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The Journey Upward

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by duckboxxer

So I thought I would try to get out some of my questions and answers regarding moving up the ladder from a programmer to project management.  I have been programming for 8 years now and decided it is time to move toward project management.  Why?  Because I actually think I like it.  I know that my coding skills are dulling some and past positions have actually held me back and hurt my skillset some due to companies that wouldn't upgrade.  But looking ahead I am hoping my current position will help me sharpen my managerial skillset to help my resume in the future search for a PM position

by wayne m.

Having been through a similar transition, let me provide some miscellaneous thoughts.

1) Problem solving is the same with computers and with people.  The difference is the computer works at your pace; as a manager you have to address problems whether you are (mentally, emotionally) ready or not. 

2) You will become focussed on areas that you may have tended to ignore as a developer; time cards and deadlines are probably two prime examples.  Believe me, there is nothing quite so rewarding as running around to get time cards filled in five minutes before they are due.

3) People will come to you with their problems; you may not feel you have anyone to turn to with your problems.  Try to find another manager to turn to for advice.  You are now at a different level and you cannot confide personnel issues in your staff; that would only create divisions.

4) You will now need to assert your opinion on others; in reality you have little power to do so.  In general, I try to grant as much authority to my staff as possible, but there will be times that you will need to say, "Do it my way.  End of discussion."  After, doing so, however, understand you cannot really force your staff to do anything or do it well.

5) You will need to rely on others who may be less skilled than you are.  You can give advice, but then you have to let go and trust them to do their best.  On occassion, people will fall short.  You need to make them aware of at least some of the consequences without overwhelming them.

 6) As a project manager, you will probably be surprised with the amount time spent dealing with people not on your core development team.  Try to make sure your staff is not short-changed.

I hope this serves as a short list of things to be aware of when moving from development to project management.  I am also certain there are many I did not list.  Good luck!

by duckboxxer

Thanks for great advice.  I know there will be a lot of potholes for me to step in on this path.  Right now I am just doing development on a somewhat large and highly visible project.  My boss (a PMP) is really letting me take the reigns and I'm also working along with a business process guru for this project as well.  Our team is revamping an existing process, along with supporting application.  I am the technical lead, but am also highly involved in the management of the project itself.  And the process guy has lots of experience and I'm learning a lot from them both.  Yeah, it's a government contract position, but I'm learning a lot, even CMMI.

by duckboxxer

I work in cube world.  My cube is in a high traffic area and where it seems noise collects.  Moving to a new cube doesn't seem to really be an option due to new hires and some group cubical reorganization going on.  I've talked to the boss and it seems her group might be moving to a new floor.  She said she would request that I go to, maybe even to an office!  (I believe most of the other programmers here are in an office anyway)

I also asked about working from home.  I telecommuted before and it's really nothing big.  But due to security, I can only access the live secure part of the existing web application.  Then again, some problems can be solved by fixing data (and I created a few admin tools for that).  But currently I have plenty of documentation I am trying to put together for the re-engineering project.  We'll see what happens.  I'm tired of the constant chaos around me.  That's one of the reasons I'm here by 8AM (and I drive 45 minutes to get here!). It is jsut so much quieter then.  

by duckboxxer

Now if there is an option for someone to be on your team and they don't like to deal with ALL parts of a development project, is it terrible to ask that they not be on the team?  Here's the situation.  There is a developer here that knows the language which the application will be written in.  He has actually worked on the old system some.  

Now based on the work ahead and the project deadlines, I will need extra help with the coding of this thing.  I agree and with this developer having past experience with this, he is the logical choice.  But not so fast.

I asked this developer to work on a test plan so that the current system can be upgraded on the server (just upgrade ColdFusion versions).  He said no.  He said he only does unit testing on the things he writes and nothing beyond that; "I don't do QA".  

I had a number of thoughts on this.  For one thing, I think this makes him a poor developer if he doesn't want to test his modules within the entire system to make sure everything still works.  He also assumes that his unit testing is enough, which as a developer myself, I know better.  This also tells me he isn't really a team player.  He just wants to do the fun stuff (developing new things) and that's it.  Sure, documentation isn't fun, but it's part of it.  And because of these little tidbits, I don't really want him to be on the development team.

I spoke to my boss on this and she agreed, but her only hesitation was that if there isn't anyone else, that leaves me and that's it.  Otherwise he gets to code.  There is the potential for there to be others hired by then, but am I nuts for not wanting to deal with someone like this on my team, if I have a choice?

by wayne m.

I Agree - Too Much Trouble

I prefer to have a good set of generalists - those people will pick up any of the work needed to get the job done.  There will always be specialized knwoledge where only a couple of people (or even one person) can do the job, but the specialists should be able to step out of their role and do something else as well.

I would only take on the specialist described above if, one, the task required one developer full time, and two, the other people on the task were not deprived of interesting work to meet the needs of the specialist.  It is really a drag to always have to identify work to specifically keep one person happy.

Offer the specialist the job including all the work you expect him to do.  You may even consider having a written roles and responsibilities document for the specialist to sign.  Then leave the decision up to the specialist.  Offer the work that you have and let him make the decision to accept it all or turn it all down.

by duckboxxer

Thanks, I like the idea of handing him a roles and responsibilities document that he would have to agree too.  This would include fun things like documenting his code, fully testing his code and following the coding framework I will set forth.  I'm pretty sure my manager (the PM) would not have a real issue with this.  And I have a feeling that this developer would not appreciate it in the least little bit.  This guy would probably try to act as a lead on this and I honestly thing it would be too difficult to reign him in.  So I am feeling your right, it would be too difficult to keep feeding him specific coding tasks to keep him content.  

Let's just hope betwee now and end of design, we've hired another developer!

by wayne m.

Just as a follow up.  I have used the written roles and responsibilities document in the past and it definitely forced the issue of expectations.  It is better to fight the battle now through the R&R document, then to revisit it through out the project.  A couple of pointers:

1) Make sure the developer signs it.  I've had a developer take the document for review, thinking that he could out of signing it.  I kept hounding him for several days until I got the signed document back.

2) Make sure to schedule and plan a review of all items in the R&R document prior to the first milestone.  Manydevelopers will ignore the R&R document and hope the undesireable tasks just go away.

3) Don't play hero.  If someone doesn't do what he agrees to do, make sure he is present at whatever meetings in order to explain why he did not complete his tasks.  Most certainly do not do or reassign his tasks for him.  Do not punish yourself or others for his shortcomings.

4) If on the other hand, the developer has made good faith efforts to do what he agreed to and fell short, then it is up to the PM to take full responsibility.  This is a scheduling issue, not a performance issue.

Good luck! 

by duckboxxer

One thing I have figured out over the years how to deal with the workload.  Sure I've got a lot going on, from lots of different people. But through it all, there is one manager, one person that I answer too (and usually all the other people handing me stuff answer too as well).  This little trick is simple: What's my priority?  By asking this little question, you know for sure (and have some CYA) as to what has to get done by when.  Ok, someone else may complain; you tell them to take it up with the one that determines your priorities.  Being a developer, this one question comes in handy so many times.  :)

by duckboxxer

Users always want something.  From a new field to enter a sub order type, to something that blinks on their screen, to a new report, they always want something after an application is delivered.  In order for users to be happy, developers, project managers, analysts, whomever is gathering the requirements needs to determine what users need versus what they say they want.

This skill is usually not something taught in books and evolves after being burned a few times in the field because we made assumptions.  After having to deal with rewrites due to not correctly determining users needs, requirements specialists have to esssentially treat their interviewees like children.  You have to baby them a little to get out what they really do and what it exactly that they need.  Yes, asking the same question 3 different ways is old and probably annoying to users, but you have to do that to ensure that the answer takes into consideration all angles.  

I've recently realized that definitions are key.  A team member said the other day, that good requirements documents start with a glossary.  This makes so much sense; in our current requirements interviews the definition of "application" seems to be up in the air.  Also people have different views as to when a project starts.  These are key points to address if one is developing a project management system.  

Data types that come from users are also misleading.  An order number isn't always a number, it could be "123 ABC".  Here again, definitions don't always mean the same thing.  You have to root out the details of any data element you come across.  How big is that?  Is it really a number?  Is there a formula used to determine that?  Does that value come from another system?  Can you give me an example?  You have to continually dig to find out all the details about a data element.

This digging may take server trips as well.  Especially when you start putting pieces together from other interviews, other questions about a data element will arise.  Requirements must be a crystal clear picture of an application in order to give users what they need versus what they want.  

by duckboxxer

Friends are great. Good for destressing at lunch or a chat after a worthless meeting. Working for the same company or in the same building with your friends is a great thing. But working WITH your friends can be a bad thing. How do you tell a friend that the work they gave you, after 2 weeks and a few quick meetings to go over drafts, is crap?


I asked a friend here that didn't have a lot on his plate to help me out by writing a test plan.  It didn't have to be overly detailed, but I assumed it would have some details in it.  My friend said he had written these in the past and said he would do this.  I spent probably 8 hours taking a 3 page report and making it 8 after my friend was done. And this is even before it gets to the tech writer. All I needed was a test plan; it didn't have to have minute instructions, but I assumed there would be some level of detail in it. I needed some details but more than, 'click through the navigational links to ensure they work'.

I suppose it is good that Friday was his last day here. He's at a better job and much happier there. The question remains, do I tell him that he what he gave me, I had to spend a day fixing?

by duckboxxer

So what all goes in a test plan?  Testing will always vary based on the situation and application.  I found some templates online and they ranged from very detailed and sections that only applied to building bridges to those that were scarce on details.  I ended up with an Introduction, Test Case Procedure and Expected Results sections.

The Introduction was just that, an introduction to the project and the testing to be done.  There was a purpose, author, owner and dependancies sections.  This would be where modifications, project changes, etc. could be documented.

Let's just to the Expected Results section.  This simply stated what you wanted to accomplish with the testing.  Here the goals should be listed out.  I tossed around the idea of putting the next steps in here but put those in the Test Case Procedure.  

The middle section, the Test Case Procedure, is the meat of the report.  After the Introduction, I included a synopsis of the procedure: Initialization, Testing and Finalization.  This was just an exective summary of what was to be further explained later in the report.  

The Initialization section lists the paramters that must be set up before any testing takes place.  For me, that included the production server having the right software on it and configuring that software.  In my case, ColdFusion MX and all the associated data sources, collections, mappings, etc. for my application.  

Next was the Testing section, which listed out all sections of the application to be evaluated and what was to be done to them or what was to be displayed.  This also involved using a migration tool included with ColdFusion to test for any potential issues.  I was aiming for someone new to be able to sit down and use this as a checklist (which it will be).  That was why I went into a little more detail that was probably needed.  As part of the testing, I included a reminder to clean up any created or modified records from the database.  Also there were instructions as to what sections to ignore in the application.  

There also was a process for what to do in case of any errors.  This testing will be done on a live system, so one would need to know who to contact while testing.  

Lastly, the Finalization section had information what to do next.  After testing and any fixes have been applied, one is to contact a manager for approval of the upgrade and then the client should be notified.

by duckboxxer

I'm adding some reports to an existing system.  A number of project managers have essentially said that they don't want it unless it will give them PowerPoint files.  After researching this it will either cost them security on the server or $600 or so.  But I am shocked that so many people believe they can't live without this application.  This was even mentioned in a recent local news article: http://www.newsobserver.com/701/story/433169.html. Not like they can look at the same data in a PDF or Word document.  And most of the time they aren't even presenting this information, simply printing it out and handing it to someone.  

Here again people are looking at the tool, the medium at which they get information rather than the data itself.  Does it matter if you get a recipe from a website, magazine or a cookbook?  You still have to deal with the reciepe itself, regardless of format.  

Hopefully in this case I will be able to convince users that the document type isn't as important as they think it is.  Especially since they are just printing it out anyway and not really presenting it.  And even if they do present it, I think PowerPoint has become a crutch; people write their notes on slides and just read them.  If you are going to read what's up there, I can just take the file and read it on my own time, thanks.

by duckboxxer

So our little team of 2 1/4 were plodding along and I was getting anxious about the schedule.  Currently I was going to be THE developer and primary designer (along with supporting the old, crappy system too).  Well someone's unfortunate contract situation is our luck.  Our little team now has 2.5 more people for 2-3 months.  The thing is, how do you easily integrate (potentially) temp workers?  Yes you take the time to brief them on the current state of things and the project plan and other background information.  You assign them short tasks, but honestly these people could be gone at any time; their contract could get it's act together and instantly they are gone.

As terrible as this sounds, I hope we do get to keep these guys for the full 3 months.  That would make it so much easier to meet the deadline of September (and make up for the current state of being 3 weeks behind schedule).  

Also, how do people deal with new team members that are more technically skillful than yourself.  I don't feel threatened or anything, and I know I am loosing my programming edge (hence the desire to move to project management).  I am guessing personalities have a lot to do with things.

Another team memeber is a good deal older than I.  I don't want to insult this man, and he seems like a nice guy, but how does one approach a situation like that.  I've heard parents griping about being managed by people older than I, so it obviously is an issue.  How does one avoid walking on eggs every day and not insulting our elders, but managing them at the same time?

by duckboxxer

So it seems after much painful paperwork, we have 2 1/2 new team members.  They all have a wide variety of skills, from graphics to Oracle to coding.  I believe I will be the taskmaster, something I've never done for more than one other person.  That I believe I will figure out, since there are a wide variety of tasks from support for the current system, to design of the new system to researching how-tos (like connecting to a Domino directory).  What I am not so sure about is team interacation.

One person is definately more technically proficient than I am; I have to work on not getting the ego crushed in dealing with this guy.  But I can easily see how he can help the project out.  His skillset is awesome (assuming he can walk the walk, but he has the talk).  But one gentleman is definately older than I; I'm talking about 20 years or so older.  I would generally say 'Yes, sir' to this person normally.  But he is my team member, and I am tasking him.  I have this fear that I will insult him, simply by tasking him and the age difference.   How does one walk that line?  I've heard people complaining about being managed by 'kids' and don't want this guy to feel I am totally incompetent.

by duckboxxer

So we are designing this huge application that requires and is to provide a lot of coordination between currently disparate people.  I had a nice little chat with our project manager about communication.  I sent out an email with a spreadsheet asking people to fill in their specific information.  I asked for that by yesterday.  I knew I wasn't going to get that, so I started making house calls yesterday morning.  For people that were on my level or a little above (namely those on my floor of the building), I really didn't have a problem going up to them and asking for information or at least an ETA as to when they could get it to me.  Some of these people I normally hang around with here anyway.  

But there was one guy that was one a different floor, different department and a number of managerial levels up.  This was when I chose to ask about my tactics. I was happy that my PM approved of my methods.  She also said that getting this information would be like pulling teeth.  From there, I confidently marched into this manager's office and asked for the information I needed. He then passed it on to someone that actually would be better at filling in the spreadsheet.  

I suppose my next move for those that don't send me information by the date they had promised would be to send the polite individual emails and CC my project manager.  From there maybe another face to face or the nasty email and CC managers.  Hopefully it won't take that.

by duckboxxer

Teams have to gel in order to get things done on time and with the best quality.  Not all project tasks are fun, but people have to be willing to 'sacrifice' some fun tasks in order for everything to get done.  My timeline is short, and there aren't that many of us.  At the moment, I have someone 'volunteering' to temporarily be on the team since their project is running out and this person doesn't have a lot to do at the moment.  

This guy is a developer, but he only likes to do the 'fun' and 'new' tasks.  My dealings with him haven't been the best, and things like documentation and QA are tasks he really doesn't do.  Especially anything having to do with the old system.  How does one tell someone, "No, we don't have anything for you to do, mostly because we don't want you involved?" in a nice, PC sort of way that won't get me fired?  I just have this feeling that he isn't really a team player, just wants something cool to code, so he can say he was a part of this project (part of the project, not part of the project team).  Right now I am just trying to keep him at arm's length.  

by duckboxxer

This project seems to be dragging on.  Based on our original project plan, we should be in the throes of development.  Sadly we are pretty much at square one.  The client didn't seem to pay attention to things when we were presenting requirements to them in the beginning and when we were submitting inital designs, balked.  They didn't ask questions when we gave them high level requirements.  They didn't ask for details then, but now that we have things designed out, they start asking.  

So at this point, we have tossed the schedule out the window.  We are creating yet more documents for them because they don't get UML and therefore our more detailed project documentation is useless to them.  And unfortunately a key customer has had a family emergency and is out for at least a week.  

So we are left with "what next?".  Some things won't change too much.  The database general structure will be the same.  More or less fields, but basically the same.  Storyboards may go out the window, but I hope that they will go with what we suggest for the application layout.  The current application is ugly and confusing.  Our internal diagrams could need complete revamping, but who knows.

A huge issue was semantics.  A consultation is a meeting, right?  They
understand that.  In the software world, a concept means you don't have
an application built yet.  We spent 30 minutes discussing that one.  If
you have a meeting and then have another one, the latter one then is
not the 'initial call'.  They cannot let go of old terminology.  My question to them is, do you want to make this better or do you just want a prettier application?

How does one deal with situations where you go in circles like this?  I understand people do not want to change and we were commissioned to implement a new process.  But this is beyond frustration.  It doesn't help another that one of the
customers just wants to sit back and watch us fail.  Namely because he was formerly in charge of this process and now has given up that role.  

This insanity is why project fail.  Admittedly, I have learned that clients need more details when presenting the requirements.  Primarily becuase I think that our customers are just now realizing what we were saying earlier on.  Long presentations without a few specifics (even if they aren't flushed out yet in a design), especially of drastic changes, need to be brought up earlier on.  Find out what pictures the client understands; in our case basic flow charts would have helped.  For us at this point, alcohol might help too.

by duckboxxer

Well we are still waiting on requirements approval.  Now if we were just rewriting an application, we could have begun coding anyway.  But we are redesiging a process as well as the application.  We don't want to have to recode massive, key sections of the system because they decide to modify things.  But needless to say during this time some good things have come out of this.  Who has a coding standards document?  Only those with nothing else to do - us.  We have had to create lots of documents regarding this process, which will be good to pass on to those in this process and even help documents. But how to people keep from going postal in situtations like this?  I think the more important question is how do people (contractors) keep their jobs?

by duckboxxer

I have seen on a couple of discussion responses here on Techrepublic that mentioned family as key to a person being a good and responsible employee or even a manager.  I really don't see the connection between getting married or having kids to being a responsible and an overall good employee.  I have seen numerous family men/women that are crappy employees and even worse managers.  

Nor does age mean someone works well. Sure young bucks are missing experience, but those with lots of experience does not equal ability to manage.  Good employees can be lacking in experience, just as easily as those with seniority can be a pain to deal with at work.

Responsibility and quality of work is not defined by being attached to another human in some way.  Nor does age mean one is a great coworker.  Good employees are built on their personality, skills, trainability, work ethic, etc.  These qualities have to do with the person themselves, not outside factors.  What about the married guy who is sleeping with the secretary?  The woman whose kids are doing drugs in the school bathroom?  The man whose partner is spending more time at the bar than at home?  The single woman that worked her way through school studying hard to earn her good grades?  Quality and respect should not be passively granted by default based on age, saying "I do" or reproductive abilities.  

by dogknees

I guess the thing I'd find most unreasonable about this idea is the implication that those who are not married are Bad Employees.

Perhaps rather we should say that your value as an employee is inversely proportional to the number of spouses one has had.

by peterss

While I understand the thinking here, for true family-minded people, their outlook will be different. The single person works for themselves, but the family man/woman is working to provide for their family. I'm sure that I would be more inclined to change jobs, take more risks etc if single, than I do at present, because I don't want to jepordise the provision to my family.

by unni_kcpm

To add to above, I would like to tell few things like ;

1. First Case - A Bachelor / Unmarried person ( He or She ).  But His/Her basic family with Parents exist.

          -- Fresher (Just out of College).

             Will need some time to get well into the work atmosphere and to become a good employee.   Also depends  on his Education, Skills, Talent, Friendly circles, Family atmosphere etc. contributes.

          -- With some Work Experience.

              Can do the work depends on his Skill, Education, Talents, Prior Exposure AND his/her MENTAL / PHYSICAL attachment and behaviour with the Inside(in Office) and Outside World - i.e. if he's not maintaining a healthy relationship with co-workers and/or management and also he's disturbed with his Personal problems.  He can be affected and work can suffer.

2.  Second Case - Married Scenario.

              Can do the work depends on his Skill, Education, Talents, Prior Exposure AND his/her MENTAL / PHYSICAL attachment and behaviour with the Inside(in Office) and Outside World - i.e. if he's not maintaining a healthy relationship with co-workers and/or management and also he's disturbed with his Personal problems.  He can be affected and work can suffer.

Outside World also contains his Family members and the circumstances, atmosphere, attitude, duties/responsibilities and various factors can affect positively or vice versa in his work related performances.

 

by duckboxxer

I agree with most of your analysis unni_kcpm, but I think that the Married section needs to be divided into those that are balanced between work and outside, and those that are more devoted to one or the other.  More devoted to work effects the home life.  More devoted to home, could mean that work efforts are below par.  And sometimes one has to float between those two, but I would like to work with the more balanced person.  

Gbentley, I like your proposal that  one's value as an employee is proportional to the number of marriages one has had.  :)

But glad to see that some question these assumptions by some regarding family and value of an employee.

by errk'd guy

It really is more about balance. While the argument that a
?singleton? may be more apt to take risks and change jobs than an employee with
a family sounds reasonable. I have seen many employees who are married or in a
long-term relationship behave in a similar way because they are NOT the sole
wage earner for the household. I guess it all depends on the size of your
mortgage.

It truly is more about social skills and a healthy
work/life balance. The person supporting a family who is a workaholic (running
headlong into burn out, poor judgement, etc.) is more dangerous to an organization (and their family)
than a person leaving a position for other opportunities just because they lack
certain financial ?obligations?.?

I heard of the practice where a person is ?encouraged? to marry, purchase a large house
and have kids as an unspoken condition for making partner. The theory is that
you make a person feel financially trapped and you will retain them AND they
will work harder for you. Personally, I would rather work with people who are
there because they ?want to be? and enjoy what they do instead of working with
a bunch of resentful financial captives.

?

by justin james

My experience has been that employers love me for being unmarried with no children. Why? Because they know that I am much less likely to not come into work because my children are sick, more likely to be willing to work on a holiday (and the days leading up to it), and I am much more likely to not have a problem with travel. I am also a lot more willing to relocate, without having to wait until summer time and I am less picky about where relocation would take me (bad schools? No problem!).

That being said, I am more likely (and have proven it time and time again) to not put too much emphasis on stability either. It is much easier for me to job hop, particularly because I do not mind relocating. The unmarried vs. "family" employee is really a double edged sword on both sides.

I may note, marital status is not something that they can legally take into account, either... but they will and do anyways.

J.Ja

by lori

I think that Duckboxxer has hit the nail on the head.... Values

what are your personal values? intergrity, honesty, accountability, responsibility, personal work and business ethics.

Core values of a person are will not change over a person's life time, if anything, they become stronger and more reliable.  All the other areas mentioned marriage, family, mental stability, heck even what job or career you select changes.

My personal core values, allow me to make decisions and sleep at night, they have also lead to trust amoung the people I work with because they also know these are my values based on the actions I take.

by gsg

I'm not married, don't have kids, and I'd say I'm an excellent employee.  At least, I've always gotten the highest possible rating on my evaluations, I'm told I do a great job, and if there's something that no one else can fix, they call me in to at least give a different perspective to the problem.

There's little I hate more than people telling me that "Because you don't have a family,  you..."  I've gotten dumped on with extra oncall on holidays, given crappy assignments over weekends, etc...  I have a family.  I have my parents, my brother and his wife, my nephews, and most of all, I have a life.  If there's an assignment that needs to be done, assign the best person for the job.  Don't say, I'd like Fred to do it, but he has kids.  Let's let Jane do it.  She doesn't have a family.  That's a good way to lose a good employee, and a good way to get sued if it's overheard.

by wayne m.

Let me provide perspective from the other end of the spectrum.  I am married, have one child, and am slightly closer to my last day working than my first day.  For me, personally, I would say becoming married and having a child have changed me for the better.

First, life is not about absolutes.  There is no "Family = Good Employee", but this does imply that family often makes an employee better.  One of the outcomes of experience is one realizes that there were no complete successes nor complete failures.  Every success had its weak points and every failure had its strong points and often the differences between the two are miniscule.

Second, marriage teaches prioritization and delegation.  Having to balance work life with home life causes one to realize that he cannot do it all and forces one to prioritize what to do.  In my first year of marriage, I learned that I could not suddenly stay late at work one night or suddenly go into the office all weekend.  I had to learn to prioritize what I would do and what I would not do at work.  Without the crutch of being able to just stay a few more hours to be the job done, I was forced to learn to become more efficient at work.  I also learned to negotiate work with my boss, instead of just saying yes to everything.

Third, children teach acceptance of best efforts.  Early in my work life, I was very much a perfectionist.  Few could live up to my personal standards of excellence.  I was also quite unaware how far short of perfection I fell.  When raising children one must learn to accept the  child at his own level of capability.  Crayons scribbled on a piece of paper are far from a masterpiece, but the  joy of the child who has created something all by himself is unmistakable and I have proudly hung such drawings next to my desk.  Likewise, I have learned to accept my staff for their current capabilities, have become understanding of their mistakes, and can enjoy watching them improve their skills.

Being married and having children does not automatically grant these social and work skills, nor does being unmarried and without children ban them.  Being married with children, however, does put an employee in an environment where he is more likely to learn these skills.  It is all about trends and tendencies and also realizing that "truths" about a group (or population in statistics terms) cannot be applied to individuals.

 

by duckboxxer

I think everyone has their slant on this, namely based on their status, attached or single.  I can see the logic on both sides of the coin, where a single employee would be more desirable and other situations someone in a stable relationship makes the idea candidate.  This probably depends on the stance of the hiring manager and the general environment of the department/company.

Obviously, legally one isn't supposed to take marriage into consideration for a job.  I don't even think that you can ask someone about it during an interview, or at least one doesn't have to answer the questions regarding it.  Now I don't think that would go over well in an interview, but what can you do?  

What have you all done when faced with these sort of biases?  Not to go off on a male-female tangent, but being female in an IT world, it's terribly fun.  Above and beyond dealing with the boys club, people assume that being a married female, any moment now I will be pregnant.  Sorry, but no.  Generally if someone is making a big deal out of it I will come out with the full truth (epilepsy sort of complicates having kids, and I have no maternal desire whatsoever).  Some look a little shocked, but it usually shuts them up. Travel?  Love it.  Relocation?  How much are you paying?  Family?  Delta will get you there.  So in my situation, the potential for bias is on the lower end, but I can see for others it definately would be a big issue.

by jamesrl

A word to the wise.....

When in an interview, don't mention your family, unless it pertains directly to a question you've been asked. I'm not allowed to take that into account. You should know that.

Don't mention your religion. We aren't allowed to ask and it makes me uncomfortable.Again, you should know that if you are prepared for interviewing (with some small exceptions).

 

 This has by the way happened to me - candidates who mention their family and their religion, and even ask me my religion and family background/ancestry. It may be acceptable in some cultures but not here(North America). Asking that question didn't offend me as much as show me that the person wasn't acquainted with working in our environment.

I care about job performance. Who you are with, whether its same sex, different sex, makes no difference to me - so long as its not someone you work closely with.

Experience does count, but whats more important is the ability to learn from experience. 

I will admit candidly that younger single employees tend to be more job hopping than older ones. But sometimes thats fine - depends on the job I am staffing.  

James

by tony hopkinson

Based on me, I have to say I became a much more responsible individual when I took on a family (nothing to do with getting married, I still aren't). Whether that made me a better employee however is open to question, what it did do was make me cut down on riskier desicions (ones with bigger potential payoffs !) and ensure I always had a safety net, distraction from current resposnsibilities).

One of my biggest fallings out with management was when one opined that I should consider my work more important than my family. An opinion I could be violently in disagreement with.

Instead of chinning him, I spent a good while lining up another job and then left. So may be if I'd have been young free and single they wouldn't have had to replace someone with 14 years experience in IT in heavy industry in their plant.

 

by duckboxxer

What a bad situation Tony, glad you got out.  I think that is an issue with the management there, not whether or not you are a good employee.  Was this manager married or single (or just a jerk)?  Others in the company probably had no issue with your family obligations.  Situations like this are a combination of poor management, inadequate planning and those that do not have their own lives in balance.  The question then becomes, how do we (especially as subordinates) tell these people they need to fix their lives in order to have a better company?  I doubt that there are studies out there on how a positive environment effects ROI.

by tony hopkinson

 

Guy was a victim of his own predjudices.

 He was just in it for the money, course his minions had to salute the logo, to show how good he was. Guy was a superb analyst and a good administrator, but his man management skills sucked.

We got along quite well, once he twigged on how badly he'd f'ed up, never aplogised you understand, but he didn't irritate me in that manner again though.

 

by duckboxxer

So my project manager asked one of the clients if he had looked at a requirements document that he was sent a week ago.  He fumbled through some variant of 'no'.  From there he talked to his higher up saying that she was ranting about the status of the requirements approval.  Now we have been doing all sorts of dances to try to get this guy on board with the project.  The actual approving person in the client organization is fine with things. Needless to say this lie, this embellishment caused a ruckus.  When you have people that are so bent on politcial sabotage, how do you get real work done?

by lawben

First find out what's in it for him.   How is this project going to benefit him or his department and sell him that portion.   Most people are selfish by nature so you need to exploit his selfishness in pushing your project. 

by duckboxxer

The offical person we report to is now in the role the PITA is in.  The PITA was promoted, but he was in charge when the old system was developed.  He and the person now in charge that we report too loathe eachother.  Some of this I think is fueled by hatred and politcs.  The guy in charge isn't the best manager, good guy, but has a firefighter style.  He understands the technical to a point and tries, but doesn't always listen to the techncial people.  Needless to say I don't think the PITA wants the guy in charge to succeed.  This will be a large system and if we pull it off, then will solve a lot of problems, both with the process and the tracking of information.  As a nicity, the PITA was being included; at this point I think that he has lost that.

by lawben

Well...  It sounds like this guy is less than professional. One thing that is prevalent with our IT guys is the GOD syndrome.  Yes I think he is holding up the project for personal reasons.  Try this approach,  If this new system is as good as you beleive it to be and you are convinced it will revolutionize your business in a positive way   then have someone else take it to the PITA supervisor.   I'm sure is she buys into it and give him a directivbe to get on board he will.  

by duckboxxer

Yes, he seems terribly unprofessional.  He has truly lost a good bit of respect from our side.  From what I can tell, the PITA will no longer be invited to meetings and such unless he explicitly asks to be there.  From our side of things (contractor/consultant) we aren't going to invite him or send him anything for aproval from now on.  

by duckboxxer

Since Techrepublic is ending is blog feature for members, this blog will continue in a new location and under a new name. Computing Haze will contain the same content, from project chaos to commuting woes to cubicle news. Be sure to update your links!

 

Thanks

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