USB 2.0 a Goner????

USB 2.0 works fine in Linux. Just because M$ screwed the pooch doesn't mean the end of the world. There are real operating systems out there that don't have problems like this. I know; I'm typing this message on a SuSE box.

Windows's High Quality Lab is like Dr. Mengele's Painless Dentistry Lab.

by the young one Mar 27, 2006

Why would it matter, this is not a debate about Linux / Windows / Mac.

The problem is simple, Windows is coming up with a bug...I have to support the OS, if you want to use Linux or any flavour of it then go ahead, I am not going to waste my time with a long winded debate that will not change the fact that a huge proportion of the world is using Windows and if they experience the issue it needs to be fixed.

Back in your box newbie

The very title of your discussion implies that if Microsoft screws something up then that thing is dead. Windows isn't the only operating system in the world, but your post acts like it is. If that's being a purist, then call me "yellow snow".

I wouldn't call someone with 146 posts a newbie. You'll just look stupid that way.

by jmgarvin Mar 27, 2006

You implied that without Windows USB 2.0 would die a horrible death...

You want answers? Why not check with MSDN, I'm sure they have nothing on this problem and plan to not release a patch later.

by dlmeyer9 Mar 27, 2006

Hawk,
90%+ of the computing world cares. Maybe it doesn't matter to you
or to me ... at least, not at this moment ... but that doesn't mean it
isn't a problem for millions of others and might not become a
problem for us.

What if this glitch results in a change in the spec that brings forth
devices we can't use? It wouldn't be the first time MS has 'fixed' a
'standard'.

I thought Windows was the best thing out there until some rude customer service from M$ led me to find out what all the Linux fuss was about a couple of years ago. It's precisely because I used Windows so long (15 years, to be precise) that I speak so highly of Linux. I know Windows well enough to know how broken it is, but I didn't realize just how bad it is until I switched to something that just works.

You're right about "fixing" standards. Once M$ realized a few years too late that this Internet thingy wasn't going away, they even tried to co-opt something as fundamental and proven as TCP/IP and create their own networking stack. The same thing happened with .NET after Java became popular. Linux's flexibility and agility will make sure things still work even if they do manage to get a "tiny" change to the standard. After all, M$ tried to keep other operating systems from being interoperable with NTFS by keeping the specifications secret, but there are programs out there that fix that. You can't keep a good OS down.

by jmgarvin Mar 27, 2006

You do realize that there are 25-50 million KNOWN Linux users and 50% of the server market is made up of *nix.

90% is bogus.

by faradhi Mar 27, 2006

I have several XPSP2 boxes completely patched. All are running USB 2 devices fine.

by michael_orton9 Mar 29, 2006

My PNY USB 512 meg drive is working OK, XP SP-2 latest updates.
But by Lidl's silvercrest webcam stopped working when I had the latest M$ updates. Their web site suggests new drivers, but they don't work.

But Linux is not without problems.
The last major update to SuSe 9.2 pro, it works OK on my AMDs, but on a 550Mhz P-iii (HP BRIO) I have to go to YAST using, alt+F2, alt + underlined letter and keyboard arrows and tab to reconfigure the mouse.It works OK until shutdown.
I have tried a Belkin USB mouse too and thats the same. Too lazy to try yet another mouse, just don't switch the PC off much!

by csoteloibarra Mar 27, 2006

Young One: Would you remember which updates did you apply and how (i.e. one by one on each individual machine or did you have all machines download them through the network in an automated manner as a package?). Not all patches in the MSUpdate site apply to every machine or even to every possible configuration of a single machine and normally (with the exception of critical security patches and patches that fix a bug you are already experiencing) the "if it ain't broken don't fix it" policy is a good one.

It is also a "best practice" to implement patches in a controlled environment before releasing them to your production users.

Try rolling back the updates on a given machine and see if this solves the problem.

by the young one Mar 27, 2006

Hi Mate,
yeah I see what you mean, the problem is (we think) that a security patch has inadvertentally stuffed something up.

Be this by design or otherwise (eg some sort of code fault) I have no idea.

Only other common thread is that 60% of the pc's experiencing the problem are on McAfee. Have disabled mcafee and am about to uninstall in the hope that this may bring some joy.

Failing that it's got me buggered.

The testing was performed extensively, however the testing of USB thumb drives and other USB mass storage devices wasn't anticipated as a problem that may arise from a security patch (hind sight suggests I add this to my list)

Unfortunately I don't have a powered USB hub to try it with (and frankly I resent the idea of having to buy one for the sake of it.)

I'll keep testing and if I come across a fix I'll shout out.

Any useful thoughts welcome, I need a solution ASAP...

Cheers

by overcharge Mar 27, 2006

If you know about when it died, run back the update log and see which it might be. Uninstall and see if that works. If you have a box that is working, compare the updates.

Other than that, it means fresh install, ghost periodically, and bring it up to current. With enough systems that are FUBAR, it might be worth it.

by wwells Mar 29, 2006

I am having the same problem and would welcome any suggestions/solutions. Thanks

by oknightowl Mar 28, 2006

It is entertaining to have read the Flames from NightHawk vs The Young One. TYO made a simple statement that there seems to be a problem with MS & USB2 (I've experienced that one) and the diatribe about how great Linux is & apparently how wonderful their support expertise is, etc. Linux good - does a lot of stuff - mostly solid as an OS, but lets face it that Corporate America is not ready to go back to the Command Line and Almost everything has moved toward MS as a one stop shop. Remember that the US Govt until a couple of years ago still used WordPerfect, and Lotus 1-2-3.
Finally someone has taken his, TYO, question & comment seriously, posted a solution without getting on a soapbox - taking shots at MS where years ago it would have been at Big Blue (and for those who don't know who that is - it is IBM).
Congratulations - You have saved my Mental Health. I thought the intent of a forums was all about, asking a question and getting some respectable responses. Hallaluhah. Keep up the Wonderful Job and Attitude.

by totalnontech Mar 29, 2006

Anyone who says "it's the sandals & ponytails that are holding back open source" is wrong. It's the attitude.

Holy cow! The guy has a difficult problem, asks a simple question, and is repeatedly attacked. In the civilized world, that is plain and simple rudeness (defined by The American Heritage Dictionary as "Lacking the graces and refinement of civilized life"). If you lack the graces and refinement of civilized life, you'll never truly succeed in the civilized world.

Try to be a diplomat for your cause, not a warrior. Remember, TotalNonTechs like me may be lurking. Ad hominem attacks are starting to give me a negative impression of Linux. I'm starting to rethink my foray into building a Linux-based HTPC and reconsider a MCE-based one. It's one thing to be treated rudely by a giant corporation like Microsoft (I've come to expect it); it's quite another to be treated rudely by an individual.

by the young one Mar 27, 2006

Look, whatever.

The point of it was to catch attention, not to start a purist debate.

If you had a problem and wanted to get anyone experiencing USB problems what would you put up?

I have better things to do than sit and read flames when all I want is a bloody solution.

A spade is a spade and you are wasting peoples time. Get off the forums, get a life and don't be a twat. If you really knew what you were doing you would probably be out there doing the job instead of playing silly buggers on forums all day.

Thread ended.

Well, not having had the same problem on my Windows XP box, I can just say that Google is your friend. That, and some technical compentence.

If you bothered to click my username, you'd find that I do do this for a living. But, since you haven't figured out that blue means clickable, I'll sum it up for you: I work a help desk that supports over 650 Windows boxes and 70 Windows servers. So, yeah, I am out there "doing the job".

Check your facts before making stupid posts. People like you are the reason my organization doesn't hire consultants.

by warhog73 Mar 30, 2006

You're a good 'un, Young One, a stand up fellow. Well said, old bean; don't let the 'em beat you down. After all, it was your post and like a famous egg once said," It means just what I choose it to mean, neither more, nor less". A PS- I just had a USB2 problem with an Iomega external drive; took a while to get XP to recognize it again after removing it, and now it's as a generic, although Iomega claims that's OK. I'm wondering about the "safely remove hardware" item. Might be a good place to start looking.

by mickster269 Mar 27, 2006

I've got about 2 dozen USB items (from thumbdrives, mouse/ keyboard adaptors, external hard drives, and USB to Bluetooth adapters)on at least 12 different machines.

Most are running XP Pro, some are Server2003, a few XP home, and one XP Tablet edition.

Haven't experienced any problems from any of the devices. But we aren't using Macafee...

by Jay Garmon Mar 27, 2006

My SANDisk Cruzer Titanium jumpdrive suddenly stopped working at home, where I auto-install all Windows updates (yeah, I'm lazy). The same thing happened to my XP PC at work, where we pretty regularly update. Now, I have friends here using different brand of USB jump drives with no issue. I'm curious if this is a brand-specific issue.

The SANDisk drive has no associated install disk, the drivers are supposed to live-install automatically from the drive the second you plug it in. I'm wondering is an XP update has slamemd some security barrier in palce that prevents this type of functionality. Any ideas out there?

by presleye699 Mar 28, 2006

I also have a Sandisk Cruzer Micro (2GB) and until last week it worked fine. My XP laptop does not have a USB 2.0 port (ver 1.1 only) so I use an Adaptec USB2.0/Firewire400 PC Card.

Last week, I tried to access my Sandisk thumbdrive and the XP laptop slowed, then froze and finally bluescreened. I didn't immediately relate the BSOD to my attempt to access the Sandisk thumbdrive. So I rebooted, and went through the same process and immediately bluescreened again.

This is the first time I've had this problem since using this device. Is there a driver issue with the Sandisk Cruzer thumbdrives? Is it an interaction between the driver and the newest MS patches? IS either MS or Sandisk talking about this issue and are there many reports of similar issues from other Sandisk Cruzer users?

I've since only used the thumbdrive in my USB1.1 SUSE Linux 10 laptop. It seems to be working fine on my Linux laptop, but I won't try it on my XP laptop again until I can be reasonably sure what the problem was and that I've been able to resolve it.

Any information would be helpful. Thanks.

by rgeiken9 Mar 27, 2006

I have a San Disk Cruzer micro 512 MB that Windows has been unable to identify since Christmas 2005. It works on other Windows XP systems, but not mine. I have two other thumb drives that work fine. I also have an external USB 2.0 hard drive and a USB DVD/CD writer that work OK. Can't seem to get any help from Microsoft.I have the microsoft Windows Media Connect program installed OK, but still won't recognize the new San Disk thumb drive.

by neil higgins Mar 27, 2006

works fine on XP SP2,but just to go off-topic,my Trust Wirelesss keyboard works fine,untill I install the driver disc,then it does zip.Once deleted,hey-presto,a-ok again.I guess there must be quite a few gizmos "out there" that get confused by MS code.Still,I bet when Vista is released,even my monitor probably wont work.

by nz_justice Mar 27, 2006

I reckon you have a hardware problem.

I have had a similar problem but it was not because of windows update. It was because of damaged USB cable.

The devices connected to your USB hub could be drawing more power. If any of the USB cables connected to your hub are damaged between the PC and the HUB then more power will be drawn for the device with the faulty cable. Try disconnecting USB devises till you get power back on your HUB If you disconnect all but one and still no power switch the last device. Your HUB could be busted test it on an other machine with no updates to eliminate this possibility. Do the usual uninstall USB deice drivers reinstall then restart machine. If none of this has worked just ignore this post.

by nz_justice Mar 27, 2006

And build your own driver.

by ozi eagle Mar 27, 2006

Upgraded from W2K some time ago and now only one of my USB2 ports works correctly, other one gives message that a USB 2 device would work better in a USB 2 port, rather than USB 1.1.
Also infra red dongle for mobile phone connectivity doesn't work ( OK still, under W2K, on another machine)
USB cable to mobile phone, with phone management software doesn't work correctly - OK on W2K.
External HDDs OK.

by nikhil_rattan2003 Mar 27, 2006

fireware come and now usb is gone nobody is interested in usb 2.0 or 1 . So, don't worry about that usb. just keep going on advancement of storage devices.

by joanne lowery Mar 27, 2006

Adjust your environmental variables with the following:
"devmgr_show_nonpresent_devices" set the value =1. Reboot. Go to the device manager and under "View" set "show hidden devices" Clean out any grayed out devices listed under you USB and "Other devices". I had to do this to clean out a stuck MP3 player. If you have uncompleted USB interfaced printer drives then this helps as well.

by the young one Mar 28, 2006

OK, I've rebuilt my XP machine from scratch using an XP Pro disc with SP2 included.

Vanilla installation, nothing special.

I just tried the brand new thumb drive I purchased (came with brand new usb extension cable) and it worked on SP2 flat.

I'm now going to install each patch individually (very painful I know cause of the amount of reboots) and see which one breaks it.

For everyone who is posting on this thank you for your input and help.

I'll keep you posted....

Articles I'm looking through for a relevant fix:

USB device does not function after connecting device to a Windows XP Service Pack 2-based computer or to a Windows XP Tablet PC Edition 2005-based computer
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/870893/en-us

How to troubleshoot unknown devices that are listed in Device Manager in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314464/en-us

General USB troubleshooting in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310575/en-us

AutoPlay intermittently does not detect removable media or digital cameras
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/822660/en-us

FIX: Fast swap of USB devices may cause USB host controller to stop functioning in Windows XP:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/816843/en-us

by hal 9000 Mar 28, 2006

As a lot of those Patches can not be removed once they are installed.

Col

by jibno Mar 30, 2006

The "General USB troubleshooting" document gives this advise:
-------
Remove and reinstall all USB controllers
To remove and reinstall all USB controllers, follow these steps:
1. Click Start, and click Control Panel, and then click Performance and Maintenance.
2. Click System, and then click the Hardware tab.
3. Click the Device Manager button.
4. Expand Universal Serial Bus controllers.
5. Right-click every device under the Universal Serial Bus controllers node, and then click Uninstall to remove them one at a time.
6. Restart the computer, and then reinstall the USB controllers.
7. Plug in the removable USB storage device, and then test to make sure that the issue is resolved.
-------
Sounds easy, but have someone managed to wake up the USB by this method?
By the way, the first time I discovered the USB problem was July 12, 2005, when I installed the Nokia PC Suite. After doing this my cell phone couldn't connect. The USB may have stopped working then or at most a week or so before.

by Former member Mar 28, 2006

Aha ! the old memories of Windows. The stench of rot and blue screen. I had a similar issue with Win98SE on applying a patch (KB891711). a beautiful blue screen of death.

on Windows 98

If you're feeling nostalgic, almost every distro I've tried includes a screensaver called BSOD. I'd use it myself, but animated screensavers are a waste of perfectly good CPU cycles when there's BOINC work units to be chewed.

by animatech Mar 28, 2006

If you think that the problem happened 4 weeks ago then start going backwards. Uninstall all updates one by one and check if working. Maybe you got a HDD that you can install on the affected PC and run a fresh XP install and see if the device is working. Have you done any driver updates, maybe it the motherboard\USB card as you can see there are a lot of avenues to explore before you point your finger.

by hal 9000 Mar 28, 2006

It could however be a Chip Set Specific problem.
Are the affected units all running the same Chip Set M'Board?

As for grabbing a powered USB hub that just shouldn't be an issue I can pick them up wholesale for about $14.00 AU it's worth the small expense if it cures the problem.

We support well over 2K of different computers here all with Intel Chip Set M'Boards and CPU's and haven't run into any problems with this [b]Yet[/b] and all of the units are up to date in the patching. So I would be looking at a Chip Set Specific Problem or a piece of Software that is causing the problem.

But try a Powered USB hub first it just might save you a lot of time and effort as this problem could be linked to some monitoring program on the USB Ports and if the voltage drops to a certain level it shuts then down. It could even be a sign that the PS is being overworked and this is doing this as some form of protection to stop further damage.

But as I said previously I haven't run into this problem so I really don't know.

Col

by jc2it Mar 28, 2006

HAL,
I think you may have struck the nail on the head with that one. I have experienced this on a laptop in the past. Although I have never seen it on a desktop machine. I can understand how this could occur, but why would it start all of a sudden? Could a patch fix a power leak problem with some chipsets and not others?

by hal 9000 Mar 28, 2006

I don't really know but in the past I've experienced enough problems with different Chip Sets never to underestimate the ability to mess things up completely.

The SIS ones that we used to have in NB's where a nightmare to work with I ran into all sorts of problems which just disappeared when we switched to the Centrino Standard.

Col

by caricc135 Mar 28, 2006

One of your first mistakes to think that Microsoft has a HIGH QUALITY anything. In there constant rush to provide an operating system to the public and business' they are riddled with bugs, errors and omissions. This is just another bug or omission that has gotten thru the tangle of Microsoft's web over the usage of the product.

If you were in business for your self and you provided an inferior product such as windows for your clients they would go elsewhere for the product. Here again, since Microsoft is SO BIG that we tend to give them an extra adage of "OH, that's just a Microsoft product?, and think nothing of it.

We as an IT community must hold the big corporations, software vendors, such as Microsoft to the same high standards that we ourselves demand of ourselves and our staff. To do anything less is a disservice to the quality of customer service our customers expect.

by inertman9 Mar 30, 2006

does the soapbox your preaching from help your usb devices to work better? otherwise, why not offer some helpful advice? i order to try to narrow it down some, some people have offered explainations like, i'm using this ver., this device and i had the problem. or i have this version and these devices and never had that problem. as far as i know, soap boxes don't help computers to run better.

Tell that to Richard Stallman. He might disagree with you. Linux as a full-fledged OS would probably not exist today if RMS hadn't climbed up on his soapbox many years ago.

by dawgit Mar 28, 2006

You said what OS you were using (XP-Pro, I believe) but you left out a whole lot more; like the set-up, network, is it in a domain.... ect. And, what type of USB device is giving you problems? Yes it could make a difference! How do you have the settings configured in your control panel? Microsoft did acknowelege a problem with USB Sticks a long time ago. They came up with 'Microsoft USB Flash Drive Manager" downloadable from MS. When WinXP came out we didn't have all these new USB supper drives we have now. (remember XP is almost a 6 year old OS)

by dawgit Mar 28, 2006

Security.!. Why, when we all talk about it, Request it, do I hear complaints when we get it?
USB has been a week point in security since it came out. A really good tool, yes, but with a trade off -security! I/O devices are the #1 security problem. Starting with the keyboard. (that's why we have pass-words silly) The floopy was a problem, but you don't see that used much now. BUT, USB devices, they can rip off computer data in a mili-sec. & there was no way to block them. (I believe Vista will have this funtion) With USB drives hitting 5 GB now it can be a night-mare for a security manager. (in 5 GB is an OS, & room for files) One can go through a computer with-out even opening the OS.

by jc2it Mar 28, 2006

I a 512mb Thumbdrive it would be easy to put many OS. Especially with the on the fly decompression techniques used by live CD's like Knoppix. There is a really cool Linux Live CD called Trinity Rescue Kit that allows you to modifiy files on NTFS without booting to Windows. This is accomplished using a program called captive-ntfs.

Even without captive-ntfs, using linux you can mount the disk, and pull off data that could be valuable.

Of course this requires physical access to the hardware, just like a USB drive. The differance is that MS does not have a say in the matter of security, if it is not the OS that controls the computer.

MS is not the answer to physical security, you must do your due diligence for that.

While the Trinity Resuce Kit is intended for computer repair, any good tool in the hands of a criminal can be used for nefarious purposes.
http://trinityhome.org/trk/

by dawgit Mar 28, 2006

Thanks for that tip. I've been useing R-Linux for a couple of years to do cross-checks and diagnostics. I'll give this a test drive. And you're right it's not the OS, but that has been the problem. It's been way too open, even with the OS in use. with a flopy a disgrunteled soon to be exworker couldn't take much. And with CDs the Computers (as in work stations) simply didn't have burners installed (that you could controll easly) But, with USBs -Ouch!.

by recken Mar 29, 2006

If you have a 5GB or even much smaller USB drive with OS, you don't need Windows's permission to use it.

BTW.. in AD2000&2003, it is possible to create a GPO that is able to stop users from using USB storage devices based on on login account. I have done this before and it works well.

The problems experienced here are likely a driver patch realeased by Microsoft and the "Don't fix it if it isn't broken" policy applies.

by dawgit Mar 30, 2006

GPO, I hadn't thought of that, good tip. That should be in Tech-Rep. Top 10 thingie. Thanks. -d

by peachcobbler Mar 28, 2006

You know I've been suspect of Microsoft's auto downloads for some time since it seems as though each time or there of the updates seem to render some of my programs un-usable after some updates are installed. Now this, since the last update I
have been unable to get my Canoscan Scanner to work.

The error message is asking for something that I've been unable to find nor has the computer been able to find it either. It has to do with a driver that has been working fine for years up until last week after an automatic update.

I'm turning off this automatic update today and I'm going to disable a few other things like the Licensing program in Media Player because it has been rendering music un-playable that I purchased on-line from other Music Download Providers, such as Wal-Mart and Yahoo Music and also some of the music that I copied from my own Cd's into Media Player won't play in Media Player.

I've always hated Microsoft for that very reason, it uses spyware in it's software programs that allows it to take over your computer.

Bill Gates has gotten paranoid and too suspicious of other software developers.I've been suspicious that Microsoft software was spying on me one day when I was unable to shut down IE 6.0 before it finished what it was doing.

It has never been a very stable version, constantly crashing, especially when working through Media Player and some other third party
softwares, like Adobe reader and ZoneAlarm.

by aakash shah Mar 28, 2006

A System Restore in XP may help.

by reconlabtech Mar 29, 2006

That the problem is the SIS chipset. The only XP system I have seen with a USB problem as described in this thread has the SIS chipset. All the other systems I maintain, internally and that I see by support contract are fine with USB 2.0 devices.

by jibno Mar 29, 2006

Count me in under the heading "USB Device not recognised". My two XP SP2 computers show this message, but I manage to access the data through a Win2000 in the network. Please make some noise about this problem until Microsoft produces a fix. Or perhaps the fix is called Vista???

by skydivertak Mar 29, 2006

That's funny. I've had problems with USB the moment I installed XP on my older HP Pavillion. Usually, it happened in conjunction with the built-in USB 1.1 and Parallel port devices. Adding a powered hub helped only a bit.

Everytime we would print or scan using a parallel device, we'd get "USB Device has exceeded the power usage" and the USB devices would stop working.

I got rid of the parallel devices in favour of USB devices, and that seemed to (mostly) get rid of the problem. Once in a while, the USB mouse would simply stop working, so... back to the PS/2 mouse.

Now, I installed a USB 2.0 card, and that seems, for the most part to work, except for an external USB 2.0 hub. When I plug the hub into the USB 1.1 port, it smartly tells me that it can run faster using a USB 2.0 port. When I plug it into the USB 2.0 card, it tells me "Unknown Device". (The USB 2.0 hub works fine on other machines, and other USB 2.0 devices work fine in the USB 2.0 card.)

I have also seen the "Delayed write failed" when using a flash drive, in the USB 2.0 card, but not the USB 1.1 port.

by joconnor9 Mar 29, 2006

I have XP SP2 and ALL the latest patches applied. I have a Maxtor USB2 drive connected to this box and have had no issues at all.

by jallen64 Mar 29, 2006

I have WinXP SP2 will all of the latest patches and I have several items plugged into my computer using USB2 with no issues at all.

by jayoungjr Mar 29, 2006

That "problem" has been around a long time and is usually the natural result of removing a flash memory device before Windows has finished writing to the device.

For occasions when that is not the cause, MS has a hotfix, originally published in 2003 (I think).

Go to http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;328504 for the KB description. You must contact MS support (no charge) and specifically request the hotfix. They'll place the downloadable zip extractor files on a Website and send you the password. download and extract the hotfix, then execute the hotfix.

A Reminder: I've been in IT for 35 years. ALL OSes have both desirable and undesirable "features", and unless anyone has personnaly written an OS of significant capabilities ALONE (yes, I did - in 1977!), then they have no right to badmouth any of them.

by inertman9 Mar 30, 2006

i've seen this and fixed it by changing the properties of write behind caching and quick removal prefs for the device in the device manager. many of you might already know this.

by itoilman Mar 29, 2006

First we thought it was the sp2 upgrade. but it was not. The problem was caused by a device locker leaving our setup screwed up.
Since then we switch to USB Lock RP an had no problems.
http://www.download.com/3000-2653-10510307.html

by ray.gala Mar 29, 2006

And the price tag on USB Lock PR is -- 170 bucks!
Otherwise you can try it for free for 10 days ;)

Don't you think it's too much for a fix?

by itoilman Mar 29, 2006

USB Lock RP is not intended to be a fix.
It is intended to protect or free remotely USB storage drives (flash sticks, I-Pods etc) CD-RW, DVDs, C-ROMs, Floppy in your network WITHOUT screwing your USB setup in the first place (the matter under discussion).
The price tag to control 10 PCs is the mentioned $US 170 (price per license goes down depending on the desired number of machines to control)
There is a personal version USB Lock AP at $US 15 that offers additional stuff.
http://www.download.com/USB-Lock-AP/3000-2092_4-10510290.html
Well,we use a combination of both products on our setup we control al 20 Pcs for US$ 330 (at least we don't think is a bad deal to protect our "visual FX effects" from internal leaks)

by revmarge9 Mar 29, 2006

I have the same problem. I took Uncle Billy's advise and got the powered hub. It did bring things back on line BUT, it still has intermitant episodes of 'device not recognised'. I have found (trial and error) that unplugging the 'missing' device and plugging it back in (hot), usually gets it back on line. However, this is not a permanent fix and is a royal pain in the knee. Ok, I flunked anatomy. The self-proclaimed wizards at MicroSoft need to get this fixed, preferably without screwing something else up.

by rgeiken9 Mar 29, 2006

I have had really good luck with USB 2.0 devices previously, but when I tried to incorporate my new Sandisk Micro Cruzer, my system has been unable to recognize it. It works on other Windows XP systems. There is not a driver available for Windows XP, so if it doesn't work, you are out of luck. I have two other USB Flash drives that work Correctly besides having a USB 2 Printer, an external hard drive, and a DVD/CD writer. The only USB 2 device that doesn't work is the Sandisk Cruzer. I keep trying it from time to time to see if Microsoft has been able to resolve the problem. They corrected a problem with the icons coming and going in the task bar previously. Microsoft did not admit that any of their fixes solved this problem, but one of them did.

Eventually they do solve these types of problems, but seems they will have you "chasing your tail" trying solutions that probably won't work while they find the solutions back at Redmond.

Hopefully Windows Vista will resolve a lot of the outstanding problems. That seems to be the way they work, correct the problems in a new O/S and not the old version so they can encourage you to upgrade to the new O/S.

by dave 628 Mar 29, 2006

An editor for a well-known PC mag wrote an article in which he mentioned Sandisk Cruzer drives dying without any previous indication of problems; one he personally owned did this, and he said he would not purchase another (even though this mag had given it an "Editor's Choice Award").
My 3 home PC's are all home built and fully patched; I've not experienced any USB 2.0 slowdowns. We've used a mix of differnt camera's, MP3 players, external hard drives, and thumb drives (except Sandisk Cruzer--we don't own any). I've schooled the entire family about using the "Safely Remove Hardware" icon in the system tray before disconnecting any USB devices. So far, so good.

by dodgeviper Mar 30, 2006

rgeiken, you are right. the way it works is that any problems that are picked up in any "new" release, be it a patch or a new security update, they will prefer to handle that issue in a totaly new release of the o/s.

by jmgarvin Mar 29, 2006

Rather than use an efficent OS that gives you a better ROI and has a lower TCO, stick with MS OSes.

As for the "attacks:" It's simple to stop the FUD. Too many people post incorrect or insane statements that have NOTHING to do with what OS A can or cannot do. The only way to stop the FUD is to attack it outright. The Linux folks have tried to diplomacy, now it is something along the lines of: "No, you are wrong, it works this way." If that is an attack, then you are thin skinned.

by totalnontech Mar 29, 2006

My loss... I'll lose the "attitude"... too bad for me.

For me, Linux would not be an efficient OS nor would it be a better ROI, since it is not something the average person on the street, such as myself, can "pick up and run with", in its current form.

Unfortunately, until that happens, it will always take a backseat to Windows. I'm certain Windows is far from an idea1 OS, but I can nonetheless get "stuff" done. I personally love MacOS, but unfortunately, for my industry, there is too much software that is Windows-only... there are no Mac products (rather specialized stuff).

Has superior technology ever lost out to inferior technology because the average Joe is an idiot? Absolutely!

I just don't see the average person being won over by such attacks. Within the past week, I've started playing around with a Linspire CD that came with a magazine I purchased. It was interesting to play with, but I couldn't figure out how to get anything useful done, and I'm a little more computer-savvy than your average person on the street.

It is my firm belief that if you come across with a "your wrong!" attitude, people may stereotype you as a person who would not likely be helpful in a time of need. Here's a guy with what sounds like a serious problem in his life, and all some people do is kick dirt in his face. Are those really the values the Linux community supports?

In my profession, we try to assist people with their problems and put forth an effort not to be too judgmental about the cause of their problem. If you have lung cancer, do you REALLY want the healthcare profession to said "Too bad sucker! Guess you shouldn't have smoked all those cigarettes!! Ha ha ha!!"?

I think the thin-skinned ones were the ones who took things TheYoungOne said out-of-context and tried to pretend it was somehow an attack on Linux. Granted, he could have phrased the title a little better. But is the way he was treated polite and courteous? If the Linux community feels this is proper behavior, I'd be afraid to ask them the first question about Linux.

I'm the type person you need to win over... someone looking for a better way to do things whose life is not so intimately tied to Windows. Ask yourself this question: Is TotalNonTech more or less likely to play around with Linspire after reading these posts? I'm sure several of you will say "Who cares?", but you had better care. I'm a proud member of the idiot masses that determines whether anything will become economically viable.

Was my mother the only one who used to say "You catch more flies with sugar than with vinegar"?

by jmgarvin Mar 29, 2006

If you choose to be more productive, secure, and free, than choose Linux.

As for Mac OS, it is based on BSD Unix, so you should have little trouble with the transition from Unix to Linux.

As for the too bad sucker, why not take a look at my blog for the "here have some FREE information". Also a quick search of the web will provide you with a plethora of free resources. I'll bet dimes to dollars that if you post a Linux questions in the discussions or Tech Q&A, then you'll not only get civil answers, but a quick response from the VERY helpful Linux community here on Tech Republic.

I'm here to help and I usually do. However, the FUD gets my back up and I've had enough of it. The less FUD the better. Just because MS borks it, uses their own standards, or doesn't support it, doesn't mean it will die....I mean look at Apache.

by hal 9000 Mar 29, 2006

I could walk into a news agency and buy a copy of Red Hat Linux that came with 7 Cd's and a destruction manual for the grand sum of $35.00 AU.

It was a complete OS and Software System that was simple to install and even simpler to use and it actually had a decent Instruction Manual as well. It has well over 250 Pages of information unlike the OEM XP Pro books that have a few sheets of paper in them with a bit of cardboard to stop them bending.

Yes Windows has got better since then but so has Linux you just need to find a decent supplier who's going to help you. Personally I'm feed up with MS attitude expecting me to pay an annual subscription to be a MS Certified Partner and then pay for Product Problems and on every occasion they haven't been able to sort out the problem so I'm left holding the baby and end up ringing them back up with a solution when I find one.

Now I have a different contact line for MS Support and the treatment that I get from them is really terrible I just shudder to think what Joe Public gets.

Col

by reiki33 Mar 30, 2006

What is it that you do with legal and medical that has only Windows solutions? Curious, as a multivalue database/application environment (UniVerse) that I have worked in for 17 years has a plethora of applications. Many of these exist in the legal and medical fields. This environment is Windows and *NIX agnostic.

by aaron a baker Mar 29, 2006

Perhaps I'm being naive here but it seems to me that yet again, some of us are purposely misinterpreting the intent or importance of the question.
This is about whether or not we can do without USB2.0 more to the point, why and how has it become moribund?
This isn't about my house is bigger than yours, or if your were using "Linux..."Please"" you wouldn't have these problem and all the other platitudes that we've managed so far to throw in at this poor guy.
It's about Microsoft's, usual approach or lack of it, to a problem in this case being the USB 2.0.
The man asks for help and what does he get?, insults, beratement," you should have phrased your question this way or hat way etc. If he had wanted a course in English, I'm sure that there are far better places that here to get this education than here.
Folks, let's face it, we seem to have gotten pretty darned good at knocking the hell out of someone for he slightest and dumbest of reasons and offer no words of advice or help. Hell, we're not even kind or conciliatory.
What's happened to us.? Can we no longer be civilized in our approach? I know NOTHING of Linux, but if a member asks a question, then I would look it up to see if I could help in any way at all, however small. That's called fellowship.
We were asked for help and advice and this is what we give back?
I'm surprised people, I had always tought we were much better and far more intelligent and tolerant than this.
As for the USB 2.0, I haven't used it but will now definitely look into it, perhaps I can help, which is after all, what we are here for yes. ;)
At least , last time I looked. ;)
Regards
Aaron :)

Why is it, when someone posts something that assumes the whole world runs on Microsoft, it's okay, but when someone (like me) points out that that isn't the case, we're called a "purist"? Isn't acting like no one else exists a bit chavinistic?

If you think my posts are bad, you should see me lay into some of the managers here. I've been pretty civil throughout this entire discussion. Then again, I grew up on Usenet, so I have a thick skin. I can't be held responsible if someone can't handle a nice little correction and goes nuts on me.

If you want to go through some of my old posts, you'll see that I do help out when questions are asked. The first post in this whole discussion wasn't a question, though. It was basically "Microsoft broke USB and now no one will ever use USB again," to which I responded basically "Umm, there's quite a few people out here who don't use Microsoft. Just thought you might like to know." If you can't handle a post that innocuous, you should join #barney_and_friends on IRC and ask your question there.

by inertman9 Mar 30, 2006

since i don't think usb 2 is on the way out ( my latest mb purchase has 2 firewire and 8 usb ports, just in case), and i have 2 other machines all running xp pro sp2 or mce sp2 or 64-bit or win2k all patched and up to date, i think you need to be looking at the machines that are having the problem and trying to find the common denominator. i use several different usb devices ranging from i/o to a powered hub and various storage, including a usb to ide adapter and my cell phone, none of which have the problems you're having. as i read this thread, the most reported failure by name is the sandisk cruizer. is it posible that you have a sandisk issue, or maybe some other brand specific device in ll of the units that might be giving you the headache? it might seem trite, but to suggest that bill & friends have controll over the rest of the usb world is silly when i don't think they actually manufacture any usb devices (as in i think they have them made) and everybody ad their brother does. also, microsoft has stated that there is a usb bug in sp2. however, they state that it has to do w/ acpi and mostly affects intel laptopsby drawing too much power (did someone here mention power usage?). i would not suppose that those are the only casualties, if i was having this problem, and might try disabling my advanced power settings to see if that has any relation.

by rgeiken9 Mar 30, 2006

I have tried the Sandisk Micro Cruzer in every USB port in my computer, and it won't work. When I plug it into a USB 1 hub, it tells me that I should plug it into a USB 2 hub to take advantage of the faster speed, but when I do, it won't recognize it. Microsoft has control of this situation, and it is up to them to find a way to allow recognition of all USB 2 devices. Maybe they need tighter spec controls. The Device does work in other Windows XP computers, so I know the device is OK. Oh well, maybe they will fix the problem in the next security upgrade.

I tried the Sandisk web site, but no help there. You can't even get e-mail support there. No more Sandisk products for me. I got it as a gift, so I can always give it away, or wait for Windows Vista!!!! Ha! Ha!

by edgeek Mar 30, 2006

I just spent an hour trying to get a student's usb drive to work on a Dell Optiplex GX260 desktop pc. then I tried another one, both would pop up the green "safely remove hardware" icon in the system tray, but would never show up in Windows Explorer. I tried different ports, I checked the device manager - nothing. Then I tried an old 64MB usb 1.0 drive, it worked. I tried a 4th drive, a new Sandisk Cruzer mini 1 gig drive and it worked. But the 2 others never did, even though they had both worked previously.

by rgeiken9 Mar 30, 2006

Getting a USB device to work in Windows XP is sort of like playing LOTTO!!!! Your chance of winning is slim, but you have to try!!!!

by louf_59 Mar 30, 2006

I have the same thing happening to me. When my iPod failed to update and I had to unplug it without properly closing the device. After that, when I plugged in the iPod the 'USB Device not recognized' message came up. The only solution was to shut down windows and unplug the PC from the electrical outlet and then restart. This is definately a Windows issue... hopefully MS will fix it soon.

Amazing how "professionals" on this website automatically assume and blame everything on MS.

Do you job, investigate the problem. I have read several great suggestions in this post.

Back off the caffeine, get some sleep tonight, and actually do your job for once.

Did you miss the memo?

Apparently I did miss the memo.

Funny how my 100+ systems are fully patched and I haven't experienced any USB issues.

Leads one to believe MS didn't do a damn thing.

If opinions are like buttholes, apparently most TR members have multiple buttholes.

Unfortunately, some of those confuse which one to use and which one to think out of.

by pickleman Mar 30, 2006

> Windows isn't the only operating system in the
> world, but your post acts like it is. If that's
> being a purist, then call me "yellow snow".

Windows may not be the only operating system in the world, but when it's being used on 95% of all computers, it might as well be the only one.

The break down works like this:

Servers
50% *nix
50% MS

Desktops
90% MS
10% *nix

Your 95% number is quite high. Also consider that China (as a nation) is using Linux rather than MS (since MS dropped the ball).

Linux users are estimated to be between 25-50 million and with the chinese add about 2 billion to that number.

Futher, as corporations and government pull away from MS, that number will drop significantly. Don't forget the city of Munich is going to be the example of how to migrate.

by poink17 Mar 30, 2006

To start I thought this was a post about USB 2.0 not an argument about who's OS is better, but to relate to the last post, there may be 2 Billion people in China, but less then 50 million own computers. Be realistic if you are going to try to make a statement. Just because everyone owns a computer where you live, doesn't mean the rest of the world has it that good. The majority of the world doesn't have it that good.

by awfeckit2 Mar 31, 2006

I doubt very much that everyone in china owns a computer.

Also doubt that all computer users in China use Linux.

And this whole tangental discussion is beside the point anyway, started by someone who felt the need to offer an opinion, but had nothing much to say about the main topic.

by comp1systems Mar 30, 2006

Sounds to me Microsoft is at it again. I am so glad I read
this. I need to pass this on to all of my friends, family and
clients to let them know so in case they've downloaded any
updates and suddenly certain USB devices are not working,
that this is the reason.

I think it's another way for them to get you to spend
unnecessary money. And if this is the case that the
problem originated from them, I do not see them coming
clean about it unless several people get together and write
them explaining the major problems the patch has caused.

As much as I like Microsoft and some of the products, they
are in fact the bullies of the technology industry. Able to
throw their weight around so as long as know steps on
their toes and bring them to a halt.

I can understand why you would be upset. I would be upset,
too.

If you were my admin.

There is such a complete lack of skills in this industry anymore, I'm about to vomit.

Where is the critical, objective, non-bias thinking?

Thanks for joining the bandwagon!

You want a secure PC? Join my domain. Years of experience, no majority incidents.

It's not that hard. Perhaps your degree from xxx Tech isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Try getting a business degree, multiple certs, years of experience, and valuable hands on, real world guts.

It's not that hard people. MS environments are quite simple to secure. Blaming MS for your lack of skills is pathetic.

Pass the buck, it's the American way!

Would you like me to pay you a visit and show you where some potential problems exist?

Granted I'm not into Hacking but I do break things quite often to tighten up security and even then I don't expect to have a secure network.

Col

"Pass the buck, it's the American way!"

That's so close to being correct. It should have been "Put your head in the sand and act like the problem doesn't exist; it's the Microsoft way!"

Microsoft is kind of like the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal: if you wrap a towel around your head so you can't see any security flaws, then there must not be any. You seem to share that philosophy.

Don't blame the inheriently insecure Windows architecture. Don't blame the integration of an insecure applicaiton (IE) into the OS. Don't blame the mudging of kernel and user space. Don't blame the mess that is the registry.

10 to 1 I'll find multiple holes in your system. I'll bet I have system access within minutes of fulling understanding your layout. MS OSes are not secure. They don't come with proper firewalls and they don't come with proper security.

For REAL security check out SELinux and how that works. The NSA approves.

"Just because MS borks it, uses their own standards, or doesn't support it, doesn't mean it will die....I mean look at Apache."

This was the point of my post. The Young One's first post assumed that since M$ broke something, it was dead. I kindly reminded him that there are millions of us out there who don't suck on the M$ teat, since he took it for granted that we don't exist. Some people don't take correction well, so he started with the namecalling. Being called newbie by this guy was quite a laugh--I was bashing out 6510 assembler before he was born.

Here's a non-Microsoft example. Once upon a time, IBM was a juggernaut. It was bigger than all other computer companies of the time COMBINED. (Seriously, look it up.) Even M$ can't claim this today. Anyway, IBM came out with a little "improvement" to the PC bus. Naturally, since this was IBM, it automatically meant that it was adopted, right?

Wrong. In the hundreds of computers I've worked on in the last 23 years, I've never actually seen one of these slots in real life. In order not to spoil your fun, I'll give you a chance to think about the answer, and then I'll post the correct answer in a reply to this post.

MicroChannel Architecture.

Raise your hand if you've ever seen an MCA slot in real life. Err.. Well... that wasn't a whole lot of hands. Let's do an easier one: raise your hand if you knew MCA wasn't just the name of a record company. Oh, wait, I think I see one hand raised. Thanks for your participation, Mr. Heath. Anyone else?

I kinda recollect something about the PS/2 and the "new MCA speed improvments!" I can't recall ever seeing MCA (save for a textbook or two).

You have to wonder...

On that note: Why do people keep saying firewire will replace USB? Firewire isn't powered, USB is! They aren't the same!

Then explain why only MS machines are borked by this patch from MS...Oh wait...THAT'S BECAUSE THE PATCH FROM BORKS THE MS OS.

BTW, I think you might want to contact Dr. Freud...He'd be pretty interested in you.

If a patch hoses someone's PC but not everyone's PC, it's the patch?

It's not the admin of those PC's? It's not what is already installed on those PC's?

Explain why thousands, millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions of people across the global are not experiencing the same problems.

Before one starts throwing out wild theories of what caused what, I'd prefer to see some proof.

Being a professional, I don't go throwing around theories until I have proven them. Blaming MS on this one is nothing but pure laziness.

Get real.

MS provides a Security Patch and then if you are bothered they also provide a Security newsletter telling everyone interested enough what the latest round of patches has fixed what the problem was and why you should apply the patch.

Now granted you don't have to actually install these patches but if you don't you run the risk of some [b]Script Kiddy[/b] reading the MS e-mail and then writing some code to take advantage of any unpatched computers on the net. At the same time MS tells the hardware vendors what their standards are and they make the hardware to suit those standards. If MS then alters the [b]"Standard'[/b] who can you blame?

With every USB device that I've ever bought they come with drivers for different Windows system except XP where they are just supposed to plug & play. After all wasn't that the entire idea behind USB in the first place?

I for a fact know that the Marketing side of MS was pushing this way back in the 98SE days at trade shows long before we even saw any USB devices but the MS presenter had something cute to show off. That was the very first USB device that I ever saw and even then it didn't have a shielded lead so the guy standing close to the stage with his Cell switched on took it out as well. That was Windows not the USB device as the entire large screens just BSOD out.

If MS sets the standard and then insists that Vendors follow it and then change the Standard and do not provide a Patch, Solution or workaround [b]who else is to blame?[/b]

Granted in this discussion currently this issue only appears to be affecting some brands and types of devices but that doesn't mean that will always be the case and with all the USB hardware now available and generally the only type available now that the SCSI, Com and Parallel versions have gone by by it's a serious problem that I just don't want to even have to think about right now. On the computer that I built yesterday except for the Keyboard Mouse which I'm running off the PS2 ports instead of a USB port, Video, sound and the mains lead everything outside the case is USB ranging from scanners/printers upward these are basic items that have to work as there is no option to hanging them to a different Interface type. Actually on the latest Intel Chip Set M'Boards there interfaces no longer exist.

Col

by ray.gala Mar 30, 2006

Microsoft's AutoPlay fix worked for me for free ;)

All you have to do is go to MS Download and search for Autofix.exe

We're back in business :)

Currently it is outstripping India for Out Sourcing jobs it's no longer a country that has presents doing subsistence farming and a few High Tech sectors that are in the minority.

Currently the Chinese Government is behind the push to Open Source and expects all of its State Controlled Industries to do as they are told which they are.

But just to keep things sensible can you imagine the Chinese Nuclear Arsenal being controlled by Windows Based computers? If that was the case the West Coast of America would now be uninhabitable because of a computer malfunction.

And if I remember correctly MS is responsible for this as they refused to sell to China in the beginning so China had to look elsewhere for something to do the same thing and they found Open Source which there very quickly realized was far superior to Windows so by sticking blindly to your Windows Systems you are committing Treason to your country and allowing it to fall behind in the technology stakes. :p

Col