Treated differently than other workers

Have you actually applied for a position?

you can get the milk for free?
My wife is in a similar situation, though she is already an employee. She was told flat out that they will not allow her to move to a different position because she is too valuable where she is. They may also cut her pay just for kicks, knowing that she can't afford to quit. Her managers are an accursed brood and know exactly what they are doing to her.

I'd give you the same advice I have heard for a few years since I rejoined the work search force: Stay mobile, be as employable as possible, don't put your trust in any one company, keep your certs and resume up to date, and keep searching for work even now. You may find a better job and can leave your current one with proper 2 weeks notice (not burning your bridges).

You're valuable to this company. Its employees know that. The question is whether the managers know it.

If they don't then it's time for you to make them aware. Tell someone about the nice things that the employees are saying about you. Then tell them that you deserve to be hired full time and treated like any other valued employee.

If they already know how valuable you are, then they probably assume that they can continue to get away with mistreating you because you will stay anyway. If they don't know, then somebody has to tell them, and nobody's going to do that except you.

In either case, the first step for you is a risk analysis. Do you like your current situation well enough that you don't want to risk losing it? It's a jungle out there, perhaps you'd rather stick with a relatively steady paycheck despite all the drawbacks rather than walk out into the jungle and learn to avoid the lions. But don't forget that the status quo has its risks as well. Temps are lower on the totem pole than perms and can be easily let go during a bad quarter, no matter how valuable they are. There's no way to reduce risk in your life to zero.

If you're really not happy this way and you're ready for a change, then make sure you are comfortable taking the risk that will ensue. Then the next step is to become more assertive. Not aggressive -- don't be confrontational, angry, petulant, whiny, rude, or haughty. Just explain politely what you want, why you think you deserve it, and MOST IMPORTANTLY why it will be a good thing for the company. (Have you even thought that one out yet?) Then ask the manager if there's any reason why he or she thinks you don't deserve it or why it's not a good thing for the company.

If you've done "assertive" properly, you will maximize your chances of getting what you want, while minimizing your chances of having the encounter be the cause of your termination.

Nonetheless the chance of being thrown out always exists. Only a saint is able to keep his cool and react kindly to aggressiveness, but some people don't even respond kindly to assertiveness. There are a lot of simply awful managers out there who can't do their jobs well, and it's impossible to predict how they will react to anything.

Figure out what you want. Do the risk analysis and decide what kind of risks you're willing to take. Practice being assertive. Look at the situation from the other person's perspective and figure out why he'd even want to change it. Those are the keys to getting ahead. Good luck.

it sounds like you are doing a lot of different things. I'd be willing to bet that no one person sees what you actually do except when it pertains to them. make sure that the people in charge knwo what you do and how vast the differences are. More than likely they think your IT dir is doing it all and he ain't ever gonna tell them different.

As a studious employee you should maintain a well documented account of how you spend your day each day and make sure that the real boss sees it every week or payperiod. Mkae sure they see the value in what you are doing. If they ask why you're giving it to them tell them the truth. You want to be a full time employee and want them to see what you are doing. Bragadocio is nothing but confidence is a prize.

About six months ago I went to my supervisor with the fact that I want to be a regular employee and let him know I thought that this step was past due. I also informed him that I am like everyone else here I have a family and I need medical and that I recented the fact that the owners are overlooking me, he agreed and for the last six months has been pushing to get me hired. Once a week he meets with the owner and once a week I ask him any progress yet? Now six months later others in the company have joined in and letting the owners know that what they are doing to me is wrong. Now I feel that this is out in the open but have yet to see the results of any actions. I have been getting my resume together and after thinking about what you have said decided to start circulating it and letting my supervisor know this is my intension. I get things done around here period and your right they need to step up or I need to step down.

I hired a temp network admin person who was terrific. But there other factors involved, mostly political. He was replaced by a full time worker. Don't be discouraged by this. Just do the best job you can and carry this onward through references to the next job. Get the references!. You have made an investment in your current organization and your future, but it will probably not be your last gig. Concentrate on doing the best job you can do. Chances are pretty high that the reasons behind not hiring you have nothing to do with you personally. Keep it up. Keep your eyes open for something new and GET THE REFERENCES.

I know the situation that you're in.I have got this to tell you.That Grumpy piece of human flesh is just jealousy about you & what you are doing.But you are a winner keep on it's a matter of time.I know he is trying to bloke your path, but mind it that you sound professional.

Thanks

I have gone through these too so I know what you are talking about. Being assertive would be nice but in the real world, when your emotions take control, you start being aggressive and throw it all away. I got away with this because I had a manager that was in the firms bad books and he was just trying to cover up his lack of performance. I just happened to be there to suffer this brunt.

What I'm trying to say is this - there are quite a number of reasons for your predicament. You just need to look between the lines. My advise, leave as soon as you can. Don't be afraid! If you are as good as you say, someone else will recognise your talent. If paying you bills are important to you, hang on in there till you find a job. To hell with their exploits and politics!

I did, and I'm moving on with my life.

There are so many factors (personality of the persons involved, business plans I do not know etc) that I'm not able to tell you what to do. What I do know is how I try to achieve what you want. Every step in live and with it the descision(s) you have to make is a chance and you can not oversee the consequencies of those actions. But I realise that doing nothing is also a descision, with it's consequentions. If I'm not satisfied with the situation I'm in, I'll try to overlook the consequentions of my planned steps and then act as I think is right. Then I do the best I can to achieve my goal. I bear in mind the fact that I can lose everything. I can only talk about my point of view, but I prefer the risk of losing above the fact that I'm not happy with my situation and even more I did nothing to solve it. In all matters I try to oversee the best point in time to handle, but all I said above about consequentions accounts for this discision.

You want to come and work in Europe Bratt! We have very very good pay and conditions. 25 paid days holiday is about average.

I think the moral of the story is to believe in your true worth and be prepared to walk if you don't get what you want where you are. If I had a guy who was doing a good worthwhile job 9 hours a day - I'd not want to loose him.

Bratt,

I run a large support group for a financial company in Tokyo, please let me make a couple of observations.

My company decided to go the contractor route some time ago. I wasn't too keen on it, but as we'd had difficulty hiring good people I was stuck.

However, I am also in a position to hire the contractors I like on permanently when positions open...if I know the contractor is interested. So talk to your manager.

However, don't necessarily blame him if it doesn't work out. I've lost a couple of my good contractors against my will because managers above me decided they didn't like the contractor for whatever reason.

Also, I've had at least one contractor who, while he started out looking very promising, has gone a bit 'astray', and effectively lost his opportunity. So make sure your manager is honest with you. It's speaks volumes when someone is prepared to say "Tell me where I need to improve".

Finally, I've had guys who the users loved, but I've eventually had to fire, because their knowledge/effort was unreliable. So also be honest with yourself. Forget that the users love you, ask yourself "Where can I improve?" and - and I can't emphasis this enough - DO IT!

If you've honestly done all this and there's still no promise of a full time spot, talk to an agent. The job market is heating up, and if you've honestly done all these things you're a valuable employee and they will find you something!

Good luck.

Hey Bratt:

I really hope things go well, but here is my experience:

Managers were singing my praises and knowledge to me-but, LATER, I found out exactly the opposite-Reports submitted to HR (retention) mediocre employee, just puts the time in, yada yada yada. These SOB's were taking credit for MY work/ideas! How do you know people "stood up" for you-HEARSAY-

MARCH INTO THE MANAGERS OFFICE WITH THESE 'SUPPORTERS" AS A UNITED FRONT/BLOC! PUT IT ON THE LINE POLITELY. DO NOT ACCEPT THE "BRUSH OFF". WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE?

Finally, your education is a stumbling block-especially in the IT field. Keep that in mind and get CERTS!

its all about the benjamins and I could not of said it better

You didn?t mention if the other people hired were in the IT department. If they were, you got a problem. You got a firm that likes your work, but doesn?t want to pay for it. Basically you have two decisions. Continue in a job you love or providing the necessities of life for you and your family.

It is hard to judge because we don?t know how determined or resistant to making you a full time employee your supervisors are. Two years seems to be a rather long period of time to hold you in a temp position. It would not hurt for you to go to the people controlling your destiny and ask them what it will take to convince them that you are worth the extra investment. That shows that you have the initiative to do a better job and provide the service that they are looking for (that is not to say that you?re not doing a good job now). It will also put you on the same page as to what they expect so both can work for the same thing. There might be something that your not doing that can be changed on your part to provide them with the worth value that will say to them they don?t want to loose you.

You could also discreetly look for another job, and if you find one that is attractive, use them (your company) as a reference. A lot of this has to do with attitude. Just a matter of fact (I?ve got to look out for my family and my future) attitude when or if your questioned about the inquiry from another company. If you?re not questioned, then your position with them is not all that good as they don?t care if they loose you. It will also tell you if you?re not fulfilling their needs, and changes should be made on your part to change that fact. This last tactic should only be used as a last resort. You should find out from them what you?re not fulfilling to convince them that you?re worth making full time employee.

I have seen it through firsthand experience. I have seen it through my immediate family experience. And I have seen it through multitudes of friends and their horrer stories as well.

To avoid the heresay issue, I will only relate a few personal experiences...

Brought in as a "non-IT" IT Temp, to manage a parts master database of 150,000 parts in a HP/Legacy system, while the "real" employees were taking SAP lessons..... It was a six-month term at the temp agency. This ended up going on for two years.

Finally pushed them into a corner, they brought me in as a "contractor". No increase in pay. I left anyway, came back a month later for 4 times the pay. Now the same people that "rolled their eyes" at my suggestions in prior meetings, or "poo-pooed" my ideas in written form, had a mandate from their bosses boss.. "Do what this guy says, or look for another job".... LOL.

My wife was recently brought in as a temp at a local factory. Regular employees with coats on 15 minutes prior to end of shift, sitting on conveyors, completely away from workstation, milling around the door..... are ignored. Temps however must appear busy at all times, do not lean, sit, talk, or be out of area until the time clock strikes the hour. Or they don't have you back the next day. Also don't miss a day as a temp for any legitimate purpose (illness in this case). One infraction as a temp, your out!

There is a big disparity in this country, being exaggerated and perverted by some less than ethical companies (and in today's market, that's a BUNCH of companies of any size or setup). That is specifically, "Temps are less than normal people, and as a result do not have to be afforded the same rights as "real" people. They can be used, abused, and at the end of the day, thrown away like an old towel.

This is because the "temp" firms are selling it like this..... "Mr. Manager there is no liability or loyalty to these people (basically taking away your human rights, employment laws struggled for over the last 200 years, and decency), if for no other reason than "you don't like one of them" all you need do is call me, and they will be gone the next day."

It truly astounds me how many times I have heard employees talking and the phrase "oh but they were just a temp" comes up.

If you are put into an office position (as in case #1 above), the very act of you being there and drawing breath, forces the other employees to hate you, try to steal from you, slight you, and treat you bad. That is because YOU are there because THEY couldn't get it done. And after enough bitching to their manager, made YOU appear necessary. The last thing they need is for you to appear to handle it EASILY, WITH TIME TO SPARE... That would make them look REAL BAD.

In reference to situation #2 above... There are companies out there that have NO FULL TIME HOURLY EMPLOYEES. A couple salaried guys or gals, and everyone is a temp.

What we need is a law in this country that says, "IF MORE THAN 30% OF YOUR WORK FORCE IS COMPRISED OF TEMPS, YOU MUST PROVIDE THEM WITH BENEFITS, AND ALL OTHER PERKS GIVEN REGULAR EMPLOYEES".... That would stop this crap IMMEDIATELY......

But in this day of "vanishing freedoms" sheep-mentality grazers for most of the public, total apathy about our leadership at all levels (matter of fact it's just accepted that they are corrupt now, almost a prerequisite.... nothing will change.

It's time to take to the streets, take our country back, and make these bastard politicians understand that THEY work for US.... WE PAY THEIR SALARIES...... PERIOD.

Sorry to get "soap-boxish" but that is where the problem is, and dealing with it is gonna be ugly.... no way to sugar coat that.

If you don't get it up front, you DON'T GET IT.... PERIOD! Nothing usually will change that.
(see my post farther down called "It's in every industry"....)

Most importantly, don't forget to go to http://www.oddtodd.com click on downloads, and then proceed to download and watch the following:

Laidoff
Laidoff Help Wanted
Laidoff Annual Report
Laidoff Vacation Day

Or anything else that floats your boat. A little comic relief can go a long way.......

In your postings you revealed a few significant things. (1) You are capable at what level you are exposed to on the job. (2) You are being given opportunities to try your hand at additional responsibilities. (3) You are self-taught.

With the assumption that your seniors are approachable, try the "WHAT IF?" approach. What if "I" were to seek or pursue cert in X-skills or Y-skills added to the (prepared list of) responsibilities and the satisfaction rating I (currently) maintain, would I qualify for X-position or Y-position?

Your case is pretty straight forward. Either the company is an opportunist or opportunistic in nature OR, your being unqualified, leaves the company at risk and so, they guess-what-you can do best and learn as you both go along. IF the latter is the case, you can solve that quite easily. Ask yourself or investigate: What qualifications do the others that get in ahead of me have or display drive to achieve??

What I did was to go to the company supervisor and I told them I like working for their company but I am very unhappy working for the temp agency. Because I like working for the company I wanted to give them advance notice in case they want to retain me before I give my two week notice. The company hired me from the temp agency because they did not want to lose me.

If you work through a temp service, get with them, and have them force the issue. I understand you're uncomfortable with your position. To a certain extent, they need you to look for other work, they need some other company to call HR asking for your references and verifications. If they truly want you, this should wake them up to the fact that you need the full time permanent option.

The "not" part of this discussion, is that as a temp, you are treated a little differently, you have a little immunity from the general office politics, your scheduling should be a little more flexible. You should be able to do your own thing, without worry of real reprisals. I'm a little envious of your position. It's something I've been looking for, for awhile now. But, I have the next best thing, I'm the boss.

For every moment you are willing to accept this situation your employer is profiting at your expense. Perform a job search and find out how marketable you are. Go to interviews. Other employers will certainly make offers. Take the best of these offers to your current employer and ask them if they will match it. Confronting the employer with an action like this will show them that you are very serious about being treated in a fair and equitable manner. By forcing their hand you put yourself in a win-win situation. Your current employer will either correct the situation or you can move on to an employer that places a realistic value on your work.

It is time to try something evil, or at least try something that follows my definition of evil. First off, continue doing the excellent job that you?re currently doing. The next thing is to go above and beyond, performing at your highest level. This will make you extremely valuable to the company at which time they may make an offer. If they don?t, the final thing is to look for a position elsewhere and once you find it, give notice. They will probably make a counter offer and you?ll be tempted, but don?t accept it. They?ve had plenty of opportunity to take you on as an employee, but chose not to. Punish them.

A final word of advice, take your personal things BEFORE giving notice, I once hand an employer that decided that everything I owned in the office belonged to the company. Having seen this behavior on their part before the only personal item left on my desk was my lunch. Hope this helps.

Hi Bratt:

Hang in there. I was in the same position as you for what seemed to be the longest time. So I sympathise. But it sounds like you are doing a terrific job with good responses. Keep up the good work and keep up a good attitude. You've got good hours and what sounds to be a good job. To help the owners see what a good person they have, keep a list of your jobs/accomplishments that you can provide on your job audit. Ask people who say you do a good job provide you with a letter of "to whom it may concern". Put together a portfolio of all your good work and the stuff you are doing. And don't close your eyes to opportunities outside this company. But don't lose that customer service and knowledge base and good attitude. That's solid. Hang in there!

I don't like blaming the victim, but you have put up with the situation for too long. You have yourself in a comfortable position (you like the work, you do a good job). Somehow you think that you would have difficulty getting another job, due to "knowledge gaps" and lack of certs.
At the risk of starting a whole cert vs. non-cert debate, not all employers rely on certs. Start thinking of your knowledge strengths, your experience, your ability to do the job. Write them down, make a resume.
Don't like being a temp worker? Stop acting like a full-time employee! That doesn't mean do a poor job... not at all. Part of being a temp or term employee means that you have to prepare for your own exit. Your manager and (to a greater extend) the owner don't think of you as temporary. There are no signs of you leaving.
As another poster suggested, clean out your desk area. Don't make it look like you are comfortably entrenched. Carry your personal reference material with you, mark them on the outside with "Property of" stickers.
I my current company, where I was hired for a 3 month contact with potential become a regular position, I started treating my work as temporary. Passing in all written reports, reminding people that "you may not wish for me to take on that project, as my length of employment is not known", passing all paperwork and license renewal type stuff to regular employees. With each person (especially the ones that support you), remind them "I won't always be here to help you with that, let me teach you how to do it yourself." Word will get out by those that want to see you stay. Once I started doing this, they brought me on staff earlier than planned (with a small raise).
In the mean time, you are not tempting fate by looking for other work, you are being practical. Register with online job search sites. E-mail local recruiters. When they call you, say "I'm at a client site as a temp right now, so I can't take much time. This is a good position and I would like a similar one, but with benefits and permanent status. If they would give me permanent status and benefits, I would not be looking elsewhere." Keep reminding those around you that you are temporary, but really enjoy it there and wish you could stay on permanent.
Apply for other jobs in the company, you have demonstrated that you fit in and can do the job in spite of not having the specific training, but let your manager know when you do so.

Just because you don't want to jump out of the airplane doesn't mean you shouldn't have a parachute. Pack it, keep it handy and in plain sight, and use it only if needed.

Best wishes...

The cost of paying a third-party agency, or you directly as a consltant, is cheaper than salary plus cost of benefits. With the added benefit of no-stress regulation-free termination rights, you will never get "hired". Try to force a raise in your salary or benefits to make you equally, but not more, expensive as a HIRE, and you may succeed.

Test the water by putting your rate up. As a matter of principle I
used to do it every three months when I was working on an
hourly rate on the basis that when they hired me I knew enough
to hit the ground running, and every three months I had in
addition added more knowledge of their specific business and
problems - which made me more valuable.

In general there are two reasons why temps are employed, those being to fill a temporary staffing shortage or to assess the benefit of increasing staffing levels without the additional long term costs associated with permanent employment. If your contract is managed by an agency then there?s additional cost involved (the middle man) so there?s usually a good reason for keeping a temp employed. If however you?re self employed, it may be these case that you charge too little for your services and are and will continue to be a cost effective option. Here in the UK I also understand that after a period of time temps are legally entitled to employee benefits such as holiday and sick pay so there?s more incentive to dismiss or hire temporary staff in a timely manner.

The owners have been spoiled, a good worker and low costs and don't want to give it up. If upper management can keep you as a temp, they will do it as long as possible. You cost the company less with out benefits and all the red tape involved as a full timer. It sounds like you have built up a good work history. Your stuck with a power play. Apply for the job your in, let them know you really like it there, but business is business and your business is your self. Be low key about looking else where, but don't make it a secret. I went through the same thing and had a long sit down meeting and let them know I can't keep going like this. They did hire me. I might add it was scary. Good luck

BRATT,

IF YOU WANT A PERMENANT JOB WITH BENIFITS I SUGGEST YOU APPLY FOR JOBS AND DO NOT USE A TEMP AGENCY. YES SOME COMPANIES HIRE TEMPS BUT USUALLY USE THEM BECAUSE IT IS COST EFFECTIVE FOR THEM WITH NO RECOURSE FOR LETTING PEOPLE GO AS THEY WILL. THERE ARE TEMP AGENCIES THAT OFFER MEDICAL AND VACACITION BENEFITS ESPECIALY IF YOU ARE EMPLOYED FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME WITH SOMEONE. AGAIN THEY CHARGE MORE SO MAY NOT HAVE AS MANY POSSIBILITIES. BEING AN EMPLOYER AND OWNER OF COMPANY IT HAS BEEN MY EXPERIENCE THAT MOST COMPANIES WORRY ABOUT THE BOTTOM LINE AS MANY EMPLOYEES NOW ARE NOT VERY GOOD ABOUT WATCHING OUT FOR THE COMPANY.

IT IS A TWO WAY STREET AND UNFORTUNATLEY NOW EVERYONE EMPLOYEERS AND EMPLOYEES SEEM TO BE TRYING TO GET THE MOST FOR NOTHING OUT OF EACH OTHER AND IT MAKES FOR A BAD WORK ENVIORMENT FOR EVERYONE.

IT IS A RESULT OF OUR WANT EVERYTHING NOW SOCIETY WITH EVERYONE THINKING THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO BUY EVERYTHING THEY WANT CHEAP WHICH IS BRINGING QUALITY STANDARDS DOWN AND IS AN UNREALISTIC VIEW OF REALITY AND WE WILL ALL PAY FOR IT EVENTUALLY.

FIND A GOOD JOB AND EMPLOYER THEY ARE OUT THERE THAT WANTS YOU FOR YOUR SKILLS AND WILL HIRE YOU FULL TIME.

All the advice given is correct. Don't lose focus on your main objective, which is probably to get into a position you like. Maybe you should go to another company. Only you can answer that.You have several options open to you:

1. Update your resume (and update it every month)
2. Apply for the open positions
3. Start looking elsewhere for a job
4. Make your intentions of joining the company as a full-time employee know to management (don't assume they know)
5. Continue to do a great job
6. Document everything that goes on (what you do, who you talked to, what was said, when things happen)
7. Don't burn any bridges because you may need a referral/reference from this company.
8. Decide what you really want to do (stay at this company or go to another one)

As long as you are doing a good job and everyone keeps giving you kudos, management shouldn't overlook you if you apply for one of the positions.

I had a similar problem until I remembered that I really didn't want to keep moving up in the department I was in, I wanted to move into another dept. When I did, I used the same enthusiasm in pursuing the new job as I did in trying to move up in the old job. It actually helped me land my next job.

First option- line up another job first. Then go use proper etiquette to set up a meeting with your grumpy boss and ask for a performance review.
Make a list of every little thing and major thing you do.
If the review does not go well, give him an ulitmatum "hire me or I leave"
The reason why others are getting hired over you is because they are not taking the abuse. or they walk. and the grumpy boss knows it.
Second option
If you really like working their- then go to the country club and join a golf league or some kind of activity where you will meet other IT professionals. And talk about it at work!- I mean the about the activities you and the others.
How good you played a game, or water skied, or snow skied or somthing positive and uplifting.
be a little extroverted. Its all hollywood acting anyways.

Casually and discreetly let people know your getting out there.
From a bosses point of view when I look at an employeee I think to myself "do I want that person who is working for me or working for my competition?" Its a yes or no I can't afford it.
If you are indeed good enough-my business sure as hell cannot afford to lose a valuable person to my competitors.
Don't every sign any non-compete agreements!
Dodge that land mine every way possible.

First of all, you must interiorize that this is your call. That is, it's your life and family and you must go the right steps to fullfil your needs.
You need a permanent job with benefits, that will let you time to fill out the gaps on your education and experience. If this company is not offering this to you, look out for another one that does.
Be sincere. Your management must know that the actual situation cannot be made longer. Start looking for alternate jobs, but do not lower your proficiency. Be clear that this is not a pressure measure, but a necessity. You may not find the same money or the same tasks in another company, but at least be sure to find a solid ground where to grow.

Perhaps your answer is in your boss' response. If your working overtime I think it should be clear what needs to be done with IT. I've never worked as a temp, but I think that two years is a long time, especially considering that the company is hiring. You also should consider that you're being taken advantage of. As long as you are a temp and he can get away with not paying you benefits, the company is saving money. You need to consider what you would do if you or someone in your family had a medical emergency. Are you in a position to deal with it. I think that you need to make a decision on how long you are willing to tolerate this. Tactfully give your boss an ultimatum and be prepared to follow through.

This was one of the best replies to this type of question I have seen in a long time. There was excellent advise, and personal experience to back it up. I am in a similar situation, but with enough differences to make it a non-issue here. I just wanted to say "Atta-Boy" to cfstokes@hotmail.com for the thoughtful and apropos words.

I got a call from the Temp Agency I was working through for a large company, performing similar duties, this morning. After a bout with the flu, was told I need not report back to the company.
I since saw an ad for a job in a different field within my experience scope, and was hired. Now have benifits, etc.
I now expect the company will call me directly to get me back, as they cannot find a qualified replacement for me. I shall see.
Good luck, and I suggest giving an ultimatum. But, have another position in the wings, first.
LZ

Much as I sympathize with your position, as explained from your point of view, the real answer is deciding if you are really ready to walk out the door. Sounds like you are facing into the perennial conundrum of all Temp/Contract workers. IF you had a vision of going permanent or there are better opportunities, it may be time to walk. If not, then continue to provide the excellent service that you already ore offering. You may want to make a case for a raise in light of your increasing responsibilities..

The managements case is ...you knew the conditions when you accepted the position. In respect to the erosion of IT?there is a case on the part of many employers of whether they wouldn't be better served, budget/bottom line, by out sourcing their In-house IT. To your credit, it is very possible that your excellent efforts have been the reason they haven't made a decision.

The ?grumpiness? of your manager may be the result of him knowing that his position is just as tenuous as yours.

Bratt:

First let me tell you something I do know. What your company is doing is "illegal" (verify with Dept. of Labor first though). This same very thing happen to a bunch of Microsoft contractors that worked there for a year or more and worked 40+ (normally 60+) hours a week. After a law suit the federal government created a law that prohibits companies from hiring someone in a contract position for over 365 days a year and not providing benefits that regular employees are entitled too. They either have to hire you or lay you off after a certain period of time.

I would strongly recommend that you look into this. Another thing I have to say is that if they still refuse to hire you, then I would look elsewhere. I'm working for a company now that has me on a 6-month temp basis to see if it works out for them (not so much for me) and personally I think that is way to long. I'm only accepting this probationary period because I was out of full-time work for 2.5 years and I wanted to get back to work. I could handle 3-months but six months is taking advantage of me, PERIOD!

I've made the decision to change my online resume searches engines to looking for only full-time permanent employment. I'm very well like here at my company as well and do much more than Help Desk tasks such as training and Systems Administration. The previous guy was hired on as a permanent employee and he actually sat at his desk over 3/4 of his daily time. Plus our Network Administrator is not even certified in anything and he is a full-time permanent employee and I'm sure makes more than $15.00 an hour like myself. Now, I have been doing I.T. work full time since leaving the military in 1997 and I'm damn good at what I do. I actually have experience in the military in I.T. related work as well so I have over 12 years experience.

Anyway Bratt, I would strongly recommend looking elsewhere, where you are not being taken advantage of . I know the feeling and after working contract positions for four years before I was last, laid off I realize that it is time to look elsewhere. Good luck and look into the thing about the labor laws.

The thread is interesting if not particularly timely. Bratt's last post was 8/20/04. Now, all of a sudden, Tech Republic Slash Dots the thread in their Net Note emailing. [edit - Made the Tech Republic front page, too.] Maybe there's a temp in their organization that is feeling under appreciated?

Anytime I've ever known anyone to go from contract to perm they filled out an application with the company. If that doesn't work start checking the local Sunday paper for a permanent position.

As a contractor you should be getting more per hour/day than an employee with the same job (the difference is supposed to make up for the lack of benefits/vacation/health insurance, etc as well as represent a premium for the instability of temporary work). If you are being paid less than the comparable employee after benefits are counted (usually his salary plus 20-30%) then you are underpaid and the company is getting a bargain for you. If you work through an agency get them to negotiate a higher rate for you, or do this yourself...just do it respectfully and use persuasive evidence.

If the company is getting you cheap, that might be why they don't want to hire you...you are a bargain...when they know you are aware of that, they will be encouraged to hire you.

If you are getting a fair contractors' wage (1.3-2x salary of comparable employee) then the reason the company is not hiring you gets a little less clear. Perhaps they are thinking of cutting back or changing direction in IT.(outsourcing??). Perhaps they do not see the value you add. You could become a little more visible, make sure management knows what you are doing.

Good luck with it.

I have had quite a bit of experience in this area from both sides of the coin. I took a temp position several years ago with HP. My contract was for 2 years and if I worked 1 day beyond 2 years they would have been required to hire me. Fortunately, after 1 1/2 years I was brought into the HP fold w/full benefits. After 4 years, they outsourced our jobs to Mexico and offered a severance package that was too good to refuse. I reeducated myself (before I had no formal education in technology) and, after 2 years went back to HP.......as a temp again in a menial position. I kept looking for other jobs the whole time there because the outlook for being hired as a regular HP employee was pretty grim. I landed another temp position with another company as a call center rep. That was about 2 1/2 years ago. My contract was for 11 months. I worked hard and kept looking and applied for internal positions with my current company. I landed a permanent position in the call center and, after a very short time, was moved into a senior tech position. After less than 6 months in that position I applied for a supervisor position. I got it. The point to this is......don't give up. Why do we use temps? It's twofold....1st...temps are less expensive to pay. We're in business to make money and using temps is a great way to keep our overhead down. 2nd....using temps allows us the opportunity to separate the wheat from the chaffe. We can make sure our employees are top drawer BEFORE we hire them as regular employees.
One last thing.....and this is totally from my own experience.....don't whine about being a temp. I knew when I signed my temp contract that I was not going to get the benefits and perks that come with the regular full time positions. I knew from the get go that they were going to watch me to see how I perform before hiring me as a regular. I determined I would work for them as though I was getting full benefits and perks. I determined I would look out for the interests of the company as though I was going to receive profit sharing from them. Did it pay off? Yes. Would I do it the same way again? Yes. So, keep hanging in but, keep looking for other positions. Keep your resume current and ready to present. You just never know who is out there looking for someone exactly like you. One more thing.....don't spend lots of time discussing the inequities of the temp position with other temps. It just fuels the fire of discontentment and does nothing more that create a negative work environment for yourself. Choose the positive route. Good luck on your search.

One thing I've learnt about IT is it's so fickle. So you must prepare for the worst but hope for the best. In your case you would be better off out of your situation as they are using you. Two years as a temp, that is outrageous. I'm beating if you approached your boss and asked for full time employment he would turn you down. So get another job and once you have a job offer in hand, approach your boss about hiring you full time. If the worse happens and he says no, hand in your notice. Time to move on.
On a side note, if you are really good at what you do, a hard worker and quietly went about taking care of IT business, your x-boss may come calling at your new job location with an offer. One can never tell...

One thing I've learnt about IT is it's so fickle. So you must prepare for the worst but hope for the best. In your case you would be better off out of your situation as they are using you. Two years as a temp, that is outrageous. I'm beating if you approached your boss and asked for full time employment he would turn you down. So get another job and once you have a job offer in hand, approach your boss about hiring you full time. If the worse happens and he says no, hand in your notice. Time to move on.
On a side note, if you are really good at what you do, a hard worker and quietly went about taking care of IT business, your x-boss may come calling at your new job location with an offer. One can never tell...

My question is: why did you wait this long? I think that 1-3 months' time as a temp or a supposedly temp-to-hire or "independent contractor" job is sufficient time for a company to decide if they want to hire you as a permanent worker. Longer than 3 months can get costly and they can take advantage of you, if they haven't already. For independent contractors, you usually are not eligible for Unemployment compensation at least not in the state of New York. No taxes are deducted from your paycheck. After the usual 90 days, you will not be offered an insurance plan. This can hurt you in the long run. These days, if you're single and have yourself to support, doing temp work is a guarantee that you will never get rich. Why? Three good reasons. (1) Temp agencies never take enough taxes out of the paychecks and you end up owing it to the IRS. (2) If the office is closed, if there is a holiday, if you are sick - you lose a day's pay. (3) Last reason--an important one though: If you decide you want to go on a much needed vacation, you can go ahead and take that week off but you won't get paid for it and if you get sick and need a doctor and do not already have insurance, you have to pay out of pocket both for a physical exam, diagnostic tests and any necessary prescription medicines. Ouch! If after 90 days a company doesn't recognize a good worker when they see one, it's time for YOU, yes YOU to call a meeting with your supervisor and reach a resolution or look for another job! It happened to me at a major hospital here in New York where I was told on the interview and at hire that I was a permanent employee and then had to wait 6 weeks before I got paid for my services, in which a lump sum check with no tax deductions whatsoever, and by the time the 4th month rolled around, I spoke up with my supervisor, did not get a satisfactory answer and started looking for a new job. I took off a couple days in order to do so and when I returned I, and two other "independent contractors" were replaced by a hospital employee floater from a different department, thus the department was downsizing--all this was not known to us until that day! They also had the nerve to ask me to train the person who was replacing me and two other workers!

You're going to have to bite the bullet and talk to the grumpy administrator or whoever it was who originally hired you. This company has been stringing you along and that's not fair! Also find out the laws from your department of labor in the state that you live in and see what they have to say. Again, if after 90 days a company doesn't recognize a good worker when they see one, it's time to speak up or move on!

alot of small companies have owners and executives who are afraid to deal with the issues and challenges of changing opportunities in technology.
It sounds like there is no real management of IT and you are mending fences and enabling the "Grumpy Admin Manager" to survive in spite of his/her own incompetency.
If you feel you are capable enough to list the issues and risks to manage the IT, step up to the plate. Otherwise, you can just list the tasks and accomplishments you have delivered and your personal assessment of the impact to the business in saved costs or reductions in lost revenue opportunities.
You can either take the position that you are thankful for the money and the opportunity to serve. Or you can take the risk of winning or losing and stepping up to the plate.
One other option it sounds like they may be assessing is total outsourcing. That is probably what they mean when they say they have not decided what to do with IT.
Consulting is an at will opportunity and that is why it pays more. Accept the fact that you cannot force them to be more than they want to be, but can empower them to aspire to more. Hope this helps. dg

In the "it's easier to say than do" category: Find another job, one with benefits, and where you are sure they will hire you (like when they say "when can you start," and you say "in two weeks"). If you absolutely love the new offer, take it. If's it's a close call between the new job (and stress of changing jobs) and your current job, that's the time to go to your present management with the "hire me/fire me" speech. It's just about the only way this little speech can have true teeth. Of course, I wouldn't mention the new job offer your current boss -- until it's apparent the current boss won't budge.

As the old saying gos why buy the cow when you are getting the milk for free (or cheap in your instance). I would ask 1 more time and start looking. 2 years? Its time for them to shit or get off the pot.

Hi Bratt,,,I have a contractor working for me (and he has been for three years). My company was on a "get rid of all contractor" bent for awhile. Then we went through massive layoffs (firings) as they moved thousands of developer jobs to India. As luck would have it, my contractor has a special and rare knowledge of the application that we support.

I am now in the process of getting him hired as an employee because I can make him billable for at least two years.

In these situations, there are two things that you can do,,,1) seek out other employment, or 2) get yourself a champion within the company who has the power to push for your hiring.

Have you spoken with the temp agancy that you work through? When you were sent on this assignment was it a temp to hire, or temp?

Brad if I was you I would ask if I was consider for a full time job if available. If they reply don't know or not sure. I would start looking for another job, but I would not quit it till I got another job. I't sounds like your doing such an outstanding job that as long as you keep them happy they would not concider hiring you.

Take a week off!

I spent 4 years with the same company without a holiday or sick leave.

I finnaly managed to rec a month of leave (my hair actually started growing back) and when I got back I was amazed at the change of attitude from both the users and coporate team.

It's a sad fact of life, but you dont know a good thing until you lose it

I don't know what state you live in, but in Oregon, employers are required by law to hire you after 1 year as a temp. The lawmakers figured that the company should be able to make a decision in that amount if time uf they want to hire the person or not.

One of the companies that I worked for, would use that year as an extended probationary period.

Well thought out comments and advice. I hope Bratt takes you up on your advice.

The fact of the matter is, you work for the temp agency, not the 'client' company. I would go to the temp agency and put the ball in their court, explaining your reasons for thinking that the place might have an interest in you, and why you're looking for something with benefits and the other things you want. They will probably be willing to go to bat for you, making things easier for you all around. If you go to the client company, things could get sticky.

Wait it out!!! That is my advice. You have to look at how the business you are working for is trying to reduce the cost of hiring you. While I'm sure it is going to piss you off, they may leave thier decision in limbo far a while, not because of anything personal. It is just that when you become permanent the company has to pay a bonus (finders fee) to the outfit that found you. They want to put off the cost of that until they have made up ammount they will pay for the finders fee. A typical finders fee is between $3000 and $5000, so it may take 6 months to a year after your origional contract is up, before they make a decision one way or the other. But chances are if they are waiting that long they anticipate hiring you. It they are not interested they will stop wasting your time fairly quickly and will let you know. They don't want to keep paying for your serveices if you are not providing value to the company. So take the wait as a good sign. It is streesfull, but right now contract jobs is one of the few ways to get into a permanent IT job. Not many companies are hiring outright in this job market. They want some gaurantees before they bring someone in, and a temp company or a contract employee can give them that. Good luck!!!

consider going to the bios upon adding a part to your computer WE NEED a menu of 1000 cartoons to explain this in a 1000 different ways from a 1000
different points of view .
DISABLED PEOPLE CAN BE CONNECTED TO THEIR COMPUTER
AND CREATE SOME NICE WORKS OF ART

Two years is long enough. Start looking somewhere else. Many companies use temps to see who they like. Then, hire them. either their is sometning they don't like about you. Or, they are just taking advntage. In either case, it is time to force the issue. Be nice but firm. Tell them you need a more stable position to support your family. If they don't offer you a job, they probably never will.

Lou

Can you show your worth to the companies line managers? This is where you'll make your money.

You've got the experience. Just make sure you've got the certifications to go with it and FLY!

Great post, probably the best advice I have ever seen on any message board ever anywhere.

One question -

Where were you when I needed you?

(Spent almost 6(!) years as a temp. Biggest mistake I ever made. I can actually see the person at the interview thinking, "must be something really wrong if six years and never hired.")

Why do you want to be hired? Are you making as much as you should? Is this experience leading to bigger and better things in the future? These are the types of things you should be asking yourself. If your worth as a professional is going up and is marketable, then I'd use my experience for another endeavor, once you're ready to move on. It's clear they don't or won't think about your needs when you are still learning your job. Once you have mastered your current assignment, start shopping around....you may find more growth possibilities elsewhere. Update your resume now and when you are ready to go. The word JOB means something entirely different these days...since all the outsourcing has put pressure on IT and Business to cut or curtail growth in costs.

After working 14 years and being the first and only functional involved with creating the first accounts payable system for the air force, I too have felt the second class feeling as a contractor to DOD. Makes you really wonder why it is done like that. Everybody supposedly is suppose to be on the task with one common goal - creating, modifying, testing and releasing software and we are all human being however have seen it in action - the better than though attitude that is prevelant in a contractor/temp environment. I find it hard to stomache the constant I am in charge attitued and you are my modern slave. I would much rather be treated like an equal all the while knowing that I am a hired body. Sympathise with your sentaments and situation.

as my mom used to say "rolling stone gathers no moss" pardon my spelling.. stay there and talk to the owner if possible, to explain your situation and i know he'll understand (talk like a layman) and keep you and promote you instead of the others. just make busy with what you work now.

they can't keep a good man down and that's you!

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Nabaza.com - http://www.nabaza.com/sites.htm

It is a violation of federal law to keep a full-time temp for more than a year. Just ask Microsoft...

They may want to be able to change their minds without the hoo-haa normaly involved in cuting a position. Not that such a thing sounds likely. Some people just "feel" more free when they have the choice.

Have you tried to get a significant boost in your pay rate? I don't know how this kind of thing works with an agency, but since you are become valuable to them you might have some leverage.

If fear of commitment is a major factor then perhaps you can accomodate that...for a price.

Could being outside the normal system possibly save someone from the tenure based job-stealing thing? That is, if the person in question has made himself valuable.