without permission, and with or without provocation, of course - a certain amount of implied background knowledge is necessary to fully understand the significance of the thread; and without having some additional inside information, or personal experience, with my, shall we say, rather warped sense of humor, some people might miss something in the interpretation.

Anyway, out of those hundreds of messages that went back and forth in the original EL thread, not one of them was from me. (Well, except a couple at the very end when I was feeling rather ornery and tried to resurrect it!) Then again, had I gotten involved in the original, it might have reached five thousand, seven thousand, maybe even ten thousand replies, thereby bringing down not only TR's servers, but an entire sector of the Internet!

And Palmie, just between you and me, I started this discussion for one reason and for one person. To that person - and you know who you are - you will be to blame for whatever happens as a result.

by jdclyde

at the beginning that it was started by Protius, and not his. Some peoples kids, ya know?

by boxfiddler

anyone copied and pasted that thread before it disappeared into oblivion? I'd love to have it in storage for reminiscing. :)

by michael jay

I do not know if it is the entire thread, the print version has more posts than the collapsed version.

by boxfiddler

:)

Dang. What a pita via dialup. I may have to try again when I get back to my beloved broadband. :0

by hal 9000

All Females are into S&M at heart.

They enjoy Pain & Suffering that they live thorough and constantly seek out more to suffer from.

Sane people avoid that thing like the [b]Green Festering Monster[/b] that it is, constantly [b][i]Evolving[/b][/i] and changing for the worse. ;)

by boxfiddler

of so many fine minds in that one. Some of whom we'll not see again for various reasons. That's why I want it.
*she said wistfully*

by ansugisalas

which will be the evolution lie...

Damnit Lovecraft; I told you to get a native arab speaker to consult! This whole thing could've been avoided!
I should have known... "can eternal lie..." that doesn't even make sense!

by purpleskys

hope you are well. And I'm going to thank you for this as I've never had the opportunity to read it but have heard that I should if given the opportunity.

by maxwell edison

An opportunity! Yea, that's the ticket! That's why I did it. To give others an opportunity to ....... to ....... to ....... to what? To have the equivalent of a cyber root canal?

by purpleskys

while i'm not sure about others,i have been interested in reading this post since i had heard a few mention it along the way the last few years. I'm often curious about other opinions,.even if i may not agree with them.

by charliespencer

PS, when opportunity knocks, you don't always have to answer. In this case, you should turn out lights, jam a chair under the door knob, and sit quietly until the opportunity thinks you're not home and hopefully leaves. :-(

Really, this will be several hours (a few days?) of your life you will regret not having to live over.

by purpleskys

it'll take me weeks to read through it....and you need not worry about me drudging up a conversation on the topic, i just wanted to read it ;)

by charliespencer

You'll just pump life back into it. All of the counter-arguments have been made (on both sides of the issue). If you think you're raising a new one, you just haven't read far enough yet. Put your waders on and keep slogging. Like the old Prego spaghetti sauce ads, "It's in there!"

by charliespencer

I make an attempt to locate it every couple of years. I recall finding one with around 800 posts or so, and another around 1100. What's scary is that this version is barely half of it. Jay's original web log post proposing its removal lists it at over 2600:

https://www.techrepublic.com/blog/geekend/poll-which-embarrassing-discussion-thread-should-tr-erase/446

For my two pence, PX's opening statements demonstrate multiple misunderstands of the theory of evolution right out of the gate. 'Nuff said.

by maxwell edison

That was the most recent I could find on [i]WayBackMachine[/i]. (It was challenging enough to find the original URL so I could even search for it.)

Maybe the EL thread crashed their servers as well - or their PsTB decided to purge their servers of that monstrosity!

by nicknielsen

I remember reading the first couple-hundred posts one Sunday morning. What saved me from spending the rest of the day sitting there flipping my lips with my fingers was two large shots of single malt and Robin Hood, Men in Tights; I almost opted for a mental flossing.

I think Palmetto should pass (virtually, of course) every b*tch slap he ever received on to you...without benefit of hard hat.

by charliespencer

for the 'virtually' part. I'll air-drop them over CO; if he doesn't get hit directly, maybe he be caught up in the avalanches they start.

And what's wrong with spending a Sunday morning flipping one's lips?

by nicknielsen

I read through the morning. The lip-flipping started shortly after noon...the scotch was poured even more shortly thereafter.

by charliespencer

It was also handy to be able to refer to posts by their assigned numbers. I still think the dotted lines were easier to track than the current lines.

by jfuller05

Agreed, the dotted line format is much easier to follow than the current one. It hasn't kept me away from TR, but still, the current forum format is loathsome to say the least. Like I said, I still interact, but it's a pain to follow the conversation. TR's '09 discussion format (the year I started TR) was nice also.

by slayer_

Also, the old ones started in the middle of the avatar, the one one starts at the left hand side.

Maybe if they just made the lines darker...

by michael jay

that one person poked their head in the door yesterday, but said nothing.

Sometimes what you do not say, makes all the difference, wise choice.

by charliespencer

Slip into that frilly little number, curl up by the firelight, sip some wine, and have him whisper scientific misconceptions in your ears in his best bedroom voice. Ooo-la-la!

by ansugisalas

this talk of "Greys" and "Old Ones" conjures up images of Grand Conspiracies of Alien Anal-ysts and Lovecraftian Horrors in Cahoots. Cahoots, I tell you!

Now get off my damn lawn!

by delbertpgh

You must have some grouchy interest in watching other people scratch at old scabs.

The fact of evolution is as self-evident as the fact of God himself.

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