Two weeks later...

I'll take your joke with grace.

But I won't turn down any future opportunity to get even, you know this, right?

by jdclyde Oct 9, 2006

it wasn't a joke.....

B-)

by techexec2 Oct 9, 2006

Of course, my skeery dear Mae! Even when thinking nice things about you and wishing you well, one must keep on guard. Sort of like having a pet alligator. :^0

Nurse Tigger has provided some EXCELLENT information below for you that should help things get better in the end.

I doubt you need any advice about this. The 12-hour days and 7-day weeks are extreme, desperate, and unsustainable. The company is going to have to back off from that. It's better to have a smaller business than no business at all.

Thinking lovely thoughts of you... ;\

Seriously...do well and be well... :x

by techexec2 Oct 9, 2006

The really funny part is that this "getting even" started before we ever met on TR. It's kind of an offense-oriented response to [i]future[/i] acts that are imagined might occur...maybe. Like "pre-crime" in the movie "Minority Report".

None of us stand a chance!

:^0

by nicknielsen Oct 8, 2006

Just the new site rollout yesterday (Saturday).

I appreciate the reminder. Days of the week don't hold much meaning for me right now. Everyday is Monday...

by ontheropes Oct 8, 2006

the bikini wax didn't work. This is so ridiculous. It's just a little splinter. My husband is going to try to find some drawing salve and see if that works. If it doesn't, I'll have to see a doctor becuase I'm afraid it's starting to get infected.

by jdclyde Oct 8, 2006

And would have a difficult time going back to it.

If they are not paying overtime and some bonuses, now sounds like the time to walk as you know they were looking at your position anyways. Don't kill yourself over a company that feels no loyalty back.

Tell hubby that you can remove splinters much like snake venom, by sucking it out! :p

I have just got home from a weekend in the woods and just starting to look around.

no overtime or bonuses. I do have 4 employees who are paid hourly, so they are raking it in right now and that makes me happy.

We had our first round of replacement workers show up today and had to ride the prison bus with them. There weren't any incidents. Everyone is tense. Usually, when we're waiting to get picked up in the morning, it's loud and boisterous. Not today. You could have heard a pin drop.

One of our major customers came to our facility with one of our competitors to look at the tools and molds. I haven't gotten the word yet, but I think we may have lost that business.

I'd love to walk, but at this point, I'm not ready to do that. I want to wait it out and either get laid off, or be able to find another job before leaving this one. Being locked in for 12 hours a day makes the whole interviewing process difficult. :) Give me a few more weeks and I'll probably leave, though.

by jdclyde Oct 9, 2006

to sit back and give advice from my easy chair, no one really knows the full situation better than you.

I am very confident that you will handle this well. Was just putting back into the fire on how even without the strike, they weren't exactly all peaches and cream to you and your future.

got me fingers crossed for you though.

by stress junkie Oct 9, 2006

The Federal regulations are fairly clear. When you are doing work that is mostly cerebral then the employer doesn't have to give you overtime pay. However, when you are doing work that doesn't require a college degree or equivalent then you are entitled to overtime pay.

You could call the local labor board. See if you can at least get some money for your time.

Regrarding the splinter I would use a safety (one sided) razor and just cut the darn thing out.

by shellbot Oct 9, 2006

i hope it ends soon Mae.

you can't keep that up forever, make sure you take care of yourself

by tig2 Oct 9, 2006

I wish that there was something that I could say or do that would help. The situation you are in bites.

Splinter- First, apply a hot (as hot as you can stand) cloth to the area. This opend skin pores and will make extraction easier. If you do not have a good view, someone else will need to do the removal. Sterilise a needle by exposing the point to flame. The point should get red hot. Now the hard part- dig. The needle will help to both expose the splinter and provide an extraction path. If there is infection building, it should drain as the splinter is extracted. The good (?) news is that the infection is trying to push the splinter out.

Once removed, clean the area frequently with rubbing alcohol and consume copious amounts of grain alcohol. Continue to consume until feeling ceases. An anti-biotic cream would be a good idea... for the splinter site.

Yep, it is likely that the rats will abandon the ship. You're going into the third week and after awhile, 12 hour days start to wear on a person. Question is, is there an end in sight? Is corporate doing anything to address the strike? Are they keeping you aware of developments? Or are they simply looking at your site as disposable? The answers to those questions tell you what your next steps should look like.

No matter what, start taking a good B Complex vitamin immediately. It will help your body to deal with the stress your are under.

GG is in a similar situation lately as well. Right now, the job life just bites.

You are in my prayers.

the hot compress, soaking in a hot tub of epsom salts, bikini wax and needle nosed tweezers. And when I say 'I tried', I mean my husband tried. I'm pretty flexible, but I'm not THAT flexible. :)

He found some drawing salve, so I'll give that a shot tonite.

Thank you.

by techexec2 Oct 9, 2006

NB, my friend, your post was rambling a little (no offense, goes without saying), but I think I understand what you're saying. And, you are preaching to the choir.

My 12x7 comment to Mae was only about the mentality and situation I see the company is in. Globalization is a good thing for a bunch of reasons, but it must be done in a way that does not benefit some in America and devistate others. As it is being done now, there are big winners and big losers. And, there are a lot of lies being told about it.

I'm a career software engineer. Offshoring and onshoring (H-1B and L-1 "temporary" work visas) are having a direct affect on people working in my technical discipline.

If I were "emperor of the USA", I would lead ALL of it, not just the very rich and powerful, and not just the very large multinational corporations. How? Complicated answer.

In short, we need BALANCE. We are WAY OUT OF BALANCE right now. And, I don't see EITHER political party leading in the correct direction. Simply letting the largest multinational corporations run wild around the globe making profits is certainly not the solution. There is a lot more to leading a nation than that.

I'm with you on this. Convinced? :-)

that I said Thank You! That is just perfect and I'll pass that along to my staff.

That is very interesting. I didn't know that. And I will look in to it, Thanks!

When you are salary, your a$$ is pretty much theirs to ride to their hearts content. :0

if in my job description, it says "other duties as required", I'm pretty much screwed..

It's starting to ramp up here. More people, threats, and such..

after all this time of you teasing me, it turns out it is really YOU who is getting stuck in the butt!

:^0

[i]"I don't care who you are, THATS funny!"[/i]

by jamesrl Oct 10, 2006

If your title is management, and you have "other duties" essentially you are a slave to the company. It may be different in your jurisdiction but its a pretty widespread rule.

Sorry to hear about your challenges. I'm glad I am no longer in a unionized environment. I don't think I could handle assembly line myself, and added to that the pressure of crossing the line - hope you can destress when its over.

James

by stress junkie Oct 10, 2006

The only opinion that matters is that of the labor board. Just ask them.

by stress junkie Oct 10, 2006

... then they have to pay you overtime. If that wasn't true then the employer would put everyone on salary. In fact I read a story where a hospital was trying to say that all of the nurses were supervisors so that the hospital didn't have to pay overtime. So, that suggests that no matter what your job title, when you are doing blue collar work you are entitled to overtime pay.

I'm not sure that the labor board would agree with me. I think it is worth asking the labor board about it.

they are considered managers, according to an article in the Detroit Free Press last friday.

Expect to see more and more of this. ANYONE can have a position that pays salry. I have known people that had it hung in their faces and jumped at it, without doing the math on the expected new hours.

Average salary worker will work 45 to 50 hours a week. There is also usually a clause that says the hours are "what is required to get the job done".

She can ask the board, but it is unlikely she will see anything from it, and only speed her own job coming to an end. There are not any GOOD solutions I can see from her situation other than to be let go and collect unenjoyment while she looks for a place that will apreciate her and her abilities.

by tig2 Oct 10, 2006

The pain is even more far reaching than you think. It isn't getting better and will get worse. I KNOW that both of you understand that the pain level has reached maximum and is heading for the "off the chart" zone.

When I hear someone say that they don't need to worry because they are doing a good job, I just shake my head. I have watched people who are doing a great job get laid off. The whole Midwest has been hit and I am waiting to see the spread.

In other years, I have seen new project work initiate in October. Not this year.

I have been trying to find a project- or even better, direct work- for awhile. There is none. And even though I am quite qualified to work in a variety of IT roles, there simply isn't anything. What I can find is generally less than a month in duration... and I do whatever.

I know an American born programmer who finally moved his family to India. I know another who committed suicide- his life was defined by his job and he couldn't cope with the loss.

It bites to think that the best I can do is to go back to administration or waitressing. I hate what is happening to my country. And oddly, I am thankful.

When I got sick (damn- 3 year anniversary is coming soon!) I was in a VERY bad place. I found out that I could dig ditches, detail cars, wash dishes, and more... and did so for a long time. All the way through treatment and beyond. I survived that and know that I will survive this. But it is HARD!

Yeah, I am probably rambling too. But I would take that 12 hour a day job. Right now.

And on the other hand- I refused to be submitted for a job that requires travel. I know- I am pretty up-front about my missing part here, but don't want to have to announce it to an airport security group or pack it in my luggage. I think that I should be allowed to have SOME dignity.

That may have to change...

http://ppspublishers.com/articles/gl/fairpayfactsheet.htm?gclid=CK6bsqnS7ocCFUp4OAodin5kjg

I have to accept that with good grace.. :)

by faradhi Oct 10, 2006

There are a lot of issues here. First, the Labor laws in question have nothing to do with education level. It is all about the work performed.

There are some guidelines that guide what can be considered and Exempt (Meaning no overtime rules) employee. Here is a good link for those regs.

However, there have been recent rulings that extend the number of employees that could be considered exempt and I do not know if this has been updated to include those regs.

I hope this helps.

Mae, I missed the what happened thread. I am sorry to hear things have gotten rough at work.

-Bryan

[i]"But I would take that 12 hour a day job."[/i]

Negotiation with workers and labor unions is no longer necessary when this is the position people who work are put in.

P.S. Nothing wrong with hard work at all. That's not the problem. That has never been the problem.

[b]Activist Executive Branch[/b] anyone? :0 X-(

Oh, the hypocracy!!! :0

The Judiciary is not the only one bending rules to suit an agenda.

Nurses who do not have authority over others and merely direct or guide other nurses are not supervisors. Using a definition as broad as that, virtually everyone but entry-level people would be a "supervisor". [i]Everyone[/i] tells the entry-level people what to do.

My view: This is a clear abuse of labor laws, there will be a suit, and the courts will rule against the practice.

You don't have to be a [i]~lefty whacko~[/i] or [i]~love unions~[/i] to know this is not right. I'm not and I don't. If the executive branch does not like the law, they should get Congress to change it.

P.S. And, ketchup is [b]not[/b] a vegetable. :^0 :p

P.P.S. I would like to hear Nurse Tigger's view on this.

REFERENCES
[i]
Nurses in Michigan who assign duties to other nurses can be designated as supervisors and kept out of unions, the National Labor Relations Board said Tuesday in a decision that labor groups say jeopardizes the organizing rights of hundreds of thousands of the country's 2.6 million registered nurses.
[/i]
Unions: Ruling hurts nurses
Move calls those who assign 'supervisors'
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006610040368

National Labor Relations Board (appointed by the President)
http://www.nlrb.gov/nlrb/home/default.asp
http://www.nlrb.gov/nlrb/about/default.asp

National Labor Relations Act
http://www.nlrb.gov/nlrb/legal/manuals/rules/act.asp

edit: dang formatting!

Nurse Tigger: Please favor us with your view on this.

Thank you oh wise one. :x

If you take the politics out of this and give it a calm, cool look, you would realize that the EXECUTIVE branch is not the branch that sets or changes these rules/laws/regulations.

Go back and re-read about how this happened and who made the rulings. I am betting you will not see this as an executive order handed down from on-high.

Congress is to blame for most everything that happens and doesn't happen, and hold the real power. The President is a spokesman with the power of veto. How many vetos have you seen since 2000?

Judicial has been out of control as well, ever since they forgot their role in government is to either fully enforce the existing laws or strike them down as unconstitutional. Period.

I was just pointing out that there is activism in the Executive as well as the Judiciary. Here's how I understand it to work. Correct me whereever I am wrong.

1. Congress wrote the National Labor Relations Act. Signed by the President (not this one...decades ago).

2. The National Labor Relations Act is administrated by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB).

3. The National Labor Relations Board members are appointed by the President and approved by the Senate.

[The NLRB is an independent part of the Executive (exists outside one of the departments of the Executive branch). It is affected by politics, especially when both the President and the Congressional majority belong to the same party as has been the case for the last 6 years.]

4. The National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) made this ruling. The NLRB vote was along party lines (according to the article). Hence, it could have been affected by politics.

REFERENCES

National Labor Relations Board
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Labor_Relations_Board

Independent agencies of the United States government
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agency_of_the_United_States_Government

edit: typo, clarity, references

From the ruling for Oakwood Healthcare in Taylor (the one in question):

[i]
The Board found that the charge nurses, as a regular part of their duties, assigned nursing personnel to the specific patients for whom they would care during their shift. The Board found that such assignments, which consisted of giving ?significant overall duties? to an employee, met the statutory definition of ?assign? under the Act. The Board further found that the Employer met its burden to show that its charge nurses exercised independent judgment in making such assignments. Finally, the Board found that the Employer failed to establish that the rotating charge nurses exercised supervisory authority for a ?substantial? part of their work time. As a result, the Board found that only the Employer?s permanent charge nurses were supervisors, rather than employees, under the Act. The majority opinion is signed by Chairman Battista and Members Schaumber and Kirsanow. Members Liebman and Walsh dissented.
[/i]

Nurse Tigger: What do you think of this ruling? What do "charge nurses" really do? Does this make them "supervisors"? Or, are they merely the lead staffers? Thanks.

REFERENCES

NLRB Oakwood Healthcare Ruling
http://www.nlrb.gov/nlrb/shared_files/weekly/w3072.htm#Oakwood

Senate Confirms Two NLRB Members and General Counsel (August 4, 2006)
http://www.nlrb.gov/nlrb/press/releases/Senate_Confirmation.htm

by stress junkie Oct 10, 2006

I didn't expect my post to generate a big side discussion. I'm glad that TechExec2 looked up the story about the nurses that I mentioned without providing references.

Glad to be of assistance!

These days, when I see a job that needs doing, I jump on it before the dang thing goes offshore!

:^0 :^0 :^0

One of the replacement workers was followed and beaten last night, another one had his tires slashed. Security found nails in the parking lot (welded together so that the pointy side lands up). They broke the restraining order and entered the parking lot last night when we were bussed in (around 25 or so union members) I wasn't overly afraid, but it is unsettling. I had my picture taken this morning, but I don't think they got my good side.

the good news? My husband finally got the splinter extracted last night! It doesn't hurt to walk or sit anymore. :)

by techexec2 Oct 11, 2006

Well...Isn't that just lovely.

GREAT to hear about the splinter!

Very sorry to hear about the violence. I know you'll take it very seriously and protect yourself properly today, for the rest of the strike, and AFTER it ends. It's never "over" for some people. This cannot be taken too seriously.

Take care, Mae.

the violence seems to be toward the replacement workers. My fear is, I'm not 'out and about' much, being it IT, I don't have very much interaction with the union members, and I'm also dressed for factory work. I just don't want to be mistaken for a replacement worker. I'm very careful in the evenings to make sure I'm not followed, and my husband waits for me on the front porch with a baseball bat. He makes sure all my employees who car pool with me are safely in their cars before going inside.

I'd like to hope that this will be over soon, but from what I'm hearing from my boss, he doesn't think it will be.

by gadgetgirl Oct 11, 2006

Seriously, I mean it. Get yourself armed to the hilt, even if this won't be going on much longer.

Yes, have mace/pepper spray handy, but consider investing in a nice loud 140dB personal attack alarm. If you want a very cheap alternative for pepper spray - travel spray bottle, filled half full with water, topped up with half and half ladies perfume and mens aftershave, one preferably musk based (stinks, lasts ages, and doesn't wash out that easily once combined with perfume...don't ask how I know...) Obviously, use a cheap perfume, preferably sweet and cloying and the exact opposite of the mens aftershave. To use: spray directly into the eyes and mouth....don't bother about the nose, it'll get there, it stinks so much.

Right. Next. Do you take a handbag to work? Sorry, that'll be a purse, to you! Do you have one that has the metal clips that clip onto each side of the bag to make a shoulder strap? If you have, here's another tip: get your man to go to the nearest hardware store and get a semi heavy linked chain. Put the clips from the shoulder strap on each end, and use that on your handbag - sorry, purse! In emergencies, you unclip one end, use the bag itself as the handle, and you can flail away catching the idiot in any place you can - preferably on bare skin; it leaves welts if you don't actually get to draw blood.

Shoes: wear trainers/flatties when going to and from the car park. Faster for getting away. Sod looking good, you need to be safe.

Same with skirts - don't wear 'em. Stick to trousers, easier to sprint.

God forbid, but if one of them gets hold of you, protect your face first. Especially your eyes. They can fix most things these days, but eyes, for the most part, ain't one of 'em. Think about getting wraparound plain glasses - even safety ones - if you have the slightest idea there may be bother in the car park or anywhere else.

Lastly, for the moment anyway, NEVER, EVER go back to the car for something you've forgotten once you've got to the factory. Leave it. Get it on the way home. Even if it's your lunch - get something else, or cadge off others. Don't put yourself at risk just to retrieve something that is totally replaceable, unlike you.

Right. If you're not sure of any of that, or you want more if you think it's going to get really nasty, let me know. I'm on sick leave at the moment, and can't recall whether you have my personal email or not; if not, let me know and I'll pm it to you (cos even with the site changes, I STILL can't change my pm addy!)

Stay safe, Mae - put yourself first. Be aware, and keep aware.

by jdclyde Oct 11, 2006

There are no "friendlies" at a time like this. Assume people wish to do you harm and don't give them an opportunity to do so.

This is just not a cool situation your employer has knowingly placed you in.

I really appreciate the advice. I have pepper spray and we are escorted from the parking lot, into our main facility, then escorted back out to a bus or van and escorted by two security vans to the manufacturing and distribution building (which is where IT is).

I haven't gone ANYWHERE after hours without my husband. He doesn't usually even attempt to tell me what to do, but he is adament about me not being alone at anytime. I'm going to go ahead and let him have his way on this one. I really think he's more frightened by this than I am. I'm not really afraid, but I am unsettled. This week will be their first week without a paycheck, so I expect the incidents will be coming more often and they will be more violent.

More than anything, I am tired. I'm tired of doing physical labor and trying to run an IT department at the same time. I'm tired of fighting with the foremen over my people running back and forth between IT issues and manufacturing work. I have some employees who are older than I am and I see the toll it's taking on their health. I hope they find a way to find a new job and just go away. I'd rather deal with the fallout of that than see them go through this.

Edited: stupid spelling errors

by jdclyde Oct 11, 2006

Now would be the time to wear your normal geek garb, and carry "shop cloths" in a bag so you can change in and out of them as you need to.

NOT blending in would be a very good thing right now.

Watch yourself. :x

Got any mace or pepper spray? Now would be the perfect time to get a small can on a keychain. Spray and run. (after a few kicks) ]:)