Why do we type this way?

I got good at touch typing on dvorak keyboard. Had program for my PC that swaps the key values to a dvorak keyboard. I'm sure it's still available.

Thing is, gets confusing if you switch, so unless everyone switches is kind of pointless. I type real fast on a regular keyboard, so not much point.

I can think of three reasons we're still using qwerty:

1. We're in the habit of using qwerty, and changing such habits is difficult -- especially when some of us already type 100+ wpm on a qwerty keyboard.

2. It would involve a huge aggregate cost to switch everyone to Dvorak -- both a financial cost and an opportunity cost. Of course, that's not much of a good reason, since it's a temporary cost in exchange for a long-term, ongoing benefit. It does present a tremendous conceptual hurdle for people to overcome for migration, however.

3. Different languages are better suited to different keyboard layouts. The English language is best suited to the Dvorak layout. Other languages are best suited to a qwerty layout -- and by "other languages", in my personal experience, I mean languages like Perl and C/C++.

Besides changing just the US keyboard standard,
the whole world would have to change, and what
do you think the chances of that are???
The TI Speak and Spell toy had an alphabetic
keyboard, quite hard to get used to, so as
would just about any other layout. Yes, the
letters were rearanged to prevent the old
typewriters from jamming, but as is known,
that is a long lost technology now.
Take a good look at the keys on a calculator,
and then at your phone. Think you have
trouble, try dialing a phone after spending
all day on a 10 key. There are loads of
utility programs that will allow you to remap
the keyboard to any configuration you desire,
the gamers have tackled that problem long ago.
There also keyboards that fold and such, to
try and put your hands in more desirable
positions in an attempt to negate the carpal
tunnel problem, but they seldom really help,
they just move the problem from the wrist to
the elbow or forearm. An alpha wave interface
could solve all that, you just think about the
word and it appears on the screen.

I've been on Dvorak since 1999 when Qwerty starting making my right hand ache. I made the switch and the pain is much better now.

I found a page by a guy named Jeff Bigler. He compiled a large list of links and resources for people to learn about and switch to Dvorak. Jeff's page hasn't been updated for easily switching the WinXP keymap, so here's the best page right now: http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak/

The page has links on how to switch the keymap in popular operating systems and a link to a free on-line typing tutor(ABCD: A Basic Course in Dvorak) that makes it fun and easy. The thing you notice INSTANTLY about the Dvorak keymap is how many words and actual sentences can be spelled on the home row; and you can feel good about your progress very quickly. Give it two weeks of daily practice through the typing tutor and you'll have your old speed back.

I wouldn't take a job that required me to type on Qwerty all day long. As a travelling computer consultant, it's not an all-day thing and I deal with it. But when at home, I'm on Dvorak and I love it. :)

Don't take my typing speed of 70-80wpm as the theoretical limit of Dvorak. There is a lady clocked at 212 wpm on Dvorak in the Guiness Book of World records. The highest I've seen is 170 on a Qwerty board.

BUT, as we can get lost in the significance of highest peed and what not, we should remember that Dvorak was tailored to the English language. This means that there is less finger travel to type letters. The two most common letters in the English language are T and E. And on the Dvorak keymap they are placed on the home row beneath your two strongest fingers; your middle finger. The rest of the letters correspond according to that same rule.

Lowering the finger traffic on a keyboard and reducing one-handed words increases typing speed. Give it a shot. Type out these one-handed Qwerty words: Reverberate and Opinion. Next, try them on Dvorak. You'll notice the forced alternation between hands and after typing on Dvorak you'll appreciate how much of a traffic reduction there is.

the amount of time and energy spent on teaching both styles. If you give the kids the ability to do either one, then later in the professinal world they can either choose based on their personal preferences or by their choice of profession.

I could see employers in the future changing companies over to Dvorak for efficiency and lowered injury risks. As well, professions that work best with one or the other style, could cause that particular style to be standard for that profession.

For me, I'd best not switch to a Dvorak keyboard although I may try to learn it again in my spare time-(ha...what's that?). It'd just end up causing chaos in the office!
Tink

Something I find even more stunning than the rarity of touch-typists is how often people will look at me funny when I say "touch-type" because they don't know what it means. For most people, it's "Do you know how to type?" and not "Do you know how to touch-type?" Well, duh, anyone that can hunt-and-peck technically knows how to "type", but they don't know how to "touch-type". I wonder if Mavis Beacon is to blame for the conflation of terms.

By the way, I'm a number-row typist because I'm used to laptops and don't like moving my hands far enough away from home row to screw with the number pad. I don't think my average typing speed (errors and all) has dropped below about 85wpm for the last decade, give or take, and I've been known to type at more than 100wpm. I probably would have been helpful in Alan's shop when the power went out.

There were NO computers in schools/homes back then (I'm 'aging' myself, here :D )

I learned in the 10th grade on MANUAL typewriters withOUT letters on the keys!!!!!

Now it's been long enough since I've used a typewriter that I don't even know my WPM by the old typewriter standards. But I DO know that I can 'keyboard' at 35 WPM by the NEW system of speed measurement. I attribute that speed to IMing and (here I go again: telling on myself) going into the fast moving Message Boards in Yahoo News. :D

I've learned programming on so many different
keyboards--Used so many wacko multiple key-
strokes-- Any the throw in the nutty symbols.
I can't touch type unless I want to spend
an equal amount of time debugging the lines
I've written.

Hi, just thinking about this. Isn't the future Great?

Alpha Wave sounds nice provided it includes some artificial intelligence based on the user profile, that is; the software learns what you would want to say in context with what you are doing and for example - ask before sending that e-mail, or high-lighting the section that appears to deviate from the context of the message and prompt a mental 'back-on-track' command.

Teaching any keymap I would think, is going to include a basic flaw in that every task should be attempted with a limited amount of flexibility.

The children should be taught how to re-map their keyboards to accomodate special needs or specific tasks. They should learn how to be flexible, and so be able to find their own solutions in a changing future.

And there should be more keyboards like this one: http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/

Now to attack my key-board with screw-driver and savage abandon!

This looks pretty neat.

http://wearables.blu.org/keyglove.html

I've been thinking about this a bit. One of the big selling-points of the Dvorak keyboard is the supposed typing speed increase that people claim inevitably follows familiarity with the new keymap. I'm not so sure that typing speed is entirely due to the rearranged keys, though.

People use the sigils on the keys as a crutch. Even touch-typists do so: they "cheat", glancing at the keyboard every now and then to ensure that they're finding the correct keys with their fingers while they type. Being forced to ignore the keyboard entirely, only looking at the screen and/or any copy that is being entered, or even at nothing at all, impels one to learn the layout of the keys better so that the use of the keyboard becomes more intuitive and automatic -- which, of course, lends to greater typing speeds.

This is amply demonstrated by the simple fact that users of Das Keyboard, a keyboard designed specifically for people who are too cool for normal keyboards, also tend to find themselves typing faster once they've gotten used to it. The increase in typing speed may not be quite as significant, and Dvorak may indeed help increase typing speeds slightly just by virtue of the differing keyboard layout, but I think that part of the reason for the reported increases in typing speed must be simply due to the fact that many users of a Dvorak keymap are only changing the keymap for their current, qwerty-layout keyboard, which forces them to ignore the sigils on the keys.

Another reason for a perceived increase could, of course, simply be the fact that people who've switched to Dvorak probably spend more time practicing typing speed. After all, if you're interested in comparing typing speeds, you're going to spend a lot of time with typing speed software that will tell you how fast you're typing. It's a bit like Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, which states that you cannot know both the velocity and location of a given particle simultaneously: in this case, the very act of monitoring your typing speed affects that typing speed.

I wonder what sort of clinical trials might produce useful results. I suspect they'd have to start with blank keyboards and people who have never used a keyboard before. That'd be pretty difficult to arrange.

By the way, here's a link to more information about Das Keyboard (which is far cooler than I've made it sound):

http://www.daskeyboard.com/

I learned in the 11th grade on the old Selectric typewriter. At home we had a manual. I was typing 75-80 wpm on the Selectric. I've never timed myself on a computer but I'm quite confident I can still hold my own.

Number pad: I go between a laptop and desktop so I use both. I definitely use the number pad on a desktop. It's much faster for me.

I too can't believe how few of us seem to be left.

I need to look at my keyboard, but seem to "know" where the keys are, though I often hit the key next to the one I want.
I don;t know my speed.

You could go one of two directions to solve that:

1. Get the Optimus keyboard. This is the one that would probably make you happier:
http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/

2. Get Das Keyboard. This is the one that would definitely make me happier:
http://www.daskeyboard.com/

Haven't read the comments and it's probably been said, but...

I doubt I could ever conver to Dvorak. Why? Because "Typing Taxi" taught me to use Qwerty. If it really is better for preventing CTS then I'm all for it ... BUT it should be phased in so that children now can learn it while us old f**ks can still use Qwerty. Really ... I already have CTS from typing, so why bother switching now? On the other hand ... while I don't have children, I'd rather my nephew (4 yrs old) not have to deal with the pain I deal with.

I would tend to agree with Apotheon on this point. It seems nearly impossible and at best, highly unlikely that any major corporation will make a push to move to DVORAK. Besides, if you've ever been to any other country other than USA and Canada, you'll notice that all of them have a variation. Not all ar e sitting right there on a stock qwerty layout. Just for instance, both German and Spanish keyboards deviate from pure qwerty to make the keyboard more appropriate for their languages.

North America at large has a very narrow mindset. Americans tend to think that they are the only ones that exist, and have a "Well...Surely everyone else speaks english too" mindset. In my experience, switching keyboard layouts is no more difficult that speaking another language. If you're multi-lingual, you will definitely understand what I mean.

My solution has always been to encourage as many different layouts as possible, but only learn one at a time to avoid confusion. Once you have one under your belt, its no more hard to type in that layout than it is to speak in another language, and certainly once you get used to switching back and forth, it gets even easier. Problem is that statistacally speaking, roughly 80% of Americans only speak English, and when you head near the ghetto (aka Da' Hood), they barely speak english. I suppose if you count all of the illegal aliens that are doing the farm work, that could bring up the stats on the "Other than English" category.

Anycase, my solution has been (and Apotheon listen up) use a key remapper for your given operating system (XKB is my prefence, or MS Keyboard Layout Creator on Windows) and create/use a custom keymap for particular jobs. Qwerty and Dvorak both stink compared to making a custom layout for any give programming language, where you can control right where you want any particular character. I use an optimised keyboard layout for PHP/Javascript/HTML, and standard Qwerty for most typing tasks, and a different layout when I am working in spreadsheets.

I think there should be as many key layouts as there are languages (both Spoken and Programming). My wrists hurt just thinking about programming using a qwerty layout.

I think you should take a look at my profile. That will explain to you my 'ignorance' you so succinctly exposed!

BTW: I'm still not all that impressed with all these newfangled gadgets manufacturers are adding to their products just so they can jack up the co$t of the things. Keyboards are only one item of my peeves. Don't EVEN get me started on Cell Phones! ;)

Consider, for starters, how many of us here alone began "keyboarding" decades ago on a QUERTY typewriter.

Now, extrapolate to the population as a whole.

Then, add a fudge factor for those who still use a typewriter rather than a computer & printer.

'Nuff said?

Fact is, nothing is faster for text entry than the bulky old
keyboard. No matter how fast your thumbs go, you can't text on
your cell phone or PDA, or even MS's new pad (which is just a
tiny evolution of thumbpads, merely a refinement of a horrible
layout) even 1/4 as fast as you can type on a full keyboard. And
voice recognition, whenever it finally gets good, still won't be
good enough to oust the keyboard for several reasons.

One big reason is homophones. There, They're, their. Cereal,
serial. What's a program to do? So. Full-size keyboards are with
us to stay for some time.

Switching from Qwerty to the Dvorak keyboard layout in middle-
school keyboarding classes would improve typing speed and
accuracy, and reduce long-term RSI later, in the workplace. It
seems stupid that this hasn't occurred already, but this is
America, and I stopped being shocked by the stupid things we
do here long ago.

But there's something else we need to do. Change the keyboards
themselves. Several companies have tried to market "ergonomic"
keyboards in the past, with little success. These are supposed to
relieve hand stress by allowing the hands to rest naturally while
typing. Except none of them do that.

Look at the keyboard you're now using. It's low in the front by
the spacebar, higher in the back by the numbers and function
keys. and Probably there are little feet or tabs on the bottom to
FURTHER raise the top/back side, increasing the angle - in
exactly the wrong direction.

For typing speed and comfort, you need two things: 1) sit higher
(or lower the keyboard, in an under-the-desk keyboard tray) and
2) tilt the top of the keyboard DOWN, not up. Wrists should be
LOWER than the elbows, and the palms and fingers should angle
DOWN to the keys. If you rest your fingers on the keyboard, then
remove the keyboard, your hands should be a natural, relaxed,
comfortable position.

Nobody outside of a few offices does this, and it's yet another
stupid thing I'm no longer shocked by. Try it once. Feels great.
You can type fast, all day. Add the Dvorak layout in there, and
you're golden. No stress injuries, faster typing, fewer typos. Try
it.

Your logic is good, but your assumptions are wrong.

I know of no programming language that was designed around the qwerty keymap, or any keymap. All the major languages were designed around symbols (in the sense that a word is a symbol to parse), and the symbols were based on the language of the inventors. In other words, K&R based C on English, Wirth based Pascal on English, Kemeny and Kurtz based BASIC on English, Wall based Perl on English, etc.

The use of many different types of non-letter characters - such as braces, dots, etc., is a function of the need to clarify the parsing of symbols for the computers to read the computer language. To that end, all those braces, etc., are adjuncts which are littered around the letters.

While XPerT or Dvorak layouts won't help much for the aspects of a programming languages which use those adjunct characters, most of the language uses letters, and the letters are a function of the command words which are in English, so you'll get some assistance from an alternate layout, and likely little or no harm.

The real downside to the alternate layouts (which I'm considering right now), is that control combination will move. For example, Ctrl-C has long been used in many interfaces for "copy" (because of the "c" in "copy")and Ctrl-X is standard for "Cut" (from the editors mark to strike something; you X it out.) For convenience, the adjacent Ctrl-V has become standard for "Paste."

In an alternate layout, these keys are no longer logically adjacent. Other commonly-used shortcuts can likewise be moved - and a shortcut which is common can be on a letter that is used infrequently, causing it to move to a worse location, not a better one.

But I realize that I type letters for the sake of letters far more often these days - back when using complex text editors I might have argued otherwise, but these days, text is the vast majority of my keystrokes.

If I were still a gamer, I might complain about the need to constantly remap game key default layouts, too... but I've no time for games any more. :(