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Windows Small Business Server 2003 - Raid Choice?

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by mellow52

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I am setting up my first file/printer server using SBS 2003.

I have a HP ML370 G4 Proliant server with:
2x 36 Gig drives
6x 74 Gig drives

Controller = Smart Array 6400 SCSI

What Raid path would you take and partition/volume sizes with the above given drives?

OS partition
App partition
Data partition

Also my box has 8gig ram, SBS max is 4gig so now what? Pull 4gig?

Thanks for any recommendations!

-mellow

9 replies

by mellow52

No Help for a noob. Common guys throw me a frikken bone here.

Thanks!

by churdoo

Speaking only for myself, since SBS is so wizard-ized, I give my SBS setups 2 volumes, the system/Apps as one on RAID1, and the data on the other volume on RAID5 disk.

Your Server can hold and address all 8 drives on its RAID controller? A couple years ago, I would've said to use your 36-giggers in a RAID1 for the system/apps volume, but today I'm leaning toward telling you to nix the 36-giggers and just stick with a pair of the 72GB for the system/apps RAID1. I would then use the remaining 4x 72GB in a RAID5 for all if the dynamic data of SBS if I needed the effective 200GB for capacity. If I didn't think we would need all 200GB but could get away with 130GB, then I'd make a 3x 72GB RAID5 and put the last 72GB on the RAID bus as a hot spare.

My reasoning for nix'ing the 36GB is three-fold.
1) systems only get fatter, and although 36GB is enough today for SBS 2K3 as long as you're careful during the setup wizard to redirect all dynamic data, i.e. the exchange infostore, company data, user data, SQL server data (if you're using SBS Premium with SQL Server?), you never know what you may want to stuff on the system volume tomorrow so I'm beginning to make those larger than 36GB;
2) I'm concerned with the heat buildup of having 8x drives in the system, depending on the case design, drive spacing, and cooling;
3) 36GB drives will only get harder and harder to find replacements should you need to in the future, plus the pricing is such that you get better GB for the buck going to the 72GB and up. I'm using 72GB as the smallest hard drive I'll spec for a new server today.

Another possibility depending on your RAID controller, is that you can make a JBOD of all 6x 72GB disks, and create a RAID1+0 of whatever size you want (40GB, 50GB, whatever) for your system volume, and dedicate the remaining capacity as your RAID5. This gives you greater flexibility than being limited to whole disk increments with your system volume, and is another advantage to eliminating the 36GB drives.

One last thought re: the 36-giggers. If you're required to utilize the 36GB drives but don't want to be limited to a 36GB system volume, then you can create a RAID1 volume on the 36GB drives and use it for your swap file, TEMP directory, exchange logs, and/or SQL Server logs as these will all perform better on RAID1 but don't need to be taking up precious system volume capacity.

My two cents, understanding that may be all it's worth.

by mellow52

... and it is intelligent! Churdoo thanks much for your insight. I was thinking along the same lines but never thought of tossing the 36'ers or any of the valid points made in doing so.

The question I have is that according to my HP Smart Start (yes wizard) the Max partition supported by SBS is 280526 so why toss the 36'ers and not RAID 1+0 them for that, just the OS. Then RAID 5 the 5x 74 gigers and keep one hot spare? Yes all drives are on the one RAID controller.

The HP ML370 G4 Proliant in rack configuration has excellent cooling and enough fans to dim the neighborhood when powered.

No SQL server per say for now. I will be installing MS Accounting 2007 that installs its own SQL 2005. Does that count?

Why the 4 gig ram limitation for SBS? (short answer please) I have 8 and seems such a waste to toss 4 gig out.

Oh, and please don?t steal my thunder implying the SBS is wizard-zed. It is my first server and I am so excited I cannot sleep at night. SBS should be in on Tuesday and then I am deploying it! ;o) Hey what do you think of my tech talk. LOL.

Thanks again mate!
--------------------------------------------
OK Update:

2x 36'ers gone. Buaght 3x 74gigers for total of 9x 74gigers.

So...

2 will be RAID 1+0 for OS and Apps
5 will be RAID 5 for data
1 will be hot spare
1 will be cold spare (is that even a phrase? if not I coin it ;o)

Sounds right? And who said that advice on this forum falls on deaf ears?

Also is "Client Server Messaging Security for SMB" from Trend a good security option?

Thanks all!

by churdoo

I guess I've got you snowed into thinking I'm intelligent; chalk one up to me. You too are doing just fine with your tech talk, and even better now knowing that you're using an HP server. Now that that's out of the way ...

Your disk configuration is fine. You can throw the SBS system volume on the 2x 36GB RAID1, but again, pay attention to the install weez-ard and be sure to place all dynamic data away from the system vol. I suspect after 2-3 years, you'll find the capacity on the system vol creeping down. I don't have any hard facts, this is just my own observation of the effects of the normal course of bloating over time due to logfiles, temp files, updates, installing new apps and neglecting to install to a different drive, etc.

When MS Accounting installs its instance of SQL2005, hopefully it will let you direct it, or at least the database store, off of the system volume.

The 4GB RAM limitation is due to the base O/S of SBS being Windows Server 2003 Standard (R2). I don't think there's anything you can do about this until probably the next iteration of SBS, 2008 (Cougar). Note the Server Standard column of the "Hardware Specifications" comparison chart in the following article
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsserver/evaluate/features/compare.mspx

No I don't mean to steal your thunder relative to using SBS and all of its weez-ards. It's a great product and we have it deployed in many of our clients. I do have to admit however, that I throw a snyde remark or two around when I'm talking with my Enterprise consultant friends (when in Rome, LOL), but seriously SBS is a great tool for the SMB market, and you'll do just fine with it I'm sure.

http://www.smallbizserver.net/ is a good SBS resource, as is of course, TR.

by cg it

better to nix the 36 GB drives like Churdoo suggests. seriously

you will use 25 GB no matter what with SBS and if you are going to install other stuff like WSUS, ISA SQL, even if you install them on other drive, they do use up space on the system drive [though not a lot]. System logs will also chew up space as well as monitoring and reporting IF you don't configure logs to go into their own partition.

minimum for a standard SBS installation mirrored drives is 40 GB partition. That will give you enough space for installing stuff and not worry about running out of system drive space.

The rest, you just need to plan out what goes where and how much you plan on storing.

your wasting those SCSI drives though

the HP utility will allow RAID 5 with partiy AND allow you to create as many partitions as you want. C: 40 GB D: 80GB or more E: 30GB F: 5 GB G: 50 GB depends on users.

by mellow52

Thanks CG IT. Just so I go this straight.

Now since I nixed the two 36gig's and have 8x 74gig drives, I should take them all to RAID 5 or maybe only 7 of them and keep 1 hot spare?

Then partion away as suggested?

Also I see RAID 6(ADG) is an option with HP Smart Start but not sure if SBS will go with that?

by cg it

partition away... but make sure you have 40 GB for the system partition. Always want good amount of free space as system performance will suffer as the system partition decreases in free space [virtual memory]. Another is the page file. you could move it to it's own partition but if you partition with enough free space you won't have to. Moving the page file to another disk or a faster disk was par for the course with older late 1990s early 2000 machines, but with todays hardware, good planning, you don't have to.

yes SBS will only address 4 GB of memory. So you have to design the network accordingly. With 10 users, not a problem. with 75 users, it could pose quite a problem and warrant a member server to offload tasks or warrant another DC.

If you are going to use SQL, for small # of users it's ok on the SBS box, however as you get up to the 25 user range, you can tax the SBS box [same with terminal services]. most opt to put in a seperate terminal services server and a seperate SQL server.

As Churdoo says but Exchange in its own partition of 75 GB or more.

move log files to it's own partition so the system partition doesn't lose space as the log files grow.

by mellow52

Thanks guys I REALLY appreciate your time and advice.

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