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Admin with a criminal background

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I am the Network Admin for a local Electronic Supply company in Alaska. I have both the A+ and Network+ certifications along with a CNSE from Fluke Networks, trained in their network analyzers. My network is only 24 stations with an NT4.0 Server. I took this job over about 4 years ago, along with other duties in the company. I really like computers and networking. I do not however, have much experience with other NOS' other than NT4.0. And having moved into this job gradually, I learned it through problem solving as they occured. The certs followed.

I would like to make this my vocation, and pick up some more certs - namely MCSE. My problem though is that I have a criminal background. That has not been an issue where I work now - as I moved into the job slowly, proving my competence and reliability a piece at a time.

My question is this: With my criminal background (homicide - spent 19 years in prison)will I be hired? If I obtained more certs, and pursued Networking as an occupation, would I be taken seriously? I don't see myself moving into a head position at IBM or Exxon - but I do wonder how badly my past will hurt my chances of working in the IT field.

Any and all comments and advise is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Sid

397 replies

by gralfus

Anything you can do to show a change in your life will help. Mostly people are concerned about repeated offences, and especially in law enforcement. If you can show that you are pursuing a professional course (study, certs, training, schooling) and have a steady job history since you got out, that will go a long way in helping your career.

That said, you are still competing with a lot of folks that have no criminal history. Some people will always take it into account regardless of what you have done afterwards. But you can't let the attitude of others stop you. Become as proficient as you can and you will find those who need your skills.

by simply-living

At the risk of sounding like some peace loving do gooder. I have to say "all things are possible through CHRIST who strengthens me." IBM and Exxon may be big, but God is bigger and if you turn to Him, there is always hope!

Make no mistake, I love Jesus, and I know HE is able, but I won't force him on you or anyone else for that matter.

Your past is just that, your past. Don't lie or wash over it lightly. If there are questions answer them. You've served your time and now you are looking to move on. It's about your skill and abilities now, not 19+ years ago.

Keep looking up, it will happen!

by rgriego2

However, todays employer doesn't look at it that way. I personally have accepted Jesus into my heart, but that doesn't mean Corporate America has. They still think that what they find in the paperwork of a persons past and present make the person for the future. This is not true, what a person wants to be is what they will be. God does make a difference, at least he did for me and from what you have said, you too. So once again Bravo to you for saying so.
R.G.

by oz_media

Firstly, I would never hold someone's past against them, mine is rather sordid to say the least so who am I to judge?

I will obviously be aware of someone's past if it had a possibility of effecting me but it wouldn't play a part in the hiring decision, unless the guy was a repeat offender that has never improved.

Man, if my background had ever been checked (or if it mattered to anyone) I wouldn't get a job at MacDonalds, so I can certainly appreciate your concern though.

Now I am a bit of a hypocrite here becasue i am self employed (something you might want to consider with yoru certs).

All I can suggest is call people, introduce yourself, apply for positions as yuou are asked to (not just sending out blind emails everywhere, I've yet to see that one work ONCE).

I wouldn't see a need to explani your past unless asked, yet again I wouldn't withold information if I was being probed by a prospective employer.

Funny but your career path so far is very similar to mine, I never intended to get into computing even, I hated computer geeks. I sort of fell into it as one person left, things needed to be done, nobody had any initiative and I learned the basics as needed. I eventually got my MCNE but only because an employer agreed to pay for it (plus pay me for my time in school).

I left that company and nowe remote network for them and another former client of theirs, as well as a few smaller offices I picked up.

It can be done, MANY will try and discourage you, as you've probably already found out, but all in all determination and will wins hands down everytime.

You have shown that you have become a positive citizen and have achieved your certs, had some experience on the job (more important than someone just graduating with the latest knowledge by far!)and the fact that you've held your existing job for over 4 years, kudos, will be very positive marks on your 'scorecard'.

I don't know why you would want to leave, other than money or some inner political reasons perhaps, but if you stay where you are and look for work you should find something without cashing in your chips first.

As I said before though, to be successful in ANY job hunt for ANY industry, you must be dedicated, make the calls, get the appointments and show up ready for your interviews.

I've have seen so many qualified people cimplain about being out of work when they show absolutely NO useful job search skills. If you want it, do it. If you get rejection, which everyone does regardles sof their past, don't chalk it up as being due to your past, just keep going with a single focus,you can not and will not lose.

Best of luck,
OM

by jennifer.gardner

I say go for it! But if at all possible, don't leave your current position until you have another already lined up. And do your best to not burn any bridges in case you ever need to go back. Oz_Media suggested self-employment, and that might be an excellent route to take. Have you given that any thought? You know that YOU won't let your past get in your way.

by curetgabriel

Let me tell u... I was a drug addict. Now's day, I have my own company and my main supplier (Computer Supplyer) knows my back ground, he was my heighbor back in the old day's. Don't give up on ur dreams hommy! Keep it up, don't let go ur dreams!!!!!!!!!

by jimhm

You have turned yourself around - with 4 years of examplatory(sp) service to a company. The felony - may hold you back to a few companies - others will look at it as you made a mistake and have paid and turned your life around.

The only way to find out - is to try it - if not it sounds like the company you are working for is pretty dam good. Send out a few resumes - be open and honest that for 19 years you were in jail - during the interviews answer the question open and honestly - I did this - I have turned my life around and have had 4 progressive years of service with this company. Also let your boss know you sniff the field - that may modivate them to move you into the IT area as well at your current employer.

Best of luck and best wishes for a successful future.

by dc_guy

I would ask a lot of questions. I would have already found out as much as I could about the crime and your background. Now I will use my people skills to size you up and see if I'd be comfortable having you around; it's as simple as that.

I expect honest answers to my questions. I expect you to be able to tell me what circumstances compelled you to commit murder. I expect you to be able to tell me what has changed in your life to make both you and me 100% confident that you will never react to a situation with violence again -- not necessarily murder, I don't even want you to scream at someone you're mad at or throw your PC out the window if you're having a bad day. And honestly I would probably cut anyone else on my staff some slack if they did that once. But you will be held to a higher standard because as far as I'm concerned you already had your "one chance" and it was a doozy.

I expect that you've had a lot of therapy and are a different person now. Finding religion won't cut it at all with me because personally I don't believe that the major religions actually deter people from committing violence. But another employer may feel differently so if you found enlightenment through religion apply at their company but not mine.

I know that unlike rape, murder is generally a crime of passion and you are actually very unlikely to do it again. If you did it as a gang thing I'd feel pretty uneasy, but you are 20 years older and maybe you don't think like a homie any more. I would never hire a rapist or even make peace with one living in my neighborhood.

Frankly I am as concerned with the attitudes and habits (and diseases) you may have picked up in prison as I am with your crime. Sadly, prison makes a lot of people worse.

I hope you appreciate my candor. I think I speak for a lot of people and perhaps this will help you in your search.

Good luck, and I mean it. If I were a manager right now (I'm not), I'd be happy to give you a chance at an interview.

by steelville

DC_GUY: "..personally I don't believe that the major religions actually deter people from committing violence. But another employer may feel differently so if you found enlightenment through religion apply at their company but not mine.."

My, such bigotry! That is also ignorance, not necessarily your fault, since it is a heavily censored area in the "major media" nowadays. (I have personal Would you say that about "secular" programs? "Major religions" is one thing, but the previous poster referred to Jesus Christ, not any "major religion".

That said, go ask somebody who works in the real trenches.

That said, I worked as a Christian missionary. When I made that decision, it meant giving up not only illegal drugs, but a possible future in some violent movement.

During the time in the "field", I worked next to an <> ex-drug dealer, <> an ex-heroin addict (who shook it off in a 24-hour sleep when he joined the work), <> an ex-prostitute, <> an ex-illiterate who had learned how to read there, <> a former Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback who had been an alcoholic and wandered off from his family till he met us, and such really bad folks as <> an FBI agent who had been sent to investigate this Christian group and had resigned to join the work for real, <> an heir to one very major bank fortune (you'd know the name) whose inheritance was cut off for doing this.

Of Chuck Colsen, people who knew him before Watergate and his prison time where he "became a Christian", said he would kill his own grandmother for anything, and that he's different. Nicky Cruz is another famous example, New York gang member, now helping others. I met one of his ex-convict-type fruits, also now helping in such works.

Then there was John Newton, 19th century slave trader, who was so anguished over his past that he fiercely fought the practice after being "born again" and helped end it. He's the one who penned the now reknowned hymn "Amazing Grace". "..how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me.."

Visit your local Salvation Army and get an education!

>> That all said, also, at one time I came back from Latin America and saw a piece of news where maximum-security prisoners in Missouri were being taught computer programming, and another one where they were taken to the Ozarks wilds and taught survival! Now that was a really daffy decision! Sheesh!

This poster can tell you that too. Few get to where this one is now.

by valis

are you saying that no christian can commit a crime? if so, you've seriously lost touch with reality.

the poster's response had nothing to do with "bigotry", it had everything to do with pure logic, and undisputable FACT. people of all religions, yes even christianity, commit crimes. and yes, even murder.

valis

by chug

While I agree that DC_GUY could have worded it a bit differently, I think you misunderstood what he was saying. He isn't saying that religion is bad. He's just saying that religion alone is not a qualification that this person has turned their life around. If the applicant says "I've found Jesus" (or any other religion) and expects his past to be forgotten based purely on that, the applicant is sadly mistaken. It needs to be backed up by honest detailed information about the past circumstances and how the applicant has changed to make the hiring person feel 100% confident that the past won't be an issue. Yes, many people do find religion and turn their lives around, but many don't.

by steelville

DC_GUY: "..personally I don't believe that the major religions actually deter people from committing violence. But another employer may feel differently so if you found enlightenment through religion apply at their company but not mine.."

My, such bigotry! That is also ignorance, not necessarily your fault, since it is a heavily censored area in the "major media" nowadays. (I have personal Would you say that about "secular" programs? "Major religions" is one thing, but the previous poster referred to Jesus Christ, not any "major religion".

That said, go ask somebody who works in the real trenches.

That said, I worked as a Christian missionary. When I made that decision, it meant giving up not only illegal drugs, but a possible future in some violent movement.

During the time in the "field", I worked next to an <> ex-drug dealer, <> an ex-heroin addict (who shook it off in a 24-hour sleep when he joined the work), <> an ex-prostitute, <> an ex-illiterate who had learned how to read there, <> a former Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback who had been an alcoholic and wandered off from his family till he met us, and such really bad folks as <> an FBI agent who had been sent to investigate this Christian group and had resigned to join the work for real, <> an heir to one very major bank fortune (you'd know the name) whose inheritance was cut off for doing this.

Of Chuck Colsen, people who knew him before Watergate and his prison time where he "became a Christian", said he would kill his own grandmother for anything, and that he's different. Nicky Cruz is another famous example, New York gang member, now helping others. I met one of his ex-convict-type fruits, also now helping in such works.

Then there was John Newton, 19th century slave trader, who was so anguished over his past that he fiercely fought the practice after being "born again" and helped end it. He's the one who penned the now reknowned hymn "Amazing Grace". "..how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me.."

Visit your local Salvation Army and get an education!

>> That all said, also, at one time I came back from Latin America and saw a piece of news where maximum-security prisoners in Missouri were being taught computer programming, and another one where they were taken to the Ozarks wilds and taught survival! Now that was a really daffy decision! Sheesh!

This poster can tell you that too. Few get to where this one is now.

by the witch

Here in South Africa we deal with violent crime as a daily part of our living and having been subjected to this environment and having to fire people on two occassions for theft, has conditioned me into not giving anyone a second chance. It is a case of living with the consequences of your actions for example like contracting HIV nothing is going to wipe your "mistake" in contracting the disease and therefore you have to live with the consequences innocently or guilty. The only way you could make a living in the networking or IT business is by being entrepeneurial and offering your services from a business point of view.
However, I wish you well and may you find your niche in life.

by thebooch

This is your biggest hurdle to get past in most mid-to large sized organizations. I have a difficult getting qualilfied non-degreed professionals through the HR screening process nevermind someone that has done a quick minute for any crime. Last larger company I worked at disqualified candidates based on their credit history!

by gmoore

I too would be willing to at least hear the guy out, but I would have to have total confidence in your ability to handle pressure, people, company expectations, etc... I would be held responsible if you did have a violent confrontation with your co-workers. I also agree that religion is often used to mask repressed emotions and is an inadequate vehicle for dealing with most of lifes frustrations; it is also used by people to help convince the world that they are reformed. The business world is not a place to seek religious expression, but to seek personal and financial growth. If you seeking these, then maybe we can work together.

by webdvlpr

First of all - it would be a yes or no answer if you were the hiring manager. You wouldn't have the right to ask him any of the questions about the circumstances of his crime. Your comment, "maybe you don't think like a homie anymore" is the most ridiculous ignorant comment I've heard in a long time. Hello...it's 2004.

by scubaboy

DC_Guy, as usual, is offering hiring advice from someone not qualified to give it. When did religion enter into this discussion?

I am a manager who interviews scores and hires dozens of people for technical positions each month. If you bring religion into the interview, you are DONE. Religion is a PERSONAL issue, and anyone who feels the compulsion to bring their views of the invisiable man in the sky into a work environment is not someone who will be working for my organization. Just as I don't care about your sexual proclivities or other personal activities, religion has absolutely no place in the workplace, unless you are applying for a job with a religious organization. The more I hear about your religious beliefs, the more I know that you will be a disruption in my organization with those beliefs.

Concentrate on your skill set, and do some things to prove your technical expertise. Certifications are ABSOLUTELY no proof of capability, they simply mean that you have appeased the marketing machine of Microsoft, Cisco or whoever. The proof is in the pudding, not the certs. I see around 100-150 resumes per week. I see so many people who have MCSE, CCNA, etc, but have no proven track record doing the nitty-gritty work - I throw those resumes in the circular file right away. Any idiot can pay some cert mill to give them an MCSE or other meaningless certification; decent hiring managers know this and see right through it.

Volunteer for a non-profit or other organization, and actually DO SOMETHING. Being able to say in an interview that you set up a company intranet, set up security on a network, etc., will serve you a thousand times better than a paper certification.

Did I let the cat out of the bag? Certifications mean NOTHING without a proven track record of IT knowledge and performance. I fell into the same school of thought years ago, and busted my butt getting several certs. But it was ONLY my technical knowledge and problem-solving capabilities that got me hired and promoted, not the marketing BS that is certification.

As to your past errors? Some companies will be horrified, some will be more enlightened. You certainly face an uphill battle, but again, only proven technical skills will overcome this, not certifications. I personally have hired people with less-than-perfect backgrounds, including manslaughter, homicide and drug offenses. Why did I decide to take a chance on them? Because they were so technically solid that the criminal background became insignificant compared to the skills and assets being brought to my company. So get out there and prove yourself, in the real world, not in some certification classroom.

Good luck in your quest, and keep the faith. You served 19 years and hopefully have atoned for your sins. Put it behind you and move forward!

"Those Who Can, Do. Those Who Can't Get Certified"!!!

by sidvail

I appreciate your replies. I've always thought it would be a minor roadblock myself. And that's thinking of the security issues of dealing with company data, passwords, etc. - rather than the personal fears and biases of the employers themselves. I've actually been accepted and treated way better than I had thought possible, and had fears of, as I was preparing for release. I thank everyone for that - and yes, my boss also for taking a chance with me.

As stated earlier, I'd like to move into the IT field fulltime. My company is too small to staff it fulltime - and I've moved up as far as I can where I'm at. I'm in no hurry to go anywhere, but I do see a need for it eventually. Hence my question of should I pursue this vocation. So far, I've been encouraged to do so.

I thank you all for your advice and encouragement. I don't expect it to be an easy job - but I do look forward to the experience.

Networking rocks! :)

by jcfenner

sidvail - I have been battling with similar background issues, and becasue of my fear that I could not get a good job, I have allowed myself to go unrewarded. Instead of getting paid, I do full-time volunteer work at a non-profit (I have a disability income). I want to get certified and have been taking classes off and on for many years. I am good at what I do, just afraid of the rejection. I'd like to hear how it comes out for you. Good luck.

by techniquephreak

It looks to me like you have time working in your favor. Most employers ask whether or not you have been convicted of a felony in the past seven (7) years. Some ask about the last ten (10). You should answer truthfully, but you do not have to disclose extra information.

I was convicted of a felony in 1992 and am currently the IT Director for a behavioral sciences research company. I also run my own consulting firm. My employer knows about my past, but my skills, performance, and loyalty speak for themselves. Heck, it actually worked to my advantage on more than one occasion (that's the benefit of working with a bunch of psychologists).

Good luck! If you've got the mad skills and the passion to excel in this field, your conviction should not hold you back. You definitely will NOT get a Top Security Clearance position, due to the extensive background checks they perform, but you should be able to do just about anything else. In any industry.

by mrafrohead

First off, if you are a changed person, you are a changed person. Make sure that you let whoever needs to know that, know. Of course, only if you need to. I wouldn't just tell people, but if it's brought up, I wouldn't hide it either. That's the past and hindsight is a bitch. ;p

Second, as far as I know, you only have to report that type of thing on your app if asked for a certain amount of years. I think where I'm at it's seven years. After that, you no longer have to add it to the app if asked.

Just remember, check on the laws where you are, or will be at. Make sure you're in the right, and don't lie. If you do lie, it can be grounds for dismissal.

I can say me personally, if I were doing the hiring. I would look at your qualifications and whether or not you are trust worthy, as I would with any other person. What is done in the past is the past. Unless you are a repeat offender, I personally see that as you learned your lesson or realize that you made a mistake and let by gones be by gones.

Good luck!

Mrafrohead

by basilmac

Since you have paid for the wrong, you might think of starting your own business and hire on as a contractor instead of an employee. some managers look at the record of the past and not the abilities and the character of the preson in the present.

Best of Luck,
Basil

by gsg

I hate to say it, but don't apply anywhere in Healthcare. Current regulations require background checks, and in most states, Hospitals cannot hire people that have been convicted of certain crimes. Check your local regulations if you want to think about going this route. I have to commend you on your desire to move on. That takes a lot of strength. You might want to look into some sort of small business where you can provide IT support for other small businesses and for private users. We have several of these locally that are extremely successful!

by bitmeister

While current regulations do require background checks these requirements typically apply to individuals applying for clinical positions. Clinicians will have access to patients, medications, etc. and these pre-employement background checks are important.
Most of these checks do include a criminal records check through the state which will surely list your conviction but should not prevent getting hired unless the company has an explicit policy forbidding hiring convicted felons in an IT position.
With any position you do get, expect to be under the microscope more than others in the office. Of course this will make it more obvious to management when you do excel on projects and assigned tasks. Be sure to compliment your NOS training with security training, they compliment each other, and businesses need people with these combined skills! Good Luck! :-)

by !thebear

Once you pay your debt to society, so remorse and turn your life around you deserve a chance. Besides only the 'rich' are inncocent in court anyway. The average guys like us can't afford a OJ
Simpson dream team.

I have 6 servers, 300+ PC's, bunches of network printers, CISCO and Cabletron Switches.

...GOOD LUCK...

by jp5472

In a perfect world, a person does something in their past, pays their debt to society, shows continued rehabilitation, and continues on a path of growth in contributing to society...then there is reality...especially in this "fear" crazed society we live in now. I know from my own experiences that THERE ARE PLACES THAT RUN A BACKGROUND CHECK AND WON'T EVEN PURSUE A CANDIDATE ANY FURTHER IF THERE ARE FELONIES OR ANY PENDING CASES INVOLVING A FELONY CHARGE. This is the company policy-nothing to do with handling money, top-secret information, or access to company records and priviliged information. Now with the panicked society we live in, and with the Patriot Act and every other scandal possible under the sun (ie Arthur Anderson, Ernst and Young, Tyco, Enron, WorldCom), I suspect more and more companies will be looking for immaculate records. I wish you the best as there still are companies that will hire, but in this depressed market it has to be tough. If you didn't live in Alaska, I'd give you a real look in an interview. I'm in the Philadelphia area.

by gaijinit

You have a real concern that deserves an honest
answer, and there is a lot to consider. Some have told
you America is a paranoid society, but I think peole are
simply less naive than before, and more informed.
But others have told you that you paid for your
mistake, and that was 19 years ago. I agree withh this
1000%. That's a hell of a long time to think things over
and make chooices about your life. It sounds to me like
you picked one of the few fields that would give you a
chance to improve your chances through self-study. A
lot of IT people see themselves as 'mavericks', working
within corporate environments but maintaining their
sense of independence and personal pride through the
professional respect they get from the knowledge they
have worked hard to obtain. In that sense, you would
be working with people usually with higher-than-
average intelligence and not too quick to judge others.
If I were interviewing you, I think I would ask you
about your present attitude, what are your aspirations
and were you willing to work as hard as everyne else,
and that's it. EVERYBODY screws up when they're
young, and how much you screw up is almost always
influenced by the situation or environment you were in
when it happened.
I firmly believe people have a choice, and should pay
for their mistakes. You have paid for your mistake over
and over. I cannot even imagine the shit you had to put
up with in prison and still managed to get around it
enough to improve yourself and look to a better life
instead of embracing bitterness and giving up. And I
believe you would be much less likely than most
people to do anything to get yourself in trouble again,
since you only too well understand the repercussions.
You have made your choice, and you should look
forward and upward.
I wish you all the best of luck - I only offer this advice -
take it as you will or not, it is just an opinion, no better or
worse than anyone else's - stand on your own, never
stop learning and growing, and live your life in a
productive way. You lost a lot of years, but just as you
hope people will not judge you for your mistake, I hope
you can also not harbor bitterness about your life up to
now - you can still have a good one, and I hope you
do.
I think the least you deserve is a fair chance to prove
yourself just like anyone else. Best of luck to you, it was
braver than anaything I could have done just to put
yourself on the line and ask people to give you their
comments. Stay strong.

by clavius

Murder is mostly a one-time thing according to the statistics and you had 19 years to think about that end of it. Knowledge and attitude is everything to my way of hiring people because I believe in those two conditions above everything else. I would determine in the interview whether or not I would hire you because I would have already investigated everything else about you including your prison time. I was known as an unconventional man during my working life [I am retired] and did hire some truly unusual people in my time. I would have no problem in dealing with your past.

by waidz176

To be honest with you as I read your letter -the word "homocide" was like a kick in my tummy.It's easy to say oh yes we would all hire you, but for me personally I would have reservations. I believe that people can change and circumstances can drive any sane human to do despicable things - but if I had to choose the person to have around me 70% of my day then I would choose the person with no homocide criminal record.
We have heard so many horror stories here in SA about employees that turn against their employers and go on murder rampages - I am chicken and would be terrified.
On the other hand, if it was any other criminal record that is not in the top 5 crimes - then it would be a different matter...
What happened anyway ?

by wankelc

Murder is from a career standpoint a less serious crime than shoplifting because it is not a fidiciary breach and therefore does not disqualify a person from being bonded (insured) which is a legal requirement in the financial services and some other industries. That is why in 1970s Chemical Bank in New York focused on murderers and people with drug violations in its ex-offender hiring program. (Urine was monitored to assure that no current drug users were included).

by stevej

Anytime a person changes thier career there are challenges and personnel frustrations involved. It is important to look at each opportunity as a change to build your career, not just an opportunity to work. This stated it is also important to create your own opportunities. Many times a person can leverage thier past to create a new opportunity. In your case doing volunteer work for orginizations helping other ex-cons or helping toubled kids could go a long way in giving you both credibility and experience, Good Luck

by sirlanse

A thief/embezzeler/hacker would be far worse
in an IT adminstration position.
IT guys frequently have anti socal leaning and
are left alone by the rank and file employees.
If you are honest and can point out your weakness
and that weakness won't effect your work,
you may get hired.
You have a better chance in IT, than in sales.
Collections could be an natural fit,
I have seen some HR departments where everyone
seems to be a murderer.

by nick

Sometimes it works out, somtimes it doesn't; but never had to let thme go because of their past. As a general rule, I'd say IT people are more likely to care about your skills rather than past than most professions.

But I would say that if you cam to me with NT 4.0 skills and a Windows 2003 MCSE with no experience to back it up - *that* I'd struggle with.

by info

I applaud your desire to enhance yourself, especially in the difficult world of certs and IT in general.

The IT field is very full, particularly in the sysadmin arena. The amount of people competing for the same job is tremendous. If you are one that likes a challenge then perhaps a sysadmin position would be good for you.

I recently went through a job transistion where I found myself without a job after being the IT manager for 8 years. While I was looking for work, I found I was drawn towards smaller companies (vs. Exxon, BP, etc.) They don't have a tendency to off-shore their work and they give you opportunities to do more than pure network admin. On the down side, smaller companies seem to evaluate backgrounds harder than larger companies who have more formal H/R policies that might work to your benefit.

Good luck on all your endeavors,

Steve

by greenchief

Sidvail,

I would say give it a try. I participate in a prison ministry (Kairos) and have had the opportunity to talk with a number of prisoners who are in prison for various reasons. In talking with them, I have found that most prisoners are no different than those who are not, with the exception of making a mistake.

Now that you have paid for your mistake, persue your dream. You won't be able to do some of the work requiring a clearance, but there are many jobs that do not require clearances.

Good luck.

Jim

by dicklaw

Before spending too much time and money, suggest you check on need for secutiry clearances - and can you qualify? My last positions required "Industrial security clearance" to protect inhouse products and/or proceedures. When I first started in Digital computers (1959) a govt top secret cearance was manditory (even for analog computers prior to that).

by vgaughan

Hi Sid,
You're doing the right thing. Whatever you do your record will follow you. With some experience in the HR area, my advice is to not hide your conviction because you can be fired if you keep it off your application. On the other hand, don't go out of your way to expose it, unless it is relevant it's nobody's business.

There are two pieces of good news. The first is that your record is for homicide not fraud or stealing. Fraud or stealing would make it difficult to accept you in a position of trust.

The second is Alaska. It's a frontier mentaility where you will quickly find out whether you will be accepted. It is far more accepting of checked pasts that the lower 48. They are less prying about your past and more accepting of who you are today.

Good luck with the right attitude you'll get what you want.

Victor

by robert

In your position I would try volunteering for an organisation that you enjoy. All the non profits are required to publish a form 990, and you can look up a lot of information on them on Guidestar.

I would think that telework might raise as many issues at it answers, but it is still worth investigating.

by adc24

It depends on your location how you are living right now, but having been through this, if you are living for Jesus you have to have faith that if God brings you to it he'll bring you through it. I say pray and follow your heart. It can be done, I have done it.

by alvarocervantes

I personally think that this man needs professional help, and you are not helping at all but just taking advantage of his situation. First of all, nothing works by feith in nature and neither in the corporate world. So inteligent managers won't base their hiring decission in religion, but in things being done; social skills, how to handle hard situations, etc. Second, praying does not help, and again do things, participate with people to prove that you can handle people. Third, I don't think it is possible to follow your heart, since it follows your body wherever your body goes (our heart is a pump and nothing else, and it does not have legs to move). I will sugest rather than following fieth, do as much as you can to prove that you have control over your body and surrounding (social and technical). And, for the religious people in this forum, I will suggest try a different social environment to promote your magical world, this is reallity.

by alvarocervantes

I personally think that this man needs professional help, and you are not helping at all but just taking advantage of his situation. First of all, nothing works by feith in nature and neither in the corporate world. So inteligent managers won't base their hiring decission in religion, but in things being done; social skills, how to handle hard situations, etc. Second, praying does not help, and again do things, participate with people to prove that you can handle people. Third, I don't think it is possible to follow your heart, since it follows your body wherever your body goes (our heart is a pump and nothing else, and it does not have legs to move). I will sugest rather than following fieth, do as much as you can to prove that you have control over your body and surrounding (social and technical). And, for the religious people in this forum, I will suggest try a different social environment to promote your magical world, this is reallity.

by lesmond

I can't see me or my organisation having a problem employing you. Provided an applicant meets the correct level of qualification and experience for a given job, background (unless a serial fraudster or someone with dishonesty convictions) doesn't really come into our equation. Go for it - but be prepared for knock backs more as a result of the state of the industry rather than anything in your past!

by it andy

With my tech admin hat on, I would say that you have more chance than someone convicted of theft. It sounds daft since this is a "lesser" crime, but stealing information is the biggest no-no in I.T. If your crime can be shown to have been a one off and there is no chance of repertition then toy stand a reasonable chance if
a) you are good enough at your job.
b) prepared to work, and
c) have good references (everyone needs them!)

by hblanthorn9

I would encourage you to keep on working, obtain as many certs as possible, because they will demonstrate your committment to your goals! Yes.. you'll have to accept the fact that a criminal record will be viewed by some as an issue. Then again, in today's cut-throat world of business, a homicide conviction might be viewed as an asset! But to be serious.. it has been my experience that continued professional developement along a given path is the best demonstration of intent. Keep plugging away. It may seem like a long time, but 4 years isn't much, but certainly a very good solid base. By the way, most jobs/careers depend just as much on "people and business skills" as they do on technology skills. One of my main concerns in interviewing prospects is their ability to "work and play well with others". Will they fit into the teams they will work with? And even more important than past certs, do they appear to be able to absorb new skills quickly? As you have already seen, this business changes so rapidly that yesterdays' certs are often useless in 2-3 years, so the ability to assimilate new technologies, and apply them well is the most critical trait I'd look for.

Good luck, and dont let little discouragements affect your overall goals.

by schrödinger's cat

Your efforts to become a productive member of society again (including posting this question)say a lot about you. Go for it! Go for it hard, with all your might!
Of course, you will fight the same kind of prejudice, suspicion, and wariness that you would face in any other job and in the community as well--until you prove yourself. You have to be a little more patient, a little more tolerant than the next guy. And above all be careful not to frighten people--if you have a tendancy to fly off the handle or get angry easily...take great pains to control that or see a counsellor to help control it.

So...as a manager--Yes, I would hire you. ...and like any other new hire I would keep my eye on you ... I would help you to adjust and help others to adjust to you. It will be your coworkers who you have to make a good impression with...

Go get those cerifications. Work a little harder than the next guy. Study a little harder. Get good at it...and you will do well.

Good luck!

by network_analyst

If you're really good at what you do...I mean really, really good...and you pursue higher education and continued improvement, your past won't mean much to your employer. My friend is an ex-con also. He did 5 years hard time in a Federal Prison for a bank robbery and 5 more years parole before they cut him loose. My boss hired him when he was still on parole. He turned out to be one of the best engineers we ever had and everyone considered him their friend at the company. Today, he's remarried with a nice house and kids and he owns his own technology company and he's doing fine.

Keep studying. Get educated. Never look back. Things will work out for you. Good luck with your new career.

by massiej

Jesus said it best: "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone".

Go for it. You might want to consider applying to universities (I work at one). They pride themselves on open minds.

by richard.gaskins

As far as you getting ahead and taking "Certs" go for it. You will probably not be ale to get a security clearence having a felony record, but "FAITH" as you alreday know, will get you over any hurdles.
It kept you alive while you were in...
Stay foucused my friend, it will all work out....

by cjenning

I recently got turned down for a contract because I was white, anglo, and doing alright. Client wanted someone of color and more "down and out."
You only need one job. The jobs are out there - you just have to find them.
Suggest that when you're ready you let people know that you have a criminal background, you've paid your debt to society, and you're ready to get to work for them.
Regarding certs - NT4.0 is a building block, and there may be some 4.0 environments for which you'd be a good fit. But I'd advise you to get into job search mode and go full-speed ahead on the current certifications. I have a buddy who's doing his certs now, and I'd be happy to refer you to him for the particulars.
Good luck,

by epreport

Why should you not get on as you have donme the time.
here in the UK we have a famous TV actor in Soaps who committed a particular vicious crime of blowing the back of a taxi drivers head for his fare money, He was given life inprisonment but allowed out on licence afer nine years, And now earns a fortune on TV.
If he can do it why not you?
The best of Luck!

EPB

by prohta

I was convicted with 2 theft II felony counts and when I went to work the first two employers I saw said "no way." So, I went back to school, got two computer science AA degrees and a BS in Applied Technology & Multimedia Design.

When I was through I got my dream job, only because my new employer saw that I was not the person I used to be, but a person who wanted to improve myself.

I am now a Marketing Manager and webmaster for a small company that brings in lots of money, which I handle. Not only does my employer trust me, I trust myself. That is an awesome feeling to know that I can actually be a productive member of society again.

I hope you pursue all your dreams. Getting certs is never a bad thing, it just shows that you really have a desire to be the best you can be!

I say "go for it!"

Good luck

by darrahg

Obtaining certs outside of the penal system will help you gain credibility. Murder does not come into play when working as an IT Admin.
Whether it is legal or not, I would want to know the circumstances surrounding your crime to determine whether my employees would be/feel safe around you. I think most employers, whether intentional or not, would use that act as negative criteria when screening for a perspective employee because they do not want to take on any more responsibility (liability) than they have to. Murder is a hard act to swallow and knowing the circumstances surrounding the event would make it easier to understand the individual and just might put the employer at ease enough to hire you. Best of Luck!

by warrior

Sidvail,

Sorry as an owner of an ISP I would be afraid to hire someone with such a volatile disposition.

Taking one's live is the ultimate sin, and is not forgivable in your life time. Off course I am prejudging you without knowing the exact circumstances.

Murdering one in self defense is justifiable, death due to a vehicular accident or what ever accident justifiable, death due to fighting justifiable. Any of the above mentioned I would consider you for employment.

We are all humans with the ability to rationalize, and that differentiates us from animals. The person you murdered will never see the light of day again, but you have the privilege to do so.

by christian it guy

Warrior,

I just wanted to let you know how strongly I disagree with you when you say," Taking one's live is the ultimate sin, and is not forgivable in your life time." You mention sin, which I will take as you knowing something about it. The "ultimate sin", is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which means that the ultimate sin is rejection of God's gift of forgivness that He freely offers through faith in His son Jesus Christ. See, Jesus died on the cross for your sins, my sins, Sidvails sins, all of our sins. This does not have to be murder, all of us have sinned, if you have ever cheated, lied, done something in anger, or even thought of it you have sinned. I am a Christian, and so I believe in the Bible, as God's word. The Bible says that,"We are all infected and impure with sin. When we proudly display our righteous deeds, we find they are but filthy rags. Like autumn leaves, we wither and fall. And our sins, like the wind, sweep us away." Isaiah 64:6, and ,"For all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious standard." Romans 3:23. This tells us that all of us (me, you, and everyone) have sinned, and in this state we are unable to get into heaven, but my friend, there is good news. The good news I speak of is the free gift I mentioned earlier, the one from God. See the Bible also says,"We are made right in God's sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done
For all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious standard. Yet now God in his gracious kindness declares us not guilty. He has done this through Christ Jesus, who has freed us by taking away our sins." Romans 3:22-24. So we see that all of us can be forgiven of our sins and made right in God's eyes, only through our personal trust in Jesus Christ to take our sins. He has already paid for you, you just have to accept His sacrafice. I would also like to remind you, incase you have heard this before, that there is a difference between knowing this is true and have a personal trust, and relationship, whith Jesus Christ. Knowing will not get you into heaven, only having a personal relationship with Jesus can do that. It is a free gift, and God wants all of us to be saved from our sins. The bible says,"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16. If you are reading this, it is not by coincidence, but by an appointment that God has given you, so that you could hear and be saved. If you would like to know more, or talk to someone, you can call 1-888-NEEDHIM (888-633-3446) or visit www.needhim.org, there will be people who care for you there, and they are waiting to speak with you. If you don't want to contact them, then you can do this all by yourself, you just have to pray and ask for it. Here is an example of what you can pray," Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner and need Your forgiveness. I was made for You, but I've been living for me. I want to begin a relationship with You now. I believe that You died in my place, to pay the penalty for my sin, and rose again for my salvation. I want to turn from my sins. I now invite You to come into my heart and life as my Lord and Savior. In Jesus' name, Amen." If you have prayed this, the Bible says that you are now forgiven, and that Jesus is now living within you, from here you should contact a Bible based church so that you can get some answers and some help in living your new life as a Christian. If you think that I, and the nearly 100 million, are wrong please think of this. If what I say is wrong, and if you don't believe in God, and are right, then when I die I will go to the same place you do. But if I am right, and you are wrong, you will go to h***(we all know what I mean). Another fact to hear,is that the Bible is a book containing hundreds of detailed prophecies. There are, for example, well over 60 distinct predictions in regard to our Saviour Jesus Christ. Here is a sample of just 10 prophecies that foretold the crucifixion of Christ. Not only were the predictions made 1000 years BEFORE Christ came from heaven to earth, but they were made over 500 years BEFORE crucifixion was first used anywhere in the world as a form of capital punishment! Crucifixion didn't exist when the prophecies were made. A scientist picked out 48 such prophecies and determined that the probability of one man randomly fulfilling them all is 1 in 10 to the exponent of 157. That is one followed by 157 zeros! Your chances of winning a typical lottery jackpot is about 1 in 108. (100,000,000) Yet, Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies! So I will leave you with this information, if you still disagree you should probably research what I am saying, from all points of view, and make an informed decision. As for Sidvail, I am a regional IS admin and I would not strike you out for your crime. I do think that it will make it harder for you, especially as it is harder for everyone right now, but with God's favor anything is possible. Thank you for your time,and God Bless.

by warrior

Wake up to reality, (Jacob Hicks)

Please let me know which planet you are living in. Sorry to say that we live in a world that has a lot of horrible crimes. You talk of murder like it was just like going out stealing a bike, robbing houses, or stealing from your neighbors. We are talking about turning off your lights fool.

This guy has the privilege like you or me to see the light of day. Like I said before I don't know the nature of his homicide. Obviously it must be of the most horrid because he does not elaborate.

I am sick of religious freaks like you that preach the gospel but hide behind the forgiveness of the lord when you do wrong. Wake up and live in the real world.

If he accidentally killed someone or was involved in a situation where he had no control of his doings I would hire him first before a goof ball like you.

Luckily for you, you are not working for me; your ass would be polishing the pavement. What institution did you escaped from? You are considered dangerous but forgivable. Chill out old man.

Have you ever heard of the Ten Commandments? If not I would advise you to verse up on it. One of them is to do on to others as you want others to do on to you. I guess if you kill others then it is alright for others to kill you. So please don't give me your crap.

by tonyj_stirling

I wish you the best of luck, and I hate to suggest more obstacles, but I think it might be best to mention a couple of things.
1. You spent 19 years - I'm guessing you're probably at least 35, then, probably older? I've been reading similar posts to yours where people in their 40's are having problems because of their age - if you're approaching that kind of range, then that might be an obstacle to you.
2. I don't think the people hiring you will be a major problem, but your to-be-coworkers might not be happy if they know your past. Although I must say, I think I would be happier with an ex-con with homicide than with theft/armed robbery or some other violent PLANNED crime. Obviously, I don't know if your act was spontaneous or not, (and it's none of my business), but homicide would make me think more of a spur of the moment crime than planned. Honestly, though, I'm not aware of having worked with any cons, so I don't know how I would ACTUALLY feel - I can only guess.
3. As mentioned before, lack of experience might be a problem, especially since you're using old server software and you're not doing it full-time. Can you persuade your work to upgrade to server 2000 or 2003? That way, you can get a good few years experience with up to date systems, and you've got the groundwork there since you're using NT4.

Best of luck, and I hope the things I've mentioned above don't prove a problem at all.

by jritchie777

I admire your persistence in moving forward with your life and not to discourage you, but in todays "modern business", you cannot lie on an application for employment and even though the disclaimer states "will not automatically disqualify you" any type of conviction will more than likely not get you past the HR department. Your best bet is to try and find a smaller company that will see you as a person, not a statistic. I'm not saying that you can't get a job with a big company, just I think from over 17 years in the industry that your best bet would be a smaller company, one that will give you a chance to explain and prove to them that you are on the right track. Good Luck!!!!!
J. Ritchie
Software Engineer / Network Admin

by the admiral

Short answer in a corporate world No. Short answer in a SMB area Maybe. This is only if you come out and explain why you thought it was necessary to commit the crime in the first place.

Certifications do not make you someone that is hirable by any measure. We have a person who has gotten nearly every certification that there is possible and still to this day can not program a java scriptlet correctly. The certifications only say to a potential employer that you can read and spit back what you have read.

IBM would not hire you because of the criminal background check. IBM is known for firing people because their license tags expired and they got a ticket. You are working a huge uphill battle where you have to prove to the community that you are not a psycho. The problem is that with the criminal record, you have to prove it over and over and over again.

Let's face it everyone, if you have a bad credit file or a criminal history, you are placed in the part of society where the politicians only fear to go when you have the right to vote. Now if you have a credit card balance that is late, they refuse to hire you. Too bad that this is how it is, and I am afraid that it will take alot of money to ensure that this gets changed, but unfortunately, I don't have it or I would be at the courts arguing it myself.

But large corporations has policies in place where they will not hire felons or people who are bankrupt.

by a1deydreams

Whatever you do.. don't try to hide your past.. be truthful and up front with employers... don't volunteer to much information.. but if the application asks answer it truthfully.. you may be able to add a comment...."will discuss at interview".. this lets them know you are open about it and it also keeps the particulars from others eyes... (ie office gossip). also follow up with a letter of thanks and recent goals and current certs..

by tampa hillbilly

The answers you read here are from peers, not CEOs or HR Managers. Real life is that you will continue to be chastized for your past transgression. Even though you are on The Right Track, the train stations will be scarce. My suggestion is either keep the current job, and/or consider independent consulting and getting bonded. No job application to fill out there, and you are judged entirely on performance. If you are a good Network Admin, you will succeed. It is that simple.

by fdohle

I once spoke to an executive who would teach
computer concepts to convicts - as a service
to the community.

I couldn't believe it - so I asked him - would he hire a convict for an IT Job ????

He Said abolutely - and he said he would certainly hire someone who did time for homicide.

Fraud - he said was another issue.

Good Luck

by itmail

I have a long criminal background my self, and I'm now the administrator for a goverment buissinies i Denmark, I havn't killed any one but done a lot of other things like dealing with drugs, wepaons and other things so I can't see that you wont be as lucky as I.

I have been convicted 4 times for everythig from GrandTheftAuto to dealing with Coke and Estacy and is registred in in Interpool for smuglig drugs over the border to denmark and so on so ANY ONE can get an administrator job so go for IT.

BB

by whaling

I would give an interview to you to see if you have what it takes. Doing time would not be a big thing. It is hard to find good help.

I have a record and I made it to a Senior position. I didn't kill anyone or rape anyone but I did other crimes that were not minor. I have had to work really hard and do what no one else does. I do security work and streaming video.

You do have a good change if you really want it bad enough.

by gboice

Here are my thoughts... Since you have been working for 4 years and you have been out of trouble since then, that helps. My advice is to stay with your present job for now and pursue the certifications. Also, keep on learning!

At a job interview, this could be a problem. But I think I would approach it this way. Just tell them that you know what you did in the past was wrong and that you were young and stupid. But also stress that you have been striving to be a good citizen and hopefully a role model.

As some of the thread that I have read, volunteering is a good way to show potential employers that you are committed in stay out of trouble. Try volunteer at places that deal with trouble youths and share your experiences with them. I'm sure a potential employer will look upon this favoritably.

So, basically, stay out of trouble, work hard and most important, keep the faith!!!!

Good Luck!!!!

by james81052

well let me start by saying i was convicted of a crime and did time when i got out i went to sanjose cali i had certs and experience in my feild i applied for a job at a major computer co we won.t say names ok and made it all the way through and was hired then security came up i had already had a top secret clearance before this will i was then fired or let go to be nice about it because of my back ground i believe that people do make mistakes and people learn by them this job that i had applied for was 130,000.00 a year but in the end now i have my own small co and doing just great but the answer to your ? ???????? some places yes you have to be careful and others you don't but i feel and it is only me you deserves a chance good luck

by cowp0ke

Hi Sidvail,

It is good that you are trying to mend your ways. I truly hope you will succeed.

An unfortunate prejudice about former convicts is that many employers don't like them. The tendency is to be abruptly dismissed. The key, however, is not to let that discourage you! You have to bounce back!

I highly recommend you start your own computer consulting business; get all the various certifications and qualifications you can, and hang that on your shingle (company sign)! As a third party computer consultant, employers are more interested in what you accomplish for them than past history.

You will also show a lot of gumption and ambition!

I hope that you succeed!

by kirtor

In my country I think that we have a mostly common wiew: When a person has served his/her time the person is free to restart the life from scratch. I would not judge you from what you have done, but from what you are today and what you know today.

I cannot tell you what will happen when you apply for work, humans are subjective creatures. But a decent man should get a decent treatment!

Good luck!

by angelgrl

I'm sorry. I wouldn't hire you. The reason why is that in a Network Admin position you will be handling a lot of security issues, you will have access to everything. As a Manager/director I would never take the chance.
Good luck.

by don fachabella

I am glad you are rehabilitated, But in the real world if you are over 40 with no experience the best you can hope for is to work as a service tech some where that they don't do back round checks.
I give you credit for your accomplishments. But there are a lot of out of work (laid off) IT'ers out there and to think that you are just going to stroll into the market place and get a job, I don't think so.
Any one who tells you different is lying.
Personnally we have WORKED all our lives and for you to come along and think that you deserve a break is bullsh*t.
People are working 2 and 3 jobs because of downsizing and these jobs are in dept. stores , gas stations and their wives are working as waitreses just to make ends meet.

Any no legit company is going to hire a felon.
Let alone a sys admin from no where.
What are you going to uses as a resume?
become a mechanic or carpenter more chances for you.
This is the truth, as cold as it is.
Sorry if I burst your bubble but better to hear it now than find out later,
If IT people are having to change carrers mid-live do you think you have a chance.
look at the job market or job posting boards.
One job/many applicants.
GOOD LUCK!

by sw2138

Your best bet is with a small company that is looking to save a few bucks. Any gov jobs, big companies, etc. will not give you a chance.
Forget all the jesus stuff everyone is telling you, he is not going to pay your bills and rent. After you get some experience under your belt, consider doing some indenpendent contracting work - they usually don't check backgrounds and you could use your current employer as a ref. Also check your local area for any job programs that give companies tax breaks for hiring x-cons; if a company can save money by hiring you, they will look past the jail thing - saving money is much more important to them.

by rgriego2

You have a very dim view of people. I think you need to seek Higher Enlightenment. Maybe then you would at least act like a real human being an not be so crasp. There is never any need to put people down, unless you need it to feel better about yourself. The type of person you are is the reason there is sooooo much trouble in the world.
It is your opinion that no one deserves a break, I wonder how many mistakes you have made in your perfect life that didn't get a second chance to make it right?
I thought so. So much for Mr. Perfect.
Learn to forgive, you will be the better for it.

by cdmccane

I feel that the circumstances surrounding the nature of your crime should be considered, and if you've been above board since your release - you deserve a chance.

As far as being a top exec at a company - you're going to have to do some footwork. The company you've been with for 4 years will help in yoyr endeavor to move up the ladder. References from your co-workers and employers as to your CHARACTER will have to be your edge.

DON'T GIVE UP

by jgeile

Sidvail,
I am now an owner of an EPS (Expanded Polystyrene) Manufacturing facility. Before I became an owner, I was in management for 10 years with another EPS company. During this period, I hired an employee who was just released from prison for a homicide. I hired him based on two things: 1. He was experienced and his qualifications were beyond those who interviewed for the position. 2. Thinking that anyone who gave this person a second chance would have a loyal and dedicated employee. I spoke with my managers and explained my thoughts to them. Some were concerned, and even scared of this move. I insisted they be professional and give it a chance. The end result, he worked out well. However, I had to force the issue. I had to insist on hiring him. I was the only one who enjoyed the thought of giving someone a second chance with such a past. You MUST proceed with your education, proceed with your career expectations, and prepare for rejections. Dont give up. There are people like me out there, you have to keep trying until you find them. Once hired, you will have to prove yourself by hard work and dedication beyond that of the normal employee. It is unfortunate, but it is the way the work force will judge you. However, this is a test of endurance, skill, and determination. This is a test you can pass - just do not give up until you accomplish your goal. As for the rejections, that is a price you may have to pay due to your past, but not something you cannot get beyond. In turn, it will make you a stronger person and will help re-build your self esteem. Good Luck,
Jeff Geile

by jnasser

I say go for it and get your certs it doesn't hurt to try. As for hiring a person with a criminal background I would need more information depending if it was an accident or was that crime a DUI and the accident caused a death, or you just decided on killing a person because it was Monday it would all depend on the circumstances.

by serverjockey

As an employer, I can say that 90% of most larger companies won't even talk to you and all contract positions require a background check so don't even bother. It's really frustrating to get ahold of someone you think is going to be a good fit so you spend a lot of time interviewing, etc and then come to find out the guy's got a record and you can't place him anywhere, anyway! Now some of the smaller companies might not care but you never know until you try!

by husp1

Look the real answer is staring you in the face. As you can see there are a few good eggs. a few preachers(with no intent), and a few jerks. So perhaps you should base your decision more on geographics, Will I receive a better cert at this school or that one?

by maverick73

The real question to me is would you even get past an HR review ? Your resume might not even reach the hands of the hiring manager, so whatever we say may be moot.

Second question: Would you get hired anywhere ? Regardless of it being I.T. or Accounting. Again it comes back to the H.R. question.

Personally, I'd need to know the details of the crime (if I'm even allowed to ask). How long ago ? Circumstances ? etc.... NT4 is a good base to start with. At least you won't be a Win2x newbie.

Good luck

by naiditch

Homicide sounds like an anger management issue unless it was done for either monetary or social profit ("with the victim out of the way, my life is now better"). So, I would be interested as your prospective employer in knowing whether you have gone through anger management, and whether it did any good (post prison crimes).

There would be extreme exposure for liability by hiring a known felon who was tried, convicted and served serious time for murder, should one day you went "Postal" so to speak.

by rgriego2

My advice as an ex-con my self is to go ahead and get your certs, knowledg is power. On the flip side of this issue, you are better off using your knowledge to do your own thing. Most companies these days do extensive criminal background checks and in doing so base their decisions, in part so to speak, on these checks. I personally think that the minute they find anything they disregaurd your app or resume. I could be wrong but I don't think so. I still think that you are better off on your own. My record stems from my youth, over 25 years ago but it still haunts me. I am in business for myself using the knowledge that I have attained through the years, A+, MCSE, CISCO etc...
Go For Your Own, you will be MUCH better off.
R. G.

by rgriego2

My advice as an ex-con my self is to go ahead and get your certs, knowledg is power. On the flip side of this issue, you are better off using your knowledge to do your own thing. Most companies these days do extensive criminal background checks and in doing so base their decisions, in part so to speak, on these checks. I personally think that the minute they find anything they disregaurd your app or resume. I could be wrong but I don't think so. I still think that you are better off on your own. My record stems from my youth, over 25 years ago but it still haunts me. I am in business for myself using the knowledge that I have attained through the years, A+, MCSE, CISCO etc...
Go For Your Own, you will be MUCH better off.
R. G.

by lfncomputer

As an ex-felon myself, and because my charge is differenft from yours, I would not be able to get some positions because of the bonding issue, and found that I have to pursue employment as a self-employed person, where I don't neccessarily have to discuss my past history. I am continuing to get various certifications as well. I would go on my own, if I found that in the course of looking for work that your past becomes a major issue. Anyway, I am cheering for you!

by gsquared

First, as a note, I don't think right now is a great time to try to get into the IT field as a profession. There is a bit of an oversupply of IT personnel in the job market right now. Of course, I'm in Houston, you're in Alaska; the situation might be different in your market.

If you are in a competitive market, I think that most potential employers will go one of two ways:

(a) They will take an equally trained/skilled person who has a clean record because IT personnel have to be "safe".

(b) They will take you on out of a sense of charity or a "give him a chance" attitude. You're more likely to find that in a small business with a charitable owner.

Personally, if I were hiring right now, I'd give you an interview and a standard battery of personality and skill tests, the same as I would give anyone else. In your case, I'd look into the history of the crime, the trial, the record in prison, and a bunch of possibly rather personal questions about your present life.

If, for example, you plead guilty and served your time cleanly, that would be a positive mark in my book. If, on the other hand, you caused problems at trial (any contempt type charges), had to be sent to solitary repeatedly while serving, had a record of trouble with guards/personnel, or anything like that, that would be a negative mark. Simply pleading not guilty and having an orderly trial and a "normal" prison experience would be neither positive nor negative in my book.

I'd want to know if you spend a lot of your current time in the company of other ex-inmates. Yes, friendships can be born in prison, as anyplace else, but also there is strong evidence that ex-cons often group up in order to engage in further criminal activity. I wouldn't assume the worst, but I'd want to know.

I'd want to know about the murder; was it a crime of passion that's not likely to happen again (e.g.: you found someone in bed with your wife and went berserk) or was premeditated first degree, or aggravated first degree (e.g.: your took money to kill someone). That would also matter. Yes, someone who went berserk once could possibly do so again, in which case I'd want to know what you've done to prevent that. If it were a deliberate murder for personal gain, I'd definitely not hire.

I think what this boils down to is (a) if you're competing against others for the same job, assume you need to be better trained and more skilled, and (b) be prepared for any potential employer to ask a LOT of questions and to spend a lot of time answering them or providing sources (name of judge, etc.) who can supply the needed data.

If someone does start asking a lot of questions, assume that means they are considering you for the job and that they just want to make sure that the workplace will be safe with you in it. That would be a good sign.

by vaughanm

I do not see that your criminal history should be a problem with getting employment with networking. Your conviction is not for dishonesty. I also have a criminal conviction and I do not see that it is an issue with gaining employment, if the employer has an issue with your past then it is their problem and loss. From what you have said, I see that you are open, honest and willing. With the qualifications you have and the experience you should have no problem with getting that dream job.
Go for it, You can do it.

by drmemory

I believe that you may find some permanent employment opportunities open to you, but the market will be made smaller by security policy considerations. Anyone requiring a criminal background check will likely exclude all felony convictions. It is just not practical to review this on a case-by-case basis.
Contract work would still be possible and made more available by additional certifications. Before you move on to independence, consider the replacement value of your current benefits package and any possible career path at your current employer against the time and cost of marketing yourself and the amount of revenue you can realistically generate.
Manage your employment like a business and you will not only gain personally, but also professionally as you apply the same principles that new opportunities will/should use.

by vconnell

If you have the ability and have proven yourself then you have every right to pursue a career in the IT field!! It should be a matter of how well you do the job not social prejudice. Whatever happened to belief in rehabilitation?? If our prison system is not doing its'job then let's get to the bottom of where the real problem lies. I hope and pray you soar like an eagle in your knowledge of computers!

by pedwards17

I was once in restaurant management, and one restaurant I managed worked with a local detention center's work release program. Most of the "back of the house" workers I had (dishwashers, cooks, etc) were from the program. My attitude was always to help them as much as I could as long as they were intent on improving their lives. I was never sorry, and, frankly, I wound up with some very loyal employees as a result.

by gihly

I was released from the Washington State Correction Center in 1969. I learned to code COBOL while there and was on training release for six months prior to my actual release. Everyone I worked with new my circumstances.
I'm sure there was some anxiety when I was hired as a Progrmmer Trainee by the Dept of Institutions. This soon disappeared as I proved my worth.
I left the State in the early eighies. I was an Assistant Manager of Information Systems. I contracted for many years and then after 9/11 that was not a good place to be for "Mainframers".
I returned to the state and was hired by a gentleman that I had hired.
I am now an Information Technology Application Specialist 5.
What you get out of this business is directly relational to how much you put in with a pinch of patience.
Gary

by is girl

The truth is that only very large companies routinely do Criminal Background Checks as part of their hiring process. It's just too expensive for smaller, privately held companies to justify.

If you are selective about the companies you consider working for, it may never come up as part of the interview process.

The only potential flag for a smaller company is the question on employment apps regarding felony convictions. I would recommend that you avoid filling out the app and attach a resume instead to avoid having to lie about it.

However, if the HR Dept. insists you fill out the app, you are faced with a choice -- lie and say you've never been convicted of a felony (and run the risk of being found out and terminated for lying later), or tell the truth and hope you are given the chance to explain.

I am sorry to say that if given the choice between a convicted felon and someone with a clean criminal background, most companies are not going to hire someone with a criminal background.

So...your options are more limited than if you were never convicted, but it is not impossible to find employement in IT with a criminal background.

by julioairizar

My friend, I don't know what will happen there, where you are, but if you can not be hire by anyone, you can try another place or state or even another country, where nobody knows nothing about you. For example, in my country: Cuba, the most important thing is what you are capable to do in the present moment, talking about criminal records. If you already pay for your past acts, you will never have a problem to get a job, at least you are not able to do it. At the end it's all depend on you.

by j.perera

The past does not equal the future. You have the attitude to do some thing with your future by the sounds of things in the IT Industry. You should go for it no matter what, that's the only way you're going to find out. Do not listen to negative persons who may look at it from your past and give a negative view. If you have the hart and attitude you are 80% already there, to get what you want just be "consistent" in your efforts in achieving your goal/s and believe in yourself - it doesn't matter what other think, it what you thing that matters. Some time it best not to ask what other think - If you listen to the negative attitudes of other you?re only going to fall victim and loose focus.
I have a crazy history myself and I own my own IT business in software development and provide Network Solution in Windows NT environment to corporate client.

You need some tools to help you - I strongly suggest that you listen to Personnel Power CD's from Anthony Robbins to help you along the way - you will not regret it.... These CD?s will condition your mind and pave the way to achieving you final result and more.

You must condition you mind to not think about your past ? easily said then done... may be - but if you can train your mind to do this you will see big progress and results.

The All the Best

Jehan

by mpatten

Sidvail,

If your only mistake in the past is what was mentioned, your record after your time is proof that you are doing well. You can collect references from your current employer and fellow employees. With that in hand and any further education and certifications, you should be well on your way for making a good career move for the future. Go for it.

by puneetteja

I like to have people on my team who are going
upwards in their careers.

I would see that the delta change in your life
has been positive so you would be on my
shortlist.

BTW: Does one really check a candidate for
criminal record?? In my 7 years in IT
management, I haven't!!!

by jbtayl

Nobody is perfect and you can't be guaranteed that somebody is what they say they are. But, statistics show significantly lower repeat offenses by ex-cons that have gone through programs run by Prison Fellowship vs. the general prison population.

I think bigotry does play into a refusal to consider this.

by steve

On most applications it askes if you have been convicted of a felony. Answering this honestly may take you out of the running for some. But will impress the right people in the right job for you.
I have always belived in second chances and I know that there are alot like me. The fact that you have come out with the attitude that you will make a good honest life for yourself and have made the effort to gain knowledge and persue a carrer will help in your search.
I wish you good luck and never give up.

by itisforme

Never divulge negative aspects about yourself. Always make the other person do the work to find any faults and make them work harder to find your faults then they make you put forth your positive aspects. With every fault that they find about you, hold their feet to the fire and make them justify everything in the same manor that they expect from you. Nobody deserves more for themselves then they expect from others dot period.

No matter what anybody states here most people would shit their pants if they knew that they were interviewing or working with a killer. They would be far more afraid of upsetting you then anything else. If they make it easy for you then reciprocate and if they make it hard, dido. No matter what when you go on an interview the main topic is your ability to do the job and your mission is to stay on topic and you don?t do that by divulging your negatives. If someone focuses on your negatives then you have one foot out the door and the foot on a Banana peel. If they find out then use fear to your advantage. Instead of letting then have a free ride on your negatives and grind you into the ground. Let them fear about upsetting you. Turn your negatives around and make them justify their concerns about them. When you get caught doing a crime you pay the fine and do the time. You have done that. All further punishment is completely unjustified. Use killing to your advantage. You did it at least once and if you can?t have a life then let them think that they may loose theirs.

by the daleks

Sidvail,

It sounds like you have been rehabilitated, have paid your debt to society and are ready to move on with your life in a serious and productive manner. Bravo, and best of luck to you!

Meanwhile, America's so-called "President" is a drunk-driving, coke-snorting, army-deserting crook who has killed far more people than you ever did, and he is completely unrepentant.

OK, so America did choose to hire the other guy four years ago, but what the heck -- our "President" is the toast of multi-millionaires across the nation!

by pasgroup

I think sidvail has done what I would expect a prospective employee to do. Be honest and make me aware of his conviction.

The way I see it is if an employee covered up this or other important information and it came out later you would not give them the trust they may otherwise have enjoyed.

I firmly believe in taking someone on their merit and if someone had the honesty (guts) to make me aware of this type of past they just went up a few notches on my employability scale.

I am sure there will be some readers who are totally opposed to this view, just think about it for a minute.

This guy has just been more open and honest than the average employee is so why not give him a chance to prove himself to you.

I have sat across the table during interviews and had people openly lie about things that would obviously come out in any basic background check hoping they were convincing enough that we would not check...WRONG. Most employers make at least a basic check before employing someone.

Who would you employ?
The person that was totally honest or someone who may have bent the truth even a little bit to impress you.

Of course it would also depend on the nature of the work involved and the type of problem they may have had in the past, either way I would also be honest and make them aware of the exact reason I could not employ them or if they were successful I may suggest some supervision or audit process initially. This would provide both the employee and I a safety net if the problem was ever used against the employee by other staff members.

I have had it happen and having this information at hand allowed be to give my full backing to the person to resolve the situation.

Thank you Sid for your open and honest approach.

Pat - Pasgroup